Who are the protesters behind Occupy Wall Street–and what do they want?

[manualman]

Big deal. So the existing Dem establishment is trying to take over the OWS grass roots. The republican establishment has tried hard to take over the Tea Party. Neither is (IMO) a comfortable fit because both grass roots groups are PO’d about things each of those conventional parties are COMPLICIT in.

I’m still bewildered by the apparent consensus here that anybody who cries foul over the extremely corrupt culture of high finance in this country is a closet commie. Are all you guys just Glen Beck and Rush posting in disguise?

 

[Scott_Lafrance]

Big deal. So the existing Dem establishment is trying to take over the OWS grass roots. The republican establishment has tried hard to take over the Tea Party. Neither is (IMO) a comfortable fit because both grass roots groups are PO’d about things each of those conventional parties are COMPLICIT in.

I’m still bewildered by the apparent consensus here that anybody who cries foul over the extremely corrupt culture of high finance in this country is a closet commie. Are all you guys just Glen Beck and Rush posting in disguise?

I am equally po’d about the criminals in corporate america and the banking industry. However, I can honestly say that demanding “guaranteed living wages for life regardless of employment” is hardly a good start at improving anything. I would like to know how these bozos thing the economy works.

 

[rlg94086]

Dear protesters in New York City,

You are not 99 percent of America. I don’t mean that in the obvious numerical sense. If 99 percent of Americans had actually joined your march, Manhattan would have flipped over by now.

What I mean is that if 99 percent of Americans actually sympathized with your cause, the entire nation’s economy would have collapsed long ago – apparently to the delight of the organizers of this current protest.

What I mean to say is, you have a marketing problem.

When you decided to sit in traffic and block the Brooklyn Bridge a few days ago, with that blazing pink “SMASH PATRIARCHY-SMASH CAPITALISM” sign in hand, you probably didn’t see the regular people you stranded in traffic.

You know, the ones with real-world concerns, business to attend to, families to go home to, et cetera. You may have read about such people during college in a book called “The Petit Bourgeoisie,” or something like that. Many of us grew up calling them “the middle class.”

Whatever you call them, they are hurting badly in this economy, probably more than you are. (I’m just judging by that sweet digital video camera I see you holding out in front of the cops, in hopes of provoking them into a viral-video police brutality incident.)

Those people you left stuck in traffic have a hard time paying their bills and rents and health insurance and mortgages. They worry about things like finding decent schools for their children to attend and making sure they don’t get fired at work, and fixing leaking roofs and chimneys.

You know what they don’t worry about, ever? Smashing patriarchy and capitalism.

So when your organizers go on television and say things like, “It’s revolution, not reform!” and they’re not joking, those words might give some of these narrow-minded people an unpleasant, October 1917 kind of feeling.

campaign2012.washingtonexaminer.com/article/letter-new-york-city-protestors



Looking at the photos of the protestors sort of reminds me of the Oingo Boingo song Capitalism (not that I agree with all the sentiments of the song):

You’re just a middle class, socialist brat from a suburban family,
And you never really had to work.
And, you tell me that we’ve got to get back
To the suffering masses, whoever they are.
You talk, talk about your suffering and pain.
You’re mouth is bigger than your entire brain.
What the [heck] do you know about suffering and pain?

 

[rlg94086]

Big deal. So the existing Dem establishment is trying to take over the OWS grass roots. The republican establishment has tried hard to take over the Tea Party. Neither is (IMO) a comfortable fit because both grass roots groups are PO’d about things each of those conventional parties are COMPLICIT in.

Actually, the Tea Party stands against raising taxes. That is completely compatible with the Republican Party, so why wouldn’t they embrace them?

On the other hand, the OWS crowd is anti-capitalism, anti-corporation and pro-socialism. Why would the Democrats embrace that? …oh, yeah, you are right…there is equivalency.

 

[Scott_Lafrance]

campaign2012.washingtonexaminer.com/article/letter-new-york-city-protestors



Looking at the photos of the protestors sort of reminds me of the Oingo Boingo song Capitalism (not that I agree with all the sentiments of the song):

You’re just a middle class, socialist brat from a suburban family,
And you never really had to work.
And, you tell me that we’ve got to get back
To the suffering masses, whoever they are.
You talk, talk about your suffering and pain.
You’re mouth is bigger than your entire brain.
What the [heck] do you know about suffering and pain?

This song is about the typical Emo looser.

 

[St_Francis]

I’m still bewildered by the apparent consensus here that anybody who cries foul over the extremely corrupt culture of high finance in this country is a closet commie. Are all you guys just Glen Beck and Rush posting in disguise?

