Who is the Rock?

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FOURTEENTH SESSION, CANONS CONCERNING THE MOST HOLY SACRAMENT OF PENANCE: “If anyone says that the confession of all sins as it is observed in the Church is impossible and is a human tradition to be abolished by pious people; or that each and all of the faithful of Christ or either sex are not bound thereto once a year in accordance with the constitution of the great Lateran Council, and that for this reason the faithful of Christ are to be persuaded not to confess during Lent, LET HIM BE ANATHEMA” (Canons Concerning the Most Holy Sacrament of Penance, Canon 8).

FOURTEENTH SESSION, CANONS CONCERNING THE MOST HOLY SACRAMENT OF PENANCE: “If anyone says that God always pardons the whole penalty together with the guilt and that the satisfaction of penitents is nothing else than the faith by which they perceive that Christ has satisfied for them, LET HIM BE** ANATHEMA**” (Canons Concerning the Most Holy Sacrament of Penance, Canon 8).

TWENTY-SECOND SESSION, CANONS ON THE SACRIFICE OF THE MASS: “If anyone says that in the mass a true and real sacrifice is not offered to God; or that to be offered is nothing else than that Christ is given to us to eat, LET HIM BE ANATHEMA” (Canons on the Sacrifice of the Mass, Canon 1).

TWENTY-SECOND SESSION, CANONS ON THE SACRIFICE OF THE MASS: “If anyone says that by those words, Do this for a commemoration of me, Christ did not institute the Apostles priests; or did not ordain that they and other priests should offer His own body and blood, LET HIM BE ANATHEMA” (Canons on the Sacrifice of the Mass, Canon 2).

TWENTY-SECOND SESSION, CANONS ON THE SACRIFICE OF THE MASS: “If anyone says that the sacrifice of the mass is one only of praise and thanksgiving; or that it is a mere commemoration of the sacrifice consummated on the cross but not a propitiatory one; or that it profits him only who receives, and ought not to be offered for the living and the dead, for sins, punishments, satisfactions, and other necessities, LET HIM BE ANATHEMA” (Canons on the Sacrifice of the Mass, Canon 3).

TWENTY-SECOND SESSION, CANONS ON THE SACRIFICE OF THE MASS: “If anyone says that it is a deception to celebrate masses in honor of the saints and in order to obtain their intercession with God, as the Church intends, LET HIM BE ANATHEMA” (Canons on the Sacrifice of the Mass, Canon 5).

TWENTY-THIRD SESSION, CANONS ON THE SACRAMENT OF ORDER: “If anyone says that there is not in the New Testament a visible and external priesthood, or that there is no power of consecrating and offering the true body and blood of the Lord and of forgiving and retaining sins, but only the office and bare ministry of preaching the Gospel; or that those who do not preach are not priests at all, LET HIM BE** ANATHEMA**” (Canons on the Sacrifice of the Mass, Canon 1).

TWENTY-THIRD SESSION, CANONS ON THE SACRAMENT OF ORDER: “If anyone says that the bishops who are chosen by the authority of the Roman pontiff are not true and legitimate bishops, but merely human deception, LET HIM BE ANATHEMA” (Canons on the Sacrifice of the Mass, Canon 8).

TWENTY-FIFTH SESSION, ON THE INVOCATION, VENERATION, AND RELICS OF SAINTS, AND ON SACRED IMAGES: “The holy council commands all bishops and others who hold the office of teaching and have charge of the cura animarum, that in accordance with the usage of the Catholic and Apostolic Church, received from the primitive times of the Christian religion, and with the unanimous teaching of the holy Fathers and the decrees of sacred councils, they above all instruct the faithful diligently in matters relating to intercession and invocation of the saints, the veneration of relics, and the legitimate use of images, teaching them that the saints who reign together with Christ offer up their prayers to God for men, that it is good and beneficial suppliantly to invoke them and to have recourse to their prayers, assistance and support in order to obtain favors from God through His Son, Jesus Christ our Lord, who alone is our redeemer and savior; and that they think impiously who deny that the saints who enjoy eternal happiness in heaven are to be invoked, or who assert that they do not pray for men, or that our invocation of them to pray for each of us individually is idolatry, or that it is opposed to the word of God and inconsistent with the honor of the one mediator of God and men, Jesus Christ, or that it is foolish to pray vocally or mentally to those who reign in heaven.”

