Never would have thought it. Educated Scandinavians speak excellent English. I have been speaking English for six decades, and I still have to stop and think about double consonants — it’s a mental block with me. Thank God for spell check!
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M
Maximian
Guest
Indeed I did…
Post one of those pictures and I’ll give $20 to the next homeless person I see in the parking lot at Walmart. No joke. Keeping one’s word used to be the measure of a man. Some traditions are worth keeping.HomeschoolDad:
Indeed I did…
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Montrose
Guest
One of the favourites is Cardinal Tagle from the Philippines. He is fluent in Tagalog, English and Italian.
He is also proficient in reading Spanish, French, and Latin.
He is also proficient in reading Spanish, French, and Latin.
T
Trader
Guest
Quite a few years ago Francis Cardinal Arinze of Nigeria celebrated mass in our parish on his birthday, November 1. There was talk then that he might be the next Pope. Just in case, our bishop had busloads of kids brought in from local schools to make sure the cathedral was packed. Cardinal Arinze is now 87 and he is not Pope; he is retired. The Holy Spirit might have at least a little chuckle about all the speculation about where He will lead a church full of sinners.
Sure, the next Pope might be from Africa. I was working on the south side of Chicago when one of my Polish co-workers announced that a Polish cardinal had been elected Pope. Nobody, not even the other Polish people at work believed him. I am even old enough to remember when the elderly Cardinal Roncali was elected. All the smart commentators said John XXIII would be a transitional figure who would change nothing. God does work in strange ways.
A
Anesti33
Guest
Well, pundits do enjoy making predictions, and nobody really cares if those predictions are accurate or not, when it comes to conclaves, but it still sells papers and webpage hits.
I think the most useful punditry comes after a new Pope is elected, to research the man’s background and tell us just what manner of papacy he might have, and the reasons he might have been elected instead of other more likely papabile.
I know I had a hard time in 2013, because I had spent a lot of time studying bishops and cardinals, and yet when Francis came out on the loggia, I was mystified. I didn’t know what to think. All I did was ask the Mexican Carmelite sisters if they thought this was a good sign to have an Argentine pope, they smiled and nodded!
I think the most useful punditry comes after a new Pope is elected, to research the man’s background and tell us just what manner of papacy he might have, and the reasons he might have been elected instead of other more likely papabile.
I know I had a hard time in 2013, because I had spent a lot of time studying bishops and cardinals, and yet when Francis came out on the loggia, I was mystified. I didn’t know what to think. All I did was ask the Mexican Carmelite sisters if they thought this was a good sign to have an Argentine pope, they smiled and nodded!
M
Maximian
Guest
Unfortunately they made me promise not to.
I was interested to see that they all had “working cassocks” - pretty tatty, which shows they are not work-shy. A couple of years ago I visited their chapel in Brussels, which they were renovating. Again, priests in cassocks and safety hats. The “chapel” in Brussels looks more like a small Cathedral. It was Belgium’s national shrine right in the heart of the capital but its congregation had dwindled and the Archdiocese sold it off. It needed total repairs which the SSPX has done brilliantly.
I was interested to see that they all had “working cassocks” - pretty tatty, which shows they are not work-shy. A couple of years ago I visited their chapel in Brussels, which they were renovating. Again, priests in cassocks and safety hats. The “chapel” in Brussels looks more like a small Cathedral. It was Belgium’s national shrine right in the heart of the capital but its congregation had dwindled and the Archdiocese sold it off. It needed total repairs which the SSPX has done brilliantly.
T
Trader
Guest
I also did not know any cardinals from Argentina. At the moment the election of the new Pope was announced as Jorge, my immediate thought was Cardinal George of Chicago. I have met him, and it seemed perfectly logical that we would eventually have an American Pope. A South American Pope is as close as we have ever come.
I am a long-time member of a parish that has had many priests from Nigeria, Uganda, Kenya, India, and Sri Lanka.serve us while they study theology or canon law at Notre Dame. All of them have been wonderful men, and at least one of them is now a bishop. I am reminded every week that our church is catholic(universal), and that Jesus commanded his apostles to make disciples of every nation. Today, priests from many nations are trying to make disciples of us.
