Which parts of the Gospels specifically have not been corrupted?

[paarsurrey]

there is nothing called **go on **jihad to different lands to conquer them and humiliate their people unless they either convert or die.

Hi

Kindly quote just one verse from Quran which says " Go on to different lands to conquer them and humiliae their people unless they either convert or die".

For the context of the verse please mention five connected preceding verses and five following; in all eleven verses to make you standpoint.

I know you have got none.

I love Jesus and Mary as I do love Buddha and Krishna

Thanks

 

[Jay53]

I didn’t see an answer to this part of my post. It was in response to a claim that the apostles loved Jesus so much that they deified him.

Anyhow, then what is the significance of Muslims believing in Blessed Mother, believing in Jesus’ Virgin birth (which incidentally Muhammad does not have)? Blessed Mother obviously knows her Son is the Son of God. Do Muslims think she was and is lying about this? What is the Muslim opinion of her apparitions at Fatima? (Sorry, do I have to start another thread to ask this? )

 

[inJESUS]

Hi

Kindly quote just one verse from Quran which says " Go on to different lands to conquer them and humiliae their people unless they either convert or die".

For the context of the verse please mention five connected preceding verses and five following; in all eleven verses to make you standpoint.

I know you have got none.

I love Jesus and Mary as I do love Buddha and Krishna

Thanks

nevermind since Allah sent Ghulam Ahmad to correct the apostacy of Muhammad’s appointed successors.

 

[Jay53]

Maybe you missed the day in Sunday School when God told the Children of Israel not to leave even the cattle alive.

Apparently I did. Can you please give me the passage that applies to killing all unbelievers and that addresses the subjugation tax. I can’t find it. (Of course I’m only looking on the internet - I only have a New Testament at home with me. ) Thank you.

 

[paarsurrey]

Originally Posted by Jay53:
Do they believe in any of the approved apparitions of Blessed Mother (i.e. Fatima) and if so, how are they explained? - wouldn’t God have to have allowed this to happen? I can’t imagine that they believe Blessed Mother can appear without God’s permission?

I didn’t see an answer to this part of my post. It was in response to a claim that the apostles loved Jesus so much that they deified him.

Hi

I did send a post on this vide post # 18, perhaps you missed it.

I repeat it here:

I don’t think there are any approved authentic apparitions of Jesus or Mary seen by any Catholic. If you mean from “approved” Vatican approval; that does not add any credence to the issue.

I don’t think, the Vatican clergy have themselves seen any apparitions. Those who see don’t mention a clear picture of Jesus or Mary; they see something foggy, they cannot describe clear physical features of Jesus or Mary. They don’t agree on the features.

I love Jesus and Mary as I do love Buddha and Krishna

Thanks

 

[Jay53]

Hi

I did send a post on this vide post # 18, perhaps you missed it.

I repeat it here:

Are you saying that Muslims do not believe in the apparitions of Blessed Mother at Fatima? If not, why not?

 

[paarsurrey]

on apparitions of Jesus and Mary.

Hi

Sometimes ago I sent a post in comment to the signatures of Eucharisted.

He preferred not to reply in response; I repeat it here:

Catholics see apparitions of Jesus and Maryrotestants and JWs don’t see them;Why?
By paarsurrey

A Question For Non-Believers
forums.catholic-questions.org/showthread.php?p=4445149#post4445149

Originally Posted by Eucharisted:
I, for example, was visited by the Lord (you can read more on that by clicking the link in my signature). I accepted the reality of what happened and joined the Church. If I had not accepted what truly took place, than I would be insane, for only an insane man denies what is real.

“The story of my conversion”

Hi

I clicked “The story of my conversion” in your signatures.

Please don’t mind. It was when you were only ten years old but your experience was such that you have remembered it and have presented it to the public. May be you still remember the details.
You mean to say you met an apparition of Jesus, if I am right.

Then you met another man who did not tell you his name.
You met a woman; you have not mentioned her name. I add and guess that it was Mary, mother of Jesus.