TWENTY-FIFTH SESSION, DECREE ON PURGATORY: “Since the Catholic Church, instructed by the Holy Ghost, has, following the sacred writings and the ancient tradition of the Fathers, taught in sacred councils and very recently in this ecumenical council that there is a purgatory, and that the souls there detained are aided by the suffrages of the faithful and chiefly by the acceptable sacrifice of the altar, the holy council commands the bishops that they strive diligently to the end that the sound doctrine of purgatory, transmitted by the Fathers and sacred councils, be believed and maintained by the faithful of Christ, and be everywhere taught and preached.”

So who is damning who??
 
And please know that I am sending this information not in hate but so Catholics can discern and come to know the salvation in Christ alone and quit trying to earn their own salvation through the Mass and the RC system.

To do so is denying his FREE gift period.

.
 
SavedByJesus said:
According to your religion everyone outside of it is already damned to Hell. But in reality it will be GOD who condems the RCC to hell when he returns. I say again…who is adding what here?

Not necessarily.

SavedByJesus;6101106 said:
**Revelation 22:18 **
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For I testify unto every man that heareth the words of the prophecy of this book, If any man shall add unto these things, God shall add unto him the plagues that are written in this book:.

And what has the Church added to the prophecy of the book of Revelation?
SavedByJesus said:
**DECLARATIONS OF THE COUNCIL OF TRENT **
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)

FOURTH SESSION: DECREE CONCERNING THE CANONICAL SCRIPTURES: “If anyone does not accept as sacred and canonical the aforesaid books in their entirety and with all their parts [the 66 books of the Bible plus 12 apocryphal books, being two of Paralipomenon, two of Esdras, Tobias, Judith, Wisdom, Ecclesiasticus, Baruch, Sophonias, two of Macabees], as they have been accustomed to be read in the Catholic Church and as they are contained in the old Latin Vulgate Edition, and knowingly and deliberately rejects the aforesaid traditions, LET HIM BE ANATHEMA.” .

The bit in Green is not part of the original text. There are 73 books in our canon as decreed by Pope Damascus at the Council of Rome in 382 AD. Before than there was no canon. No canon.

As for all the anathemas the Church was handed the word of God and she guards and defends it.

St Paul said (2 Thes 2:15) “Therefore, brethren, stand fast: and **hold **the traditions, which you have learned, whether by word or by our epistle.” And that’s what the Church does. Do you hold onto all the tradtions handed down.
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SavedByJesus said:
And please know that I am sending this information not in hate but so Catholics can discern and come to know the salvation in Christ alone and quit trying to earn their own salvation through the Mass and the RC system.

To do so is denying his FREE gift period.

.
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We Catholics do not seek to earn our salvation.
But we certainly don’t believe that merely saying
“I believe in ya Jesus!” will get you into heaven.

1 Cor 11:26 For as often as you shall eat this bread and drink the chalice, you shall show the death of the Lord, until he come.

How often do you do this?
 
SavedByJesus said:
And please know that I am sending this information not in hate but so Catholics can discern and come to know the salvation in Christ alone and quit trying to earn their own salvation through the Mass and the RC system.

To do so is denying his FREE gift period.

.
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Glory to Jesus Christ!

With all due respect, how dare you.:mad: You come to this message board to tell Catholics what they believe and then tell them they’re damned?! That is something the very Lord Himself did not do!

You don’t know darn thing about Catholicism, much less anything about the individual souls of forum members here. How do you know that they are trying to “earn their own salvation through the Mass and the RC system”? How can you even start to think you know that? Only hubris and prelest could be the only reason.

I may not be Catholic, but I would not dare to judge the souls of people in any church or even atheists for that matter. That is God’s job and you, sir, are NOT Almighty God. May God have mercy on your soul!:byzsoc:

In Christ,
Andrew
 
The bit in Green is not part of the original text. There are 73 books in our canon as decreed by Pope Damascus at the Council of Rome in 382 AD. Before than there was no canon. No canon.
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As for all the anathemas the Church was handed the word of God and she guards and defends it.
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My authority is the Bible…not the 845 pages of the Catechism.

No ANATHEMAS in the Bible…this is all made up from manmade traditions to give the RCC more power and keep their followers in bondage.

**Mark 7:6-13 **(King James Version)

6He answered and said unto them, Well hath Esaias prophesied of you hypocrites, as it is written, This people honoureth me with their lips, but their heart is far from me.