I’ll make sure some homeless person gets that $20 anyway. (Not good to talk about one’s almsgiving, but I was the one who got all this started, with my trash talk about “giving a $20 bill”.)
I didn’t know there was such a thing as “working cassocks”.
I will “mute” this particular part of the discussion now, as I don’t want to go “off-topic”, which is disliked by some in these forums.
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Maximian
Guest
Im not sure a working cassock is an official garment. I suspect it’s a bit like an old pair of trousers you keep for gardening only.
But the point is, an SSPX priest is NEVER seen not wearing a cassock.
But the point is, an SSPX priest is NEVER seen not wearing a cassock.
Z
Zzyzx_Road
Guest
Cardinal Bergoglio was not that unknown. He did finish second to Ratzinger in the 2005 conclave on all four ballots per this Wikipedia article.
It may just be that he wasn’t well known internationally, especially in the English speaking countries as he is not fluent in English.
Looking at who got votes in 2013, there seems to be less information, but sources allege that Scola, Ouellet and to a lesser extent, Scherer got votes.
As far as I’m concerned, that is as clear as mud. So no speculation here. I’ll only go so far as to say an American pope is unlikely.
It may just be that he wasn’t well known internationally, especially in the English speaking countries as he is not fluent in English.
Looking at who got votes in 2013, there seems to be less information, but sources allege that Scola, Ouellet and to a lesser extent, Scherer got votes.
As far as I’m concerned, that is as clear as mud. So no speculation here. I’ll only go so far as to say an American pope is unlikely.
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Diaconia
Guest
No, the Holy Spirit does not choose the Pope. The cardinal electors do.
Benedict XVI spoke about this himself, saying that bad choices have been made before in choosing the Pope.
We do pray the Holy Spirit informs the cardinal electors.
Deacon Christopher
Benedict XVI spoke about this himself, saying that bad choices have been made before in choosing the Pope.
Some of the popes “chosen” have been bad choices, eg Medici, Borghese, Borgia. Since God the Holy Spirit cannot error, He does not choose the Pope.
We do pray the Holy Spirit informs the cardinal electors.
Deacon Christopher
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mdgspencer
Guest
.
I expect the next Pope will be quite different. I expect they will respond to some miscues from the present Pope. For example, the agreement of the Vatican with the Chinese government seems a serious mistake. There are some other things too that could be named…
However, I expect speculation on who will be the next Pope will be a futile effort. I recall that before Pope John Paul II was elected there had been much speculation in the media about who would be the next Pope. A prominent news magazine listed a number of Cardinals providing their photos saying these were top candidates for the next Pope. Pope John Paul wasn’t among them. Nor was he identified in other news sources as such a candidate, naming others instead. I was quite amused by this.
I expect a notably worthy Pope.
Man proposed, God disposes.
I expect the next Pope will be quite different. I expect they will respond to some miscues from the present Pope. For example, the agreement of the Vatican with the Chinese government seems a serious mistake. There are some other things too that could be named…
However, I expect speculation on who will be the next Pope will be a futile effort. I recall that before Pope John Paul II was elected there had been much speculation in the media about who would be the next Pope. A prominent news magazine listed a number of Cardinals providing their photos saying these were top candidates for the next Pope. Pope John Paul wasn’t among them. Nor was he identified in other news sources as such a candidate, naming others instead. I was quite amused by this.
I expect a notably worthy Pope.
Man proposed, God disposes.
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AlbMagno
Guest
Respectfully, I think too many times the comments of Benedict XVI about papal election and the Holy Spirit have been treated as dogma, when they are not so.
More so, treating other controversial Popes as just “bad choices” seems to be a simplistic way of looking at a Pontificate… I remember some posters in CAF who said that even “bad Popes” were put by the Holy Spirit to teach us something, perhaps not personally, but magisterially.
Let’s remember that, if one reads the Papal Bulls and declarations since antiquity, not a single one contains serious dogmatic contradiction, even the ones of the “bad Popes”.
