Who Actually Built The Kaaba?

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SaberBob said:
“the Koran is the standard of revelation literature because the Koran says it is the standard of revelation literature.”

That is a circular reasoning fallacy. Why does the Uncreated Creator have to stoop to such an error?
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Qur’an challenge to bring something match with verses! Nobody can do that. Qur’an is miraculous at least with 40 attributes. Qur’an cannot be a human’s words.
 
Mhmtas63,

Which utterly ignores the problem of the cirrcular reasoning fallacy.

Also, the Koran’s challenge as been met, most recently with The True Farquan as I mentioned, but it’s highly probable others have met and exceeded the Koran’s quality of Classic Arabic, but these examples are rejected out of hand.

Additionally, the Koran’s test is hopelessly culturally subjective. In the Bible alone, we have the examples of Isaiah and Psalms which far surpass the Koran for nuanced expression, which largely holds true in translation whereas the Koran does not.
 
That’s so subjective as to be worthless. The language in Psalms and in, say the Rigveda certainly surpass the Qu’ran. As to content, Mohammed and the other compilers had the Torah, the New Testament and a good deal of Syriac writings to go by.
 
Kovaska said:
Islamic teachings say that Abraham built the Kaaba with his son. Does the Kaaba actually have anything to do with Abraham or was that just another thing Muhammad made up?
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Abu al Qasim made it up. Abraham wasn’t anywhere near the area. It’s a pagan structure.
 
Let’s apply the Koran’s challenge and how Muslims methodologically reject other texts as being equal to the Koran, but we’ll use another literature…

“The greatest English playwright is Christopher Marlowe. No single or collaborative writing effort can match, let alone surpass Marlowe’s plays”

Trot out Shakespeare’s Hamlet…

Taking a cue from Muslim literary critics, the Marlowe-ist will flat out deny Hamlet exceeds anything Marlowe wrote on his best day when 99.9% of most educated people will see it does. The tactic is the same, claiming the goal is unattainable, and denying it has been attained when objectively it HAS been met, if not surpassed.
 
SaberBob said:
Let’s apply the Koran’s challenge and how Muslims methodologically reject other texts as being equal to the Koran, but we’ll use another literature…

“The greatest English playwright is Christopher Marlowe. No single or collaborative writing effort can match, let alone surpass Marlowe’s plays”

Trot out Shakespeare’s Hamlet …

Taking a cue from Muslim literary critics, the Marlowe-ist will flat out deny Hamlet exceeds anything Marlowe wrote on his best day when 99.9% of most educated people will see it does. The tactic is the same, claiming the goal is unattainable, and denying it has been attained when objectively it HAS been met, if not surpassed.
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People believed and were convinced about revelation. Because Muhammad had never said such thing untill He got revelation. Sometimes revelation were used to come while prophet were among people and people could understand. Muhammad had never lied in His life. He had no any vice. There were many poets upon that times. Those poets could not contest with verses.

The religion and faith is an exam and offer but there is no compulsion. Sometimes prophet Muhammad performed some miracles. Some people believed but some said “that is a magic”. So if people could explained away an obvious miracle so some people can say Qur’an was compiled from other books.
 
Mh,

I’m sorry I’m right now away from my notes of the Koran, but even in there is the explicit denial Muhammad was plagiarizing other sources–which is corraboration in the Koran itself that some Arabians WERE accusing Muhammad of that very thing. So, as a traveling merchant, Muhammad would have been in proximity to both Jews and Christians, as everyone there being part of a oral-dominant culture, sharing of religious stories and beliefs would have been natural, expected.

Since you brought up the issue of poets, Muhammad egged on and approved of the murder of THREE poets who mocked him and his Revelations since Allah could apparently only reveal in sonorous, incredibly repetitive prose and NOT in verse
 
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How do explain the Sana manuscript? It is the earliest known copy and comprises two layers of text of which the oldest layer has many variants to the accepted text.

From wiki: The Sana’a manuscript, is one of the oldest Quranic manuscripts in existence. It was found, along with many other Quranic and non-Quranic fragments, in Yemen in 1972 during restoration of the Great Mosque of Sana’a. The manuscript is written on parchment, and comprises two layers of text (see palimpsest). The upper text conforms to the standard 'Uthmanic Quran, whereas the lower text contains many variants to the standard text. An edition of the lower text was published in 2012.[2] A radiocarbon analysis has dated the parchment containing the lower text to before 671 AD with a 99% accuracy.[3]

Just as Muslims condemn the Bible for variants, here the earliest text is variant to the current text…or does your faith require you to dismiss the evidence and explain it away? (Que the second option here)
 
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Qur’an is so high that cannot be belong to a human. Is there how much degree between God and human? So Qur’an is so above human’s word.
 