7Howbeit in vain do they worship me, teaching for** doctrines **the commandments of men.

8For laying aside the commandment of God, ye hold the tradition of men, as the washing of pots and cups: and many other such like things ye do.

9And he said unto them, Full well ye reject the commandment of God, that ye may keep your own tradition.

10For Moses said, Honour thy father and thy mother; and, Whoso curseth father or mother, let him die the death:

11But ye say, If a man shall say to his father or mother, It is Corban, that is to say, a gift, by whatsoever thou mightest be profited by me; he shall be free.

12And ye suffer him no more to do ought for his father or his mother;

13Making the word of God of none effect through your tradition, which ye have delivered: and many such like things do ye.
 
Matthew 23 (King James Version)

Matthew 23
1Then spake Jesus to the multitude, and to his disciples,

2Saying The scribes and the Pharisees sit in Moses’ seat:

3All therefore whatsoever they bid you observe, that observe and do; but do not ye after their works: for they say, and do not.

4For they bind heavy burdens and grievous to be borne, and lay them on men’s shoulders; but they themselves will not move them with one of their fingers.

5But all their works they do for to be seen of men: they make broad their phylacteries, and enlarge the borders of their** garments**,

6And love the uppermost rooms at feasts, and the chief seats in the synagogues,

7And greetings in the markets, and to be called of men, Rabbi, Rabbi.

8But be not ye called Rabbi: for one is your Master, even Christ; and all ye are brethren.

9And call no man your father upon the earth: for one is your Father, which is in heaven.

10Neither be ye called masters: for one is your Master, even Christ.

11But he that is greatest among you shall be your servant.

12And whosoever shall exalt himself shall be abased; and he that shall humble himself shall be exalted.

13But woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! for ye shut up the kingdom of heaven against men: for ye neither go in yourselves, neither suffer ye them that are entering to go in.

14Woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! for ye devour widows’ houses, and for a pretence make long prayer: therefore ye shall receive the greater damnation.

15Woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! for ye compass sea and land to make one proselyte, and when he is made, ye make him twofold more the child of hell than yourselves.

16Woe unto you, ye blind guides, which say, Whosoever shall swear by the temple, it is nothing; but whosoever shall swear by the gold of the temple, he is a debtor!

17Ye fools and blind: for whether is greater, the gold, or the temple that sanctifieth the gold?

18And, Whosoever shall swear by the altar, it is nothing; but whosoever sweareth by the gift that is upon it, he is guilty.

19Ye fools and blind: for whether is greater, the gift, or the altar that sanctifieth the gift?

20Whoso therefore shall swear by the altar, sweareth by it, and by all things thereon.

21And whoso shall swear by the temple, sweareth by it, and by him that dwelleth therein.

22And he that shall swear by heaven, sweareth by the throne of God, and by him that sitteth thereon.

23Woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! for ye pay tithe of mint and anise and cummin, and have omitted the weightier matters of the law, judgment, mercy, and faith: these ought ye to have done, and not to leave the other undone.

24Ye blind guides, which strain at a gnat, and swallow a camel.

25Woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! for ye make clean the outside of the cup and of the platter, but within they are full of extortion and excess.

26Thou blind Pharisee, cleanse first that which is within the cup and platter, that the outside of them may be clean also.

27Woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! for ye are like unto whited sepulchres, which indeed appear** beautiful outward**, but are within full of dead men’s bones, and of all uncleanness.

28Even so ye also outwardly appear righteous unto men, but within ye are full of hypocrisy and iniquity.

29Woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! because ye build the tombs of the prophets, and garnish the sepulchres of the righteous,

30And say, If we had been in the days of our fathers, we would not have been partakers with them in the blood of the prophets.

31Wherefore ye be witnesses unto yourselves, that ye are the children of them which killed the prophets.

32Fill ye up then the measure of your fathers.

33Ye serpents, ye generation of vipers, how can ye escape the damnation of hell?

34Wherefore, behold, I send unto you prophets, and wise men, and scribes: and some of them ye shall kill and crucify; and some of them shall ye scourge in your synagogues, and persecute them from city to city:

35That upon you may come all the righteous blood shed upon the earth, from the blood of righteous Abel unto the blood of Zacharias son of Barachias, whom ye slew between the temple and the altar.

36Verily I say unto you, All these things shall come upon this generation.

