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patrick457
Guest
IMHO there are times when the best way to deal with it is to shake the dust off your sandals.
- Status
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patrick457
Guest
There was this two-volume manga by animator Yasuhiko Yoshikazu entitled Jesus, which is basically the life of Jesus told from the point of view of Joshua, a young disciple who ends up becoming the ‘good thief’ who was crucified with Him. Sounds good, right? Unfortunately, let’s say Yasuhiko’s take on the Jesus story is controversial by orthodox Christian standards. (If I could link to a sub, here it is and judge for yourself.)
Normally I would include a spoiler tag here, but since we all know the story…
We first encounter Jesus teaching in the synagogue about the ‘Abomination of Desolation’ (cf. Mark 13:14-36). A mysterious one-eyed man named Barabbas tells a young man named Joshua to spy on Jesus further, the former having his own personal agendas: attempting to sell the unwitting Jesus as the Messiah to the public so they can have a rallying cry against Rome. (Just in case you don’t know, Barabbas is actually a Zealot here.)
Joshua, at first hesitant to do what Barabbas has ordered him to do, eventually soon finds himself genuinely attached to Jesus after seeing the latter dine with a tax collector (Mark 2:13-17) and tending to his ill sister (with Barabbas of course ordering Joshua to cement Jesus’ popularity further by embellishing the story a bit - by saying that his sister was healed miraculously by a mere touch
). Leaving his family, he goes off to follow Jesus, to whom he now puts genuine faith: now there is no doubt in Joshua’s mind that Jesus is someone who will change the world. The fact that they both share the same name (Jesus is merely the Greek form of the Hebrew/Aramaic name Yeshua, an abbreviation of Yehoshua = ‘Joshua’) and the same origins - they were both born into a family of carpenters - may have also factored into it.
During the (highly ambiguously portrayed) feeding of the five thousand (Mark 6:30-43), the fact that “there was a movement which sought to put Jesus on the Messiah’s throne, not out of love for him, but for their personal agendas” was driven home to Joshua’s mind: it seems that another disciple, a “shrewd merchant” (as per Barabbas) named Judas Iscariot, may have his own plans for Jesus. Another thing which struck Joshua hard was the fact that there were people who only cared about the miracles and not about Jesus’ person or His teachings, as is evidenced by the harsh treatment Jesus received in Nazareth (Mark 6:1-6; Luke 4:16-30).
A word about the disciples here. Apart from the believing Joshua and the shrewd Judas, the other disciples very much the comic relief. True to the running theme in Mark’s gospel of the “blind disciples” who could not comprehend despite their privileged positions, the Jesus’ male followers are portrayed as a rather motley, fickle, somewhat one-dimensional crew, with Peter being shown as a humorously-temperamental man with delusions of grandeur (he imagines himself to be Jesus’ leading disciple).
To go on: Jesus and the disciples go to Magdala, where they stay in Mary Magdalene’s house. Jesus asks the (male) disciples to leave the room, since He wished to ‘have a talk’ with Mary. The disciples don’t put up kindly with this (Peter suggests that Mary, “a filthy whore,” is actually Jesus’ lover); Joshua himself is badly shaken upon seeing the two together - it brought to him memories of his mother, who was stoned to death for adultery (which the young Joshua actually witnessed).
Barabbas eventually meets with Jesus face-to-face late in the night: Barabbas suggests to Jesus that “the time” has come for Him to go to Jerusalem. Jesus is apparently aware of Barabbas’ stalking and asks if the latter plans to kill Him. Barabbas denies this and asks if this information comes from Simon (the Zealot) or from Judas, whereupon He warns Jesus of the latter - Barabbas thinks that Judas was a spy sent by Herod (Antipas).
Barabbas attempts to convince Jesus that He is the Messiah and that it is time for Him to travel to Jerusalem. Jesus is hesitant (because of His lack of success in Nazareth) and outright refuses Barabbas’ offer to show the people signs - since that was what Satan also wanted (cf. Matthew 4:1-11; Luke 4:1-13). As Jesus leaves the scene, Barabbas tells Jesus of Lazarus, whose life is in imminent danger.
