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happilycatholic
Guest
You are bordering blasphemy, watch it please.
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U
underdog
Guest
You have it all backwards, Peter did not want Jesus to die. Actually, the Apostle Paul brings truth in a human argument way too.
Jesus Foretells His Death and Resurrection
From that time Jesus began to show his disciples that he must go to Jerusalem and suffer many things from the elders and chief priests and scribes, and be killed, and on the third day be raised. And Peter took him aside and began to rebuke him, saying, “Far be it from you, Lord! This shall never happen to you.” But he turned and said to Peter, “Get behind me, Satan! You are a hindrance to me. For you are not setting your mind on the things of God, but on the things of man.” – Matthew 16
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happilycatholic
Guest
It didn’t matter what Peter wanted. It wasn’t Peter talking. It isn’t you talking when you put suicide out there as a possibility either. Be careful.
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underdog
Guest
In a biblical sense, the ultimate person behind the death of Christ is either God the Father, or Christ, or both. Before everybody flips, consider all the Scriptures first.
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AshleyBelle
Guest
The "person" is God the father, son and Holy Spirit. Is it not either/or, but three in one:)
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underdog
Guest
Sure, but I’m not sure God the Spirit can be traced to the death of Christ.The “person” is God the father, son and Holy Spirit. Is it not either/or, but three in one
U
underdog
Guest
He Who did Not Spare His Own Son But Gave Him Up for us all, how will He not also with Him Graciously give us all things?” (Romans 8:32)
“For God so Loved the world, That He Gave His Only Son, That Everyone Believing In Him should not perish but have Eternal Life.” (John 3:16)
“for truly in this city there were gathered together Against Your Holy Servant Jesus, Whom You Anointed, Both Herod and Pontius Pilate, Along With the Gentiles and the peoples of Israel, To Do Whatever Your Hand and Your Plan Had Predestined To Take Place.” (Acts 4:27-28)
“Men of Israel, hear these words: Jesus of Nazareth, a Man attested to you by God with mighty works and wonders and signs that God did Through Him in your midst, as you yourselves know –
this Jesus, Delivered Up According To The Definite Plan And Foreknowledge Of God, you Crucified and Killed By the hands of lawless men.” (Acts 2:22-23)
“By this we know Love, That He Laid Down His Life for us, and we ought to lay down our lives for the Brothers.” (1 John 3:16)
“For this reason the Father Loves Me, Because I Lay Down My Life That I May Take It Up Again. No One Takes It From Me, But I Lay It Down Of My Own Accord. I have Authority To Lay It Down, and I have Authority To Take It Up Again. This Charge I have Received from My Father.” (John 10:17-18)
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underdog
Guest
Isaiah 53
The Suffering Servant
Who has believed our message?
And to whom has the arm of the LORD been revealed?
For He grew up before Him like a tender shoot,
And like a root out of parched ground;
He has no stately form or majesty
That we should look upon Him,
Nor appearance that we should be attracted to Him.
He was despised and forsaken of men,
A man of sorrows and acquainted with grief;
And like one from whom men hide their face
He was despised, and we did not esteem Him.
Surely our griefs He Himself bore,
And our sorrows He carried;
Yet we ourselves esteemed Him stricken,
Smitten of God, and afflicted.
But He was pierced through for our transgressions,
He was crushed for our iniquities;
The chastening for our well-being fell upon Him,
And by His scourging we are healed.
All of us like sheep have gone astray,
Each of us has turned to his own way;
But the LORD has caused the iniquity of us all
To fall on Him.
He was oppressed and He was afflicted,
Yet He did not open His mouth;
Like a lamb that is led to slaughter,
And like a sheep that is silent before its shearers,
So He did not open His mouth.
By oppression and judgment He was taken away;
And as for His generation, who considered
That He was cut off out of the land of the living
For the transgression of my people, to whom the stroke was due?
His grave was assigned with wicked men,
Yet He was with a rich man in His death,
Because He had done no violence,
Nor was there any deceit in His mouth.
But the LORD was pleased
To crush Him, putting Him to grief;
If He would render Himself as a guilt offering,
He will see His offspring,
He will prolong His days,
And the good pleasure of the LORD will prosper in His hand.
As a result of the anguish of His soul,
He will see it and be satisfied;
By His knowledge the Righteous One,
My Servant, will justify the many,
As He will bear their iniquities.
Therefore, I will allot Him a portion with the great,
And He will divide the booty with the strong;
Because He poured out Himself to death,
And was numbered with the transgressors;
Yet He Himself bore the sin of many,
And interceded for the transgressors.
The Suffering Servant
Who has believed our message?
And to whom has the arm of the LORD been revealed?
For He grew up before Him like a tender shoot,
And like a root out of parched ground;
He has no stately form or majesty
That we should look upon Him,
Nor appearance that we should be attracted to Him.
He was despised and forsaken of men,
A man of sorrows and acquainted with grief;
And like one from whom men hide their face
He was despised, and we did not esteem Him.
Surely our griefs He Himself bore,
And our sorrows He carried;
Yet we ourselves esteemed Him stricken,
Smitten of God, and afflicted.
But He was pierced through for our transgressions,
He was crushed for our iniquities;
The chastening for our well-being fell upon Him,
And by His scourging we are healed.
All of us like sheep have gone astray,
Each of us has turned to his own way;
But the LORD has caused the iniquity of us all
To fall on Him.
He was oppressed and He was afflicted,
Yet He did not open His mouth;
Like a lamb that is led to slaughter,
And like a sheep that is silent before its shearers,
So He did not open His mouth.
By oppression and judgment He was taken away;
And as for His generation, who considered
That He was cut off out of the land of the living
For the transgression of my people, to whom the stroke was due?
