Who here is getting tired of the same old same old?

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I guess I should have put “I didn’t railed, everyone else railed” lol

I am not special? Man here I though I was, well I guess I will keep looking where I will be special 😉

I didn’t know we had slap fight haha! It be awsome to have gun duels lol.
I like this one, but seldom use it

:hey_bud:
 
CONTINUED: Take away the heavy burden of my sins, O Thou that takest away the sins of the world, and healest the infirmities of men, and callest all that are weary and heavy laden to thyself and givest them rest; thou that camest not to call the righteous but sinners to repentance, cleanse thou me from all stain of body and soul and teach me to fulfill holiness in thy fear, that with the witness of my conscience pure, I may receive a portion of thy Holy Gifts, and be united to thy Holy Body and Precious Blood, and may have thee, with thy Father and Holy Spirit, dwelling and abiding in me. And grant, O Lord Jesus Christ, my God, that the partaking of thy precious and Life-giving Mysteries may not be to my condemnation, nor may not through the weakness of my soul and body be received unworthily; but grant that, even unto my last breath, I may partake of a portion of thy Holy Gifts without condemnation, unto the Communion of thy Holy Spirit, as a preparation for eternal Life and for a good defence at thy dread Judgement Seat; so that I, together with all thine elect, may also receive those incorruptible good things which thou hast prepared for them that love thee, O Lord; in whom thou art glorified forever. Amen.

Many of the prayers can be very long. many times the greek prayers are twice as long as the latin prayers, and the latin prayers are usually long enough. I don’t know why this is. The point of them is generally the same, much like the respective divine offices. I often think they could each use a little of what the other has, than would be somewhere in the middle, not too long, not too short, but right inbetween.
 
I guess I should have put “I didn’t railed, everyone else railed” lol

I am not special? Man here I though I was, well I guess I will keep looking where I will be special 😉

I didn’t know we had slap fight haha! It be awsome to have gun duels lol.
But how do we do a virtual 20 paces?🙂
 
I know I know!! But just mearly prooves my point. A lot of “emotions” are involved when ever we start a topic. I guess I am just not sensitive enough to them lol. For examply I understand that in some culture certain postures are a no no, but we are a western rite, and the Church should not need to give in to other cultures, but instead that culture should immerse itself into the Church. This is comming from a Hispanic.
I’ve been reading this thread and some posts are really interesting. This one struck me in particular. I’ll tell you why. Because I’m a Franciscan. Franciscans, Dominicans and Jesuits have a long history of blending culture and Catholicism. I guess my question is, why would you want us to stop something that we’ve been doing for 800 years?

I can give examples.

When the Franciscans went to China and to Japan, we put aside the habit and put on the dress of the local peasant. There is a very famous letter by St. Maximilian Kolbe, when he was the superior of the Franciscans in Japan. He wrote back to Poland to request more friars and he specifically tells them not to bring their habits, because that’s not how the local people dress and they don’t understand it.

When the Dominicans arrived in South America, they incorporated a lot of the art into their construction and language into catechesis and prayer life.

Francis of Assisi incorporated drama into the mass, that’s how we get the Christmas pageant and the live stations of the cross. That’s his creation, because the local people told stories through drama, not through preaching and books.

The Jesuits in North American incorporated Native American architecture into the chapels and buildings that they built among the indigenous people. They even created statues using that art form.

Franciscans dropped Gregorian chant during Francis’ lifetime, because the common man could not sing it. Francis would write a form of hymn called a Lauda, which was in Italian or in French. When the ordained friars celebrated mass, this is what the people sang. In Germany, they used hymns in German. Latin was used along with the local languages. The local languages were not excluded, nor were the music or the art and architecture.

