Who is God's chosen people?

[JoJoWasAMan]

It may be of interest that “Chosen People” could mean those who accept the messenger of God in each age! Imagine it is not and never will be easy to accept a new messenger as History has proved - This is a very specific answer from the Baha’i Writings on this subject Link - reference.bahai.org/en/t/ab/SAB/sab-18.html

O ye who are the chosen ones of the Abhá Kingdom! Praise ye the Lord of Hosts for He, riding upon the clouds, hath come down to this world out of the heaven of the invisible realm, so that East and West were lit by the glory of the Sun of Truth, and the call of the Kingdom was raised, and the heralds of the realm above, with melodies of the Concourse on high, sang out the glad tidings of the Coming. Then the whole world of being did quiver for joy, and still the people, even as the Messiah saith, slept on: for the day of the Manifestation, when the Lord of Hosts descended, found them wrapped in the slumber of unknowing. As He saith in the Gospel, My coming is even as when the thief is in the house, and the goodman of the house watcheth not.
From amongst all mankind hath He chosen you, and your eyes have been opened to the light of guidance and your ears attuned to the music of the Company above; and blessed by abounding grace, your hearts and souls have been born into new life. Thank ye and praise ye God that the hand of infinite bestowals hath set upon your heads this gem-studded crown, this crown whose lustrous jewels will forever flash and sparkle down all the reaches of time.
To thank Him for this, make ye a mighty effort, and choose for yourselves a noble goal. Through the power of faith, obey ye the teachings of God, and let all your actions conform to His laws. Read ye The Hidden Words, ponder the inner meanings thereof, act in accord therewith. Read, with close attention, the Tablets of Tarazát (Ornaments), Kalímát (Words of Paradise), Tajallíyyát (Effulgences), Ishráqát (Splendours), and Bishárát (Glad Tidings), and rise up as ye are bidden in the heavenly teachings. Thus may each one of you be even as a candle casting its light, the centre of attraction wherever people come together; and from you, as from a bed of flowers, may sweet scents be shed.
Raise ye a clamour like unto a roaring sea; like a prodigal cloud, rain down the grace of heaven. Lift up your voices and sing out the songs of the Abhá Realm. Quench ye the fires of war, lift high the banners of peace, work for the oneness of humankind and remember that religion is the channel of love unto all peoples. Be ye aware that the children of men are sheep of God and He their loving Shepherd, that He careth tenderly for all His sheep and maketh them to feed in His own green pastures of grace and giveth them to drink from the wellspring of life. Such is the way of the Lord. Such are His bestowals. Such, from among His teachings, is His precept of the oneness of mankind.
The portals of His blessings are opened wide and His signs are published abroad and the glory of truth is blazing forth; inexhaustible are the blessings. Know ye the value of this time. Strive ye with all your hearts, raise up your voices and shout, until this dark world be filled with light, and this narrow place of shadows be widened out, and this dust heap of a fleeting moment be changed into a mirror for the eternal gardens of heaven, and this globe of earth receive its portion of celestial grace.
Then will aggression crumble away, and all that maketh for disunity be destroyed, and the structure of oneness be raised—that the Blessed Tree may cast its shade over east and west, and the Tabernacle of the singleness of man be set up on the high summits, and flags that betoken love and fellowship flutter from their staffs around the world until the sea of truth lift high its waves, and earth bring forth the roses and sweet herbs of blessings without end, and become from pole to pole the Abhá Paradise.
These are the counsels of ‘Abdu’l-Bahá. It is my hope that out of the bestowals of the Lord of Hosts ye will become the spiritual essence and the very radiance of humankind, binding the hearts of all with bonds of love; that through the power of the Word of God ye will bring to life the dead now buried in the graves of their sensual desires; that ye will, with the rays of the Sun of Truth, restore the sight of those whose inner eye is blind; that ye will bring spiritual healing to the spiritually sick. These things do I hope for, out of the bounties and the bestowals of the Beloved.
At all times do I speak of you and call you to mind. I pray unto the Lord, and with tears I implore Him to rain down all these blessings upon you, and gladden your hearts, and make blissful your souls, and grant you exceeding joy and heavenly delights….
O Thou loving Provider! These souls have hearkened to the summons of the Kingdom, and have gazed upon the glory of the Sun of Truth. They have risen upward to the refreshing skies of love; they are enamoured of Thy nature, and they worship Thy beauty. Unto Thee have they turned themselves, speaking together of Thee, seeking out Thy dwelling, and thirsting for the waterbrooks of Thy heavenly realm.
Thou art the Giver, the Bestower, the Ever-loving.