“Lazarus of Bethany waits for you! Lazarus who was one of your companions, Lazarus who was one of John’s best disciples. Lazarus is now fighting in Jerusalem, alone!
The priests of the temple of Jerusalem, who hope to gain favor from the pagans who lead the people astray and oppress them [by flattering them], are all against him. He is waiting for the coming of the Son of Man, all by himself!
If this goes on, Lazarus will soon be killed by either the Roman governor Pilate or the high priest Caiaphas. Are you going to do nothing about it?
Even the great John has been killed! It makes no sense that you, who made John say that he is unable to untie your sandal-strap, will forever stay in this Galilean countryside putting up with these fools!”
Normally I would include a spoiler tag here, but since we all know the story…
We first encounter Jesus teaching in the synagogue about the ‘Abomination of Desolation’ (cf. Mark 13:14-36). A mysterious one-eyed man named Barabbas tells a young man named Joshua to spy on Jesus further, the former having his own personal agendas: attempting to sell the unwitting Jesus as the Messiah to the public so they can have a rallying cry against Rome. (Just in case you don’t know, Barabbas is actually a Zealot here.)
Joshua, at first hesitant to do what Barabbas has ordered him to do, eventually soon finds himself genuinely attached to Jesus after seeing the latter dine with a tax collector (Mark 2:13-17) and tending to his ill sister (with Barabbas of course ordering Joshua to cement Jesus’ popularity further by embellishing the story a bit - by saying that his sister was healed miraculously by a mere touch
). Leaving his family, he goes off to follow Jesus, to whom he now puts genuine faith: now there is no doubt in Joshua’s mind that Jesus is someone who will change the world. The fact that they both share the same name (Jesus is merely the Greek form of the Hebrew/Aramaic name Yeshua, an abbreviation of Yehoshua = ‘Joshua’) and the same origins - they were both born into a family of carpenters - may have also factored into it.During the (highly ambiguously portrayed) feeding of the five thousand (Mark 6:30-43), the fact that “there was a movement which sought to put Jesus on the Messiah’s throne, not out of love for him, but for their personal agendas” was driven home to Joshua’s mind: it seems that another disciple, a “shrewd merchant” (as per Barabbas) named Judas Iscariot, may have his own plans for Jesus. Another thing which struck Joshua hard was the fact that there were people who only cared about the miracles and not about Jesus’ person or His teachings, as is evidenced by the harsh treatment Jesus received in Nazareth (Mark 6:1-6; Luke 4:16-30).
A word about the disciples here. Apart from the believing Joshua and the shrewd Judas, the other disciples very much the comic relief. True to the running theme in Mark’s gospel of the “blind disciples” who could not comprehend despite their privileged positions, the Jesus’ male followers are portrayed as a rather motley, fickle, somewhat one-dimensional crew, with Peter being shown as a humorously-temperamental man with delusions of grandeur (he imagines himself to be Jesus’ leading disciple).
To go on: Jesus and the disciples go to Magdala, where they stay in Mary Magdalene’s house. Jesus asks the (male) disciples to leave the room, since He wished to ‘have a talk’ with Mary. The disciples don’t put up kindly with this (Peter suggests that Mary, “a filthy whore,” is actually Jesus’ lover); Joshua himself is badly shaken upon seeing the two together - it brought to him memories of his mother, who was stoned to death for adultery (which the young Joshua actually witnessed).
Barabbas eventually meets with Jesus face-to-face late in the night: Barabbas suggests to Jesus that “the time” has come for Him to go to Jerusalem. Jesus is apparently aware of Barabbas’ stalking and asks if the latter plans to kill Him. Barabbas denies this and asks if this information comes from Simon (the Zealot) or from Judas, whereupon He warns Jesus of the latter - Barabbas thinks that Judas was a spy sent by Herod (Antipas).
