Who is the Prophet Mohammed?

[matkereta]

Oh dear matkereta,

It is not possible to give an explanation of plate tectonics in the context of an online forum. If earthquakes in Pakistan are not evidence enough for you that mountains do not stabilise the Earth, and if you are truly interested in learning about geology, I recommend two courses that you can buy online:

How the Earth Works by Professor by Michael E. Wysession

And:

Nature of Earth: An Introduction to Geology by Professor John J. Renton

I found both to be excellent.

Alternatively you can phone up the geology department of a reputable university and ask whether one of the professors will take the trouble to explain to you why mountains cannot be said to stabilise the Earth.

So here are your options:

–Go on believing what you want to believe

–Accept that earthquakes in Pakistan falsify the theory that mountains stabilise the Earth

–Do the hard yards and learn about real geology

I have a feeling you will choose the first of these options and go on demanding, unrealistically, that we prove to your satisfaction in an online forum what every reputable geologist knows.

I may be doing you an injustice but I suspect, from past discussions with Muslims about this topic, that there is no evidence that would satisfy you because you have already made up your mind what to believe.

Sorry mate, just came from office…
I’m interested to know more about the two courses if possible. Since you have the materials, could it possible to lend those to me? It’s too expensive to buy especially in Malaysia. There is a reputable geologist ( Zaghloul Raghib Mohammad El-Naggar. Ph.D. (Geology) ) that interprete the verses “THE MOUNTAINS AS STABILIZERS FOR THE EARTH” as per link:
quranandscience.com/earth/231-the-mountains-as-stabilizers-for-the-earth.html There are both sides of the stories. If it can prove wrong, then I have to accept it. Up to you to decide what my decision, My English teacher told me not to stereotyping people. Is not about who you are, but if something is true, you have to accept it.

 

[MartinJordan]

I don’t know how to answer your question with my limited knowledge. Sorry.

What is your religion if you don’t mind me asking.

MJ

 

[matkereta]

What is your religion if you don’t mind me asking.

MJ

Islam. Thanks for asking. Actually, I don’t intend to join this forum. I was searching for the reason why Christian convert to Islam and vice versa and read their stories. I found so many website link to that. And I found this website, I don’t want to interfere with the topic discussed but when I see posting about somebody asking about Muhammad and the answer seems to be negative (from my perspective), then I feel oblige to answer based on my side as a Muslim. But then, it becomes a debate which is good if it can bring the truth which is sometime hard (including me) to accept .

 

[Augustine3]

Whoever doubts Islam is a religion of non-tolerance towards other religions then please read below what Mohammed himself said:

Allah’s Apostle said, "I have been ordered to fight the people till they say: ‘None has the right to be worshipped but Allah.’"

Sahih Bukhari Volume 1, Book 8, Number 387

 

[Reuben_J]

Islam. Thanks for asking. Actually, I don’t intend to join this forum. I was searching for the reason why Christian convert to Islam and vice versa and read their stories. I found so many website link to that. And I found this website, I don’t want to interfere with the topic discussed but when I see posting about somebody asking about Muhammad and the answer seems to be negative (from my perspective), then I feel oblige to answer based on my side as a Muslim. But then, it becomes a debate which is good if it can bring the truth which is sometime hard (including me) to accept .

Well said. And welcome to the Forum.

Subject such as this is always tricky and discussion on it can become heated at times as participants (on both sides) show their belligerence. However, quite often we have shown restrain to bring about a more objective discussion. Our criticism of Mohammad or the Quran obviously derived from the fact that we don’t believe in them as they contradict our most basic and important belief (in Christianity). I am glad that you can see them from our perspective rather than taking them as insult to your belief.

 

[JakeG]

Since you have the materials, could it possible to lend those to me? It’s too expensive to buy especially in Malaysia.

As you point out, they’re expensive. No offence but I’m not going to send them to Malaysia.

There is a reputable geologist ( Zaghloul Raghib Mohammad El-Naggar. Ph.D. (Geology) ) that interprete the verses “THE MOUNTAINS AS STABILIZERS FOR THE EARTH”

This conversation is taking a depressingly predictable course. Sooner or later the Muslim party in the course of these discussions refers me to some Islamic website, online lecture or youtube clip.

