Who’s ‘godless’ now? Russia says it’s U.S

[Tomdstone]

Come on, folks, read your history: Krushchev said to the U.S. in the 50’s: We will bury you from within.

It looks like Russia has been burying the USA when it comes to moral values and support of the Church. Russia and its leadership have been very supportive of the Holy Russian Orthodox Church, while in the USA attempts are made by Obamacare to force Catholics to abandon or weaken their support of the sinfulness and evil of artificial contraception. Further the USA is on a crusade to legalise same sex marriage, which is contrary to the natural law of God.

 

[HappyCatholic01]

True. Most of 'em seem to be down in the Bible Belt now though. Wonder when the “love it or leave it” crowd is going to start packing?

I suspect you are the only person who hears people in the bible belt proclaim the glory of Russia. Believe me - they still can’t stand commies as much as they loathed them in the 50s. I don’t think even the most brash anti-American liberal plans on moving to Russia; Canada is their country of choice to flee to.

If you did here someone say that, they will probably leave as soon as the leftists located in major urban areas man up and leave for Canada as soon as Bush is reelected…

Oh wait, that happened ten years ago, and the big-mouth, all talk whiners never left.

 

[mikekle]

Id agree with the OP. Just look at American society! We are about as far from God as a nation can get!!

 

[kate_jackson]

I had been told…correct me if im wrong…that Putin was baptised as a catholic as a baby in secret so he had faithful parents. You can understand why it had to be that way at the time and I think he is gift from God at this time in politics to bring sanity into all this secular madnwss around the globe.

 

[Kaninchen]

I had been told…correct me if im wrong…that Putin was baptised as a catholic as a baby in secret so he had faithful parents. You can understand why it had to be that way at the time and I think he is gift from God at this time in politics to bring sanity into all this secular madnwss around the globe.

So, father and son joined the NKVD and KGB respectively as a Catholic infiltration of the USSR’s security services?

 

[Trader]

Could this be the fruits of the consecration of Russia by Bl John Paul 11?
Some interesting points were made indeed

I have not yet heard of Our Lady appearing at Fatima to say we can stop praying for the conversion of Russia. One of the great things about prayer is that it changes us from within, which is exactly what both Russia and the United States need now as much as ever…

 

[J_Peterson]

Given that homosexuality is not a biological condition there is no reason to recognize it anymore than any other psychological condition.

First off, what is the difference between a psychological condition and a physical? Isn’t the brain a part of the body? Second, what you are saying is very different then most psychologists.

One question for the pro-Russia folks. What is Putin doing to promote Christian values besides opposing gay rights (which isn’t a Christian value in my opinion)? What is he doing for the poor and vulnerable? Also, Jesus said that whatever you do to the least of your brothers you do to me. Wouldn’t you consider one of the most despised subsets of the population to be the least among the people. Will we not be judged by how we treat them?

I guess to me there’s a lot more to Christianity than homosexuality.

 

[Hoosier_Daddy]

I’m sure Gays do get beat up in America (and elsewhere), but the situation in Russia is not the same, i.e., the Russian government is promulgating disrimination (and I mean of basic human freedoms).

p.s. I’m all for not allowing them to adopt and/or marry but this is a question of basic human freedoms, and the inherent dignity of ALL human beings.

p.p.s Did you miss the part where I said that Catholics are being denied their constitutional religious rights?

How is the Russian government doing that?

 

[Burt_Macklin]

How is the Russian government doing that?

Well for one freedom of assembly isn’t respected and even legal, peaceful protests are often broken apart. Journalists are often required to practice self-censorship out of fears for their own safety. The judicial system is in need of serious reform and defendants often find themselves denied access to adequate counsel. There are numerous reported cases of collusion between judges and prosecution. The list goes on and on.

Don’t get me wrong, I love Russia, but let’s not pretend it is some sort of utopia. They have more than enough problems of their own to deal with.

 

[Hoosier_Daddy]

Well for one freedom of assembly isn’t respected and even legal, peaceful protests are often broken apart. Journalists are often required to practice self-censorship out of fears for their own safety. The judicial system is in need of serious reform and defendants often find themselves denied access to adequate counsel. There are numerous reported cases of collusion between judges and prosecution. The list goes on and on.

Don’t get me wrong, I love Russia, but let’s not pretend it is some sort of utopia. They have more than enough problems of their own to deal with.

What you are describing sounds like the USA to me. The poster accused the government of promulgating discrimination. I assume of homosexuals. I just want to know the official policy of the government.

One could certainly make the argument that in the USA if you are a conservative group or journalist the IRS has been sent out to shut you down. While that may not be the “policy” of the government it has happened. Our gov. is collecting phone call data, and using intimidation to silence it’s people. Hospitals are threatened to be shut down if they do not deny their faith. Before we point out Russia’s problem of collusion between judges and prosecution perhaps we should cut the gov a little slack.