Barabbas attempts to convince Jesus that He is the Messiah and that it is time for Him to travel to Jerusalem. Jesus is hesitant (because of His lack of success in Nazareth) and outright refuses Barabbas’ offer to show the people signs - since that was what Satan also wanted (cf. Matthew 4:1-11; Luke 4:1-13). As Jesus leaves the scene, Barabbas tells Jesus of Lazarus, whose life is in imminent danger.
“Lazarus of Bethany waits for you! Lazarus who was one of your companions, Lazarus who was one of John’s best disciples. Lazarus is now fighting in Jerusalem, alone!
The priests of the temple of Jerusalem, who hope to gain favor from the pagans who lead the people astray and oppress them [by flattering them], are all against him. He is waiting for the coming of the Son of Man, all by himself!
If this goes on, Lazarus will soon be killed by either the Roman governor Pilate or the high priest Caiaphas. Are you going to do nothing about it?
Even the great John has been killed! It makes no sense that you, who made John say that he is unable to untie your sandal-strap, will forever stay in this Galilean countryside putting up with these fools!”
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patrick457
Guest
Afterwards, Jesus leaves with Peter, James, and John and heads to the mountain of Tabor (Mark 9:2-8). By the time they got down the mountain a change has come upon the four men: even the brash, loudmouth Peter could only mutter about seeing Elijah atop the mountain and his conviction that Jesus is the Son of God. Jesus, for His part, now plans to head to Jerusalem, all the while speaking of the Son of Man suffering and being killed (Mark 8:31-38, 9:1).
Jesus: I am going to Jerusalem; suffering awaits [me] there. The Son of Man will be persecuted and handed over to the chief priests and the scribes (read: rabbis). They will condemn the Son of Man to death and hand him over to the gentiles; and they will mock the Son of Man and spit on him, flog him and kill him…
Joshua: “That was the beginning of his terrible prophecies. I was scared, but the other disciples seemed to be listening rather calmly. Maybe their heads were so filled with the thought of going to Jerusalem soon that they did not hear anything else further, but with Mary it was different: Mary was crying.”
Jesus: …But do not be sad: after three days, the Son of Man will rise again, be taken up into heaven, and sit at the right hand of God.
(Outside)
Jesus: (to crowd) If anyone wishes to come after me, he must deny himself, take up his cross, and follow me. Anyone who wishes to save his life will lose it, and anyone who loses his life for my sake and for the gospel’s will save it!
Whoever is ashamed of me and of my words in this sinful generation which has forsaken God - the Son of Man will also be ashamed of him!
I tell you this! There are some standing here who will not taste of death until they see the kingdom of God come in power! (Crowd cheers)
Peter: Let’s go to Jerusalem!! (Crowd cheers further as Jesus and the disciples make their way through; Joshua, Mary, Judas, and Barabbas look on from the crowd)
As Jesus and company stop by Jericho en route to Jerusalem, they receive word of the Galileans Pilate has had murdered (Luke 13:1-5) from a man named Azel (Atzel?), who isn’t very pleased with Jesus’ reaction - Peter had to convince him it was figurative, Jesus did not really mean it that way, etc. Nevertheless, Jesus invites him to follow Him.
Arriving at Bethany, Jesus finds out that Lazarus had died: apparently he became involved with the aforementioned incident in the Temple. He stood between the Romans and the Galileans, but had received an infected wound which killed him off. (John 11:1-44) Surprisingly, the raising of Lazarus is handled pretty straightforwardly, compared to the ambiguous/rationalized approach to the other miracles.
Judas decides to report this incident to Annas and Caiaphas. Annas thinks that “these strange types” appear all because of the Pharisaic belief in the resurrection of the dead, which he dismisses as something designed “to deceive their [the Pharisees’] ignorant underlings.” Judas expresses his opinion that if Jesus performs more signs, the people will rise up against Rome, and the Romans in turn will proceed to wreak havoc upon the Temple and the people. Caiaphas thinks that the only way is to get rid of Jesus (John 11:45-53); in answer to Annas’ concern that if Jesus was truly the Messiah then they would be committing a great sin by putting Him to death, Caiaphas answers that “if he is the Messiah, he would never die - God shall rescue him.”
