Which is better: Mormonism or Islam?

[MelanieAnne]

That’s not even close. Mormons believe in the resurrection and try to live by Christian values. Mormonism is better than Islam. I don’t believe modern Mormons would ever be inclined to impose a Mormon state.

They may believe in the resurrection, but they don’t believe in the same God. They may recognize a Holy Spirit, but it is not the same Holy Spirit as that of Christians. (How do we know that? Because the Holy Spirit gives only one message, not 2.)

Mormons may have good personal values but that doesn’t change the nature of their religion. By any theological measurement, they are not Christian. This is just a fact, not an insult. It’s a matter of doctrine.

And I’m not so sure about the idea that they have no plans to impose a Mormon state. Maybe they don’t have plans to do that next week, but their idea of earthly perfection is to have everyone be Mormon and to have so many Mormon temples that the spire of the next one is visible from the one you’re looking from. Sounds like world wide domination to me, it’s just dressed up in prettier language.

 

[catharina]

They may believe in the resurrection, but they don’t believe in the same God. They may recognize a Holy Spirit, but it is not the same Holy Spirit as that of Christians. (How do we know that? Because the Holy Spirit gives only one message, not 2.)

Mormons may have good personal values but that doesn’t change the nature of their religion. By any theological measurement, they are not Christian. This is just a fact, not an insult. It’s a matter of doctrine.

And I’m not so sure about the idea that they have no plans to impose a Mormon state. Maybe they don’t have plans to do that next week, but their idea of earthly perfection is to have everyone be Mormon and to have so many Mormon temples that the spire of the next one is visible from the one you’re looking from. Sounds like world wide domination to me, it’s just dressed up in prettier language.

Thanks for your additions, MA.

In addition to the Mormons’ view that the Holy Spirit’s role is negligible, their ‘understanding’ of Christ and His role is also incomplete. Is He the Son of God or did He used to be the devil’s brother? Ask an average Mormon: He/she might say ‘Yes’ to both. From Christians, a big “NO” is the only answer to such a notion (the devil’s brother).

From the foundation of their gathering, Mormons have held that the Church of Christ had failed; so His words are also seen as ‘failed’ in that He promised that it would never fail.

Belief in CJCLDS requires acceptance of a pyramid of contradictions of Scripture.

 

[BartBurk]

They may believe in the resurrection, but they don’t believe in the same God. They may recognize a Holy Spirit, but it is not the same Holy Spirit as that of Christians. (How do we know that? Because the Holy Spirit gives only one message, not 2.)

Mormons may have good personal values but that doesn’t change the nature of their religion. By any theological measurement, they are not Christian. This is just a fact, not an insult. It’s a matter of doctrine.

And I’m not so sure about the idea that they have no plans to impose a Mormon state. Maybe they don’t have plans to do that next week, but their idea of earthly perfection is to have everyone be Mormon and to have so many Mormon temples that the spire of the next one is visible from the one you’re looking from. Sounds like world wide domination to me, it’s just dressed up in prettier language.

The question at hand is which is better, Mormonism or Islam. On all kinds of levels, Mormonism is closer to orthodox Christianity than Islam. Does Islam practice baptism? Does Islam believe Christ atoned for our sins? Does Islam believe that in some way Christ was the only Son of God? Does Islam believe in the resurrection? What is Islam’s teaching on the second coming of Christ? Does Islam believe non-Muslims can be saved as Mormons believe non-Mormons can be saved? And the salvation Mormons believe in for non-Christians is through the work of Christ. So this isn’t really even close.

 

[luvlife]

The question at hand is which is better, Mormonism or Islam. On all kinds of levels, Mormonism is closer to orthodox Christianity than Islam. Does Islam practice baptism? Does Islam believe Christ atoned for our sins? Does Islam believe that in some way Christ was the only Son of God? Does Islam believe in the resurrection? What is Islam’s teaching on the second coming of Christ? Does Islam believe non-Muslims can be saved as Mormons believe non-Mormons can be saved? And the salvation Mormons believe in for non-Christians is through the work of Christ. So this isn’t really even close.