More so, treating other controversial Popes as just “bad choices” seems to be a simplistic way of looking at a Pontificate… I remember some posters in CAF who said that even “bad Popes” were put by the Holy Spirit to teach us something, perhaps not personally, but magisterially.
Let’s remember that, if one reads the Papal Bulls and declarations since antiquity, not a single one contains serious dogmatic contradiction, even the ones of the “bad Popes”.
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BT3241
Guest
St Malachi prophesy says he is the last and believe it or not there is only one spot left for a popes picture - yes they can add a new wall. Lets see what happens. The Irish saint predicted it.
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felsguy
Guest
I had to chuckle about a shortlist of 18. Sounds like he can pick the winner of a horse race everytime
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Montrose
Guest
The St Malachi prophecies are fake.
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Vouthon
Guest
Out of respect for the reigning occupant of the chair of St. Peter, I prefer to refrain from speculating on such matters.
I am very pleased with the pontificate of Francis, also, so I have no inclination to look ahead just now to the days after his shepherding of the flock comes to an end.
With that being said, in light of the precedent set in 2013 by Benedict’s “abdication” of the Petrine office, the field of hypothesizing future papabili before the announcement of a conclave is no longer fraught with the “bad taste” it once was.
So, in a purely academic sense, if a conclave were to be called now in 2020, I would expect Cardinals Pietro Parolin, Matteo Zuppi and Luis Antonio Tagle to be the frontrunners.
Even though people often quote that phrase, “he who goes into a conclave the pope comes out a cardinal”, the reality is that leading contenders typically do become Pope.
Pius XII, Paul VI and Benedict XVI were each the respective frontrunners in their time. Even John Paul II, though his non-Italian heritage was a surprise, had been a known quantity among his fellow Cardinals after delivering a famous Lenten address in 1976. So Paul VI had already “upped” his standing in the College.
Our present holy father, Pope Francis, had been the runner up in the 2005 conclave that elected Benedict. As early as 2002, then Cardinal Bergoglio had been cited by the Vaticanista Sandro Magister as a future Pontiff:
http://chiesa.espresso.repubblica.it/articolo/6893&eng=y.html
So, the moral of this mini-history tour is that if Cardinal Tagle is currently being touted as the most papabile and is being given appointment after appointment by Pope Francis (as he is with one Vatican office after another), it is not a bad bet to anticipate that he may well follow the trajectory of Pope Paul VI: the candidate par excellence for the Papacy who happens to ultimately ascend “the throne” in due course.
And really, he reminds me of Paul VI in terms of his impeccable and growing pedigree of credentials: he is the President of Caritas International, Prefect of the Congregation for the Evangelization of Peoples and President of the Catholic Biblical Federation. There are few of his brother Cardinals who can match that resume.
Whether he becomes pope or not one day, he will certainly be a big hitter at the next conclave and a very powerful figure in the Vatican for a long time to come (his being 63 years old).
I am very pleased with the pontificate of Francis, also, so I have no inclination to look ahead just now to the days after his shepherding of the flock comes to an end.
With that being said, in light of the precedent set in 2013 by Benedict’s “abdication” of the Petrine office, the field of hypothesizing future papabili before the announcement of a conclave is no longer fraught with the “bad taste” it once was.
So, in a purely academic sense, if a conclave were to be called now in 2020, I would expect Cardinals Pietro Parolin, Matteo Zuppi and Luis Antonio Tagle to be the frontrunners.
Even though people often quote that phrase, “he who goes into a conclave the pope comes out a cardinal”, the reality is that leading contenders typically do become Pope.
Pius XII, Paul VI and Benedict XVI were each the respective frontrunners in their time. Even John Paul II, though his non-Italian heritage was a surprise, had been a known quantity among his fellow Cardinals after delivering a famous Lenten address in 1976. So Paul VI had already “upped” his standing in the College.