Yasuhiko interprets John 11:51-52 (“He did not say this of his own accord, but being high priest that year he prophesied that Jesus would die for the nation, and not for the nation only, but also to gather into one the children of God who are scattered abroad.”) curiously here via a little wordplay. He has “children of God” (tekna tou Theou) here to mean “sons of God” (‘son of God’ = yiou tou Theou; there is no distinction in Japanese between both terms: 神の子ら/神の子たち kami no kora/kami no kotachi and 神の子 kami no ko) - in other words, other messianic claimants. While in the gospel the phrase is applied in the context of Jesus’ death having a salvific effect throughout all the nations, here the phrase is taken to mean that with Jesus’ (whom Caiaphas thinks is likely to be the ‘messiah’ par excellence) death, all the other ‘messiahs’ will be more easy to “gather” and taken care of.
En route, the disciples argue about who is the greatest, which prompts a rebuke from Jesus. (Mark 9:33-37; 10:35-45) Peter’s temper flares up again and gets into a quarrel with James and John for their request to Jesus. As they reach their destination, Joshua ponders:
By this time, even I understood the disciples’ foolishness, and how the great and different a person the Lord Jesus was compared to the others. Even if the miracles the disciples speak of - such as walking across the Sea of Galilee or calming the storm - weren’t true, and even if Lazarus hadn’t been raised from the dead, I strongly felt that that the Lord Jesus might indeed be the Messiah after all - and I strongly hoped that he would stand high above than the cold-hearted teachers of the Law or the puffed-up priests without any misfortune befalling him…
Still, now that I think of it, I realize what an ironic fate this is: that I and the petty murderer Azel were to be given places to the right and the left of the throne of glory…
And now you know that Joshua and Azel eventually turn out to be the two criminals who were crucified alongside Jesus. And all the stuff I’ve just described were Joshua’s reminiscences.
That’s pretty much it for volume 1.
Jesus: I am going to Jerusalem; suffering awaits [me] there. The Son of Man will be persecuted and handed over to the chief priests and the scribes (read: rabbis). They will condemn the Son of Man to death and hand him over to the gentiles; and they will mock the Son of Man and spit on him, flog him and kill him…
Joshua: “That was the beginning of his terrible prophecies. I was scared, but the other disciples seemed to be listening rather calmly. Maybe their heads were so filled with the thought of going to Jerusalem soon that they did not hear anything else further, but with Mary it was different: Mary was crying.”
Jesus: …But do not be sad: after three days, the Son of Man will rise again, be taken up into heaven, and sit at the right hand of God.
(Outside)
Jesus: (to crowd) If anyone wishes to come after me, he must deny himself, take up his cross, and follow me. Anyone who wishes to save his life will lose it, and anyone who loses his life for my sake and for the gospel’s will save it!
Whoever is ashamed of me and of my words in this sinful generation which has forsaken God - the Son of Man will also be ashamed of him!
I tell you this! There are some standing here who will not taste of death until they see the kingdom of God come in power! (Crowd cheers)
Peter: Let’s go to Jerusalem!! (Crowd cheers further as Jesus and the disciples make their way through; Joshua, Mary, Judas, and Barabbas look on from the crowd)
As Jesus and company stop by Jericho en route to Jerusalem, they receive word of the Galileans Pilate has had murdered (Luke 13:1-5) from a man named Azel (Atzel?), who isn’t very pleased with Jesus’ reaction - Peter had to convince him it was figurative, Jesus did not really mean it that way, etc. Nevertheless, Jesus invites him to follow Him.
Arriving at Bethany, Jesus finds out that Lazarus had died: apparently he became involved with the aforementioned incident in the Temple. He stood between the Romans and the Galileans, but had received an infected wound which killed him off. (John 11:1-44) Surprisingly, the raising of Lazarus is handled pretty straightforwardly, compared to the ambiguous/rationalized approach to the other miracles.