Qur’an is miraculous at least by 40 ways. It take very long to explain. 1. Literature(literature is miraculous by several ways. 2. prophecy about past and future(by several ways). 3. implying many topics with few words (by several ways) 4. informing about hiddens and unknowns. 5. becoming fresh and youthful by time. 6. can be memorised even by kids 7. discoursing to all minds.

Just if someone look at that copy he will see one side miracle which appeal eyes. In that copy all word of “Allah, in Arabic” match to each other one under other. Look at videos.

tAWAFUQ
 
Not to be rude but the same people who still worship it do.
 
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mhmtas63 said:
Qur’an is so high that cannot be belong to a human. Is there how much degree between God and human? So Qur’an is so above human’s word.
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You do understand that to an outsider that’s a circular arguments, right?
 
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Just remember this is pretty close to an anonymous forum. I never see or have heard Jews or Muslims engage in apologetics for their religion in public.
 
mhmtas63 said:
There were/are many false prophets!
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Everything you claim about Mohammed and the Quran can also be said of Joseph Smith and the Book of Mormon.

I must say, I wonder what a conversation between a Muslim apologist and a Mormon apologist would be like?
 
Joseph Smith Jr., the founder of Mormonism was called by many of his contemporaries “the American Muhammad” and NEVER in a complimentary way. Like Islam’s Prophet, Smith proclaimed a new religious revelation, a purifying clarification and correction to universal apostasy, and many people heard/read these “revelations” and we’re converted. Like Muhammad, Smith achieved a degree of political and military power (by his death, Smith was the general of the Navoo Legion, a 12,000 member militia that was only second in size to the US Army). Like Muhammad, Smith received revelations that justified his taking as plural wives women who were already married to his male followers. Finally, like Muhammad, Smith increasingly acted in a high-handed way (ordered the destruction of an apostate’s newspaper and sanctioned an efforcer squad, “Danites” who acted as assassins for Smith and his successors). Unlike the Arabian Prophet, Smith lived in a fairly populous frontier where mob/vigilante justice was accepted in the breach, and Smith and his brother were murdered by a mob, ending the particular career of this American Muhammad.
 
SaberBob said:
Joseph Smith Jr., the founder of Mormonism was called by many of his contemporaries “the American Muhammad” and NEVER in a complimentary way. Like Islam’s Prophet, Smith proclaimed a new religious revelation, a purifying clarification and correction to universal apostasy, and many people heard/read these “revelations” and we’re converted. Like Muhammad, Smith achieved a degree of political and military power (by his death, Smith was the general of the Navoo Legion, a 12,000 member militia that was only second in size to the US Army). Like Muhammad, Smith received revelations that justified his taking as plural wives women who were already married to his male followers. Finally, like Muhammad, Smith increasingly acted in a high-handed way (ordered the destruction of an apostate’s newspaper and sanctioned an efforcer squad, “Danites” who acted as assassins for Smith and his successors). Unlike the Arabian Prophet, Smith lived in a fairly populous frontier where mob/vigilante justice was accepted in the breach, and Smith and his brother were murdered by a mob, ending the particular career of this American Muhammad.
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Joseph Smith is like St Paul who claimed to see(view) Jesus. Smith is a Christianic issue but not Islamic.
 
Just two case:

a)
  1. The Byzantines have been defeated

  2. Within three to nine years. To Allah belongs the command before and after. And that day the believers will rejoice​

  3. In the victory of Allah . He gives victory to whom He wills, and He is the Exalted in Might, the Merciful. Ar-Rum(30)​

In that verses it is prophecied that Byzanties (people of book) would defeat Sassanids(Iranians, who were Pagans worship fire). Iranians defeated Byzantine. Pagans said Muslims that how Iranian pagans defeated people of book(Byzantine, followed Bible) so they would defeat Muslims(people of Qur’an. )And God in Qur’an informed that Byzantine would defeat pagans. You can check wikipedia

b)
  1. Certainly has Allah showed to His Messenger the vision in truth. You will surely enter al-Masjid al-Haram, if Allah wills, in safety, with your heads shaved and [hair] shortened, not fearing [anyone]. He knew what you did not know and has arranged before that a conquest near [at hand]. Al-Fath(48)
Muhammad saw a vision that Muslims will enter Mecca as pilgrims with safe. Muslims went to Mecca but pagans did not allow Muslims to get into town. Muslims did return. Some Muslims asked prophet: Are you not prophet? You said we wouıld enter with safe? Then those verses above was revealed. After 3 years Muslims got into Mecca with safe.
 
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