So here’s the thing. If a real scientist makes a radically new discovery he publishes it in a first tier peer reviewed scientific journal. Let me unpack that for you.

A "first tier "journal is one such as Geology, Aeolian Research, etc or the better known general ones such as Nature, Science, Proceedings of the National Academy of Sciences, PLoS, etc, that publish papers that other scientists reference.

“Peer reviewed” means that other scientists have reviewed the article before it is published and have decided it is not utter nonsense. The peer reviewers don’t guarantee the author of the article is correct, merely that what he writes is worth consideration. It is quite a low bar.

So if you can show me where this doctor Zaghloul Raghib Mohammad El-Naggar. Ph.D. (Geology) has published an article on this topic in a first tier peer reviewed scientific journal I’ll pay attention.

Until then doctor Zaghloul Raghib Mohammad El-Naggar is just another blowhard with Ph.D. expressing a personal opinion unsupported by peer reviewed science. Life is too short to follow all these dead ends.

Incidentally most worthwhile scientific papers are the result of collaborations and have multiple authors. Who are Zaghloul Raghib Mohammad El-Naggar’s collaborators?

There are both sides of the stories.

Fine. Show me peer reviewed articles in first tier scientific journals that tell the “other side” of the story and I’ll pay attention. Articles on Islamic websites, online lectures and youtube clips don’t cut it with me. Nor does possession of an alleged Ph.D. I sometimes think there’s no fool like a fool with a Ph.D.

If it can prove wrong, then I have to accept it.

As I’ve already said, it is my depressing experience that if people what to believe something badly enough they’ll find a way of rationalising it. I suspect you are in that category and therefore I shall waste no time attempting to convince you. I’m simply pointing out for the benefit of other readers that you have no credible evidence that the mountains act as pegs to stabilise the earth.

To repeat the obvious point that you seek to ignore, frequent and terrible earthquakes in mountainous countries like Pakistan rather discredit the idea. By contrast Australia, one of the least mountainous continents on earth, rarely has quakes and I don’t think there’s been a really serious one in recorded history.

Actual observation trumps the koran any day no matter what Zaghloul Raghib Mohammad El-Naggar. Ph.D. (Geology) says.

 

[matkereta]

Whoever doubts Islam is a religion of non-tolerance towards other religions then please read below what Mohammed himself said:

Allah’s Apostle said, "I have been ordered to fight the people till they say: ‘None has the right to be worshipped but Allah.’"

Sahih Bukhari Volume 1, Book 8, Number 387

Thanks for pointing this out. I’m not sure about this but it seems contradict with Quran which is the first source of reference for Muslim as per following verse.

Allah says: “Let there be no compulsion in religion. Truth has been made clear from error. Whoever rejects false worship and believes in Allah has grasped the most trustworthy handhold that never breaks. And Allah hears and knows all things.” [Sûrah al-Baqarah: 256]

More explanation can be found on this website on this verse. I’m sorry it’s difficult and take a lot of time to explain here so I just paste the link…
en.islamtoday.net/artshow-262-3441.htm

However, I just browsed on this topic to find the answer not only to answer you but to satisfy my curiosity because it seems strange to me kill non-Muslim without any reason. My ex-boss is American Christian who are very nice to me.
These is the answer which I found on— islamic-replies.ucoz.com/2/Rebut_WikiIslam_5_32.html

"Reply:
The Hadith has been taken out of it’s historical background. Firstly, the fighting here refers to fighting in self defense. This should be taken in context with Surah Anfal 8:39.

“It refers to fighting those who are waging war, whom Allah has permitted us to fight. It does not refer to those who have a covenant with us with whom Allah commands us to fulfill our covenant.” (Ibn Taymiyyah - Majmu’ al-Fatawa 19/20).