Please don’t mind to answer some simple questions:

1. Jesus told you to join his church. So why didn’t you join the JWs church or Kingdom Hall or a Mormon Church? It must be a Catholic Church not a Protestant Church; but how did you recognize it as Jesus’ Church. If Jesus did not mention the name of the Church; then perhaps he meant to join a Church after researching properly. Did you make such a research? Or you preferred to join your parent’s church rather blindly.

1. I think there were no churches, in Jesus’ time, there were only synagogues in Judea. Jesus himself never went to a Church. When Jesus went to India after the event of Crucifixion; he must have seen Hindu temples there or Pagodas of Buddhists.

1. You don’t remember other person’s name. Guess who could that be? A man of the past or present or future.

1. I think you should have seen Jesus and Mary and the third person very closely and not a foggy apparition as seen by Paul. Paul, in my opinion n never mentioned features of Jesus; do you remember Jesus’ and Mary features as to the color of their eyes, hair and skin. If they were short persons individually or tall persons; approximately their height.

I did never have any such experience myself. Kindly share your experience with others.

I love Jesus and Mary as I do love Buddha and Krishna.

Thanks

 

[inJESUS]

As far as i know, many Muslims saw the Virgin Mary in Zeitun, egypt.

 

[Jay53]

Hi

Sometimes ago I sent a post in comment to the signatures of Eucharisted.

He preferred not to reply in response; I repeat it here:

Is this in response to my last post? If so, I don’t get it. What does it have to do with Our Lady of Fatima? If it’s not, I apologize and will wait for another response. Thank you.

 

[Jay53]

Bump

Still waiting …

 

[Sister_Amy]

So your position is that God *still *commands his followers to commit genocide? Can you cite a recent example?

No, that is not my position at all. Rather, God, at least according to your Bible (which you may or may not believe to be entirely inspired and preserved), commanded genocide. (past tense)

So God originally called for genocide, changed His mind when revealing the Qur’an to Mohammed… yet you say the Gospels that are corrupt because God didn’t command the disciples to commit genocide? How does that work, exactly?

When did God change His mind? Did he decide to spare the Amalekites or something?

I only said that the Qur’an doesn’t command genocide. Just to point out that fact, lest you dare to claim otherwise.

And that whole discussion has absolutely nothing whatsoever to do with the Gospels. Just people get touchy at the fact that fighting is allowed, at times even commanded, in Islam. They think it means that the God of Islam (which is the only God in existence) is different from the God of Christianity. But the God of Christianity commanded fighting too–absolute distruction of an entire tribe.

It’s merely an interesting point. It really doesn’t have much to do with the Gospels.

 

[Sister_Amy]

Oh, you can add some more … . Like where Jesus said about divorce, adultery, forgiveness, love thy neighbor, love thy enemy, turning the other cheek, the end time, … .

Did Jesus say adultery was allowed or something? How was his teaching different than Muhammad’s? (I’m expecting you to bring up the story in John, go ahead, I’m ready if you need to go that route. But I’m curious if you have anything else…)

About forgiveness–did Jesus teach something that Muhammad didn’t?

About loving one’s neighbor–are you not aware of what Muhammad taught regarding neighbors?

Just to start with…

 

[Sister_Amy]

I didn’t see an answer to this part of my post. It was in response to a claim that the apostles loved Jesus so much that they deified him.

I have never heard any authentic teaching in Islam about “apparitions” of anyone anywhere. Have you?

 

[Sister_Amy]

From an islamic point of view, wars are prescriptive to all times , all people, all lands. In the OT, wars were prescriptive about limited nations, lands and time and the NT does not teach what Muhammad taught so when Muslims quote the OT to defend what Muhammad and his followers did by giving a total blind eye to Jesus’ words, they are committing a false analogy based on ignorance of scriptures.

 

[Sister_Amy]

Actually it is even more than that. They quote the OT because we said Jesus is God and therefore what happened in the OT were incidents commanded by Jesus. This is of course a bizarre rationale because Muslims do not believe that Jesus is God.

The fact that you claim Jesus is God has nothing to do with the discussion in which I was engaged. Note that it was the other poster, not myself, who claimed that Jesus commanded the destruction of the Amalekites (in the instance I gave.)

