Who knows the contents of the Bible better, Catholics or non-Catholics?

[JRKH]

Reuben J and iloveangels,

If I may toss something in here…I once heard a talk by a Catholic convert who said that Catholics really know a lot about the bible…but they don’t know how to find it. Protestants (at least his tradition) were able to quote “chapter and verse” but it was more selective.

We sometimes forget that, so long as we go to Church regularly, we are exposed to large portions of Scripture - if we actually listen. Each weekday there are two readings and every Sunday there are three. However - We never hear the precise location. We only hear, “A reading from the book of…”, or “the Gospel of…”

As someone else pointed out earlier…the OP question cannot really be answered because of no one can really give more than simply their own belief based on their own observations.
So this one is mine…

Peace
James

 

[Reuben_J]

Reuben J and iloveangels,

If I may toss something in here…I once heard a talk by a Catholic convert who said that Catholics really know a lot about the bible…but they don’t know how to find it. Protestants (at least his tradition) were able to quote “chapter and verse” but it was more selective.

We sometimes forget that, so long as we go to Church regularly, we are exposed to large portions of Scripture - if we actually listen. Each weekday there are two readings and every Sunday there are three. However - We never hear the precise location. We only hear, “A reading from the book of…”, or “the Gospel of…”

As someone else pointed out earlier…the OP question cannot really be answered because of no one can really give more than simply their own belief based on their own observations.
So this one is mine…

Peace
James

This seems to be my position as well but you are saying it better.

Personally I know many Catholics today who use the mass readings as their daily supply of the word for prayer and meditation purpose. These people seem to be very conversant with the Bible and are able even to quote Biblical verses. But perhaps there are Catholics who are ‘afraid’ of the Bible, though I have never encountered one personally.

I think I would rather that I understand the Bible in context or overview what each book or even passage means rather than memorizing certain verses for the sake to be seen as being able to quote them.

Anyway, the question of who know the Bible better cannot be answered with certainty without the risk of over generalization unless one make a thorough studies of the Catholics world wide of their usage of the Bible. The same can be said of the Protestants too.

 

[JRKH]

This seems to be my position as well but you are saying it better.

Personally I know many Catholics today who use the mass readings as their daily supply of the word for prayer and meditation purpose. These people seem to be very conversant with the Bible and are able even to quote Biblical verses. But perhaps there are Catholics who are ‘afraid’ of the Bible, though I have never encountered one personally.

I think I would rather that I understand the Bible in context or overview what each book or even passage means rather than memorizing certain verses for the sake to be seen as being able to quote them.

Anyway, the question of who know the Bible better cannot be answered with certainty without the risk of over generalization unless one make a thorough studies of the Catholics world wide of their usage of the Bible. The same can be said of the Protestants too.

Agreed…
And besides the risk of over-generalizing is the risk of presenting a caricature of reality.
Perhaps the most common caricature is the “street corner evangelist” spouting verse after verse and the Catholic with a “deer in the headlights” look because they cannot respond with counter points likewise quoting chapter and verse.

In listening to Evangelical converts to Catholicism, I hear over and over about how “Catholics were easy marks for evangelization”. I just heard a fellow last night talk about how he was trained to, “tell Catholics what they believed, why they were wrong and what to do about it”. Of course not all protestants do this…but it can be difficult to defend against especially when caught off guard.

Of course the above does NOT really demonstrate that one “knows the bible” better than the other - yet it is a fairly common scenario and, as I say, something of a caricature of the matter.
But as you rightly say - truly answering the OP question would require a very large scale (impractical) study.

Peace
James

 

[iloveangels]

Reuben J and iloveangels,

If I may toss something in here…I once heard a talk by a Catholic convert who said that Catholics really know a lot about the bible…but they don’t know how to find it. Protestants (at least his tradition) were able to quote “chapter and verse” but it was more selective.

We sometimes forget that, so long as we go to Church regularly, we are exposed to large portions of Scripture - if we actually listen. Each weekday there are two readings and every Sunday there are three. However - We never hear the precise location. We only hear, “A reading from the book of…”, or “the Gospel of…”

As someone else pointed out earlier…the OP question cannot really be answered because of no one can really give more than simply their own belief based on their own observations.
So this one is mine…

Peace
James

Not so. And one very real piece of evidence is how seldom you see Catholics use Scripture as a teaching or discussion tool. They don’t.

Also if you go even to large Catholic bookstores, you won’t find decent Scripture study tools. You usually have to buy them from Protestant bookstores or online. Most Catholics don’t really study Scripture. Not really. Sometimes they play at it, not knowing what’s involved.