“This hadith has been made the target of criticism by the hostile critics of Islam. They wrongly assert that it is by sheer force that people are converted to Islam. But there is not an iota of truth in it. They do not look into the words used by the Holy Prophet. Here the verb قات is highly meaningful. A person who is conversant even with the rudiments of Arabic grammar knows fully well that it is from the bab مفا علم which implies that it is not a one-sided action but a participation of both sides. Thus according to the bab of the verb used, it becomes clear that the Holy Prophet exhorted to fight against those who had raised arms against the Muslims. This command is not directed against every non-Muslim.” (Commentary Of: Sahih Muslim, Book 1, Number 30 - Abdul Hamid Siddiqi’s Commentary - Dar Al Arabia - Volume 1 - Chapter IX - Footnote 54 - Pages 16-17).

“This hadith in all likelihood refers to the pagan Arabs who persecuted Muslims, murdered them, and broke their treaties with them. As such, they deserved capital punishment, yet they are given the opportunity to repent in which case they are to be forgiven, and their property will be protected. This shows, like other instances in the Qur’an and in hadith, that the purpose of Islam is punitive, but rehabilitative. To interpret this hadith in a generalized way is to violate the text of the Qur’an and basic rules of interpretation.” (Jamal Badawi - Source).

"Sheikh Al-Qaradawi discussed it, quoting the sayings of the jurists and the traditionalist and modern scholars of Hadith. He came to the conclusion that this hadith is categorized as one of the general hadiths, which target dealing with private issues. He then quoted the comment of Sheikh Al-Ghazali on this hadith, who said,

The main goal of fighting people, then, is not to make them testify that none has the right to be worshipped but Allah. If the People of the Book are excluded from the above mentioned hadith, then does the hadith deal with all polytheists and idolaters? The answer is definitely “no”! In another authentic hadith, the Magians are included with the People of the Book, as the hadith states, “Treat them as you treat the People of the Book” (reported by Malik, Al-Bayhaqi, and others. It was deemed weak by Sheikh Al-Albani). Hence, the fact is that this hadith is pertinent to the Arab polytheists who were reluctant to respect Islam and its followers, seeking to destroy them completely, and who also failed to respect any concluded treaty or given covenant. Those people were granted four months to reconsider their situation and rectify their stance. If they insisted upon obliterating Islam, then it would be necessary to fight them." (IslamOnline.net - Source).

Secondly, becoming Muslim wasn’t the only option those who fought against Islam had. They could either become Muslims, pay jizya or leave the Islamic state. This is all taught in Islam, and one can refer to the historical background on Surah 9 for more details. So IN CONTEXT, the people being referred to here as not having their property & lives sacred are those who fought against Islam plus broke their treaties. As far as other non-Muslims living in Islamic states are concerned, they have their properties and lives protected. Please visit this "The Status of Non-Muslims In the Islamic State " to see the evidences. "

I hope that clarifies my doubt and your concern. To those who want to know what hadith is can refer to en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hadith

 

[Augustine3]

Thanks for pointing this out. I’m not sure about this but it seems contradict with Quran which is the first source of reference for Muslim as per following verse.

"Reply:
The Hadith has been taken out of it’s historical background. Firstly, the fighting here refers to fighting in self defense. This should be taken in context with Surah Anfal 8:39.

With all respect my friend, there’s nothing in the context that suggests it’s an act of self defence. It means what it says, Mohammed has been ordered to fight until his enemies confess none has the right to be worshipped but Allah.

Secondly, becoming Muslim wasn’t the only option those who fought against Islam had. They could either become Muslims, pay jizya or leave the Islamic state. This is all taught in Islam, and one can refer to the historical background on Surah 9 for more details. So IN CONTEXT, the people being referred to here as not having their property & lives sacred are those who fought against Islam plus broke their treaties. As far as other non-Muslims living in Islamic states are concerned, they have their properties and lives protected. Please visit this "The Status of Non-Muslims In the Islamic State " to see the evidences. "

This is the classical reason why I say Muslims are intolerant to others. If Non-Muslims pay the jizya then they will be treated as second class people and denied the privileges that Muslims enjoy. And why? Are we not all made by the same loving hand of God? Why should they be treated differently?

Secondly, what if Non-Muslims don’t want to pay the jizya because they don’t want “protection” from Muslims but only to live in peace? They have no choice because that’s not an option Muslims would accept. Can you see from a Non-Muslim point of view why we perceive this sort of treatment as intolerant and oppressive?