Agree.

 

[catholiconce]

Thanks for your additions, MA.

In addition to the Mormons’ view that the Holy Spirit’s role is negligible, their ‘understanding’ of Christ and His role is also incomplete. Is He the Son of God or did He used to be the devil’s brother? Ask an average Mormon: He/she might say ‘Yes’ to both. From Christians, a big “NO” is the only answer to such a notion (the devil’s brother).

From the foundation of their gathering, Mormons have held that the Church of Christ had failed; so His words are also seen as ‘failed’ in that He promised that it would never fail.

Belief in CJCLDS requires acceptance of a pyramid of contradictions of Scripture.

Yes you are right I had heard the Bit about the belief that The Devil was Jesus’s Brother so I ask one of the young Elders for myself and they do believe exactly that.

 

[gam197]

I did not vote but I probably would side with Islam. Islam allows for up to four wives which is difficult enough for me to understand while there is no limit to the number of wives that a Mormon man can have. He can have seventy.

Many will say this an old tradition that has been rejected by the main Mormon Church but the Mormon faith was founded on it. Both are twisted.

 

[Jerusha]

Mormonism is racist and has a strongly racist past.
The “scriptures” of Mormonism are racist and politically incorrect for today’s ethics.
Supplemental exegesis has not developed a systematic system for re-interpreting their “scriptures” into something that fits bettter into modern times. (Although this may happen with time)
Those “scriptures” describe a history that (for the most part) did not happen.
Mormon scriptures are anti-Jewish.

Islam is not racist and never has been racist.
Muslims have generally been successful in re-interpreting their “politically incorrect” scriptures into something that fits better into the ethics of modern times.
The Koran does not have a problem with historicity.
Muslims had an appreciation of Jewish people as “people of the Book” in Moorish Spain, and lived peacably with them during that time period. Muslim anti-Jewish sentiment is recent, and largely political in origin.

I won’t change my opinion that they are equally wrong.

 

[MelanieAnne]

The question at hand is which is better, Mormonism or Islam. On all kinds of levels, Mormonism is closer to orthodox Christianity than Islam. Does Islam practice baptism? Does Islam believe Christ atoned for our sins? Does Islam believe that in some way Christ was the only Son of God? Does Islam believe in the resurrection? What is Islam’s teaching on the second coming of Christ? Does Islam believe non-Muslims can be saved as Mormons believe non-Mormons can be saved? And the salvation Mormons believe in for non-Christians is through the work of Christ. So this isn’t really even close.

It would appear you’re arguing with me BartBurk. I’m not sure, but that’s how it comes across to me. But I’m not arguing with you, just so you know.

 

[RC_Matt]

The question at hand is which is better, Mormonism or Islam. On all kinds of levels, Mormonism is closer to orthodox Christianity than Islam. Does Islam practice baptism? Does Islam believe Christ atoned for our sins? Does Islam believe that in some way Christ was the only Son of God? Does Islam believe in the resurrection? What is Islam’s teaching on the second coming of Christ? Does Islam believe non-Muslims can be saved as Mormons believe non-Mormons can be saved? And the salvation Mormons believe in for non-Christians is through the work of Christ. So this isn’t really even close.

It’s really kind of a moot point. Both of them are non-Christian religions that came from private revelations of self-proclaimed prophets. Moslems revere Jesus, but only as a prophet. Mormons believe him to be the literal son of god, a brother of satin and distinct corporeal entity from god (“heavenly father” - who is also believed to be a distinct corporeal being). Mormons do not pray to Jesus, only to heavenly father, and they reject the Trinity. Heavenly father physically lives on a planet near the star Kolob. Islam is an Abrahamic faith; they believe in the one eternal and universal God, as do Christians, Jews and Bahai. Mormons believe there are countless gods in the universe and that men can become gods themselves by being good Mormons (Doctrine of Eternal Progression). For example, the god of earth, heavenly father, was once a mortal man on another planet who progressed to godhood through his own merit. Once a man becomes a god, he and his wives begat spirit children and that is how his planet is populated.

