Who else is sick and tired of people on this board attacking the Church/the Mass?

[Friar_David_O.Carm]

Who else out there is tired of the self-proclaimed “Traditionalists” out there who are attacking the Church and the Mass while supporting schismatic groups.

Who deny the validity of the Mass and seem to twist Church teaching support their distortions?

Who keep bringing up issues that have been discussed and posting links to pictures and news articles that are years old.

Who point to abuses and act like those abuses are the norm and welcomed while acting that someone the Trad Latin Mass is magically immune from abuse.

 

[rcn]

When the forums were having so many technical problems, CA told me that the reason the forums appeared so “unmoderated” was that the moderators were having technical problems too.

Now that things seem to be running smoothly again, it seems to me that the moderators should be able to do their job once again. The moderator’s name is in a sticky thread… let her know your opinion.

 

[Church_Militant]

Now this one I’m afraid I have to weigh in on. As I’ve said before in another Mass thread, it’s long past time to knock off all this whinin’ and cryin’ and get on with the work of God. The NO is here to stay and TLM is fine, but stop w/all the back and forth and BE CATHOLICS. (Yes, I realize that all this debate and contention is almost as much Catholic as holy water, but c’mon…get OVER it for the love of God!)

There is so much work that needs doing and none of this serves those ends od works of mercy so far as I can tell.

Let’s get the word out as we were commanded to do by Our Lord.
PAX vobiscum,

 

[dumspirospero]

I am a traditionalist…and I will resign this board and issue the biggest apology if you can go back through all of my 2,000+ post and find where I have once supported a schismatic group…I never have and I have condemned their actions…

All Masses are capable of having abuses in the them…I have never said otherwise…I have always said that I PREFER the TLM…but I also love the Novus Ordo…the only difference is that I have never seen people chewing gum, cutting up in the pews, reading road maps, etc in the TLM as I have in the NO…granted, I know that doesn’t go on everywhere, but I sure have the right to choose on Mass over the other, and if I do so without bashing the other side in the process…I expect people to leave me alone because I have caused no one harm…

The problem with some CAtholics today is that they automatically think you support schism because you go to an Indult TLM…they believe you secretly support schism…which may be the case with some people…but they are a small, small minority…and to lump all of us together is not appropriate.

I don’t support any bashing of any types of people, unless they are Democrats…Just kidding…that was a joke for real.

Seriously though…I don’t understand why everyone feels the need to bash everyone…the same thing takes place at both Masses…the Most Holy Sacrafice is made and we receive the wonderful gift of the Eucharist…so I don’t really see the big deal if someone prefers Latin over the vernacular or vice-versa.

ByzCath:

Who else out there is tired of the self-proclaimed “Traditionalists” out there who are attacking the Church and the Mass while supporting schismatic groups.

Who deny the validity of the Mass and seem to twist Church teaching support their distortions?

Who keep bringing up issues that have been discussed and posting links to pictures and news articles that are years old.

Who point to abuses and act like those abuses are the norm and welcomed while acting that someone the Trad Latin Mass is magically immune from abuse.

 

[Friar_David_O.Carm]

dumspirospero:

I am a traditionalist…and I will resign this board and issue the biggest apology if you can go back through all of my 2,000+ post and find where I have once supported a schismatic group…I never have and I have condemned their actions…

I never did place you in that group.

But you seem to place me in the liberal/non-traditionalist group.

What I find troubling though, is you and the others who share your view are silent where those who do support schismatic groups and deny the Church and the validity of the Mass are posting. You do not seem to try to refute their arguments all that much.

 

[dumspirospero]

I don’t participate in threads like that because I thought the forum rules prohibited discussing certain topics with the threat of banning those that mention the names of certain groups and their beliefs…I am not about to get into a discussion that will get me banned talking about people we all know are schismatics and have deeply troubling views that need to be changed so that they can once again be in full communion with the Church…it is like beating a dead horse to death.

ByzCath:

I never did place you in that group.

But you seem to place me in the liberal/non-traditionalist group.

What I find troubling though, is you and the others who share your view are silent where those who do support schismatic groups and deny the Church and the validity of the Mass are posting. You do not seem to try to refute their arguments all that much.

 

[Friar_David_O.Carm]

dumspirospero:

I don’t participate in threads like that because I thought the forum rules prohibited discussing certain topics with the threat of banning those that mention the names of certain groups and their beliefs…I am not about to get into a discussion that will get me banned talking about people we all know are schismatics and have deeply troubling views that need to be changed so that they can once again be in full communion with the Church…it is like beating a dead horse to death.