God bless,

 

[MartinJordan]

Islam. Thanks for asking. Actually, I don’t intend to join this forum. I was searching for the reason why Christian convert to Islam and vice versa and read their stories. I found so many website link to that. And I found this website, I don’t want to interfere with the topic discussed but when I see posting about somebody asking about Muhammad and the answer seems to be negative (from my perspective), then I feel oblige to answer based on my side as a Muslim. But then, it becomes a debate which is good if it can bring the truth which is sometime hard (including me) to accept .

Thank you for your kind clarification. I would recommend you to hang around here and understand the 2000 year old position of the Catholic church. I can understand your “sometime hard to accept” especially if I am correct you are raised Muslim thus your point of view.

Meanwhile hope you will not as Reuben J reiterated be insulted by our non-acceptance of your prophet.

We as Christians (atleast I would say those who take their faith seriously and not be tossed to and fro, and carried about with every wind of doctrine by the wickedness of men (Eph 4:14) ) have centuries and centuries of writings even before 500 AD.

Thus even before the Bible (as the world knows it) was collected together (OT and especially the NT - which some Muslims say has been corrupted but with no proof) that state our basic Faith and experiences of those who kept teachings of our Lord Jesus and many even suffered and died for it.

I would recommend to go deep into history (if you want to understand the Catholic position).

Peace to you.

MJ

 

[matkereta]

With all respect my friend, there’s nothing in the context that suggests it’s an act of self defence. It means what it says, Mohammed has been ordered to fight until his enemies confess none has the right to be worshipped but Allah.

This is the classical reason why I say Muslims are intolerant to others. If Non-Muslims pay the jizya then they will be treated as second class people and denied the privileges that Muslims enjoy. And why? Are we not all made by the same loving hand of God? Why should they be treated differently?

Secondly, what if Non-Muslims don’t want to pay the jizya because they don’t want “protection” from Muslims but only to live in peace? They have no choice because that’s not an option Muslims would accept. Can you see from a Non-Muslim point of view why we perceive this sort of treatment as intolerant and oppressive?

God bless,

Because Muslim has to pay zakat “(roughly” as tax) based on Islam obligation.
"Definition of ‘Zakat’- A term used in Islamic finance to refer to the obligation that an individual has to donate a certain proportion of wealth each year to charitable causes. Zakat is a mandatory process for Muslims in order to physically and spiritually purify their yearly earnings that are over and above what is required to provide the essential needs of a person or family.
Investopedia explains ‘Zakat’
There are comprehensive descriptions in religious texts describing minimum amounts of zakat with regards to farm produce, cattle, business activities, paper currency and precious metals such as gold and silver.
The most common level of zakat on wealth from cash, equities and gold is 2.5% of the total value.
Source: investopedia.com/terms/z/zakat.asp#axzz29i05A1c9 or lots other website on zakat if you want to know more.

Non-muslim do not have to pay zakat because it’s not their religous requirement. So they have to pay some kind of jizya ((roughly" as tax) refer (en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jizya),
If they are forced to pay zakat then it’s not a freedom of religion for them. If non-Muslim don’t pay anything, will it be fair? Muslim will pay tax and zakat at the same time if they live US but in Malaysia (like me) some of my zakat contribution will be income tax-deductable.

I found this video from TED last month which is quite interesting opinion based on non-Muslim (Lesley Hazleton) perspective on reading the Quran. Please watch if you have time. ted.com/talks/lesley_hazelton_on_reading_the_koran.html

 

[matkereta]

Thank you for your kind clarification. I would recommend you to hang around here and understand the 2000 year old position of the Catholic church. I can understand your “sometime hard to accept” especially if I am correct you are raised Muslim thus your point of view.

Meanwhile hope you will not as Reuben J reiterated be insulted by our non-acceptance of your prophet.

We as Christians (atleast I would say those who take their faith seriously and not be tossed to and fro, and carried about with every wind of doctrine by the wickedness of men (Eph 4:14) ) have centuries and centuries of writings even before 500 AD.

