Who’s ‘godless’ now? Russia says it’s U.S

[josie_L]

With all due respect those that propose the world will end in 10,000 years or so would clearly ignore what the Bible says regarding this matter. Here are some clear signs that we are close.

1. Right is wrong and wrong is right.
2. Child sacrifice, which God abhors, has taken more lives in the last 50 years than all the person that have died in all the wars since the beginning of man.
3. Homosexuality, which God abhors, is widespread and worse is being forced on innocent children.
4. The Gospel has all but reached all parts of the World.
5. Many prediction is Revelation are becoming true such as countries giving up their sovereignty due to the UN, IMF, EU and free trade agreements.
6. The love for many has grown cold, so children and the weak are discarded. No wonder so many people suffer from sever mental disease in the West.

The Gospel has not reached all parts of the World (Middle East, parts of Africa, China, North Korea,. . . .), moreover, the Jews as a whole have not converted to the faith, i.e., I believe St. Paul mentioned that “Israel” will convert before the Second Coming:

There will be a widespread conversion of the Jews. As the Catechism of the Catholic Church puts it: “The glorious Messiah’s coming is suspended at every moment of history until his recognition by ‘all Israel,’ for ‘a hardening has come upon part of Israel’ in their ‘unbelief’ toward Jesus” (Rom 11:20-26; Cf. Mt 23:39). [9] This has been the understanding ever since the Church Fathers, for instance, St. Augustine: “In connection with the last judgment, therefore, we who believe can be sure of the following truths … the Jews will believe”. [10] One of the scriptural sources for this belief is Hosea 3:5:

“Afterward the children of Israel shall return and seek the LORD their God, and David their king; and they shall come in fear to the LORD and to his goodness in the latter days.” Blessed Pope Pius IX explicitly cited this passage as referring to the conversion of the Jews in the end times. [11]

St. Paul’s Letter to the Romans contains an extensive discussion of the conversion of the Jews in the end times that will be explored at length in the next chapter (Romans 11:25-26):

“Lest you be wise in your own conceits, I want you to understand this mystery, brethren: a hardening has come upon part of Israel, until the full number of the Gentiles come in, and so all Israel will be saved.”

Jesus Himself prophesied the conversion of the Jews prior to the Second Coming when He said (Matthew 23:37-39):

“O Jerusalem, Jerusalem… Behold, your house is forsaken and desolate. For I tell you, you will not see me again, until you say, ‘Blessed is he who comes in the name of the Lord.’”

Here Jesus is saying that he will not be seen again (i.e., the Second Coming will not occur) until “you” (the Jews) say, “Blessed is he who comes in the name of the Lord” (i.e., acknowledge Jesus as the Messiah).

ignatiusinsight.com/features2006/rschoeman_seccoming_jan06.asp

 

[Catolico65]

The Gospel has not reached all parts of the World (Middle East, parts of Africa, China, North Korea,. . . .), moreover, the Jews as a whole have not converted to the faith, i.e., I believe St. Paul mentioned that “Israel” will convert before the Second Coming:

ignatiusinsight.com/features2006/rschoeman_seccoming_jan06.asp

I never said the Gospel has reached all parts of the world.

With all due respect you consistently misinterpret/misrepresent comments, I hope that is just out of carelessness as opposed to something else. Paz,

 

[josie_L]

I never said the Gospel has reached all parts of the world.

With all due respect you consistently misinterpret/misrepresent comments, I hope that is just out of carelessness as opposed to something else. Paz,

I am not misinterpreting anything, here are your words: “The Gospel has all but reached all parts of the World.”

And I am saying, no, it has not, i.e., North Korea, the Middle East, China, parts of Africa . . . . etc., i.e., these are huge parts of the world that are preventing missionaries and/or the institutions (such as the CC) from evangelizing.

 

[josie_L]

With all due respect no one is making finite predictions. We are merely deferring to the signs given in Scripture. Please try to discern the difference.

You said the West is past the point of no return, that in my eyes is a finite prediction.

 

[Catolico65]

I am not misinterpreting anything, here are your words: “The Gospel has all but reached all parts of the World.”