I can understand that but if no one responds to them and their threads are left standing then it appears to others that everyone agrees with them and that they are speaking the truth.

We must refute error or the threads need to be removed. To let the error stand in full view with out anyone saying anything grants it approval. I think that you and others like you, who have a preferance for the TLM but upholding all the Church Teaches would be an even greater voice against those who are not like you.

As the quote from Edmund Burke in my signature says.

 

[dumspirospero]

I hear ya ByzCath and I see where you are coming from…I will try to be active in those threads from now on…do something for me…take a look at the thread I started about bashing traditionalist and you will see something troubling…look at the Poll…in all the subsequent threads started by you and others regarding bashing the NO or the Church…everyone including myself responded that they are sick and tired of people bashing eachother on these topics…now if you look at the poll in which I asked if people were tired of others bashing traditionalist, 5 people responded NO…that is very troubling to me…for some reason, over half of the people that responded to that poll feel it is ok to bash traditional Catholics…why is that? THis is the type of issues we need to work on…we need unity…don’t you all agree?

ByzCath:

I can understand that but if no one responds to them and their threads are left standing then it appears to others that everyone agrees with them and that they are speaking the truth.

We must refute error or the threads need to be removed. To let the error stand in full view with out anyone saying anything grants it approval. I think that you and others like you, who have a preferance for the TLM but upholding all the Church Teaches would be an even greater voice against those who are not like you.

As the quote from Edmund Burke in my signature says.

 

[jpjd]

I have been hesitant to post replies to any of the threads on this board. I’m afraid my participation would imply my agreement with the Catholic bashing atmosphere that goes on here.

May I remind you of the Gospel reading for Monday, February 21? (Luke 6:36-38)

“Be merciful, just as your Father is merciful. Stop judging and you will not be judged. Stop condemning and you will not be condemned. Forgive and you will be forgiven. Give and gifts will be given to you: a good measure, packed together, shaken down, and overflowing, will be poured into your lap. For the measure with which you measure will in return be measured out to you.”

 

[Almeria]

I’ve honestly been avoiding those threads as well. I’ll try to jump in on them. Gives me more practice with research and debating.

 

[pnewton]

ByzCath:

I can understand that but if no one responds to them and their threads are left standing then it appears to others that everyone agrees with them and that they are speaking the truth.

I know where you are going with this question. I, too, am there. However I have found it best to back off sometimes when my emotions run to hot. If I lose focus and respond with too much anger, instead of making sound reason, I am the one who comes across sounding like uncharitable wacko.

I know there are many fine Catholics on this board who stylize themselves as traditional Catholics, who do not support these questionable groups. Please join in when you see others drift into extremism. Those of us who are orthodox in the faith, but not associated with traditional movements, must have no problem speaking up for the proper celebration of the Mass, when threatened by extremism from feminism, humanism or any other ism.

To quote that great traditional Catholic song, “We are the body of Christ.” (Just kidding) How about I Cor. 12th chapter then.

 

[Nota_Bene]

I certainly am, however I am beginning to wonder if I shouldn’t show more charity for some of those making the outrageous claims given their increasingly obvious shortcomings?

If you begin to look carefully at the posts, it seems more and more clear that those making the erroneous posts about the SSPX, the nomative Mass, the Pope of Rome, etc. are doing so from a foundation of both limited education and poor catechesis.

You have made it clear for example that you enjoy the “tlm” and that you enjoy solemnity in the Mass. You have also made it clear that you detest liturgical abuses. Your position appears to be forged though education and more specifically, good Catholic catechesis.

The tenor of those other posts however smack strongly of “a little knowlege can be a dangerous thing.” I see views and opinions shaped not by the Catholic Church, but from information spewed by mediums like the sspx and the latin mass magazine.

I also see a clear inability to think in a critical manner from those same posters – but that goes back to education, and a lack thereof. Yes, at first I though these outrageous postings were a product of semantics and differing ideals. Now I see the real culpret – ignorance.

 

[pnewton]

rcn:

Now that things seem to be running smoothly again, it seems to me that the moderators should be able to do their job once again. The moderator’s name is in a sticky thread… let her know your opinion.