Thus even before the Bible (as the world knows it) was collected together (OT and especially the NT - which some Muslims say has been corrupted but with no proof) that state our basic Faith and experiences of those who kept teachings of our Lord Jesus and many even suffered and died for it.

I would recommend to go deep into history (if you want to understand the Catholic position).

Peace to you.

MJ

Thanks to you too. Yes, I’m raised as Muslim but until recently I begin to explore more about religion not only Islam but other religion and try to understand from their perspective and if possible try to give my perspective on Islam. I’ll try hang around but can’t promise due to my workload.

 

[Reuben_J]

If they are forced to pay zakat then it’s not a freedom of religion for them. If non-Muslim don’t pay anything, will it be fair? Muslim will pay tax and zakat at the same time if they live US but in Malaysia (like me) some of my zakat contribution will be income tax-deductable.

You may probably miss the point brought about by Christians on the jizya issue.

Looking at the Quranic verses on paying the jizya calls for the non-Muslims concerned to be totally humiliated. Realistically today that would be translated to a call for them to be second class citizens of the country. Granted, all is fair in love and war, but then again, that is the Quran’s position on the jizya.

And you are right about the zakat contribution. In Islamic countries where this is practiced, Muslims do enjoy much better tax exemption than the non-Muslims. This may be unfair as ultimately the non-Muslims pay more tax than their equivalent Muslim counterparts.

 

[Augustine3]

Because Muslim has to pay zakat “(roughly” as tax) based on Islam obligation.
"Definition of ‘Zakat’- A term used in Islamic finance to refer to the obligation that an individual has to donate a certain proportion of wealth each year to charitable causes. Zakat is a mandatory process for Muslims in order to physically and spiritually purify their yearly earnings that are over and above what is required to provide the essential needs of a person or family.
Investopedia explains ‘Zakat’
There are comprehensive descriptions in religious texts describing minimum amounts of zakat with regards to farm produce, cattle, business activities, paper currency and precious metals such as gold and silver.
The most common level of zakat on wealth from cash, equities and gold is 2.5% of the total value.
Source: investopedia.com/terms/z/zakat.asp#axzz29i05A1c9 or lots other website on zakat if you want to know more.

Non-muslim do not have to pay zakat because it’s not their religous requirement. So they have to pay some kind of jizya ((roughly" as tax) refer (en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jizya),
If they are forced to pay zakat then it’s not a freedom of religion for them. If non-Muslim don’t pay anything, will it be fair? Muslim will pay tax and zakat at the same time if they live US but in Malaysia (like me) some of my zakat contribution will be income tax-deductable.

I found this video from TED last month which is quite interesting opinion based on non-Muslim (Lesley Hazleton) perspective on reading the Quran. Please watch if you have time. ted.com/talks/lesley_hazelton_on_reading_the_koran.html

There’s a difference between Zakat and jizya. Like I said Non-Muslims who chose to pay the jizya are treated as inferior, lower class people. So it’s not just a case of an economic balance, there’s much more to it than that. The non-Muslims remain oppressed even if they pay the jizya.

God bless,

 

[Augustine3]

Fight against those who believe not in Allah, nor in the Last Day, nor forbid that which has been forbidden by Allah and His Messenger (and those who acknowledge not the religion of truth (i.e. Islam) among the people of the Scripture (Jews and Christians), until they pay the Jizyah with willing submission, and feel themselves subdued. – Quran 9:29

Does the idea of subduing people sound like a step taken to create fairness regarding the balance zakat and jizya?

God bless,

 

[matkereta]

You may probably miss the point brought about by Christians on the jizya issue.

Looking at the Quranic verses on paying the jizya calls for the non-Muslims concerned to be totally humiliated. Realistically today that would be translated to a call for them to be second class citizens of the country. Granted, all is fair in love and war, but then again, that is the Quran’s position on the jizya.

And you are right about the zakat contribution. In Islamic countries where this is practiced, Muslims do enjoy much better tax exemption than the non-Muslims. This may be unfair as ultimately the non-Muslims pay more tax than their equivalent Muslim counterparts.