And I am saying, no, it has not, i.e., North Korea, the Middle East, China, parts of Africa . . . . etc., i.e., these are huge parts of the world.

The term “all but reached” means that it has not been completed. It appears maybe your first language is French?

 

[josie_L]

The term “all but reached” means that it has not been completed. It appears maybe your first language is French?

No, English is my first language, although “all but reached all parts of the world” implies at least to me, that most of the world, if not almost all the world, has had the gospel preached.

God bless!

 

[Catolico65]

No, English is my first language, although “all but reached all parts of the world” implies at least to me, that most of the world, if not almost all the world has had the gospel preached to them.

God bless!

You now say that “all but reached” is the equivalent of “most” of the world where before you said it was all of the world. Which one is it?

 

[josie_L]

You now say that “all but reached” is the equivalent of “most” of the world where before you said it was all of the world. Which one is it?

I wasn’t trying to misinterpret what you were saying, i.e., I’m simply disagree with your statement that the gospel has “all but reached all parts of the world”, i.e., there are still huge portions of the world that have not had the chance to be properly evangelized.

 

[Catolico65]

You said the West is past the point of no return, that in my eyes is a finite prediction.

My use of the term was directed at your supposition that I can calculate a date for the end of the world, which I can’t of course. In fact no one can. Nonetheless, that doesn’t mean we are to ignore the signs that the Bible and Jesus Himself have given us.

Also, apparently you don’t see the gravity and the seriousness of child sacrifice and homosexuality, both of which God abhors. Do you realize that since child sacrifice was institutionalized by atheist socialist that likely 800,000,000 to 1.3 billion children have been slaughtered across the world and that this number is greater that the total number of deaths of all the recorded wars?? It boggles my mind that someone could state things are getting better when the statistics state otherwise. Unlike for us humans, all human life is valuable to God.

 

[Catolico65]

I wasn’t trying to misinterpret what you were saying, i.e., I’m simply disagree with your statement that the gospel has “all but reached all parts of the world”, i.e., there are still huge portions of the world that have not had the chance to be properly evangelized.

With all due respect you are vacillating again. I never stated that the Gospel has reached all parts of the world. To state that it is far off is is not very well informed either.

 

[josie_L]

My use of the term was directed at your supposition that I can calculate a date for the end of the world, which I can’t of course. In fact no one can. Nonetheless, that doesn’t mean we are to ignore the signs that the Bible and Jesus Himself have given us.

No, I didn’t say you could calculate the exact date of the end of the world, but you are more than implying that the end is near, which is probably why you said “the West is past the point of no return” in the first place. You also seem to think you understand what those signs are or rather mean more than I, i.e., you kept referencing I should read the Bible or listen to the news. . . . .etc. But in the end, my beef was with your comment about “the West is past the point of no return”.

 

[josie_L]

With all due respect you are vacillating again. I never stated that the Gospel has reached all parts of the world. To state that it is far off is is not very well informed either.

Okay, so you didn’t say that the gospel has reached all parts of the world, although you come pretty close to saying it “all but reached all parts of the world”, i.e., I was rejecting the idea that “all but reached all parts of the world”, when we have North Korea, the Middle East, parts of Africa, China, and many parts of South East Asia that have yet to be properly evangelized (mainly because of anti-Christian sentiments and laws).

P.S. Not to mention that the Jews/Israel have yet to convert, which is a sign of the coming of the Lord.

 

[kate_jackson]

I feel that there is the 'tower of babel’in many periods of time and it gets knocked down! Egypt fell by the power of God and people enslaved under that regime. …Rome fell. …and I think we are ending a similar period as the control is being knocked back as it’s ability to expand any further is stopped by lack of resources ie oil. Control is gained by debt (slavery) . The fight against renewable energy is perhaps that its expansion across the globe brings independence back to the individual and each nation because that industry doesn’t carry debt with it. I think these are desperate times for those people in power who are at the end of their time in their ability to have a grip on monetary systems across the globe.look out for bitcoin and other similar currencies coming up which will dismantle this grip of power addicts. I think there will be a turn around as these horrific policies have been enforced by a minority. …so im still hopeful and im glad there has been a major turn around in Russia. Sorry for the rambling !!