His grave was assigned with wicked men,
Yet He was with a rich man in His death,
Because He had done no violence,
Nor was there any deceit in His mouth.
But the LORD was pleased
To crush Him, putting Him to grief;
If He would render Himself as a guilt offering,
He will see His offspring,
He will prolong His days,
And the good pleasure of the LORD will prosper in His hand.
As a result of the anguish of His soul,
He will see it and be satisfied;
By His knowledge the Righteous One,
My Servant, will justify the many,
As He will bear their iniquities.
Therefore, I will allot Him a portion with the great,
And He will divide the booty with the strong;
Because He poured out Himself to death,
And was numbered with the transgressors;
Yet He Himself bore the sin of many,
And interceded for the transgressors.
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underdog
Guest
Please reflect on the foreshadow event when God the Father commanded Abraham to sacrifce Issac on the altar. Who commanded this act of death?
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AshleyBelle
Guest
Yes… the Father’s will, in perfect unison with Christ, God made flesh
What is it you are debating?
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inJESUS
Guest
I have **authority **to lay it down, and I have **authority **to take it up again.
Suicide is a sin because we have no authority.
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happilycatholic
Guest
Okay, you need to come clean here. Either you are bored and just baiting for conversation or you have some ligitimate agenda here.
Which is it?
Which is it?
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underdog
Guest
More scripture…
“Jesus answered him, ‘You would have No authority Over Me at all Unless It Had Been Given you From Above. Therefore he who delivered me over to you has the greater sin’” (John 19:11)
“Have this mind among yourselves, which is yours in Christ Jesus, Who, though He was in the Form of God, did not count Equality with God a thing to be grasped, but Made Himself nothing, Taking the Form of a servant, Being born in the Likeness of men. And being found in human Form, He Humbled Himself By Becoming Obedient To The Point Of Death, Even Death On A Cross. Therefore God has highly exalted Him and bestowed on Him the Name that is above every name, so that at the Name of Jesus every knee should bow, in Heaven and on earth and under the earth, and every tongue confess that Jesus Christ Is Lord, To the Glory Of God the Father.” (Philippians 2:5-11)
“Because even Christ once Suffered Concerning sins, the Just for the unjust, That He might bring us to God; indeed Being Put To Death in the flesh, but made alive in the Spirit” (1 Peter 3:18)
“‘She will bear a Son, and you shall call His Name Jesus, Because He Will Save His People from their sins.’ All this took place to Fulfill what the Lord had Spoken by the prophet: ‘Behold, the virgin shall conceive and bear a Son, and they shall call His Name Immanuel" (which means, God With Us).” (Matthew 1:21-23)
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underdog
Guest
That’s why I said on a human argument only. I don’t know any other way to describe what Jesus Christ did for us, do you? Here, this is a better way to receive this truth.
Romans 5
Peace with God Through Faith
5:1 Therefore, since we have been justified by faith, we [1] have peace with God through our Lord Jesus Christ. 2 Through him we have also obtained access by faith [2] into this grace in which we stand, and we [3] rejoice [4] in hope of the glory of God. 3 More than that, we rejoice in our sufferings, knowing that suffering produces endurance, 4 and endurance produces character, and character produces hope, 5 and hope does not put us to shame, because God’s love has been poured into our hearts through the Holy Spirit who has been given to us.
6 For while we were still weak, at the right time Christ died for the ungodly. 7 For one will scarcely die for a righteous person—though perhaps for a good person one would dare even to die— 8 but God shows his love for us in that while we were still sinners, Christ died for us. 9 Since, therefore, we have now been justified by his blood, much more shall we be saved by him from the wrath of God. 10 For if while we were enemies we were reconciled to God by the death of his Son, much more, now that we are reconciled, shall we be saved by his life. 11 More than that, we also rejoice in God through our Lord Jesus Christ, through whom we have now received reconciliation. - Rom 5
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happilycatholic
Guest
**Suicide is the taking of one’s own life. Jesus GAVE His life, it was not taken by Him or anyone else. **
At what moment did God relinquish His power in order for Jesus or anyone else to take His life? Didn’t happen. It was given freely and it’s that simple.
**Jesus is always asking us to “receive” Him into our hearts. We take nothing, we RECEIVE Him. We receive communion we do not take it. It is given, a gift. **
At what moment did God relinquish His power in order for Jesus or anyone else to take His life? Didn’t happen. It was given freely and it’s that simple.
**Jesus is always asking us to “receive” Him into our hearts. We take nothing, we RECEIVE Him. We receive communion we do not take it. It is given, a gift. **
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AshleyBelle
Guest
Yes, Catholics agree with all the scripture you have posted
But we are still not sure why you are asking these questions, or even what it is you are questioning.
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happilycatholic
Guest
Would it be offensive if I ask how old you are? I apologize if it is offensive. I don’t intend it that way.
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underdog
Guest
What does that matter. Focus on this one:
By this we know Love, That He Laid Down His Life for us, and we ought to lay down our lives for the Brothers.” (1 John 3:16)
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underdog
Guest
Why does it seem everyone is so offended that God would send His Son to this earth to suffer and die. We all agree that it was the Father’s will that Jesus would suffer and die. Maybe we should start asking the question why? Why did Jesus die for us?
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happilycatholic
Guest
Okay sweetie, I’m just going to say this…
If you don’t get to a point quick and in a hurry you’re going to lose everyone’s attention cause we all agree with you up until the point where you start insinuating that God killed Jesus or something like that. That is baiting and people here don’t take kindly to it. But then again there are people here that like to do that kind of thing.
**Now, is there a point to all this or are you just rambling? **
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