In my country, I have to pay tax based on my income, say for example- $1000. If I pay zakat $100, then I have to pay tax $900 (tax deductable $100). so in total I pay $1000. If I want to pay tax all $1000 then also no problem. If non-Muslim want to pay zakat, they can also claim tax deductable. I’m not sure whether there is non-Muslim who pay zakat because it’s not in their religion.

 

[Reuben_J]

In my country, I have to pay tax based on my income, say for example- $1000. If I pay zakat $100, then I have to pay tax $900 (tax deductable $100). so in total I pay $1000. If I want to pay tax all $1000 then also no problem. If non-Muslim want to pay zakat, they can also claim tax deductable. I’m not sure whether there is non-Muslim who pay zakat because it’s not in their religion.

Zakat is a religious tithe for the Muslims. Non-Muslims are not bound by this; it is the jizya for them. I am not an accountant by training, but all things taken into consideration in assessing an overall yearly tax return, a Muslim who pay the zakat is better off in tax deduction or tax payable than his non-Muslim counterpart.

 

[JakeG]

matkereta

You quote Qaradawi.

The following is translated from Al-Sharq Al-Awsat (London), July 10, 2004.

…The f ollowing are his words: ‘The iniquity of the Jews, as a community, is obvious and apparent. Let me explain: The West, I can say about some of them * who are iniquitous, and others who are not iniquitous. And it is possible. But iniquity on the part of the Jews is great iniquity, grave iniquity, iniquity that is incomparable and overt. Therefore, when it was suggested to me that Jews would be participating in the dialogue in the upcoming interview, I rejected this. I said no, we should not conduct a dialogue with these [people] while their hands are stained with our blood.’

"If Al-Qaradhawi had said that he was against the Israelis, then perhaps we would have understood the meaning. But he generalized and he said that it is permissible to have a dialogue with the Christians, and he criticized having a dialogue with the Jews. Al-Qaradhawi is free to have his views, but the question is, why does he relinquish his own statements for the sake of a visa, acting like others whose voices resound from our pulpits attacking the infidels, but who, when they line up in the embassies [to apply for visas], change their words.*

You may understand why I would not trust Qaradawi? I think he is the sort of man who will always tailor his message to what he thinks his audience wants to hear – rather like some politicians I know.

You quote certain ahadith.

The trouble is that ahadith and koranic verses are rather like proverbs; you can find one for any occasion.

Here’s one from Bukhari that is frequently broadcast an Arab TV channels:

Book 041, Number 6981:
Ibn 'Umar reported Allah’s Messenger (may peace be upon him) as saying: You will fight against the Jews and you will kill them until even a stone would say: Come here, Muslim, there is a Jew (hiding himself behind me) ; kill him.

But here are my all-time favourite funny ahadith:

Chapter# 35, Book 26, Number 5560:

Umm Sharik reported that Allah’s Messenger (may peace be upon him) commanded her to kill geckos. This hadith has been transmitted on the authority of Ibn Abi Shaiba with a slight variation of wording.

Book 26, Number 5562:

‘Amir b. Sa’d reported on the authority of his father that Allah’s Apostle (may peace be upon him) commanded the killing of geckos, and he called them little noxious creatures.

Book 26, Number 5563:

Book 26, Number 5564:

Abu Huraira reported Allah’s Messenger (may peace be upon him) as saying: He who killed a gecko with the first stroke for him is such and such a reward, and he who killed it with a second stroke for him is such and such reward less than the first one, and he who killed it with the third stroke for him is such and such a reward less than the second one.

Book 26, Number 5565:

This hadith has been reported on the authority of Abu Huraira through another chain of transmitters (and the words are): – He who killed a gecko with the first stroke for him are ordained one hundred virtues, and with the second one less than that and with the third one less than that.

Book 26, Number 5566:

Abu Huraira reported Allah’s Messenger (may peace be upon him) as saying (that he who kills a gecko) with the first stroke there are seventy rewards for him.

I like geckos.

Another funny one from Bukhari:

“Allah’s Apostle once said to a group of women : ‘I have not seen any one more deficient in intelligence and religion than you. A cautious, sensible man could be led astray by some of you.’ The women asked: ‘O Allah’s Apostle, what is deficient in our intelligence and religion?’ He said: ‘Is not the evidence of two women equal to the witness of one man?’ They replied in the affirmative. He said: ‘This is the deficiency of your intelligence’ … ‘Isn’t it true that a woman can neither pray nor fast during her menses?’ The women replied in the affirmative. He said: ‘This is the deficiency in your religion.’”