When Mother Teresa asked for permission to found her new congregation the one thing that she insisted on was that it be Indian. They took many customs from the Hindus. The sari is a Hindu form of dress. The Missionary of Charity Brothers are not allowed to wear a habit or any kind of Christian symbol, because it’s not the way Indian men dress. They have always worn khaki pants, a white shirt and sandals. They kneel on the floor, but the way that they kneel is very different from that of other Latin religious. I tried it once and thought I would break my back. They go forward and their head almost touches the floor. It was very interesting, they were founded in 1946, and Mother Teresa decreed that their official language would be English. When asked why not Latin, she said that the Jesus wanted an Indian congregation and the two major languages of India were Hindi and English. She opted for English, so as not to offend the Muslims. Apparently, they did not speak Hindi. I believe that they speak Pakistani. I’m uncertain. I would not want to see them in a Western habit. Would you? All Western women that join them must wear the sari and learn the Indian postures for prayer and other religious functions. They do what we do when they’re with us, not when we go to their chapels. Then they expect us to get down on the floor like them. Mother would always look at the Westerners with a little grin when they could not bend over, because she was old and she could still do it.

When the Missionaries of the Poor arrived in Jamaica, they adopted a form of liturgical music that sounds like Calypso. The words are very beautiful as are the rhythms. But they are not European and have never been so.

It is part of Latin Catholic Tradition that Franciscans, Dominicans, Jesuits, Missionaries of Charity, Missionaries of the Poor and probably others have always incorporated local culture by Christianizing it. I’m remembering some of the churches in some parts of Spain which were built by Franciscans. They look like mosques. The local people were Christian and Muslim. In those days they were called Moors.

Even among the dominant European cultures there are practices among Catholics that are typically Polish, Spanish, French, German and so forth. I’m remembering those beautiful statues that the Spanish dress up in very regal clothing. That’s not universally Catholic. That’s very Spanish. One of the most beautiful ones that I remember seeing, while in Europe, was the Sorrowful Mother. She does not look like a peasant from Nazareth. She looks like a royal Spanish Señora. That was started by Franciscans in order to bring the local art into the liturgy of Good Friday. Today, no one thinks twice about it. Teresa of Avila introduced it into the Carmelites as well as singing Spanish hymns at mass along with Latin. In other words, The entrance might be in Latin and the Communion in Spanish. It made no difference to Teresa or the early Discalced Carmelites Friars who celebrated their masses.

I’m really curious whether you would now ask all of these groups to stop what they have been doing for hundreds of years, integrating local culture and Catholic customs? Is it fair to these groups? Is it even appropriate to as them to give up what has become part of Catholic Tradition? Would it not be better to allow each group to continue to do its work the way that it has always done it and to Christianize local culture rather than exclude it? I think it would be very sad to stop something that is part of the Church’s history.

Fraternally,

Br. JR, OSF 🙂
 
CONTINUED: Take away the heavy burden of my sins, O Thou that takest away the sins of the world, and healest the infirmities of men, and callest all that are weary and heavy laden to thyself and givest them rest; thou that camest not to call the righteous but sinners to repentance, cleanse thou me from all stain of body and soul and teach me to fulfill holiness in thy fear, that with the witness of my conscience pure, I may receive a portion of thy Holy Gifts, and be united to thy Holy Body and Precious Blood, and may have thee, with thy Father and Holy Spirit, dwelling and abiding in me. And grant, O Lord Jesus Christ, my God, that the partaking of thy precious and Life-giving Mysteries may not be to my condemnation, nor may not through the weakness of my soul and body be received unworthily; but grant that, even unto my last breath, I may partake of a portion of thy Holy Gifts without condemnation, unto the Communion of thy Holy Spirit, as a preparation for eternal Life and for a good defence at thy dread Judgement Seat; so that I, together with all thine elect, may also receive those incorruptible good things which thou hast prepared for them that love thee, O Lord; in whom thou art glorified forever. Amen.

Many of the prayers can be very long. many times the greek prayers are twice as long as the latin prayers, and the latin prayers are usually long enough. I don’t know why this is. The point of them is generally the same, much like the respective divine offices. I often think they could each use a little of what the other has, than would be somewhere in the middle, not too long, not too short, but right inbetween.
That would ruin them. The diversity is part of the gift of the Spirit to His Church. Their beauty is in their uniqueness from each other. Taking from each other to be more alike is like asking a Redemptorist to pray like a Benedictine. Why have the two charisms, if you blend them?

Fraternally,

Br. JR, OSF 🙂
 
That would ruin them. The diversity is part of the gift of the Spirit to His Church. Their beauty is in their uniqueness from each other. Taking from each other to be more alike is like asking a Redemptorist to pray like a Benedictine. Why have the two charisms, if you blend them?

