Who are the protesters behind Occupy Wall Street–and what do they want?

[timotheos]

“The wealthiest 1 percent of Americans (minimum net worth $6 million) owned 62 percent of the nation’s business assets, 51 percent of stocks and 70 percent of bonds as of 2004, according to the latest data from the Federal Reserve Survey of Consumer Finances – which excludes the Forbes 400. That’s way up from 1989, when the wealthiest 1 percent owned 54 percent of business assets, 41 percent of stocks and 52 percent of bonds.”

commondreams.org/views06/0928-31.htm

Are you really worth 6 million dollars. Wow!

Now there you go, using your brain. Stop it. Yes there IS a difference between income and wealth, but you are looking behind the curtain and exposing the bait-and-switch that is going on – where the spinmasters get us all fired up and mad over millionaires and billionaires (wealth), to gain popular support for raising taxes on people working honestly in the upper middle class (income). The Warren Buffets and John Kerrys have great influence and use it to ensure that government will never touch their wealth. But there they are, cheerleading for the cause as seeming populists, knowing that the hammer will not fall on them but on high producing income-earners in the form of taxes instead. The super wealthy are satisfied, the average American voters are satisfied. Win-Win!

The top 1% in yearly income isn’t the same group as the top 1% in wealth. But one of these groups is trying to blur the distinction, and throw up the other as a decoy to save its own skin. Can you guess which one?

 

[Darryl1958]

Read a little bit more about the Wall Street Protest group on Jonah Goldberg’s article this morning - about their demands and what their ultimate goal is, at least according to a spokesman, Brian Phillips. Seems a bit extreme.

Sorting Out the ‘Extremists’

nationalreview.com/author/56454/latest

snippet:

Goldberg:

Some of those grievances are entirely valid, even bipartisan. Conservatives have been complaining about bailouts for “too big to fail” institutions for several years now. It’s how to remedy those grievances where the debate lies.

Conservative grievances do not aim to overthrow the government.

 

[bellasbane]

Now there you go, using your brain. Stop it. Yes there IS a difference between income and wealth, but you are looking behind the curtain and exposing the bait-and-switch that is going on – where the spinmasters get us all fired up and mad over millionaires and billionaires (wealth), to gain popular support for raising taxes on people working honestly in the upper middle class (income). The Warren Buffets and John Kerrys have great influence and use it to ensure that government will never touch their wealth. But there they are, cheerleading for the cause as seeming populists, knowing that the hammer will not fall on them but on high producing income-earners in the form of taxes instead. The super wealthy are satisfied, the average American voters are satisfied. Win-Win!

The top 1% in yearly income isn’t the same group as the top 1% in wealth. But one of these groups is trying to blur the distinction, and throw up the other as a decoy to save its own skin. Can you guess which one?

That is a very interesting point!

OK - so can you tell me what the miminum yearly income is of the top 1% of earners in the United States?

 

[bellasbane]

Conservative grievances do not aim to overthrow the government.

I’ve heard a lot of conservatives advocate for secession - which would essentially dismantle the federal government. How is that so different?

It’s all just rhetoric anyway - nobody really wants to overthrow the government. The only way that would happen is if people are disenfranchised and feel as if their fundamental rights as a citizen to choose their elected officials is being trampled upon

New State Rules Raising Hurdles at Voting Booth

Oops!

 

[rlg94086]

I’ve heard a lot of conservatives advocate for secession - which would essentially dismantle the federal government. How is that so different?

It’s all just rhetoric anyway - nobody really wants to overthrow the government. The only way that would happen is if people are disenfranchised and feel as if their fundamental rights as a citizen to choose their elected officials is being trampled upon

New State Rules Raising Hurdles at Voting Booth

Oops!

So, Democrats are the the ones who really want to overthrow the government?

 

[bellasbane]

Here are the demands. ridiculous.

Demand one: Restoration of the living wage. This demand can only be met by ending “Freetrade” by re-imposing trade tariffs on all imported goods entering the American market to level the playing field for domestic family farming and domestic manufacturing as most nations that are dumping cheap products onto the American market have radical wage and environmental regulation advantages. Another policy that must be instituted is raise the minimum wage to twenty dollars an hr.