I want to know where the government promulgates discrimination.

 

[Burt_Macklin]

Hoosier Daddy:

I want to know where the government promulgates discrimination.

The Catholic Church is in a precarious position in Russia, has been for thousands of years. The Catholic clergy is in Russia at the good grace of the ROC If the local Catholic church steps on the wrong toes - say by proselytizing orthodox faithful - the local priest can soon find himself in visa troubles. So a stronger ROC means discrimination against homosexuals, but it also means that minority religions like Catholicism may not find a place in modern Russia.

 

[frobert]

What you are describing sounds like the USA to me. The poster accused the government of promulgating discrimination. I assume of homosexuals. I just want to know the official policy of the government.

I want to know where the government promulgates discrimination.

I agree with you that it does sound like the US but I am critical of all modern governments, all appear to have promote policies, to a lessor or greater degree, that trample on human rights.

You won’t find official promulgates of discrimination, but when laws are written in ways that play to the prejudices of individuals. As an example, when such things as homosexuality and pedophilia are placed side by side in a law, some people will take that as a signal that homosexuals are fair game because they are pedophiles. Law makers–in most, if not all countries–know this yet persist in doing such things because it plays to the prejudices of the extremes among their constituents.

 

[Hoosier_Daddy]

I agree with you that it does sound like the US but I am critical of all modern governments, all appear to have promote policies, to a lessor or greater degree, that trample on human rights.

You won’t find official promulgates of discrimination, but when laws are written in ways that play to the prejudices of individuals. As an example, when such things as homosexuality and pedophilia are placed side by side in a law, some people will take that as a signal that homosexuals are fair game because they are pedophiles. Law makers–in most, if not all countries–know this yet persist in doing such things because it plays to the prejudices of the extremes among their constituents.

I think it is getting a little critical to dissect the way the law is written. It wants to keep sexual deviancy away from minors.

The US should have a law like that.

In Russia you have a long history of sex trade involving children. I am completely fine with the law having the two disorders side by side. It is a different problem that it is here.

Look one could argue that the US law against terrorist organizations is tailor made for attacking the Catholic faith. But the law is the correct law. It is just how it is implemented that matters.

What you are experiencing is the guilt of realizing that after years and years of knowing one truth (russia is the bad guy) that the US is not only not as good as russia but going down a worse path. Russia is warning us like the drug addict warns his little brother. Don’t follow us down the Godless road. But we may be to prideful and flag waving to see the wisdom of what they are saying. Especially if we only see them as our junkie older brother.

 

[frobert]

What you are experiencing is the guilt of realizing that after years and years of knowing one truth (russia is the bad guy) that the US is not only not as good as russia but going down a worse path. Russia is warning us like the drug addict warns his little brother. Don’t follow us down the Godless road. But we may be to prideful and flag waving to see the wisdom of what they are saying. Especially if we only see them as our junkie older brother.

I have zero guilt in believing that Russia was bad and the US was good because I never did. Neither was or is all bad or all good. From a historical perspective of anacyclosis we can discern that the US and modern governments in general are following a predicted trajectory. Will it be exactly like the past, of course not, however it will be similar. Stay tuned.

Warning: if you go the www.anacyclosis.org/ I linked to you are likely to find things that you don’t agree with or perhaps find some you do agree with or perhaps none at all, which is the way it should be.

 

[josie_L]

How is the Russian government doing that?

There are many human rights violations in Russia: the systematic torture of persons detained by police, the disappearance and/or deaths of those who oppose the government, the curbing of freedom of assembly/expression for any and all who demonstrate against legislation, which would include the bill passed by the Duma, i.e., "propaganda of non-traditional sexual relations. The law has effectively gagged gays in that they cannot even assemble peaceably in public, i.e., any public displays of disagreement. . . etc., will be viewed as propagating their views to the youth.

p.s. Putin is a man who in his quest to quell terrorism during the second Chechen war had no problem killing 130 theater members along with the terrorists that held them hostage, i.e., if you think this man is morally superior to Obama then I think we’re at an impasse (I cannot equate the things done by Putin as on the same level as what Obama has done).

 

[Hoosier_Daddy]

There are many human rights violations in Russia: the systematic torture of persons detained by police, the disappearance and/or deaths of those who oppose the government, the curbing of freedom of assembly/expression for any and all who demonstrate against legislation, which would include the bill passed by the Duma, i.e., "propaganda of non-traditional sexual relations. The law has effectively gagged gays in that they cannot even assemble peaceably in public, i.e., any public displays of disagreement. . . etc., will be viewed as propagating their views to the youth.

p.s. Putin is a man who in his quest to quell terrorism during the second Chechen war had no problem killing 130 theater members along with the terrorists that held them hostage, i.e., if you think this man is morally superior to Obama then I think we’re at an impasse (I cannot equate the things done by Putin as on the same level as what Obama has done).