Judas decides to report this incident to Annas and Caiaphas. Annas thinks that “these strange types” appear all because of the Pharisaic belief in the resurrection of the dead, which he dismisses as something designed “to deceive their [the Pharisees’] ignorant underlings.” Judas expresses his opinion that if Jesus performs more signs, the people will rise up against Rome, and the Romans in turn will proceed to wreak havoc upon the Temple and the people. Caiaphas thinks that the only way is to get rid of Jesus (John 11:45-53); in answer to Annas’ concern that if Jesus was truly the Messiah then they would be committing a great sin by putting Him to death, Caiaphas answers that “if he is the Messiah, he would never die - God shall rescue him.”
Yasuhiko interprets John 11:51-52 (“He did not say this of his own accord, but being high priest that year he prophesied that Jesus would die for the nation, and not for the nation only, but also to gather into one the children of God who are scattered abroad.”) curiously here via a little wordplay. He has “children of God” (tekna tou Theou) here to mean “sons of God” (‘son of God’ = yiou tou Theou; there is no distinction in Japanese between both terms: 神の子ら/神の子たち kami no kora/kami no kotachi and 神の子 kami no ko) - in other words, other messianic claimants. While in the gospel the phrase is applied in the context of Jesus’ death having a salvific effect throughout all the nations, here the phrase is taken to mean that with Jesus’ (whom Caiaphas thinks is likely to be the ‘messiah’ par excellence) death, all the other ‘messiahs’ will be more easy to “gather” and taken care of.
En route, the disciples argue about who is the greatest, which prompts a rebuke from Jesus. (Mark 9:33-37; 10:35-45) Peter’s temper flares up again and gets into a quarrel with James and John for their request to Jesus. As they reach their destination, Joshua ponders:
By this time, even I understood the disciples’ foolishness, and how the great and different a person the Lord Jesus was compared to the others. Even if the miracles the disciples speak of - such as walking across the Sea of Galilee or calming the storm - weren’t true, and even if Lazarus hadn’t been raised from the dead, I strongly felt that that the Lord Jesus might indeed be the Messiah after all - and I strongly hoped that he would stand high above than the cold-hearted teachers of the Law or the puffed-up priests without any misfortune befalling him…
Still, now that I think of it, I realize what an ironic fate this is: that I and the petty murderer Azel were to be given places to the right and the left of the throne of glory…
And now you know that Joshua and Azel eventually turn out to be the two criminals who were crucified alongside Jesus. And all the stuff I’ve just described were Joshua’s reminiscences.
That’s pretty much it for volume 1.
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PATJC5
Guest
If I remember correctly the good theif’s name was st. dismas the patron saint of prisoners. and here’s more Only the Gospel of Luke describes one of the thieves as penitent, and even that gospel doesn’t name him. Luke’s unnamed penitent thief was later assigned the name Dismas in the Gospel of Nicodemus, portions of which may be dated to the 4th century. The name “Dismas” was adapted from a Greek word meaning “sunset” or “death.”
The other thief’s name is given as Gestas. In Jean Joseph Gaume’s Life of the Good Thief (Histoire Du Bon Larron French 1868, English 1882), Saint Augustine said; the thief said to Jesus, the child: " O most blessed of children, if ever a time should come when I shall crave Thy Mercy, remember me and forget not what has passed this day." Blessed Anne Catherine Emmerich saw the Holy Family “exhausted and helpless”; according to St. Augustine and St. Peter Damian, the Holy Family met Dismas, in these circumstances.
So thanks for refreshing my memory.
The other thief’s name is given as Gestas. In Jean Joseph Gaume’s Life of the Good Thief (Histoire Du Bon Larron French 1868, English 1882), Saint Augustine said; the thief said to Jesus, the child: " O most blessed of children, if ever a time should come when I shall crave Thy Mercy, remember me and forget not what has passed this day." Blessed Anne Catherine Emmerich saw the Holy Family “exhausted and helpless”; according to St. Augustine and St. Peter Damian, the Holy Family met Dismas, in these circumstances.
So thanks for refreshing my memory.