 

[asd72]

Not so. And one very real piece of evidence is how seldom you see Catholics use Scripture as a teaching or discussion tool. They don’t.

Also if you go even to large Catholic bookstores, you won’t find decent Scripture study tools. You usually have to buy them from Protestant bookstores or online. Most Catholics don’t really study Scripture. Not really. Sometimes they play at it, not knowing what’s involved.

Well my experience is different. Since I have become a Catholic I have finally found a wealth of information on understanding scripture. The Catechism of the Catholic Church, other Church documents, the Ignatius Catholic Study Bible, the Navarre Bible commentaries. Books, online and Parish studies from ‘St Pauls centre of Biblical theology’ with Scott Hahn, Homilies and other information at ‘Word on Fire’ with Fr Robert Barron, a wealth of other contemporary authors, plus loads from the Church Fathers and others throughout Church history on line.

The Catholic Church very much understands scripture. It has the fullness of the truth. And it also has a wealth of apologetic material to respond to the fundamentalist/evangelical groups most often drawing Catholics away.

 

[JRKH]

Not so.

Which part “not so”? Not so that Catholics are exposed to large parts of Scripture? Not so that most Catholics (if they were to think about it) actually know what is in the Bible…even if they can’t find it within the bible? Not so that the OP’s question can’t really be answered without a large scale study?

And one very real piece of evidence is how seldom you see Catholics use Scripture as a teaching or discussion tool. They don’t.

I don’t know that if necessarily follows from this that Catholics don’t know the contents of the Bible (I’m referencing the thread title here).

Also if you go even to large Catholic bookstores, you won’t find decent Scripture study tools. You usually have to buy them from Protestant bookstores or online. Most Catholics don’t really study Scripture. Not really. Sometimes they play at it, not knowing what’s involved.

Again - I’m not sure that this means that Catholics don’t “know the contents of the bible”, which is what this thread is about.
But I do agree that, based on what I have read here at CAF there does seem to be a need for a good Catholic Bible study set. Of course we have the Catechism that references Scripture extensively - It would be equally good to have a Bible that references the Catechism - In other words a way to cross reference the two things.

That said…I think that most Catholics probably don’t feel the need for Scripture study in the same way that Protestants do. The Catechism pretty much has us covered. Maybe that’s not good…But there it is…

Peace
James

 

[JonNC]

Not so. And one very real piece of evidence is how seldom you see Catholics use Scripture as a teaching or discussion tool. They don’t.

Also if you go even to large Catholic bookstores, you won’t find decent Scripture study tools. You usually have to buy them from Protestant bookstores or online. Most Catholics don’t really study Scripture. Not really. Sometimes they play at it, not knowing what’s involved.

Sticking my nose in…

The Catholic Mass is all scripture. The Catholic Catechism is filled with scriptural references. The fact that they also use Sacred tradition does not mean they ignore or neglect scripture.

Jon

 

[iloveangels]

Well my experience is different. Since I have become a Catholic I have finally found a wealth of information on understanding scripture. The Catechism of the Catholic Church, other Church documents, the Ignatius Catholic Study Bible, the Navarre Bible commentaries. Books, online and Parish studies from ‘St Pauls centre of Biblical theology’ with Scott Hahn, Homilies and other information at ‘Word on Fire’ with Fr Robert Barron, a wealth of other contemporary authors, plus loads from the Church Fathers and others throughout Church history on line.

The Catholic Church very much understands scripture. It has the fullness of the truth. And it also has a wealth of apologetic material to respond to the fundamentalist/evangelical groups most often drawing Catholics away.

I didn’t say that the CHURCH doesn’t understand Scripture. I said that the average Catholic has no clue about Scripture. Those are two entirely different ideas.

 

[iloveangels]

Sticking my nose in…

The Catholic Mass is all scripture. The Catholic Catechism is filled with scriptural references. The fact that they also use Sacred tradition does not mean they ignore or neglect scripture.

Jon

Most Catholics don’t comprehend that Jon. They just listen to the words and they go in one ear and out the other most of the time. People are far more interested in whose saying the mass and what people have on. I think you’d be shocked to see how few Catholics can actually identify which phrase from the mass comes from which book in a good Christian library.

Nor is is Scripture study. Very few Catholics ever really “unpack” that.

 

[iloveangels]

Which part “not so”? Not so that Catholics are exposed to large parts of Scripture? Not so that most Catholics (if they were to think about it) actually know what is in the Bible…even if they can’t find it within the bible? Not so that the OP’s question can’t really be answered without a large scale study?