37O Jerusalem, Jerusalem, thou that killest the prophets, and stonest them which are sent unto thee, how often would I have gathered thy children together, even as a hen gathereth her chickens under her wings, and ye would not!

38Behold, your house is left unto you desolate.

39For I say unto you, Ye shall not see me henceforth, till ye shall say, Blessed is he that cometh in the name of the Lord.
 
SavedByJesus said:
My authority is the Bible…not the 845 pages of the Catechism. .
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Where does the Bible say it is our sole authority
And whose interpretation is the authority
St Paul says the Church not the Bible is pillar and foundation of truth
SavedByJesus said:
No ANATHEMAS in the Bible…this is all made up from manmade traditions to give the RCC more power and keep their followers in bondage…
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1 Cor 16:22 If any man love not our Lord Jesus Christ, let him be anathema, maranatha. (DRV)
SavedByJesus said:
13Making the word of God of none effect through your tradition, which ye have delivered: and many such like things do ye.
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St Paul says to hold onto Tradtion - well do you?
Catholic tradtion is of God not of man.

One tradition is the Canon of Scripture
The Bible doesn’t give us a contents page
We had to look outside the Bible - to the Church!
 
The** Canonical books **of Scripture are divinely inspired by God PERIOD.

John 1
King James Bible

1 In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. 2 The same was in the beginning with God. 3 All things were made by him; and without him was not any thing made that was made. 4 In him was life; and the life was the light of men. 5 And the light shineth in darkness; and the darkness comprehended it not.
6 There was a man sent from God, whose name was John. 7 The same came for a witness, to bear witness of the Light, that all men through him might believe. 8 He was not that Light, but was sent to bear witness of that Light.

9 That was the true Light, which lighteth every man that cometh into the world. 10 He was in the world, and the world was made by him, and the world knew him not. 11 He came unto his own, and his own received him not. 12 But as many as received him, to them gave he power to become the sons of God, even to them that believe on his name: 13 Which were born, not of blood, nor of the will of the flesh, nor of the will of man, but of God.

14 And the Word was made flesh, and dwelt among us, (and we beheld his glory, the glory as of the only begotten of the Father,) full of grace and truth. 15 John bare witness of him, and cried, saying, This was he of whom I spake, He that cometh after me is preferred before me: for he was before me. 16 And of his fulness have all we received, and grace for grace. 17 For the law was given by Moses, but grace and truth came by Jesus Christ. 18 No man hath seen God at any time, the only begotten Son, which is in the bosom of the Father, he hath declared him.

19 And this is the record of John, when the Jews sent priests and Levites from Jerusalem to ask him, Who art thou? 20 And he confessed, and denied not; but confessed, I am not the Christ. 21 And they asked him, What then? Art thou Elias? And he saith, I am not. Art thou that prophet? And he answered, No. 22 Then said they unto him, Who art thou? that we may give an answer to them that sent us. What sayest thou of thyself? 23 He said, I am the voice of one crying in the wilderness, Make straight the way of the Lord, as said the prophet Esaias.

Since the word is Jesus Christ and Jesus Christ is the Word of God this is the ONLY Authority …there is NONE greater.
 
SavedByJesus said:
Matthew 23 (King James Version)
9And call no man your father upon the earth: for one is your Father, which is in heaven.
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Call no man Father

Romans 4:16 Paul calls Abraham the father of us all

1 Corinthians 4:15 Paul says we have not many fathers and that “I have begotten you.”

Philemon 1:10 "I beseech thee for my son, whom I have begotten in my bands, Onesimus

When you have begotten someone you become their father right?

Some modern translations read of 1 Cor 4:15 …whose father I [Paul] became…

2 Timothy 1:2 To Timothy, my dearly beloved son. Grace, mercy and peace, from God the Father and from Christ Jesus our Lord.

Titus 1:4 Titus, my beloved son according to the common faith, grace and peace, from God the Father and from Christ Jesus our Saviour.

If Timothy and Titus are his beloved sons, and Paul is not their biological father, than he must be their father in faith, like a priest.
 
SavedByJesus said:
The** Canonical books **of Scripture are divinely inspired by God PERIOD.
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Says who? And which books?
The Bible doesn’t tell us how many books
The Church did though and she said 73 books

Jesus is the Word made flesh - God - not pages of paper
 
I am quite saddened that you so fervently defend your faith in a manmade religion system and give more authority to it than to GOD’s own Word. 😦

Matthew 23 (King James Version)
9And call no man your father upon the earth: for one is your Father, which is in heaven.