Mormons do practice baptism, but I am unaware of any Christian faith that accepts the Mormon baptism as valid. I am similarly unaware of any Christian community that considers Mormonsim to be a Christian faith. It’s in its own totally distinct category, like Buddhism or Hinduism. Although both Islam and Mormonism are far removed from any form of Christianity, in my opinion, Islam would be theologically closer (as would Judaism) given the similar understandings of the nature of God.

 

[Gabriel_of_12]

To me they are both the same, they both claim to have started from a revelation from an angel, after the apostles warned us of this, that not to accept any other gospel other than the one Jesus and they the apostles gave the Catholic church. Even if an angel from heaven should come and proclaim a different gospel other than Jesus, The Church is not to accept these new gospels.

The other reason I think they are the same, is because Islam has a virtue to Lie according to their Qu’ran, and Mormonism is founded on a Lie from their doctrine of some non existant apostacy that they are unable to prove yet. But still they state their belief on a Lie. So Islam and Mormonism have Lying as their foundation of existance. Maybe they are not man made religions after all, and do come from the spirit world, the father of lies himself.

Only Truth can withstand the test of time unchanging

 

[catharina]

To me they are both the same, they both claim to have started from a revelation from an angel, after the apostles warned us of this, that not to accept any other gospel other than the one Jesus and they the apostles gave the Catholic church. Even if an angel from heaven should come and proclaim a different gospel other than Jesus, The Church is not to accept these new gospels.

The other reason I think they are the same, is because Islam has a virtue to Lie according to their Qu’ran, and Mormonism is founded on a Lie from their doctrine of some non existant apostacy that they are unable to prove yet. But still they state their belief on a Lie. So Islam and Mormonism have Lying as their foundation of existance. Maybe they are not man made religions after all, and do come from the spirit world, the father of lies himself.

Only Truth can withstand the test of time unchanging

Islam was not born of heresy, of rejecting Christianity.

It is a faith that teaches and practices belief in ONE GOD ALONE.

LDS was formed with the rejection of the Church, rejection of living faith, claiming that the Church founded by Our Lord had failed, collapsed. Their claim is that Joseph Smith restored a failed Christianity with his “new” religion.

The Mormon belief in “God” sounds more like a re-hash of Greek mythology: many types of God, many limited, curious forms of God, not ONE GOD.

 

[BartBurk]

It’s really kind of a moot point. Both of them are non-Christian religions that came from private revelations of self-proclaimed prophets. Moslems revere Jesus, but only as a prophet. Mormons believe him to be the literal son of god, a brother of satin and distinct corporeal entity from god (“heavenly father” - who is also believed to be a distinct corporeal being). Mormons do not pray to Jesus, only to heavenly father, and they reject the Trinity. Heavenly father physically lives on a planet near the star Kolob. Islam is an Abrahamic faith; they believe in the one eternal and universal God, as do Christians, Jews and Bahai. Mormons believe there are countless gods in the universe and that men can become gods themselves by being good Mormons (Doctrine of Eternal Progression). For example, the god of earth, heavenly father, was once a mortal man on another planet who progressed to godhood through his own merit. Once a man becomes a god, he and his wives begat spirit children and that is how his planet is populated.

Mormons do practice baptism, but I am unaware of any Christian faith that accepts the Mormon baptism as valid. I am similarly unaware of any Christian community that considers Mormonsim to be a Christian faith. It’s in its own totally distinct category, like Buddhism or Hinduism. Although both Islam and Mormonism are far removed from any form of Christianity, in my opinion, Islam would be theologically closer (as would Judaism) given the similar understandings of the nature of God.

The Disciples of Christ and the Episcopalians accept Mormon baptism from what I understand. At one time the Episcopal Bishop of Salt Lake City was a convert from Mormonism. Her baptism was accepted as valid. Most Mormons in Utah who convert to the Episcopal Church are not required to undergo rebaptism.