You are engaging in the american equivalent of conspiracy theory. please provide facts for the government supporting these things.

Since yes, I do think the president of the US who supports infanticide, uses bully tactics, and attacks dissenters is inferior morally to almost any other western leader, including Putin’s attempt to stop gay pride parades, we are probably at an impasse.

 

[Denise1957]

Although it doesn’t have anything to do with religion neccessarily, Russia has implemented the giving of monetary benefits to families with three or more children. The population of Russia is in great decline, after the policies under the communists. I’ve read that the average number of abortions for women in Russia is about sixteen (I’ve no idea if abortion is outlawed there or not). Here’s an article on all the benefits offered to large families:

translate.googleusercontent.com/translate_c?depth=1&hl=en&ie=UTF8&prev=_t&rurl=translate.google.com&sl=ru&tl=en&u=http://deti.mail.ru/family/prava-i-lgoty-mnogodetnyh-semej/&usg=ALkJrhjryXVDxwB2qFKRM6Z9vbpA18pU7w

 

[AaronsStaff]

p.s. Putin is a man who in his quest to quell terrorism during the second Chechen war had no problem killing 130 theater members along with the terrorists that held them hostage, i.e., if you think this man is morally superior to Obama then I think we’re at an impasse (I cannot equate the things done by Putin as on the same level as what Obama has done).

I think this is totally unfair, and misrepresenting the entire situation of that hostage crisis. Someone reading this might think the Russian authorities just slaughtered civilians haphazardly.

You are referring to the Moscow theater hostage crisis. And for those who don’t know about it, Chechen terrorists, including suicide bombers held those (I believe 850 or so) in the theater hostage. Any attempt by the Russian authorities to storm the building and save the hostages would have meant the suicide bombers would detonate their bombs, killing all of the hostages. The Russian plan to end the standoff was to pump a chemical into the ventilation system to subdue the terrorists, the chemical ended up killing nearly all of the terrorists, and unfortunately 130 civilians died as well (but many more lived of the 850 I believe). The use of this tactic was criticized, but honestly, what wiggle room was there?

I can’t imagine many more complicated moral dilemmas than this. Try to storm the building conventionally, and you risk everyone dying, give in to their demands and who knows if they keep their word. I really don’t see how people can say this is a clear black mark on Putin’s record. I think drone strikes, which kill civilians and are chalked up as collateral damage have more room for moral criticism than the method used to take down these terrorists.

 

[Hoosier_Daddy]

I think this is totally unfair, and misrepresenting the entire situation of that hostage crisis. Someone reading this might think the Russian authorities just slaughtered civilians haphazardly.

You are referring to the Moscow theater hostage crisis. And for those who don’t know about it, Chechen terrorists, including suicide bombers held those (I believe 850 or so) in the theater hostage. Any attempt by the Russian authorities to storm the building and save the hostages would have meant the suicide bombers would detonate their bombs, killing all of the hostages. The Russian plan to end the standoff was to pump a chemical into the ventilation system to subdue the terrorists, the chemical ended up killing nearly all of the terrorists, and unfortunately 130 civilians died as well (but many more lived of the 850 I believe). The use of this tactic was criticized, but honestly, what wiggle room was there?

I can’t imagine many more complicated moral dilemmas than this. Try to storm the building conventionally. and you risk everyone dying, give in to their demands and who knows if they keep their word. I really don’t see how people can say this is a clear black mark on Putin’s record. I think drone strikes, which kill civilians and are chalked up as collateral damage have more room for moral criticism than the method used to take down these terrorists.

But but but, that doesn’t fit with the spy movies from hollywood that I watched as a young american…

Oh well, we will always have the moon landing.

 

[punisherthunder]

Putin and Russia are 1000% correct on this.

The United States is morally bankrupt. Just today on CNN there is an article of why there are no homosexual Disney characters and how there may be lawsuits coming. At the Grammys the other night, Katy Perry demostrated Satanic rituals to the whole country. The governments have allowed people to accept sodomy and abortion, yet question religion, morals, and God himself.

Some may cry about Russian boogeymen like KGB or being cruel to homosexuals and outlawing them for 100 years. Read the law properly. Russia has outlawed homosexual propaganda in public for 100 years. If that’s too much for you to take, maybe you should try San Francisco’s Gay Pride parade. Open sodomy all on the public streets and in the open. It’s disgusting. Do I hate them? No, I pity them and wish they would change.