Our present holy father, Pope Francis, had been the runner up in the 2005 conclave that elected Benedict. As early as 2002, then Cardinal Bergoglio had been cited by the Vaticanista Sandro Magister as a future Pontiff:
http://chiesa.espresso.repubblica.it/articolo/6893&eng=y.html
That didn’t happen in 2005 but in 2013 Bergoglio did become the Supreme Pontiff.
So, the moral of this mini-history tour is that if Cardinal Tagle is currently being touted as the most papabile and is being given appointment after appointment by Pope Francis (as he is with one Vatican office after another), it is not a bad bet to anticipate that he may well follow the trajectory of Pope Paul VI: the candidate par excellence for the Papacy who happens to ultimately ascend “the throne” in due course.
And really, he reminds me of Paul VI in terms of his impeccable and growing pedigree of credentials: he is the President of Caritas International, Prefect of the Congregation for the Evangelization of Peoples and President of the Catholic Biblical Federation. There are few of his brother Cardinals who can match that resume.
Whether he becomes pope or not one day, he will certainly be a big hitter at the next conclave and a very powerful figure in the Vatican for a long time to come (his being 63 years old).
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Vouthon
Guest
Indeed, I think lay commentators following the secular media have always undestimated the extent to which Francis was the leading papabile candidate from 2002 onwards, in professional Vaticanista circles.
See this video from CNN in 2013, during the conclave, with Vaticanista John Allen where he discusses the potential of Cardinal Bergoglio being the ideal compromise candidate and a retired cardinal saying back then, “don’t count him out”.
And it happened, Bergoglio was elected as the consensus candidate.
In 2005 he was, according to all the credible reports, the only viable contendor to Benedict in each ballot - and that was quite something, given that Ratzinger was a hegemon in the Vatican under JPII; so to have anyone seriously rivalling his candidacy that year was an achievement.
By 2013, he slipped off the radar of the mainstream Italian and thus world media (but not the Vaticanistas) only because many assumed he’d gotten too old and that his time had passed.
But in cardinalate circles, Bergoglio was still a clerical superstar (on account of his reputation for eschewing ostentation, living in a humble apartment rather than the assigned Bishop’s house, taking the bus to Mass, his advocacy for the poor and biting street preaching etc.) and so when it came to finding a consensus candidate, the various camps quickly coalesced around him, making the 2013 conclave very short.
This idea that the College has a tendency to select on the spur “dark horses” is an urban myth. I cannot think of one Pontiff since Vatican II who was not at least a major papabile candidate and the actual historical trend has been for the leading contendor to take the throne.
Also, your right that in addition to the electors who backed his candidacy from the 2005 and 2013 conclaves, Francis has so far appointed 67 of the cardinal electors, versus 42 by Pope Benedict XVI and 19 by Pope John Paul II.
Thus, the notion that the College would elect someone known to be publicly associated with criticism of the Francis pontificate is - to put it mildly - “for the birds”.
Even though Francis will likely not have a pontificate as long as John Paul II, his influence is probably going to extend for quite some time in my humble assessment.
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UGCC
Guest
Cardinal Sarah would be excellent.
The college has been so stacked with Pope Francis ’ men, however, I should Imagine we’ll see someone who’s a carbon copy. That could be any one of many, but Cardinal Tagle has definitely been maneuvered into pole position.
Whoever it is will probably take the name Francis 2nd and his predecessor will be declared a saint within 5yrs.
I know everyone seems to think the election is a spontaneous act of the Spirit, but it’s actually a lot of power-brokering and lobbying.
Look at the lunches in Switzerland, and the back-room meetings that took place to elect Francis.
It’s always been that way.
The college has been so stacked with Pope Francis ’ men, however, I should Imagine we’ll see someone who’s a carbon copy. That could be any one of many, but Cardinal Tagle has definitely been maneuvered into pole position.
Whoever it is will probably take the name Francis 2nd and his predecessor will be declared a saint within 5yrs.
I know everyone seems to think the election is a spontaneous act of the Spirit, but it’s actually a lot of power-brokering and lobbying.
Look at the lunches in Switzerland, and the back-room meetings that took place to elect Francis.
It’s always been that way.
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