It’s not the case that the average Catholic studies Scripture. Most of them are complete strangers to it.

I don’t know that if necessarily follows from this that Catholics don’t know the contents of the Bible (I’m referencing the thread title here).

It’s a very, very good indication that Scripture isn’t in their frame of reference. When they think about religion, for the average Catholic, the subject of Scripture doesn’t even come up in a serious way.

Again - I’m not sure that this means that Catholics don’t “know the contents of the bible”, which is what this thread is about.
But I do agree that, based on what I have read here at CAF there does seem to be a need for a good Catholic Bible study set. Of course we have the Catechism that references Scripture extensively - It would be equally good to have a Bible that references the Catechism - In other words a way to cross reference the two things.

People don’t generally know the Catechism either. And seeing a few references at the bottom of a page doesn’t constitute bible study, at any rate.

That said…I think that most Catholics probably don’t feel the need for Scripture study in the same way that Protestants do. The Catechism pretty much has us covered. Maybe that’s not good…But there it is…

Peace
James

I think that this is true, but only because of something important you said, “pretty much has us covered.” That’s a key phrase. Catholics think they don’t have to do anything or know anything. They think they can act out in an outrageous fashion as long as they belong to the “club.” It’s a huge problem.

 

[Reuben_J]

"JRKH:

That said…I think that most Catholics probably don’t feel the need for Scripture study in the same way that Protestants do. The Catechism pretty much has us covered. Maybe that’s not good…But there it is…

People don’t generally know the Catechism either. And seeing a few references at the bottom of a page doesn’t constitute bible study, at any rate.

I think that this is true, but only because of something important you said, “pretty much has us covered.” That’s a key phrase. Catholics think they don’t have to do anything or know anything. They think they can act out in an outrageous fashion as long as they belong to the “club.” It’s a huge problem.

Beside the Bible, there are two sources of Bible study that we have at the minimum – (1) the readings of the mass and (2) the CCC.

The readings of the mass:
Even if Catholics are too lazy to look them up in the Bible and even to think about it, the homilies on the readings would at least bring us to mind the content of the readings. Granted not all priests would do the homilies like how we want them to be but at least we certainly are exposed to the word of God there.

Like I said, there are definitely Catholics would not just leave the word behind at the mass but would go out and have them as memory verses for prayers, reflection and meditation for the day. To say that Catholics do not take the readings seriously is certainly a generalization.

The Catechism of the Catholic Church:
It is easy to speak of the CCC here but it is not likely that we can make good comment of it if we have not read it. So probably basic to this is: have we read the CCC?

My idea is, if we have read the CCC and maybe also refer to the supporting Biblical footnotes verses, it would be very useful indeed. That’s the idea, what do we need more as an ordinary Catholic? Sure we can get further than the CCC but what level of Bible knowledge do we really need as an ordinary Catholic to be qualified to know the Bible?

Still I do find that there are many Catholic families that I came across who own the CCC and refer to it when necessary.

I think this is the issue here. We are not talking about Bible scholars or those graduating from Bible colleges but Bible knowledge of ordinary Catholic. The CCC covers everything about our faith and is pretty much supported by the Bible. If one read the Bible and read the CCC, generally one should be quite clear about the Bible and where our faith comes from.

While it may be good to dissect every Biblical verse but is not it more important to know the context of the passage and the verse? To know the content of the Bible and to know where to find the main stories? I mean, not just the verses because these are too micro but at least knowing where to find the main stories.

At the mass yesterday, the Archbishop who was the celebrant again reminded us about the Nicean Creed because this is the year of faith. Everything about our faith is stated in the Creed and asked us to go through it and to know what it means. If the Creed covers so much, what more the CCC where the Creed is just a small portion of it?

So my question is, what level of Bible knowledge that we must have in order that we can say we know the Bible? What is Bible study? Can we have Bible study from the mass readings? There seems to be full of Bible passages in the missal to be studied and to be remembered. Is Bible study for the sake of merely knowing the Bible or to live out its teaching? Can we be too preoccupied with a Bible study like trying to pass an examination and yet do not live it out?

The late Pope JPII encouraged Catholics to study the word by using the *Lectio Divina *methodology – a practical strategy to know the word and to live it out in our lives. In the place where I live, this has caught on many Catholics and small booklets on daily readings and reflection do sell quite well. I thought this is one indication that there are Catholics who are interested in the word though they may not be Bible scholars.

I didn’t say that the CHURCH doesn’t understand Scripture.** I said that the average Catholic has no clue about Scripture.** Those are two entirely different ideas.