No… It’s just that a lot of us grew up in a time when Communism was understood to be the evil it is, and watching the Soviet-funded student radicals of the 60’s do their thing, or even “recovering” from having been doing it. So anything that sounds remotely Communistic provokes an automatic antagonism that can be hard to get over. I’m working on it, myself.

It’s just that a lot of people don’t realize you can be against excessive corporatism without being a Communist.

 

[rlg94086]

No… It’s just that a lot of us grew up in a time when Communism was understood to be the evil it is, and watching the Soviet-funded student radicals of the 60’s do their thing, or even “recovering” from having been doing it. So anything that sounds remotely Communistic provokes an automatic antagonism that can be hard to get over. I’m working on it, myself.

It’s just that a lot of people don’t realize you can be against excessive corporatism without being a Communist.

Of course it’s possible. I’m sure there aren’t any communist sympathies within the Occupy Wall Street group…

 

[St_Francis]

Of course it’s possible. I’m sure there aren’t any communist sympathies within the Occupy Wall Street group…
http://weaselzippers.us/wp-content/uploads/2011/09/Anti-Capitalism.jpg

I did not mean to imply that the OWS people were anything other than the philosophical descendats of the 60s radicals and their dupes.

 

[Tabooo]

This song is about the typical Emo looser.

Or, invest in a dictionary…or pay attention in English class.

By your own logic, you should invest in a dictionary or should have paid more attention in English class.

Sorry guys, but sometimes people make mistakes.

(Unless you meant to write that, because in that case, I have just made a mistake.)

 

[Scott_Lafrance]

By your own logic, you should invest in a dictionary or should have paid more attention in English class.

Sorry guys, but sometimes people make mistakes.

(Unless you meant to write that, because in that case, I have just made a mistake.)

Right, I was talking about an Emo person that loosens things.

 

[EmperorNapoleon]

What kind of critical thinking skills went into blaming Wall Street for unfortunate personal choices?

Wall Street isn’t blameless. Goldman Sachs, for example, deliberately set their clients up for financial ruin so they could profit from it. They single handedly destroyed Bear Stearns among many other clients. But apparently not enough people in Washington believe that betting against your own clients after fraudulently selling them toxic debt obligations should be frowned upon.

 

[Tabooo]

Right, I was talking about an Emo person that loosens things.

My bad, it was my mistake.

 

[Pirate_Talker]

I’m glad people are getting involved. I think most Americans have become too complacent and no one is paying attention to what is going on in this country. Why does everything have to be a communist plot? Maybe the Tea Party is active for causes they believe in and this new group is trying to express their frustration with the way things are. Does this forum consist of a bunch of people shaking their hands at the sky and screaming “Get off my lawn” or can we acknowledge that we are a diverse country with room for everyone.

 

[nathan_oc]

It’s nice to see the unions,community organizers, and moveon.org come in today to help out. This is a list of what they need to be donated, because if they buy them would be helping out the evil capitalist. nycga.cc/2011/10/04/needsoftheoccupiers/

 

[iwillrisenow]

I have a great deal of sympathy for the young people who are protesting. Compared to recent college graduates in the past, they have a much harder time finding a job, they are working for lower wages or failing to get the kind of jobs that will help them advance in their careers, and they are saddled with enormous debt.

According to an article from the NY Times, employment rates for new college graduates have fallen sharply in the last two years, as have starting salaries for those who can find work. What’s more, only half of the jobs landed by these new graduates even require a college degree. The article cited statistics that showed that 22.4% of recent college graduates are not working and of those who are working, 22.4% are working at jobs that do not require a college degree. Among the members of the class of 2010, just 56 percent had held at least one job by this spring, when the survey was conducted. That compares with 90 percent of graduates from the classes of 2006 and 2007. Moreover, average salaries are 10% lower than for those who graduated from 2006-2008.

nytimes.com/2011/05/19/business/economy/19grads.html

Young adults have something to complain about. And they have lots of time on their hands to hang out on Wall St. to do their complaining.

I’m glad someone stepped up and actually acknowledged how bad things truly are right now. Thank you,** Alan55**.

I can’t believe the nasty remarks some of you are making about young people who are on the brink of poverty and insanity because of their financial situations.

They’re not asking for a whole lot of money. They’re not asking for jobs sitting on thrones while people worship them all day.

People cannot even get the fast food/coffee shop/retail jobs anymore. If you have one of these jobs, you are lucky.

Young people KNOW this.

They cannot move to North Dakota and work on your oil rig because they cannot afford the airfare or even bus fare and relocation costs.