Regards tony

Tony, in your view, can God reveal Himself to whomsoever He wills in any age, or is Baha’u’llah the definitive revelation for the next 1000 years?

 

[Eric_Hilbert]

Remain on the topic of the OP please

 

[JoJoWasAMan]

Remain on the topic of the OP please

Point Well taken, Eric, thank you. I will do my best to remain on-topic and start a new thread if I wish to ask other questions.

 

[Tom_Baum]

Jesus is the Wisdom of God made flesh in a way it never was before and never will again. He is the Lamb slain before the foundation of the world and foretold from the beginning. His reign is eternal.

Actually, Jesus is God made Flesh not God’s Wisdom made Flesh.

God Is a Trinity, and using our inadequate human language, of Three Persons of Whom Jesus is the Second Person, not the Wisdom of the First (referred to as The Father) nor the Wisdom of the Second (referred to as The Son) nor the Wisdom of the Third (referred to as The Holy Spirit) nor the Wisdom of the Trinity but the Incarnation of the Second (referred to as The Son).

This may sound like semantics but no Person of the Trinity is subservient to any other Person of the Trinity.

Before Mary said YES, Jesus was “just” the Second Person of the Trinity, after she said YES, Jesus was/is the Son of God and the Son of Man.

God “knew”, from before creation itself, that Mary would say YES but Mary had to say yes of her own free will.

I believe, not know but believe, that when Jesus said, “The Father is greater than I”, He was referring to Himself being self subjected to His humanness.

Mary, Jesus’s mom, and Joseph, who I refer to as Jesus’s foster father, and Jesus were all members of the Chosen People and it was thru the Chosen People that God was Incarnate, it was God Who chose and formed the Chosen People and God has NOT unchosen them.

 

[judynurse]

Actually, Jesus is God made Flesh not God’s Wisdom made Flesh.

God Is a Trinity, and using our inadequate human language, of Three Persons of Whom Jesus is the Second Person, not the Wisdom of the First (referred to as The Father) nor the Wisdom of the Second (referred to as The Son) nor the Wisdom of the Third (referred to as The Holy Spirit) nor the Wisdom of the Trinity but the Incarnation of the Second (referred to as The Son).

This may sound like semantics but no Person of the Trinity is subservient to any other Person of the Trinity.

Before Mary said YES, Jesus was “just” the Second Person of the Trinity, after she said YES, Jesus was/is the Son of God and the Son of Man.

God “knew”, from before creation itself, that Mary would say YES but Mary had to say yes of her own free will.

I believe, not know but believe, that when Jesus said, “The Father is greater than I”, He was referring to Himself being self subjected to His humanness.

Mary, Jesus’s mom, and Joseph, who I refer to as Jesus’s foster father, and Jesus were all members of the Chosen People and it was thru the Chosen People that God was Incarnate, it was God Who chose and formed the Chosen People and God has NOT unchosen them.

Very well put!! I could not have said it in quite the profound way you did, but it does resonate with me in my heart. “God has NOT unchosen them”. That’s it in a nutshell. We who are Gentiles and believers in Jesus, and His followers are also “chosen”, but in a different manner. Our “chosenness” is one of our free choice. The Jews also had to “choose” to stand with Moses and God at Mt. Sinai or not. Our choice is more individual now, but no less real. We don’t belong to a “tribe”, but rather to the “family of the Holy One of Israel, Jesus”.

 

[Kliska]

Actually, Jesus is God made Flesh not God’s Wisdom made Flesh.

We need to make sure that we follow God’s own ways of describing the Trinity. Indeed Jesus is the Word of God; “Word” here is the Logos. The Word was made flesh. Logos is something said, thought, topic, and includes something’s wisdom. Describing Him in such a way is to put it in near-east context, and the idea would be readily recognizable in Judaic thought if put “Wisdom of God.” It doesn’t lessen the Sonship and divinity of Jesus, but rather exemplifies it, and shows that the Wisdom of God is a true “Person,” just as the Spirit of God is the Holy Spirit, also a true “Person.”