I have always found the boards pretty well moderated. I recommend if anyone ever feels like something needs reporting, make sure you are specific and the rules are really being violated.

 

[Binney]

I am not sure what exactly you don’t want to hear. The fact is we are supposed to learn from history and communication. People like you suppress freedom. You might as well sign off for good if you don’t want to try and hear the truth of the matter.

 

[VincentO]

I always get the feeling at anyone inquiring at these boards must get the feeling we’re a church divided.

I too am always hesitant to post my opinion on some threads as I know it will result in a bashing - and I’d say that my opinion doesn’t constitute. anything earth shattering or strongly biased one way or the other.

I think we sometimes forget who we believe knows best. I guess what’s sometimes missing is a little humility.

Anyway…please don’t bash me!

Peace

Vince

 

[EddieArent]

Binney:

I am not sure what exactly you don’t want to hear. The fact is we are supposed to learn from history and communication. People like you suppress freedom. You might as well sign off for good if you don’t want to try and hear the truth of the matter.

Some times the truth hurts, and well…it’s showing here.

 

[Darrel]

Let the debates continue it’s what makes this forum an interesting place to frequent. If everyone is holding back there opinions this place will become boring and be less of a thriving community.

One persons bashing is another persons interesting reading or educational material. This is a thriving Christian community on the internet. If somebody gets out of hand a moderator will handle it. Confrontation is fine as long as there are no personal attacks it’s in all in bounds. This a great forum. It may get tiring for some people to see the issues hashed out 10 times but with 18000 plus members there is a ton of great information going out here. People like me who are new stand to learn alot here.

-D

 

[WanderAimlessly]

dumspirospero:

I am a traditionalist…and I will resign this board and issue the biggest apology if you can go back through all of my 2,000+ post and find where I have once supported a schismatic group…I never have and I have condemned their actions…

You may be a traditionalist, but you are definitely not part of the RadTrads that seem to be comming out of the woodwork. It is those so-called “traditionalists” that seem to be a problem due to their complete rejection of Vatical II.

PF

 

[Asimis]

ByzCath:

Who else out there is tired of the self-proclaimed “Traditionalists” out there who are attacking the Church and the Mass while supporting schismatic groups.

I am not one of those, but I am a “traditionalist” in the sense that I obey The Church not heretical Churchmen. So, I do not attack the Church(I accept Vatican II as infallible and obey everything) neither do I join groups not in communion with Rome.

Who deny the validity of the Mass and seem to twist Church teaching support their distortions?

I do not deny the validity of the Mass when done according to the guidelines set by the Second Vatican Council, but I do deny the validity of the heretical NO Masses that are done these days. I stopped going to the NO of my parish because I think that the abuses that are done in it invalidate that Mass. So, I decided to go to a TM which is offered by a church in communion with Rome.

Who keep bringing up issues that have been discussed and posting links to pictures and news articles that are years old.

The “date” of an article or event has no relevance to the subject matter. It’s content however is another thing.

Who point to abuses and act like those abuses are the norm and welcomed while acting that someone the Trad Latin Mass is magically immune from abuse.

They may not be the norm…but I can tell you this much. Ever since the abuses started to creep in, the stats of The Church have been on decline and the infiltration of the priesthood and bishops has turned very liberal, so the distinction that I make is that of the heretical churchmen and The Church. The Second Vatican Council and the abuses done in spite of it. And it is those abuses which I openly “attack” and will continue to attack.

 

[bear06]

Asimis:

I am not one of those, but I am a “traditionalist” in the sense that I obey The Church not heretical Churchmen. So, I do not attack the Church(I accept Vatican II as infallible and obey everything) neither do I join groups not in communion with Rome.

I do not deny the validity of the Mass when done according to the guidelines set by the Second Vatican Council, but I do deny the validity of the heretical NO Masses that are done these days. I stopped going to the NO of my parish because I think that the abuses that are done in it invalidate that Mass. So, I decided to go to a TM which is offered by a church in communion with Rome.

The “date” of an article or event has no relevance to the subject matter. It’s content however is another thing.

They may not be the norm…but I can tell you this much. Ever since the abuses started to creep in, the stats of The Church have been on decline and the infiltration of the priesthood and bishops has turned very liberal, so the distinction that I make is that of the heretical churchmen and The Church. The Second Vatican Council and the abuses done in spite of it. And it is those abuses which I openly “attack” and will continue to attack.

See now? This is a completely resonable point of view.