My point is pretty much that God is the same, in OT and Qur’an, and that there aren’t striking differences in the message, either.

 

[Sister_Amy]

Apparently I did. Can you please give me the passage that applies to killing all unbelievers and that addresses the subjugation tax. I can’t find it. (Of course I’m only looking on the internet - I only have a New Testament at home with me. ) Thank you.

Killing all unbelievers? Why should there be something like that, when even Muslims are allowed to make peace with unbelievers? Hmmm.

But personally I would much prefer a “subjugation” (using your word) tax than complete and utter destruction. Wouldn’t you?

Indeed Islam is a mercy.

 

[wanner47]

No, that is not my position at all. Rather, God, at least according to your Bible (which you may or may not believe to be entirely inspired and preserved), commanded genocide. (past tense)

I do believe the Bible (all of it, including the Deuterocanonicals) is the inspired and inerrant Word of God.

When did God change His mind? Did he decide to spare the Amalekites or something?

He hasn’t commanded genocide lately, has he? Obviously it’s no longer a common practice with Him.

I only said that the Qur’an doesn’t command genocide. Just to point out that fact, lest you dare to claim otherwise.

I don’t claim otherwise (although I recognize that some radical Muslim sects interpret the Qur’an in that fashion).

And that whole discussion has absolutely nothing whatsoever to do with the Gospels. Just people get touchy at the fact that fighting is allowed, at times even commanded, in Islam. They think it means that the God of Islam (which is the only God in existence) is different from the God of Christianity. But the God of Christianity commanded fighting too–absolute distruction of an entire tribe.

Right. In the OLD Testament. Not the New. Jesus came and fulfilled the law, and sacrificed himself so that no more may die. Praise Jesus!

It’s merely an interesting point. It really doesn’t have much to do with the Gospels.

But if the Gospels are corrupt, do you believe that God’s commands of genocide are still in force?

 

[paarsurrey]

My point is pretty much that God is the same, in OT and Qur’an, and that there aren’t striking differences in the message, either.

Hi

Sister Amy is right. The God is the same in OT and Quran; the name Allah and YHWH are almost the same in attributes.

Since Jesus did not dicate NTBible or authorized any of his disciples to write his life accounts in Judea, so to me it is an unauthorized writings and describe more of Paul’s thoughts than Jesus’ and Mary’s.

Paul’s **message **is neither God Allah YHWH’s message nor Jesus’ message, not all in my opinion.

I love Jesus and Mary

Thanks

 

[Sister_Amy]

I do believe the Bible (all of it, including the Deuterocanonicals) is the inspired and inerrant Word of God.

Okay.

He hasn’t commanded genocide lately, has he? Obviously it’s no longer a common practice with Him.

I will for the moment avoid the disastrous implications of this statement.

I don’t claim otherwise (although I recognize that some radical Muslim sects interpret the Qur’an in that fashion).

What “radical Muslim sect” interprets the Qur’an to command genocide, I wonder?

Right. In the OLD Testament. Not the New. Jesus came and fulfilled the law, and sacrificed himself so that no more may die. Praise Jesus!

I have no interest in debating your beliefs. If you would like to continue the discussion according to the original topic, then by all means let us return.

But if the Gospels are corrupt, do you believe that God’s commands of genocide are still in force?

I believe that God revealed the Qur’an to Muhammad. It’s a good book… maybe you should check it out.

 

[wanner47]

I will for the moment avoid the disastrous implications of this statement.

Pray tell, when has God lately commanded genocide, and can you prove it?

What “radical Muslim sect” interprets the Qur’an to command genocide, I wonder?

Perhaps you’ve heard of a man called Osama bin Laden?

I have no interest in debating your beliefs. If you would like to continue the discussion according to the original topic, then by all means let us return.

I understand it’s an uncomfortable topic for you.

I believe that God revealed the Qur’an to Muhammad. It’s a good book… maybe you should check it out.

Well, I do enjoy religious fiction! Perhaps I shall.