Fraternally,

Br. JR, OSF 🙂
oh boy oh boy 🙂

the next time someone suggests a hybrid Mass … 😃
 
I know I know!! But just mearly prooves my point. A lot of “emotions” are involved when ever we start a topic. I guess I am just not sensitive enough to them lol. For examply I understand that in some culture certain postures are a no no, but we are a western rite, and the Church should not need to give in to other cultures, but instead that culture should immerse itself into the Church. This is comming from a Hispanic.
I don’t agree with this.

I heard Father Robert Barron speak a few weeks ago, and he talked about “redeeming the culture.” The Church doesn’t reject human culture, but rather, reclaims it from the evil one and makes it holy again. The Church permeates our culture and brings it back into line with the Kingdom of God.

I’m not explaining myself very well and I apologize. Father Barron talks fast and it’s hard for me to remember all that he said.

I’ve heard this same kind of message before from the Redemptorists. They, too, teach that rather than being counter-cultural and insisting on imposing a “Church” culture on the world, that instead we take the good things about human culture and bring them back into the Church. Again, I’m making a mess out of trying to explain this and I apologize. Perhaps others who have a better understanding of this teaching can explain it.

I’m not talking about rock Masses and dressing in surf clothing at Mass. The Mass transcends popular culture. But surely the Mass is not stuck in the past, either. Surely more music can be used in Mass other than just chant and polyphony.

Here is an example.

As many of you know, Gregorian chant has been used in many popular settings outside of the Mass, and many of these settings (e.g., horror movies) are not holy. But that does not negate the appropriateness of Gregorian chant for Mass.

In the same way, just because a guitar or a piano is used in secular settings does not make these instruments inappropriate for Mass. Surely the Church can take these instruments BACK from the world and say, “These are GOD’S instruments, not yours, and we WILL redeem them and use them to glorify God and help people become holy.”

This is just one example of Church redeeming culture rather than abandoning it.

Isn’t it better for the Church to take back what originally belonged to God?

After all, that’s what Jesus Christ has done with us. We were created for His purposes, but through sin, we are estranged from God. Jesus’ death and resurrection redeemed us and brought us back into fellowship with God again. None of this is through our own works, but because Jesus paid the price for our redemption on the cross. We are a redeemed people–He has made us holy, He is making us Holy, and we hope that we will be perfect and fitted for heaven through Him.

I apologize one more time for making a jumble out of this concept. But I think it makes sense that we don’t live opposed to culture. Instead, we work and battle to take back the kingdom of this world for our King, and rescue those good things that have been used all too often for evil. They need to be restored to their original purpose, which is to glorify God.
 
One can only imagine the tension that exists there. :eek:🙂
lol. My parish has two Masses on Saturday, First and third week in an Indian dialect/English, and the second in English, Second and Fourth in Spanish, the second in English, a weekly Saturday Mass in auditorium in Laotian, Eight Sunday Masses in English, Arabic and Polish. Special Masses on Feast days also include Tagalog.

I’m thinking… if we all learned Latin… we could worship together! (Not a new concept, is it…)

Oh well. I can tell you this, though, our Parish Festivals are delicious!
 
Since all of us are sinners (criminals) then it would be appropriate for us to kneel when receiving the bread of life. 😉
Penance is appropriate for the Sacrament of Penance
I guess it’s subjective. Because some DO bow reverently, others give a HEAD nod which we often give to random pedestrians. I’ve been guilty of it. Your point on kneeling proves more reverence, because we are so unworthy and we are pleading for mercy!
It is subjective because it depends a lot on the cultural understanding on what it means to kneel.
 
lol. My parish has two Masses on Saturday, First and third week in an Indian dialect/English, and the second in English, Second and Fourth in Spanish, the second in English, a weekly Saturday Mass in auditorium in Laotian, Eight Sunday Masses in English, Arabic and Polish. Special Masses on Feast days also include Tagalog.