I would be interested to know how you come to this conclusion. Is it from a study or reliable source?

 

[JRKH]

I think that this is true, but only because of something important you said, “pretty much has us covered.” That’s a key phrase. Catholics think they don’t have to do anything or know anything. They think they can act out in an outrageous fashion as long as they belong to the “club.” It’s a huge problem.

As much as we might go round and round about some of the other things…I have to say that I tend to agree with you here.
There is a laxity among many of the laity in the Church that is a serious problem.

I’ve been reading Church history lately and am reminded of the number of times that the Catholic Church (and the Jewish nation before her) has been called to repentance. To put on sack-cloth and ashes as it were.
I get the feeling more and more that we are overdue for just such a call…

Peace
James

 

[choliks]

IMO, the question posted by the OP, though interesting, can lead to pride and contempt. I don’t find pitting Catholics and Non-Catholics against each other (“who’s better?”) helpful in promoting dialogue.

Fortunately, there are level-headed posters in this thread.

 

[iloveangels]

IMO, the question posted by the OP, though interesting, can lead to pride and contempt. I don’t find pitting Catholics and Non-Catholics against each other (“who’s better?”) helpful in promoting dialogue.

Fortunately, there are level-headed posters in this thread.

Catholics don’t like to hear that they’re not perfect. Particularly they don’t like to hear about their lousy Bible-reading habits. But I can’t help that. It is what it is.

 

[JonNC]

=iloveangels;10140147]Most Catholics don’t comprehend that Jon. They just listen to the words and they go in one ear and out the other most of the time. People are far more interested in whose saying the mass and what people have on. I think you’d be shocked to see how few Catholics can actually identify which phrase from the mass comes from which book in a good Christian library.

Don’t plan on patenting this problem, as we Lutherans have a similar problem.
The Lutheran Service Book now provides scripture references throughout the liturgy as a remedy, though one has to actually read the references.

Jon

 

[JonNC]

=choliks;10141305]IMO, the question posted by the OP, though interesting, can lead to pride and contempt. I don’t find pitting Catholics and Non-Catholics against each other (“who’s better?”) helpful in promoting dialogue.

Well said.

Fortunately, there are level-headed posters in this thread.

Indeed.
Jon

 

[Isaiah45_9]

That’s a good point. Is the Bible the Word of God because the Catholic Church canonized it? Or is the Bible the Word of God because it is simply God-breathed revelation from above in which Christians already knew it to be as coming from above? For example, OT Scripture was used by Jesus and the Apostles as Scripture way before the Catholic Church declared to it to be canonized.

They also had to explain what it really meant because not even the Pharisees and like teachers of the law were able to truly understand what it meant. As such, God chose a group of men to go and make disciples.

So in reality, no one knows the contents of the Bible better than any other. However, God in His infinite Wisdom DID chose men to help guide us and continues to chose men to such guidance.

No man is an Island, entire of itself.

The bell tolls not for me, but for Him.

I had to use some “poetic” license

 

[PJM]

=Christian Unity;10072903]It’s just a question:

Who knows the contents of the Bible better, the average Catholic or average non-Catholic?

If by “knowing” one actually means KNOWING as it what it actually teaches: Catholics!

If by “knowing” you mean can spout more verses from memory: that I grant you could and perhaps is Protestnats and even more likely Mormons

Continued Blessings,
pat/PJM

 

[MartinJordan]

If by “knowing” one actually means KNOWING as it what it actually teaches: Catholics!

If by “knowing” you mean can spout more verses from memory: that I grant you could and perhaps is Protestnats and even more likely Mormons

Continued Blessings,
pat/PJM

Well said.

I say that knowing the Bible is not the same as recalling ever single verse. To know the Bible is realize it has one single Truth. Recalling a verse, well even Hindus can do it.

MJ

 

[Miriam1947]

Not so. And one very real piece of evidence is how seldom you see Catholics use Scripture as a teaching or discussion tool. They don’t.

Also if you go even to large Catholic bookstores, you won’t find decent Scripture study tools. You usually have to buy them from Protestant bookstores or online. Most Catholics don’t really study Scripture. Not really. Sometimes they play at it, not knowing what’s involved.

I am a co-owner of a Catholic book store and we have many study Bibles and sell lots of Bibles on a weekly basis. I even carry the KJV for our local Protestants.

We sell the Catechism of the Catholic Church as well and are constantly re-ordering.

You sound almost as if you dislike your fellow Catholics because you certainly do generalize.

"Most Catholics don’t really study Scripture. Not really. Sometimes they play at it, not knowing what’s involved."

What is your source for your statements.