Every week Mormons have what is akin to a Protestant form of the sacrament in which they reflect on the atonement of Jesus. It is considered a renewal of their baptism covenant which included forgiveness of sin.

The Mormon view of original sin is almost identical to the Eastern Orthodox view of original sin. Mormonism is almost indistinguishable from many other forms of Christianity except for their belief in the Godhead as three separate Gods instead of a trinitarian God. There are other denominations accepted as Christian which don’t require its members to believe in the Trinity – the Disciples of Christ are often either unitarian or modalist. I think we go way overboard when we try to equate Mormonism and Islam.

As for Mormon , many American denominations (Southern Baptist comes to mind) believed at one time that blacks were descended from Cain. That was an explanation given to me by some Baptist friends of mine even in the early 70s. And now the folks at BYU’s Maxwell Institute are teaching that most Native Americans descended from wandering Siberians instead of from cursed Lamanites. The Mormons have almost doomed the Lamanites to non-existence – they readilly admit they can’t identify any individual Native American tribes as Lamanite. It’s hard to be racist against a group of people that have disappeared.

I would say that Mormons at the very least have a baptism of desire in that they are trying to do what Christ asked us to do. They baptize with water in the name of the Father, Son and Holy Ghost. They misunderstand the idea of Father, Son and Holy Ghost so their baptism is invalid as far as we are concerned. Ultimately, comparing them to Islam does us little good although I can see parallels between Joseph Smith and Mohammed. The major difference is that Joseph didn’t reject the atonement and the resurrection, but made them central components in his theology.

 

[MelanieAnne]

The Disciples of Christ and the Episcopalians accept Mormon baptism from what I understand. At one time the Episcopal Bishop of Salt Lake City was a convert from Mormonism. Her baptism was accepted as valid. Most Mormons in Utah who convert to the Episcopal Church are not required to undergo rebaptism.

That must be a recent development of the Episcopal Church (but then that wouldn’t be the first one ) They didn’t used to accept Mormon Baptism. I had a friend in college who converted from Mormon to Episcopalian. They gave her a conditional baptism. If they accept Mormon Baptisms now, that makes me believe the Episcopalians are even further off track than I thought before.

 

[porthos11]

Perhaps I should post a parallel post:

Which is better to drink: carbolic acid or sodium cyanide?

 

[BartBurk]

That must be a recent development of the Episcopal Church (but then that wouldn’t be the first one ) They didn’t used to accept Mormon Baptism. I had a friend in college who converted from Mormon to Episcopalian. They gave her a conditional baptism. If they accept Mormon Baptisms now, that makes me believe the Episcopalians are even further off track than I thought before.

It may be a decision which is up to their local Bishop. The Bishops in Utah generally have not required rebaptism. But here is the biography of the Episcopal Bishop of Utah:

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Carolyn_Tanner_Irish

 

[AgnosTheist]

What makes Muslims so scary?

what scares me are the literalist and extremist muslims. because both promotes political islam, and the later resorts to whatever means necessary to push this agenda.

I hung out with them yesterday. They were nice people. A great many of the ones I saw were born here…regular English speaking White people. Nobody was talking about radical politics or committing crimes. Everyone was just enjoying themselves.

maybe because they didnt want to scare a potential convert.

 

[pismopal]

Both religions are false and have a certain amount of supremism is their dogma. Mormons are loyal Americans whose culture fits fine with the framework of the Constitution of this country. If Mormons want to stick to themselves…thats fine…I enjoy red wine so that might be awkward anyway.
Islam is a theocracy which does not fit within the culture or politics of western civilization. Freedom is not valued by the ordinary muslim as evidenced by the fact that those who live in Islamic countries don’t have any.
Violence has never been promoted by Mormons…not to say that they can’t defend themselves because they can and have. Islam is violent by nature and has been predatory since it’s inception. Today muslims are at violent odds with their neighbors worldwide. Christians-Jews-Budhists-Hindus and others are currently fighting for survival against muslims who are exhorted to violence by many of their leaders and financed by petro wealth which pours in from all over the world. Islam demands conversion to it’s system or relegation to dhimmi status or death.
Islam is evil…all muslims are not evil or violent but too many are. Islam is on the hunt…only the blind or stupid don’t know it. The left knows it but doesn’t care but that is another subject.
Which is worse…Mormonism or Islam? One is like death by being boiled in oil and the other like dying peacefully in your sleep.