Demand two: Institute a universal single payer healthcare system. To do this all private insurers must be banned from the healthcare market as their only effect on the health of patients is to take money away from doctors, nurses and hospitals preventing them from doing their jobs and hand that money to wall st. investors.

Demand three: Guaranteed living wage income regardless of employment.

Demand four: Free college education.

Demand five: Begin a fast track process to bring the fossil fuel economy to an end while at the same bringing the alternative energy economy up to energy demand.

Demand six: One trillion dollars in infrastructure (Water, Sewer, Rail, Roads and Bridges and Electrical Grid) spending now.

Demand seven: One trillion dollars in ecological restoration planting forests, reestablishing wetlands and the natural flow of river systems and decommissioning of all of America’s nuclear power plants.

Demand eight: Racial and gender equal rights amendment.

Demand nine: Open borders migration. anyone can travel anywhere to work and live.

Demand ten: Bring American elections up to international standards of a paper ballot precinct counted and recounted in front of an independent and party observers system.

Demand eleven: Immediate across the board debt forgiveness for all. Debt forgiveness of sovereign debt, commercial loans, home mortgages, home equity loans, credit card debt, student loans and personal loans now! All debt must be stricken from the “Books.” World Bank Loans to all Nations, Bank to Bank Debt and all Bonds and Margin Call Debt in the stock market including all Derivatives or Credit Default Swaps, all 65 trillion dollars of them must also be stricken from the “Books.” And I don’t mean debt that is in default, I mean all debt on the entire planet period.

**
Demand twelve**: Outlaw all credit reporting agencies.

**
Demand thirteen**: Allow all workers to sign a ballot at any time during a union organizing campaign or at any time that represents their yeah or nay to having a union represent them in collective bargaining or to form a union.

These demands will create so many jobs it will be completely impossible to fill them without an open borders policy.

Why don’t you give people the link to the website where these “demands” were originally posted? If you did, you would have to add this disclaimer from the administrators of the official “OccupyWallStreet” website:

Admin note: This is not an official list of demands. This is a forum post submitted by a single user and hyped by irresponsible news/commentary agencies like Fox News and Mises.org. This content was not published by the OccupyWallSt.org collective, nor was it ever proposed or agreed to on a consensus basis with the NYC General Assembly. There is NO official list of demands.

occupywallst.org/forum/proposed-list-of-demands-for-occupy-wall-st-moveme/

Why are you so quick to “drink the cool-aid” and then foist it upon others? The bigger this movement gets, the more skeptical you need to be of outrageous stuff like this.

 

[bellasbane]

So, Democrats are the the ones who really want to overthrow the government?

How often do you beat your wife?

 

[Scott_Lafrance]

Why don’t you give people the link to the website where these “demands” were originally posted? If you did, you would have to add this disclaimer from the administrators of the official “OccupyWallStreet” website:

Admin note: This is not an official list of demands. This is a forum post submitted by a single user and hyped by irresponsible news/commentary agencies like Fox News and Mises.org. This content was not published by the OccupyWallSt.org collective, nor was it ever proposed or agreed to on a consensus basis with the NYC General Assembly. There is NO official list of demands.

occupywallst.org/forum/proposed-list-of-demands-for-occupy-wall-st-moveme/

Why are you so quick to “drink the cool-aid” and then foist it upon others? The bigger this movement gets, the more skeptical you need to be of outrageous stuff like this.

I checked Mises.org and can’t find anything like what you are referencing. I’ll just assume that you have as much antipathy towards libertarians as you do conservatives.

 

[bellasbane]

I checked Mises.org and can’t find anything like what you are referencing. I’ll just assume that you have as much antipathy towards libertarians as you do conservatives.

mises.org/Community/forums/t/26459.aspx

I am glad to see it is in the forums and and not official post of the website. It seems as if false information is being perpetuated on the Mises.org forums as it is on CAF as well.