This is so bizarre on so many levels I don’t know where to start.

What is even funnier is watching Muslim “scholars” attempting to explain them away.

What they do not sound like are the words of the last and greatest messenger from the creator of the universe.

 

[MartinJordan]

Thanks to you too. Yes, I’m raised as Muslim but until recently I begin to explore more about religion not only Islam but other religion and try to understand from their perspective and if possible try to give my perspective on Islam. I’ll try hang around but can’t promise due to my workload.

You’re welcome. Pleasure to “talking” with you and all the best in your work.

MJ

 

[matkereta]

Fight against those who believe not in Allah, nor in the Last Day, nor forbid that which has been forbidden by Allah and His Messenger (and those who acknowledge not the religion of truth (i.e. Islam) among the people of the Scripture (Jews and Christians), until they pay the Jizyah with willing submission, and feel themselves subdued. – Quran 9:29

Does the idea of subduing people sound like a step taken to create fairness regarding the balance zakat and jizya?

God bless,

Sorry guys, so many postings and can’t keep up but i’ll try to answer. Again, cut and paste

Since you are interesting to know details about the verse, i provide the link on the explanation of the chapter.
englishtafsir.com/Quran/9/index.html

You can’t interpret one verse without knowing when and why it’s revealed. Same as when you quote one verse of Bible and then straight away use it without knowing the whole chapter. E.g. the following verse (forgive me if it’s not correct, i just got from the internet :

Kill People Who Don’t Listen to Priests?
Anyone arrogant enough to reject the verdict of the judge or of the priest who represents the LORD your God must be put to death. Such evil must be purged from Israel. (Deuteronomy 17:12 NLT)

Kill Nonbelievers?
2 Chronicles 15:13
New International Version (NIV)
13 All who would not seek the Lord, the God of Israel, were to be put to death, whether small or great, man or woman.
biblegateway.com/passage/?search=2+Chronicles+15%3A12%2C2+Chronicles+15%3A13&version=NIV

Regarding the treatment of Christian during Muhammad life:
"In 628 AD, a delegation from St. Catherine’s Monastery came to Prophet Muhammed and requested his protection. He responded by granting them a charter of rights, which I reproduce below in its entirety. St. Catherine’s Monastery is located at the foot of Mt. Sinai and is the world’s oldest monastery. It possess a huge collection of Christian manuscripts, second only to the Vatican, and is a world heritage site. It also boasts the oldest collection of Christian icons. It is a treasure house of Christian history that has remained safe for 1400 years under Muslim protection.

The Promise to St. Catherine:
"This is a message from Muhammad ibn Abdullah, as a covenant to those who adopt Christianity, near and far, we are with them.
Verily I, the servants, the helpers, and my followers defend them, because Christians are my citizens; and by Allah! I hold out against anything that displeases them.

No compulsion is to be on them. Neither are their judges to be removed from their jobs nor their monks from their monasteries. No one is to destroy a house of their religion, to damage it, or to carry anything from it to the Muslims’ houses.
Should anyone take any of these, he would spoil God’s covenant and disobey His Prophet. Verily, they are my allies and have my secure charter against all that they hate.

No one is to force them to travel or to oblige them to fight. The Muslims are to fight for them. If a female Christian is married to a Muslim, it is not to take place without her approval. She is not to be prevented from visiting her church to pray. Their churches are to be respected. They are neither to be prevented from repairing them nor the sacredness of their covenants.

No one of the nation (Muslims) is to disobey the covenant till the Last Day (end of the world)."

ijtihad.org/Prophet%20Muhammed’s%20Promise.htm

 

[matkereta]

You’re welcome. Pleasure to “talking” with you and all the best in your work.

MJ

Pleasure to “talking” to you too, Hopefully, it will continue. I’ll go for long holiday. Apologize if my words are not correct/ offend anybody. I’ll continue to explore and reply if I had a chance. Wish you all the best.