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patrick457
Guest
Actually the two robbers have had quite a lot of names, Dismas and Gestas being only a couple of them. I mean, the good thief is called Dismas, Demas, Dysmas, Dimas, Dymas, Damas, Titus, Zoatham, Zoathan, Ioathas, Ioaras, Matha, Jonathas, or Rakh!If I remember correctly the good theif’s name was st. dismas the patron saint of prisoners. and here’s more Only the Gospel of Luke describes one of the thieves as penitent, and even that gospel doesn’t name him. Luke’s unnamed penitent thief was later assigned the name Dismas in the Gospel of Nicodemus, portions of which may be dated to the 4th century. The name “Dismas” was adapted from a Greek word meaning “sunset” or “death.”
The other thief’s name is given as Gestas. In Jean Joseph Gaume’s Life of the Good Thief (Histoire Du Bon Larron French 1868, English 1882), Saint Augustine said; the thief said to Jesus, the child: " O most blessed of children, if ever a time should come when I shall crave Thy Mercy, remember me and forget not what has passed this day." Blessed Anne Catherine Emmerich saw the Holy Family “exhausted and helpless”; according to St. Augustine and St. Peter Damian, the Holy Family met Dismas, in these circumstances.
So thanks for refreshing my memory.
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mozzarella
Guest
I grew up watching Captain Harlock and the Queen of a Thousand Years. I watched it every single morning before school. Sadly, it’s very hard to find these episodes for sale. I was very lucky to be able to meet one of their animators by coincidence once. It was awesome!
Others I was really into were Akira and Aeon Flux. The last few series I tired to watch were just too slow, so I can’t recommend any newer ones.
Others I was really into were Akira and Aeon Flux. The last few series I tired to watch were just too slow, so I can’t recommend any newer ones.
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MrSylvester
Guest
Fien chapman, I won’t leave
. Sorry for the typos though. Next time I’ll use catholic answers’ spell checker.
Currently am watching Monster. Dad only watched halfof episode 3 and his very interested in it (I told him the story though up to that point) and he LOVES Higurashi. Also am watching Kanon right now.
. Sorry for the typos though. Next time I’ll use catholic answers’ spell checker.Currently am watching Monster. Dad only watched halfof episode 3 and his very interested in it (I told him the story though up to that point) and he LOVES Higurashi. Also am watching Kanon right now.
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Lost_Wanderer
Guest
Well, just a slight correction, I am not a manga author per se. I’m an author who draws inspiration from anime and manga. I suppose you call me… one of those light novel authors. Yeah. -w- (Pssst… patrick, you guys have a Japanese name for these kinds authors that I can use? >_>)
But other than that, I agree with you. I’ve already reached the stage where everything critics say is just highly rationalized (and highly paid opinion). You can argue the finer points but when you boil right down to it, it’s just human taste with a lot intellect wrapped around.
I’m currently in the process of actually making something to publish. It’s still in the really, really early planning stages (as in, I’m still outlining the plot >_>) but I’m dead set in actually getting this thing on shelves this time. I’ve finished school. I got a job. My situation is adequate enough for a writer.
As for what it is, I’m thinking of making it private for now. However, I’ve been drawing half of my inspiration about some of the recent debates I’ve been having.
I don’t know what anyone else here believes but I’m disturbed by how OT literalists and Creationists keep insisting that our world was once an Evangelical version of a myth-based fantasy universe. (e.g. Think the world of God of War or Valkyrie Profile except based on the Bible.) Upon further reflection though, delusions like that make a fine premise for a bit of deconstructionist fiction.
The other half of course is from watching some scenes from God of War, Wrath of the Titans, and… Touhou Project. (Here’s a big surprise: Touhou Project isn’t an anime.)
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Crescentinus
Guest
Really? o:
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ironchapman
Guest
You can’t persuade everyone, and most people willfully choose immorality and revel in it without care as to whether it is personally and spiritually damaging. Many of these fans might not be persuaded, but if you see a fellow Christian (or even a good-hearted non-Christian) who is being tempted but not ready to give in fully or even at all, speak with them and try to explain to them why it is wrong. You might sway them. However, as for the others, many will never learn, and neither do they wish to. Pray for their sake.