 

[pismopal]

Mormonism is racist and has a strongly racist past.
The “scriptures” of Mormonism are racist and politically incorrect for today’s ethics.
Supplemental exegesis has not developed a systematic system for re-interpreting their “scriptures” into something that fits bettter into modern times. (Although this may happen with time)
Those “scriptures” describe a history that (for the most part) did not happen.
Mormon scriptures are anti-Jewish.

Islam is not racist and never has been racist.
Muslims have generally been successful in re-interpreting their “politically incorrect” scriptures into something that fits better into the ethics of modern times.
The Koran does not have a problem with historicity.
Muslims had an appreciation of Jewish people as “people of the Book” in Moorish Spain, and lived peacably with them during that time period. Muslim anti-Jewish sentiment is recent, and largely political in origin.

I won’t change my opinion that they are equally wrong.

What Mormon practice is overtly racist?
“Muslims have been successful in re-interpreting their " politically incorrect” scriptures into something that fits better into the ethics of modern times." Please give an example of that.
Please show me how Muslims have an “appreciation of the Jewish people.” Jews do not call themselves the “People of the book” and it is disrespectful for others to do so. Islamic anti-Jewish sentiment is woven within the Koran…how recent is that?
“Islam is not racist”…I think the blacks in Sudan would tell you that it is … ask those who are being persecuted. Slaves are also part of Islamic culture…how many slaves do Mormons have?
If Mormon scripture is anti Jewish how does it manifest itself today? I am not Mormon and wouldn’t dream of it but to equate these 2 faiths is just mind boggling to me.

 

[Gabriel_of_12]

Islam was not born of heresy, of rejecting Christianity.

It is a faith that teaches and practices belief in ONE GOD ALONE.

LDS was formed with the rejection of the Church, rejection of living faith, claiming that the Church founded by Our Lord had failed, collapsed. Their claim is that Joseph Smith restored a failed Christianity with his “new” religion.

The Mormon belief in “God” sounds more like a re-hash of Greek mythology: many types of God, many limited, curious forms of God, not ONE GOD.

I wont disagree with you here, what I am of the opinion of is that they both have Lying as their doctrinal beliefs, which since the beginning of time, Lying has been a mortal sin.

Islam claims to be a true faith, from the where the Jews failed and the Christian apostles failed, just like mormons. Islam has some similar characteristic beliefs as Christians, and Jews. Moses, Abraham, Jesus, Mary, etc.

Islam and mormonism both claim to have seen an angel that has introduced a new or different gospel other that the one Jesus gave us, and his apostles handed down to the Catholic church.

Peace be with you

 

[PaulDupre]

There are LDS communities outside of Utah that are just as closed-minded and intolerant as the heart of rural Utah.

Even intolerant of their own. My LDS experience (mostly in Massachusetts) was that there was a definite caste system in the ward and stake. The Utah Mormons who had moved there for career reasons thought themselves to be far superior to those of us whose ancestors did not push handcarts across the prairies. They formed a very insular group and jealously dominated all of the leadership positions in the ward and the stake.

One of their sons had known, dated and loved my sister in high school and they planned to marry (that’s why she converted). His mother forbade him to marry my sister, and actually chose a girl from a proper Utah family for him to marry, which he did. They are now divorced, but at least he didn’t lower himself to marry a convert!

This cast system was also evident in the So Cal wards I attended in the few years before I quit the Morg, but to a lesser extent - perhaps because nearly everyone in the So Cal wards was from Utah.

Paul