Defend Mises.org, but don’t accuse me. I quoted what was posted by the admin of the OWS website - to make the point that the demands were spurious.

 

[timotheos]

That is a very interesting point!

OK - so can you tell me what the miminum yearly income is of the top 1% of earners in the United States?

Can’t find the exact number. But Wiki says the cutoff of $250,000 is at the top 1.5% of American households, and figuring that the majority of this group is at the base of the pyramid with relatively few at the tip, I would guess the 1% cutoff is about $300,000.

There’s probably a lot of ways to get into this group. Some appear to be the result of happenstance “good fortune” and being in the right place at the right time, but I suspect most are the result of a lot of hard work and sacrifice with both spouses working. I don’t care anymore, myself. What’s the point if people ultimately hate you for it?

 

[bbarrick8383]

I’ve heard a lot of conservatives advocate for secession - which would essentially dismantle the federal government. How is that so different?

It’s all just rhetoric anyway - nobody really wants to overthrow the government. The only way that would happen is if people are disenfranchised and feel as if their fundamental rights as a citizen to choose their elected officials is being trampled upon

New State Rules Raising Hurdles at Voting Booth

Oops!

No, I would like the ability to secede as another check against the Federal government. If there was a secession, I would like to see the Federal government remain in place so it can continue to ruin what remains of the rest of the country that did not secede. Then maybe form a new union with a revised constitution that clearly stated the Federal governments role and provided more security to the people from liberals who wished to tweak things here and there through their own interpretations.

 

[Stjudeprayforus]

Washington times:

washingtontimes.com/blog/watercooler/2011/oct/3/picket-occupy-wall-street-protesters-post-manifest/

Here is more ridiculous proposed demands.
coupmedia.org/occupywallstreet/occupy-wall-street-official-demands-2009

 

[bellasbane]

Can’t find the exact number. But Wiki says the cutoff of $250,000 is at the top 1.5% of American households, and figuring that the majority of this group is at the base of the pyramid with relatively few at the tip, I would guess the 1% cutoff is about $300,000.

There’s probably a lot of ways to get into this group. Some appear to be the result of happenstance “good fortune” and being in the right place at the right time, but I suspect most are the result of a lot of hard work and sacrifice with both spouses working. I don’t care anymore, myself. What’s the point if people ultimately hate you for it?

I don’t think folks hate people who earn $300,000 a year. You were right about the way the “problem” and the “remedy” are being presented:

• The Problem = The wealth gap in the United States puts too much power in the hands of too few people.
• The Solution = Raise taxes on the top 1% of earners.

So how do we fix the problem? It seems to me that we have to find ways to neutralize the role of money in politics - but the Citizens United decision does just the opposite.

One place we can start it to keep open these channels of direct discourse and remember to always be charitable. I learn a lot from the people I disagree with (I’m not talking about you!), but I sometimes think they don’t equally appreciate the point of view that I bring to the table.

 

[Stjudeprayforus]

Here’s this guy… yelling the banks took his parents home…

youtube.com/watch?v=yZZ710w6GXI&feature=player_embedded

but it turns out…

*Robert Stephens graduated from Carleton College (average cost: $42,942/year) in 2010 and now studies law at The George Washington University Law School (average cost: $70,449/year). His father has a Ph.D. and two master’s degrees; his mother also has a master’s degree. Only in America could a kid have been blessed with so much… and only in America could he still claim to be a victim. America’s capitalist society has apparently leveled a grave injustice against his family and Robert will not stand for it.

Phone inquiries into the county property records & taxpayer services office reveal that the Stephens family home is not and never has been in foreclosure, that property taxes had been paid in full this year and the remaining balance on their mortgage for the half-million dollar home is less than one year’s worth of tuition+fees at their son’s law school.*

• The nail in this empty protest‘s coffin is a delightful phone conversation I just had with Robert’s mother, Marquita, where she admitted Chase Bank indeed was not “taking” their home from them. Instead, due to a recent “reduction in income,” they’ve decided to hold a “short sale.”*

So basically… the protester parents are the one stealing from the bank. The same bank that is in the business to lend money and get it back. I guess a family with 3 masters degrees and a PHD is too dumb to know that signing for a mortgage was a contract that should be honored.