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patrick457
Guest
What he said. Very often, fighting fire with fire only leads to…more fire. Yeah, I messed that up, but you get the point.
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MrSylvester
Guest
I don’t get the creationist part but other than that, I meant you shouldn’t mind people who’d hate your novel just because it has something in it they don’t like (talking cats in a book? How preposterous. Cats don’t exist.) I’m not accusing you of not being rational or anything LW but you should see if that constructive criticism form some critics is valid. For example, they may point out a plot hole,maybe they’'d point out that the main character is bland and uninteresting, that the story makes absolutely no sense logically, etc…
There are three question a reader should never ask:
Why? Why should I read this book? Isn’t it better if I go off and watch TV or do the laundry? Why should I avoid the laundry or that great TV show in order to read this book?
Basically, a book MUST have at its core a reason to be. This does not mean in any way that a book should always have an aesopish moral as its main theme or philosophic discussions. Hell, 20th Century Boys doesn’t exactly deliver an Aesop about humanity uniting together nor does it have ANY philosophical discussions and to call that book a masterpiece is an understatement. As Max Keele said, a book should add up to something: ‘That it shock me, scare me, unnerve me, make me think, or cry, or vomit. Something.’
Oh Yeah? Really? You want me to believe that anyone would do THAT? You actually think that something so mind numbingly huge could happen with that dumb little explanation? Please!
There’s a fine line between willing suspension of disbelief and insulting your readers’ intelligence. We ‘believe’ that magic exists because then, we wouldn’t have stories like Mahou Sensei Negima or Harry Potter; we suspend our belief in the fact that a 50 meter tall giant robot in real life wouldn’t be able to move or support its own weight, else, we wouldn’t have Mazinger Zeta or the Evas. However, these things still need their own laws. We can accept magic existing but we can’t accept the idea that you could produce literally anything out of thin air, even food or your enemies else, the story would be over in 5 pages.We can buy the idea that Mazinger can shoot his fist at his enemies but how does he do that? Does the fist magically fly because they author told it to or does it fly by rockets? Could it work the same way a bullet works? Explain movie, explain!
This also counts for character actions. You wouldn’t see a 5 year old talking about Aristotle or a girl immediately assume that her husband is cheating on her just because she saw him (otherwise innocently) hug a woman.
Wife: I saw you hug that woman you cheater!
Husband: Woman? That was my long lost sister!
In fact, lets play this scenario again except the husband doesn’t tell his wife that the woman was his sister and in order to teach her a lesson in love, he pretend that he was cheating on a woman (our hero everybody!). Nobody in real life would do that so please, lets stop with these dumb misunderstandings plot points. Please, for the love of humanity, else, KILL EVERY ROMANTIC COMEDY DIRECTOR IN HOLLYWOOD!
Have characters interact naturally while following logical decisions. Introduce real problems and not melodramatic inconveniences or pointless conflicts which could be resolved in ten seconds but instead drag out for 55 years.
Huh? What just happened? What on earth is going on? This doesn’t make any sense. What are the characters talking about? Whats that macguffin? Who one Earth is that guy? Screw this, I’m outta here.
As I said, explain movie, and please explain things before they happen without expecting the audience to use their own imagination to fill in the gaps. If a work introduces a new character or power without explaining it before or after it appears or if something so illogical happens,you’ll lose your readers and force them to throw your book at the wall in disgust. This is one of Evangelions major faults in that it is one of those programs where to understand it you literally have to goggle information about it. Does the show ever tell you that humans are all Angels? Does it tell you that Kaworu is Adam? Does it tell you that humans came from Eve while the Angels came from Adam? No! A work should ALWAYS be self contained. Using secondary material to explain the story is just plain lazy writing.