 

[Tom_Baum]

We need to make sure that we follow God’s own ways of describing the Trinity. Indeed Jesus is the Word of God; “Word” here is the Logos. The Word was made flesh. Logos is something said, thought, topic, and includes something’s wisdom. Describing Him in such a way is to put it in near-east context, and the idea would be readily recognizable in Judaic thought if put “Wisdom of God.” It doesn’t lessen the Sonship and divinity of Jesus, but rather exemplifies it, and shows that the Wisdom of God is a true “Person,” just as the Spirit of God is the Holy Spirit, also a true “Person.”

Actually, since God Is a Being of Love as opposed to Love being an attribute of God, It was Love that was made Incarnate, not Wisdom.

I have met God the Father and it was in that meeting that I realized that what I was taught it 2nd grade, that God Is Love, is quite literal, therefore it was/is Love that became Incarnate.

It says in the bible somewhere that God created Wisdom, Jesus, the Second Person of the Trinity, was not created, Jesus, True God and True Man (the Incarnation) was both uncreated and created.

It is not that Wisdom became One of us but that God became One of us, therefore It was Love Himself, since Jesus came as a Male and unincarnated God is neither a He, a She nor an It, that became One of us.

Before I met Dad, I had no idea that Love could be and is a Being, now I know that Love Is a Being even tho it is beyond my conception and I believe that it is beyond any human being’s conceivability.

 

[judynurse]

I think “wisdom” is an attribute of God, as well as part of His Divine Nature, just as He is a Being of Love, yet has other attributes to His Divine Nature. and one which He can give to some people, although not to the extent in which He has Wisdom. Solomon prayed to God for “wisdom” and was given this as a gift of God’s Spirit. God is not “Wisdom”, He HAS wisdom, as do the rest of the Trinity, to an extent we cannot comprehend. That God sent His Son (the Second Person of the Trinity) to us as a human child, is an act of LOVE. Therefore, Jesus is Love, and Wisdom and Compassion and Understanding. He was/is all of these things. He had these gifts in abundance as a human man, and in infinite measure as God does in His Divine Self.

But we are off the thread again of “Chosen People”, or shall we drop that thread and start another on the Nature of God, which we can see only partially and cannot truly understand?

 

[daler]

I think “wisdom” is an attribute of God, as well as part of His Divine Nature, just as He is a Being of Love, yet has other attributes to His Divine Nature. and one which He can give to some people, although not to the extent in which He has Wisdom. Solomon prayed to God for “wisdom” and was given this as a gift of God’s Spirit. God is not “Wisdom”, He HAS wisdom, as do the rest of the Trinity, to an extent we cannot comprehend. That God sent His Son (the Second Person of the Trinity) to us as a human child, is an act of LOVE. Therefore, Jesus is Love, and Wisdom and Compassion and Understanding. He was/is all of these things. He had these gifts in abundance as a human man, and in infinite measure as God does in His Divine Self.

But we are off the thread again of “Chosen People”, or shall we drop that thread and start another on the Nature of God, which we can see only partially and cannot truly understand?

I would think it would be one heck of a test for the ego to think of oneself as “Chosen”, as in, “I’m chosen and you’re not!”

I see the same thing today when certain people are of the opinion of, “I’m saved and you’re not!”

.

 

[JoJoWasAMan]

We need to make sure that we follow God’s own ways of describing the Trinity. Indeed Jesus is the Word of God; “Word” here is the Logos. The Word was made flesh. Logos is something said, thought, topic, and includes something’s wisdom. Describing Him in such a way is to put it in near-east context, and the idea would be readily recognizable in Judaic thought if put “Wisdom of God.” It doesn’t lessen the Sonship and divinity of Jesus, but rather exemplifies it, and shows that the Wisdom of God is a true “Person,” just as the Spirit of God is the Holy Spirit, also a true “Person.”

Actually, since God Is a Being of Love as opposed to Love being an attribute of God, It was Love that was made Incarnate, not Wisdom.

I have met God the Father and it was in that meeting that I realized that what I was taught it 2nd grade, that God Is Love, is quite literal, therefore it was/is Love that became Incarnate.

It says in the bible somewhere that God created Wisdom, Jesus, the Second Person of the Trinity, was not created, Jesus, True God and True Man (the Incarnation) was both uncreated and created.