 

[rlg94086]

How often do you beat your wife?

Well, you posted an article about the Democrats complaining about voter disenfranchisement, after stating that “nobody really wants to overthrow the government. The only way that would happen is if people are disenfranchised and feel as if their fundamental rights as a citizen to choose their elected officials is being trampled upon…”

It was a logical conclusion.

Perhaps, you don’t read your own posts?

 

[Stjudeprayforus]

Oh how lovely…

Stinking up Wall Street: Protesters accused of living in filth as shocking pictures show one demonstrator defecating on a POLICE CAR

Read more: dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2046586/Occupy-Wall-Street-Shocking-photos-protester-defecating-POLICE-CAR.html#ixzz1aDpKCwVJ

 

[Maso]

Dear Catholic friends.

The American way of life is soon about to crumble. We have seen this before in the failing of the Roman empire, so you have in your archives an accurate record of what to expect this time around.

The socialogical cycle is the same. First you have great prosperity, and lazieness leading to complacency and that leads up to decadance, then to depravity and then the barberians come in and ravage the place.

There’s nothing you can do, so just get back into your catacombs and pray there until the dust settles.

 

[Darryl1958]

I’ve heard a lot of conservatives advocate for secession - which would essentially dismantle the federal government. How is that so different?

 

[bellasbane]

No, I would like the ability to secede as another check against the Federal government. If there was a secession, I would like to see the Federal government remain in place so it can continue to ruin what remains of the rest of the country that did not secede. Then maybe form a new union with a revised constitution that clearly stated the Federal governments role and provided more security to the people from liberals who wished to tweak things here and there through their own interpretations.

Well, that sounds like a revolution to me! But honestly, would you really do it or is it mostly wishful thinking?

From what I know about you from reading your other posts, you work hard & do your best to take care of your family. You never mention belonging to an organization or anything that is actively working towards secession - so I am assuming you are not actively working toward it at the present time.

What tipped the Southern States over the edge after the election of 1860 was the fact that their voice was no longer being heard in government. Lincoln won election without the support of a single southern state - and the census of 1860 meant that southern states would no longer have a special privilege in House of Representatives.

Would it make you angry if you were denied the right to vote in the 2012 election? What if you got to the polling place and were literally turned away? I don’t know how people will react when that happens in the 2012 election. There is a lot of anger in the country, it could be bad.

 

[bbarrick8383]

Well, that sounds like a revolution to me! But honestly, would you really do it or is it mostly wishful thinking?

Would I advocate for it in our present situation, most definitely, but it’s not an option any state is going to take serious so I don’t bother. I wouldn’t even really want it to follow through, but used as a negotiating tactic to keep people like Obama’s beliefs from intruding into our lives.

From what I know about you from reading your other posts, you work hard & do your best to take care of your family. You never mention belonging to an organization or anything that is actively working towards secession - so I am assuming you are not actively working toward it at the present time.

No, I’m not a member of any organization advocating for it. Very observant though, thank you.

What tipped the Southern States over the edge after the election of 1860 was the fact that their voice was no longer being heard in government. Lincoln won election without the support of a single southern state - and the census of 1860 meant that southern states would no longer have a special privilege in House of Representatives.

There still is such a difference in the two parts of the country. I’ve lived on the east coast and had a college educated VP of where I worked there ask me where Oklahoma was. Most people reacted to me as if I were from Australia or Europe with my southern draw. I didn’t mind though, most of them were friendly, but the lifestyles and beliefs are way way different.

Would it make you angry if you were denied the right to vote in the 2012 election? What if you got to the polling place and were literally turned away? I don’t know how people will react when that happens in the 2012 election. There is a lot of anger in the country, it could be bad.

Of course it would. And I agree, I remember last election a lady fighting a man in a nursing home after he witnessed her changing his vote on the ballot. I don’t see it getting better this election.