They are doing this because they’ve cut down and scaled back and STILL cannot make ends meet, with no end in sight.

Things don’t work the way they did when most of you came out of school. Even the most practical field you can think of is short on job prospects these days.

Since when does wanting to be able to afford to eat make you a Communist?

Please don’t make rude comments about majors that are anything but…well, go ahead, tell me what major you wouldn’t mock. Tell me what field hasn’t faced any cutbacks whatsoever in this recession.

If you look at that wearethe99percent tumblr, you’ll see a number of people, in their 20s or 30s, who have serious medical conditions and are unable to get any kind of health care. You’ll see nurses and scientists, young single mothers and struggling families. People who’ve written that they have to choose between rent and food every month. These young people are feeling trapped, hopeless, suicidal, and depressed: why are you mocking them?

If these are the voices of my fellow Americans, I’m losing my faith in this country right along with them.

As Catholic Christians, we should be listening, not mocking them.

Can you picture Jesus Christ calling people who are suffering and living in poverty “spoiled brats” and “Communists”?

 

[JimG]

Wall Street isn’t blameless. Goldman Sachs, for example, deliberately set their clients up for financial ruin so they could profit from it. They single handedly destroyed Bear Stearns among many other clients. But apparently not enough people in Washington believe that betting against your own clients after fraudulently selling them toxic debt obligations should be frowned upon.

Bear Sterns was just like Goldman Sachs, just somewhat dumber. When investment banks deal for their own accounts, every trader in every Wall Street firm has only one question: “how are they trying to screw us over?” Sometimes they ask it out loud; sometimes they try to figure it out. But it’s always in the forefront of their thoughts.

When Wall Street firms were selling billions in synthetic housing market derivatives, there were a lot of buyers for them. There were a few, though far less, who examined them more closely, and thought, ‘wow, this stuff is pure junk; how can we bet against it?’ Thus was born the credit default swap, which insured buyers of housing market derivatives against loss. They were a way to short the housing market, or more particularly, a way to short housing market derivatives

Of course, if the housing market went down by even a rather small amount, (as it did) subprime loans were sure to default. Yet Bear Sterns couldn’t see that. Well, a lot of people couldn’t see that, because they didn’t look at what was in those CDO’s. Even Standard and Poors, whose job it was to know what was risky, didn’t see that. They thought their risk models were right on target. They gave AAA ratings to stuff that was filled with junk, not because they were evil, but because they didn’t look closely enough at what they were rating.

All the buyers of CDO’s filled with junk mortgages thought they were the smart ones, and that they were screwing over the ones taking the short side of the market. Lots of people tried to convince them otherwise, without success.

But let’s not shed too many tears for the individuals involved in going long on bad mortgages. Even though they were way wrong, most kept their jobs and their bonuses, and the taxpayers bailed out their companies.

Still I wish I had bought some credit default swaps! But only the really big players got a chance to do that. And most of them never even took that chance. They turned it down, thereby losing money for themselves and their clients.

 

[bellasbane]

I’m glad someone stepped up and actually acknowledged how bad things truly are right now. Thank you,** Alan55**.

I can’t believe the nasty remarks some of you are making about young people who are on the brink of poverty and insanity because of their financial situations.

They’re not asking for a whole lot of money. They’re not asking for jobs sitting on thrones while people worship them all day.

People cannot even get the fast food/coffee shop/retail jobs anymore. If you have one of these jobs, you are lucky.

Young people KNOW this.

They cannot move to North Dakota and work on your oil rig because they cannot afford the airfare or even bus fare and relocation costs.

They are doing this because they’ve cut down and scaled back and STILL cannot make ends meet, with no end in sight.

Things don’t work the way they did when most of you came out of school. Even the most practical field you can think of is short on job prospects these days.

Since when does wanting to be able to afford to eat make you a Communist?

Please don’t make rude comments about majors that are anything but…well, go ahead, tell me what major you wouldn’t mock. Tell me what field hasn’t faced any cutbacks whatsoever in this recession.

If you look at that wearethe99percent tumblr, you’ll see a number of people, in their 20s or 30s, who have serious medical conditions and are unable to get any kind of health care. You’ll see nurses and scientists, young single mothers and struggling families. People who’ve written that they have to choose between rent and food every month. These young people are feeling trapped, hopeless, suicidal, and depressed: why are you mocking them?

If these are the voices of my fellow Americans, I’m losing my faith in this country right along with them.

As Catholic Christians, we should be listening, not mocking them.

Can you picture Jesus Christ calling people who are suffering and living in poverty “spoiled brats” and “Communists”?