I’m thinking… if we all learned Latin… we could worship together! (Not a new concept, is it…)

Oh well. I can tell you this, though, our Parish Festivals are delicious!
Sounds like you go to Our Lady of Good Counsel. No way the Chaldean “Mass” will ever be in Latin. They’ve already been Latinized enough
 
Penance is appropriate for the Sacrament of Penance

It is subjective because it depends a lot on the cultural understanding on what it means to kneel.
[Philippians 2]
9 Therefore God exalted him to the highest place
and gave him the name that is above every name,
10 that at the name of Jesus every knee should bow,
in heaven and on earth and under the earth,
11 and every tongue acknowledge that Jesus Christ is Lord,
to the glory of God the Father.
All this at just hearing the name of Jesus!

Seems to me that if we truly believe in the real presence and not just in a symbol, and we walk up to receive him, it is certainly not inappropriate to kneel in humility before God, the son.

I’m not going to comment on the Eastern rite because that’s not how it’s done. It could be you guys truly understand the reverence due and has incorporated it in your liturgy.

However, since that’s how we did it for hundreds of years in the Roman rite, we did it like that for a reason. To move away from that, to me is sad.

Of course I’m not even able to receive the Eucharist yet, but that’s my opinion.
 
Penance is appropriate for the Sacrament of Penance
And for the Mass:

Confiteor Deo omnipotenti,
et vobis fratres,
quia peccavi nimis
cogitatione, verbo
opere et omissione:
mea culpa, mea culpa,
mea maxima culpa.
Ideo precor beatam Mariam semper Virginem,
omnes angelos et Sanctos,
et vobis fratres,
orare pro me ad Dominum Deum nostrum. Amen.

Domine, non sum dignus, ut intres sub tectum meum: sed tantum dic verbo, et sanabitur anima mea.
It is subjective because it depends a lot on the cultural understanding on what it means to kneel.
Sure there is a cultural component, but there is also something intrinsic about the act of kneeling that makes it uniquely Christian:

“It may well be that kneeling is alien to modern culture – insofar as it is a culture, for this culture has turned away from the faith and no longer knows the one before whom kneeling is the right, indeed the intrinsically necessary gesture. The man who learns to believe learns also to kneel, and a faith or a liturgy no longer familiar with kneeling would be sick at the core. Where it has been lost, kneeling must be rediscovered, so that, in our prayer, we remain in fellowship with the apostles and martyrs, in fellowship with the whole cosmos, indeed in union with Jesus Christ Himself.”
-Pope Benedict XVI, The Spirit of the Liturgy
 
All this at just hearing the name of Jesus!

Seems to me that if we truly believe in the real presence and not just in a symbol, and we walk up to receive him, it is certainly not inappropriate to kneel in humility before God, the son.

I’m not going to comment on the Eastern rite because that’s not how it’s done. It could be you guys truly understand the reverence due and has incorporated it in your liturgy.

However, since that’s how we did it for hundreds of years in the Roman rite, we did it like that for a reason. To move away from that, to me is sad.

Of course I’m not even able to receive the Eucharist yet, but that’s my opinion.
And thus the title of the thread :rolleyes:
 
And for the Mass:

Confiteor Deo omnipotenti,
et vobis fratres,
quia peccavi nimis
cogitatione, verbo
opere et omissione:
mea culpa, mea culpa,
mea maxima culpa.
Ideo precor beatam Mariam semper Virginem,
omnes angelos et Sanctos,
et vobis fratres,
orare pro me ad Dominum Deum nostrum. Amen.
You do know that the Confetior doesn’t forgive Mortal Sins and doesn’t make you worthy to partake of the Eucharist if you do have Mortal Sins, right?
 
You do know that the Confetior doesn’t forgive Mortal Sins and doesn’t make you worthy to partake of the Eucharist if you do have Mortal Sins, right?
Clearly. But it does remit venial sins, and in that sense it is penance.
 
lol. My parish has two Masses on Saturday, First and third week in an Indian dialect/English, and the second in English, Second and Fourth in Spanish, the second in English, a weekly Saturday Mass in auditorium in Laotian, Eight Sunday Masses in English, Arabic and Polish. Special Masses on Feast days also include Tagalog.

I’m thinking… if we all learned Latin… we could worship together! (Not a new concept, is it…)

Oh well. I can tell you this, though, our Parish Festivals are delicious!
If only food could solve all our problems…🙂

But, as Christ said, man does not live by bread alone.
 
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