Yes Abraham has been referred to as the father of us all in the OLD Testament. Under NOW Testament GRACE which you reflected in the many verses you quoted here
 
Saved,

It’s been what, 3…4 hours now? You STILL haven’t found that primary source document/citation from the first 1,500 years of Christianity that says something to the effect of “ignore the Church and follow Jesus alone by using the 66 book King James Bible only.”

Pretty please, I’d be delighted if you could find that for me.

1500 a.d. or before.

David
 
Saved,

That is probably one of the lamest things you’ve said all night. The “Call no man father” attack has been refuted so many times for so many years, it boggles the mind that you would still try to use that as an attack. But, since I’ve come to like you over the last few hours, here it is again, just for you 👍.

Call no man Father?:

catholic.com/library/Call_No_Man_Father.asp
 
SavedByJesus said:
LET HIM BE ANATHEMA"

So who is damning who??
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You obviously only know the misrepresentation of the word Anathema that your anti-catholic sources have fed you… Anathema does not indicate a judgement by God, (or the Catholic Church) that someone is condemned to Hell.

Rather it means, (this from encarta, you need to look it up in other reliable sources) somebody or something cursed, denounced, or excommunicated by a religious authority
 
SavedByJesus said:
I am quite saddened that you so fervently defend your faith in a manmade religion system and give more authority to it than to GOD’s own Word. 😦

Matthew 23 (King James Version)
9And call no man your father upon the earth: for one is your Father, which is in heaven.

Yes Abraham has been referred to as the father of us all in the OLD Testament. Under NOW Testament GRACE which you reflected in the many verses you quoted here
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St Paul esentially calls himself a father in faith
So why can’t priests (presbytereos) be called father?
In it’s proper context Jesus doesn’t condemn priests being called father. Captil F Father yes but not father.

Where in the Bible does it tell us there are 66 books?
It doesn’t. So how do you know there are 66 and not 73?
Holy Spirit you might claim but then Catholics and Orthodox would claim the Holy Spirit too, so we can’t all three be right.
 
stand fast and hold the traditions which you have learned whether by word OR by our epistle - 2 Thess 2:15
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**I am glad you brought this up: **

2 Thessalonians 2 (King James Version)

1Now we beseech you, brethren, by the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ, and by our gathering together unto him,

2That ye be not soon shaken in mind, or be troubled, neither by spirit, nor by word, nor by letter as from us, as that the day of Christ is at hand.

3Let no man deceive you by any means: for that day shall not come, except there come a falling away first, and that man of sin be revealed, the son of perdition;

4Who opposeth and exalteth himself above all that is called God, or that is worshipped; so that he as God sitteth in the temple of God, shewing himself that he is God. Again referring to POPE calling himself the Vicar of Christ

5Remember ye not, that, when I was yet with you, I told you these things?

6And now ye know what withholdeth that he might be revealed in his time.

7For the mystery of iniquity doth already work: only he who now letteth will let, until he be taken out of the way.

8And then shall that Wicked be revealed, whom the Lord shall consume with the spirit of his mouth, and shall destroy with the brightness of his coming:

9Even him, whose coming is after the **working of Satan **with all power and signs and lying wonders, Apparitions of Mary, the Eucharist, ect

10And with all deceivableness of unrighteousness in them that perish; because they received not the love of the truth, that they might be saved.

11And for this cause God shall send them strong delusion, that they should believe a lie: Again referring to Roman Catholics

12That they all might be damned who believed not the truth, but had pleasure in unrighteousness. Again referring to Roman Catholics

13But we are bound to give thanks alway to God for you, brethren beloved of the Lord, because God hath from the beginning chosen you to salvation through sanctification of the Spirit and belief of the truth:

14Whereunto he called you by our** gospel**, to the obtaining of the glory of our Lord Jesus Christ. NOT by the traditions of the RCC

15Therefore, brethren, stand fast, and hold the traditions which ye have been taught, whether by word, or our epistle.

16Now our Lord Jesus Christ himself, and God, even our Father, which hath loved us, and hath given us everlasting consolation and good hope through grace,

17Comfort your hearts, and stablish you in every good word and work.

Make no mistake…GOD’s Word and the Disciples as the only inspired words from GOD…period.
 
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