It is not that Wisdom became One of us but that God became One of us, therefore It was Love Himself, since Jesus came as a Male and unincarnated God is neither a He, a She nor an It, that became One of us.

Before I met Dad, I had no idea that Love could be and is a Being, now I know that Love Is a Being even tho it is beyond my conception and I believe that it is beyond any human being’s conceivability.

I think “wisdom” is an attribute of God, as well as part of His Divine Nature, just as He is a Being of Love, yet has other attributes to His Divine Nature. and one which He can give to some people, although not to the extent in which He has Wisdom. Solomon prayed to God for “wisdom” and was given this as a gift of God’s Spirit. God is not “Wisdom”, He HAS wisdom, as do the rest of the Trinity, to an extent we cannot comprehend. That God sent His Son (the Second Person of the Trinity) to us as a human child, is an act of LOVE. Therefore, Jesus is Love, and Wisdom and Compassion and Understanding. He was/is all of these things. He had these gifts in abundance as a human man, and in infinite measure as God does in His Divine Self.

But we are off the thread again of “Chosen People”, or shall we drop that thread and start another on the Nature of God, which we can see only partially and cannot truly understand?

God is Power, Wisdom, and Love. Power, Wisdom, and Love are all attributes of God AND the Identity of God. God is Simple. So there is no difference between Love as an attribute of God and Love as God. Saint Thomas Aqunias wrote that Love is the Name of God the Holy Spirit. Saint Louis Marie DeMontfort wrote that Jesus is the Eternal and Incarnate Wisdom. So there is no difference between the Uncreated Wisdom becoming Incarnate and Jesus becoming Incarnate. He is the Word, the Manifestation of the Father. He is the Manifestation of the Trinity. He is the Manifestation of Love.

There is also the Created Wisdom, written about throughout God’s Holy Scripture, both Old and New Testaments, His Two Witnesses, His Two Lampstands, His Two Olive Trees. They are His Children of Love, His First Creatures. They are the Two Cherubim on whom the Lord is enthroned. God will continue to reveal His Created Wisdom for all eternity.

To bring it back to topic, it is in Wisdom that God makes friends of God, and Prophets, and Saints. The Chosen People is thus whosoever loves Wisdom and seeks to dwell with her. The Book of Wisdom is very instructive in these matters, as is the Book of Ecclesiasticus.

 

[JustaServant]

I would think it would be one heck of a test for the ego to think of oneself as “Chosen”, as in, “I’m chosen and you’re not!”

.

We call those people “politicians”.

 

[JoJoWasAMan]

God is Power, Wisdom, and Love. Power, Wisdom, and Love are all attributes of God AND the Identity of God. God is Simple. So there is no difference between Love as an attribute of God and Love as God. Saint Thomas Aqunias wrote that Love is the Name of God the Holy Spirit. Saint Louis Marie DeMontfort wrote that Jesus is the Eternal and Incarnate Wisdom. So there is no difference between the Uncreated Wisdom becoming Incarnate and Jesus becoming Incarnate. He is the Word, the Manifestation of the Father. He is the Manifestation of the Trinity. He is the Manifestation of Love.

There is also the Created Wisdom, written about throughout God’s Holy Scripture, both Old and New Testaments, His Two Witnesses, His Two Lampstands, His Two Olive Trees. They are His Children of Love, His First Creatures. They are the Two Cherubim on whom the Lord is enthroned. God will continue to reveal His Created Wisdom for all eternity.

To bring it back to topic, it is in Wisdom that God makes friends of God, and Prophets, and Saints. The Chosen People is thus whosoever loves Wisdom and seeks to dwell with her. The Book of Wisdom is very instructive in these matters, as is the Book of Ecclesiasticus.

Wisdom Chapter 7:

25 For she is a breath of the might of God

and a pure emanation of the glory of the Almighty;

therefore nothing defiled can enter into her.

26 For she is the reflection of eternal light,

the spotless mirror of the power of God,

the image of his goodness.

27 Although she is one, she can do all things,

and she renews everything while herself perduring;

Passing into holy souls from age to age,

she produces friends of God and prophets.

28 For God loves nothing so much as the one who dwells with Wisdom

 

[JustaServant]

Wisdom Chapter 7:

25 For she is a breath of the might of God

and a pure emanation of the glory of the Almighty;

therefore nothing defiled can enter into her.