Great post

Welcome to the Church. As you can see, we are not a monolithic crowd. Tough love is one thing - mockery is another. Some folks forget the difference when repeating right-wing talking points.

 

[new_User1357246]

Almost all of the demands coming from the OWS protesters are stupid. But there is a real problem.

It seems like a lot of people here are dismissing the plight of the recent college grads, for instance. A lot of college students did do all of the right things and are now underemployed. Had they graduated two years earlier, they would be doing much better. That is a fact. They got unlucky, due to the economy. Nobody should be saying that these people have no right to complain. They are worse off than the others who did exactly the same thing and there is no reason for that other than that they got unlucky…

I know people, in the sciences even, who have been looking and haven’t found ‘good’ jobs. One of my great friends go great grades, worked multiple jobs throughout school, captained an athletic team, and had a reasonable choice of major (he majored in a hard science). After school, he searched and searched for a job, but found nothing. So now he’s working for a liquor store half time and in a packaging plant half time. That is underemployment. He doesn’t really complain, but it would be understandable if he did.

Sometimes it can feel like the older generations are shafting the younger ones. Social Security? Current retirees paid in much less than they will get back. We pay in and pray to get 70% back. Previous generations could expect some level of economic growth or that if you worked hard, went to college, and acquired useful skills, you would get a job and be successful. That is how it worked. But now it’s not like that and everyone questions why the young people are mad…

 

[nathan_oc]

I’m glad someone stepped up and actually acknowledged how bad things truly are right now. Thank you,** Alan55**.

Since when does wanting to be able to afford to eat make you a Communist?

From each according to his ability, to each according to his need. That sounds about right. It’s how you want to pay for your needs that make you Communist or not. If you want to take from the rich then yes. I like what Herman Cain said
Don’t blame Wall Street, don’t blame the big banks, if you don’t have a job and you’re not rich, blame yourself! …]
These demonstrations…I honestly don‘t understand what they’re looking for…It is not someone’s fault because they succeeded, it is someone’s fault if they failed.”

 

[JimG]

Almost all of the demands coming from the OWS protesters are stupid. But there is a real problem.

It seems like a lot of people here are dismissing the plight of the recent college grads, for instance. A lot of college students did do all of the right things and are now underemployed. Had they graduated two years earlier, they would be doing much better. That is a fact. They got unlucky, due to the economy. Nobody should be saying that these people have no right to complain. They are worse off than the others who did exactly the same thing and there is no reason for that other than that they got unlucky…

I know people, in the sciences even, who have been looking and haven’t found ‘good’ jobs. One of my great friends go great grades, worked multiple jobs throughout school, captained an athletic team, and had a reasonable choice of major (he majored in a hard science). After school, he searched and searched for a job, but found nothing. So now he’s working for a liquor store half time and in a packaging plant half time. That is underemployment. He doesn’t really complain, but it would be understandable if he did.

Sometimes it can feel like the older generations are shafting the younger ones. Social Security? Current retirees paid in much less than they will get back. We pay in and pray to get 70% back. Previous generations could expect some level of economic growth or that if you worked hard, went to college, and acquired useful skills, you would get a job and be successful. That is how it worked. But now it’s not like that and everyone questions why the young people are mad…

Well yes, recent graduates are entering a dismal economy and a dismal job market. They are in a far worse situation than college grads of some previous decades.

That’s not to say that they didn’t make some bad decisions. I know of some grads who graduated a few years ago, at a far better time to enter the job market, and instead chose to stay in school for some courses which really did nothing for them. They in effect delayed their entry into the job market until the worst possible moment.

Student loans were uncommon when I was in college, so I can’t say a whole lot about them. But the more I’ve heard about them, the worse they seem. I think it might have been better for most students to have joined the military first, and used the GI bill, or to have gone to work for a time first, to avoid the student loan trap.

In any case, I don’t think that the protesters on Wall Street are representative of the recent generation of college grads. At least, I hope not. I think most of them have a more coherent idea of what they want to do than the amorphous and incoherent group gathering there.

I majored in English and knew for a fact that it didn’t prepare me for a job. My coworker majored in History and had the same thought. But we sure had good coffee break conversations. I ended up going into the USAF, and the GI bill didn’t even do me any good, since my college was already done. When I got out, I went to a commercial employment agency. The counselor said, “Now don’t think that just because you’ve got a degree that you’re going to get a great job right away.” Well sure, I knew that. I figured everybody knew that.

Still, I have to agree with you. Times are tough. And they are going to get tougher. I just don’t think forming street mobs helps much.

Oh, and I have to agree with you about social security and Medicare. The younger generation is getting the worst part of that deal. Those programs will have to change to survive.