 

[Catolico65]

Okay, so you didn’t say that the gospel has reached all parts of the world, although you come pretty close to saying it “all but reached all parts of the world”, i.e., I was rejecting the idea that “all but reached all parts of the world”, when we have North Korea, the Middle East, parts of Africa, China, and many parts of South East Asia that have yet to be properly evangelized (mainly because of anti-Christian sentiments and laws).

P.S. Not to mention that the Jews/Israel have yet to convert, which is a sign of the coming of the Lord.

The Jews have nothing to do with the claim.

Also, many places you referenced has already been reached by the Gospel. The fact is very few areas remain especially now with the Internet.

 

[josie_L]

The Jews have nothing to do with the claim.

Also, many places you referenced has already been reached by the Gospel. The fact is very few areas remain especially now with the Internet.

Many of those countries are dictatorships and/or act like dictatorships, i.e., they limit their people’s access to the Internet, moreover, I don’t know how many more don’t have proper access to the Internet (North Korea or parts of Africa). I’m not denying that many parts of the world have been preached too but there are still many places that have not been properly evangelized because of discriminatory laws/persecution (restrictions), i.e., in Saudia Arabia there are still no bibles or churches allowed on their territory.

 

[Catolico65]

Many of those countries are dictatorships and/or act like dictatorships, i.e., they limit their people’s access to the Internet, moreover, I don’t know how many more don’t have proper access to the Internet (North Korea or parts of Africa). I’m not denying that many parts of the world have been preached too but there are still many places that have not been properly evangelized because of discriminatory laws/persecution (restrictions), i.e., in Saudia Arabia there are still no bibles or churches allowed on their territory.

Your claims are not correct. You should do more research.

 

[Hoosier_Daddy]

Many of those countries are dictatorships and/or act like dictatorships, i.e., they limit their people’s access to the Internet, moreover, I don’t know how many more don’t have proper access to the Internet (North Korea or parts of Africa). I’m not denying that many parts of the world have been preached too but there are still many places that have not been properly evangelized because of discriminatory laws/persecution (restrictions), i.e., in Saudia Arabia there are still no bibles or churches allowed on their territory.

This is an interesting subject. And it probably should be on another thread. But personally I don’t take the idea that the entire world and every soul in it needs to be preached for the time to be fulfilled. The Gospel has been preached in all four corners of the world. Not all have heard it but not all have heard it in Rome either! From the invention of democracy, to the printing press to now the internet it can be fairly assumed that the Gospel has been preached and is capable of being preached in all areas. Saudi Arabia may indeed not allow it, but it is done there as well. China as well. Now with Muslim countries in the Middle East it is noteworthy that at one time, they were all Christian. So indeed the Gospel HAS been preached in Saudi Arabia, in fact at one time, THEY were the ones spreading it. Fast forward to the New World and you can see that the Gospel was preached by the early monks, priests and explorers. Look at Our Lady of Guadalupe, responsible for the conversion of millions, and ten thousand in just one day!

Now the Jewish issue is a much tougher one to get a grasp on. On one hand we have our own Church which directs us NOT to “evangelize” the Jews. There are many ways this prophecy about the Jews could be fulfilled and believe it or not it may already have been, OTOH it may not even have to. From a historical and numbers perspective one could make the argument that indeed the Jews HAVE already converted. You would have to define “Jew” and that definition could vary, from a heritage standpoint to a religion. But one has to look at the idea of the early Christians being the small minority to now where the Jews are the small minority and you could make the claim that the “Jews” have converted. Now if you mean that down to every last person who professes the Jewish faith must believe before God will come again, well I don’t think it should be taken that literally.

One must also note that the way that prophecy can be fulfilled is in a violent terrible way that Iran could do at any day.

Bottom line. If you think the TEOTWAWKI cannot happen tomorrow. You are putting your hope in a false sense of security, which the God Himself warns about many many times. However, if you think the world is ending now, and you are just sure we will see it in our lives, you are ignorant of what the world must have looked like historically. We have seen mass fulfilment of many end of days prophesies, most recently the Holocaust. But even before that there were empires that fell, worlds that converted and temples destroyed.