26 For she is the reflection of eternal light,

the spotless mirror of the power of God,

the image of his goodness.

27 Although she is one, she can do all things,

and she renews everything while herself perduring;

Passing into holy souls from age to age,

she produces friends of God and prophets.

28 For God loves nothing so much as the one who dwells with Wisdom

You do know proselytizing on this forum is a guarenteed heave-ho, right?

 

[JoJoWasAMan]

You do know proselytizing on this forum is a guarenteed heave-ho, right?

Correct me if I’m wrong, is not proselytizing an attempt to bring an outsider into a group? I’m not doing that; I don’t see myself as “in” a group with real boundaries. Wisdom is the Gift of God to all His friends, not the property of any particular group. She is universal as opposed to parochial. And a chosen soul, a holy soul, is one who chooses to seek her.

 

[Tom_Baum]

I would think it would be one heck of a test for the ego to think of oneself as “Chosen”, as in, “I’m chosen and you’re not!”

I see the same thing today when certain people are of the opinion of, “I’m saved and you’re not!”

.

It has nothing to do with ego, it has to do with who God chooses.

Being chosen has absolutely nothing to do with anyone being “better” or anything of the kind, it just means that God chooses who God chooses.

Do you think that John the Baptist was ego-driven since he was chosen by God to do what he did or do you think that he just tried to do what God chose him for?

Actually, God’s Plan is for ALL to be saved even tho some will take a detour, so to speak, before being with God in God’s Kingdom.

 

[Tom_Baum]

I think “wisdom” is an attribute of God, as well as part of His Divine Nature, just as He is a Being of Love, yet has other attributes to His Divine Nature. and one which He can give to some people, although not to the extent in which He has Wisdom. Solomon prayed to God for “wisdom” and was given this as a gift of God’s Spirit. God is not “Wisdom”, He HAS wisdom, as do the rest of the Trinity, to an extent we cannot comprehend. That God sent His Son (the Second Person of the Trinity) to us as a human child, is an act of LOVE. Therefore, Jesus is Love, and Wisdom and Compassion and Understanding. He was/is all of these things. He had these gifts in abundance as a human man, and in infinite measure as God does in His Divine Self.

But we are off the thread again of “Chosen People”, or shall we drop that thread and start another on the Nature of God, which we can see only partially and cannot truly understand?

All of God’s “attributes” flow from the fact that God Is a Being of Love, Love is not an attribute of God.

Ever heard of a “Consuming Fire of Love”?

Remember the consuming fire in the bush concerning Moses, in which the bush was not consumed?

Many seem to think that hell is a separation from God, it is not, hell is going to God and seeing your sins and the effects of your sins thru the Eyes, so to speak, of Pure Love, this may not be a totally accurate way of putting it but it is close enough.

In a worldly sense, one can liken it to a refining fire where all is burnt up except the gold, the Consuming Fire of God burns off all of the crud, so to speak.

This is why the description of hell as sheol is a pretty good analogy since sheol was the garbage dump.

Spiritual death is a separation from God.

 

[Tom_Baum]

We call those people “politicians”.

Politicians choose themselves, God chooses His messengers.

 

[barboza21]

I am just now seeing the eight page replies. I didn’t know or think my question would have such a deep answer. But thank you for your answers.

 

[daler]

I am just now seeing the eight page replies. I didn’t know or think my question would have such a deep answer. But thank you for your answers.

Most assuredly your question is such that it deserves answers befitting this lofty theme.

You have done a service in posing it.

May God bless you with wisdom and insight.

I pray for the progress of your noble soul and illumination of your mind, that you may unravel the mysteries enshrined in the most abstruse verses in all the Holy Texts, my dear spiritual friend.

Dale

 

[LaughingBoy1503]

In my pre-Catholic days, when I was court ordered to be involved with “The Twelve steps” It would seem some of the more hardcore Alcoholics anonymous fanatics believe that alcoholics are Gods chosen people. By the way, they still refer to themselves as alcoholics even if they have been sober for many, many years. So what I think they really meant was “People who are in Alcoholics Anonymous” are Gods chosen people. Some twelve steppers would say that they never heard anyone say “Alcoholics are Gods chosen people” but I assure you, that I have heard it and I am more than sure they meant it too. Though I know this is probably rare. What I never did, but I should have done, was responded back “Stupid me. And all this time I though The Jews were Gods chosen people.”