One thing for certain, between the second you read this and 80 or so years from now, you will meet your own personal “end of the world” where you will be judged. So I have never understood why so many worry about the End of the World. What does it matter if a bus hits you tomorrow or God smites with balls of fire tomorrow? The outcome is the same. Now, everyone, get behind me in line for confession!!
“No one knows the day or the hour.” So that means that anyone who tells you tomorrow is the day is lying, and anyone who tells you it is not is lying as well.

 

[josie_L]

Your claims are not correct. You should do more research.

Catolico, I don’t have stats per se, but I know that many of these countries hinder the spread of Christianity whether it’s by limiting their access to the Internet or enforcing laws that discriminate (blasphemy laws) or creating a climate of intolerance. . . . etc.

 

[oldcelt]

The Jews have nothing to do with the claim.

Also, many places you referenced has already been reached by the Gospel. The fact is very few areas remain especially now with the Internet.

I have heard it said that the entire world can be reached with the Gospel in the next generation. It is probably anyone’s guess. It is probably also anybody’s guess regarding which “gospel” will reach each person unless someone is there to witness it and knows that the person in question truly understands the gravity of the teaching.

 

[josie_L]

This is an interesting subject. And it probably should be on another thread. But personally I don’t take the idea that the entire world and every soul in it needs to be preached for the time to be fulfilled. The Gospel has been preached in all four corners of the world. Not all have heard it but not all have heard it in Rome either! From the invention of democracy, to the printing press to now the internet it can be fairly assumed that the Gospel has been preached and is capable of being preached in all areas. Saudi Arabia may indeed not allow it, but it is done there as well. China as well. Now with Muslim countries in the Middle East it is noteworthy that at one time, they were all Christian. So indeed the Gospel HAS been preached in Saudi Arabia, in fact at one time, THEY were the ones spreading it. Fast forward to the New World and you can see that the Gospel was preached by the early monks, priests and explorers. Look at Our Lady of Guadalupe, responsible for the conversion of millions, and ten thousand in just one day!

I am saying that there are many elements within these societies that hinder the spread of Christianity, I am not saying it is physically impossible to reach these people. There are still major parts of the world that do all they can to prevent religious freedom, i.e., there is an underground church in China (because the CC refuses to nationalize the Church and put it under government control), there are blasphemy laws in many Middle Eastern countries and parts of Africa and South East Asia. . . etc.

Now the Jewish issue is a much tougher one to get a grasp on. On one hand we have our own Church which directs us NOT to “evangelize” the Jews. There are many ways this prophecy about the Jews could be fulfilled and believe it or not it may already have been, OTOH it may not even have to. From a historical and numbers perspective one could make the argument that indeed the Jews HAVE already converted. You would have to define “Jew” and that definition could vary, from a heritage standpoint to a religion. But one has to look at the idea of the early Christians being the small minority to now where the Jews are the small minority and you could make the claim that the “Jews” have converted. Now if you mean that down to every last person who professes the Jewish faith must believe before God will come again, well I don’t think it should be taken that literally.

Please read my article that I posted by Roy Shoeman, a Hebrew Catholic (Jewish convert).

Bottom line. If you think the TEOTWAWKI cannot happen tomorrow. You are putting your hope in a false sense of security, which the God Himself warns about many many times. However, if you think the world is ending now, and you are just sure we will see it in our lives, you are ignorant of what the world must have looked like historically. We have seen mass fulfilment of many end of days prophesies, most recently the Holocaust. But even before that there were empires that fell, worlds that converted and temples destroyed.

One thing for certain, between the second you read this and 80 or so years from now, you will meet your own personal “end of the world” where you will be judged. So I have never understood why so many worry about the End of the World. What does it matter if a bus hits you tomorrow or God smites with balls of fire tomorrow? The outcome is the same. Now, everyone, get behind me in line for confession!!

“No one knows the day or the hour.” So that means that anyone who tells you tomorrow is the day is lying, and anyone who tells you it is not is lying as well.

Finally, we agree.