Thats the worst type of withholding information because unlike Monster or 20th Century Boys, Evangelion isn’t a mystery anime. Mysteries deliberately withhold SOME information in order to make you think but they aren’t supposed to wit hold necessary information like the room this or that guy was killed in or who his friends and accomplices are. Also, please be consistent with the physics. We can buy having a hero swing through the jungle or the city without having his arms ripped off or having the hero dodge bullets with his sword but we can’t buy having a hero surviving a nuclear blast by hiding in a lead lined fridge. At all. First, we had jumping the shark, then, nuking the fridge. Whats next, frying the coke?
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patrick457
Guest
And now you’ve given me an idea. Fried carbonated drinks and sauteed water. With a side helping of baked wine. Perfect for fun outdoor activities such as shark-jumping.
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Lost_Wanderer
Guest
Well that’s kind of what I meant by arguing the finer points. However, once it starts moving into a issues of personal taste, that’s how the whole debate starts getting pointless. No matter how hard you try and make explanations, some people are just plain nitpicky.
Take this silly scenario for instance:
Critic: Why are there more girls than boys!? gasps Dat’s SEXIST!!! D8<
Me: -_-
Honestly, I’ve got bigger things to worry about than what gender most of my characters are. I mean, so what if I like making more girl characters than boys. Critics like that can fling their Freudian baloney at me all they want, I’ve stopped caring and bending my back to their navel-gazing opinions. -.-
M
MrSylvester
Guest
Yeah, that argument is pointless. Lots of shows that I like have improbable female cast like madoka Magica, Higurashi, Clannad, etc… what matters the msot in a work of fiction is that it have a point, that it add up to something and be entertaining.
S
sidetrack
Guest
All right my turn in this thread
.Before I go on I’ll say in advance.This posting of mine is sorta angry venting like.It’s made as a response to the ppl who say that DBZ is the best anime ever made even in the face of more complex stuff like Bleach,Naruto and Fullmetal alchemist.It’s also my onw lil’response to how if you talk about anime characters fighting ppl thnk that saying “yeah well Goku can beat them all” like an automatic victory or something
!.It’s like if you were comparing martial arts and said that “yeah well a nuke can beat them all”.
I honestly have a love-detest relationship with the DB series the same way some ppl do with George Lucas and Star Wars. It’s kind of strange how I see Akira Toriyama the same way some people do George Lucas.There happy he made Star Wars (esp.the original trilogy) but are angry at him for the prequel trilogy and consistent re-edits of the Star wars movies.With Akira Toriyama you’ve got a gag comedy writer with a knack for writing stuff from the naive perspective of a young child (ex.Cowa!,Dr.Slump and the original Dragon ball).The latter though famously developed into a martial arts action adventure with an arguably science fantasy setting expanding enuff to get it’s own little cosmology which grew to be beloved in Japan and the rest of world and still has an influence on Shonen manga to this day.
In my personal opinion though,Toriyama is feckless,toilet humour loving and immature and couldn’t take the pressures of doing an action series.His love of gross and pervy is why I think he would sooner do an artistically grating ecchi harem comedy then another DB series even though it very clearly has the capacity to expand and go SO MUCH further which is what SSOOOOO many desire.He has NO IDEA how much more scrutizing ppl are with an action series vs. a comedy one and hence all the ever so notoriusly frustrating plotholes of DBZ and GT.As far as the plot strength and character development/worth in DBZ it’s downright pathetic.It’s b/c all the DB series (but esp.Z) was,was a comedy writer trying his hand at an action series and by flippin fluke have the fortune to have grow it unprecedently popular!.
Toriyama doesn’t even take the DB series that seriously (as f----ing bizarre as that sounds given how DBZ became so serious in tone).Cases in point,self-parodies *Neko Majin *and Dragonball SD If anyone cares to counter that LOOK UP HIS BIBLIOGRAPHY NOT INCLUDING THE DB SERIES!!!.
Furthermore it’s his lack of seriousness is the reason why his role in making GT and *Dragonball Online *and his approval of them is pretty questionable and open to speculation. It’s his lack of an absolute answer to his role in making and his approval of GT and Online which causes so many people to bitterly divide themselves into camps about what is canon.
With DBOnline it’s borderline pathetic to think that he supposedly worked on it’s development for** 4 YRS** and most of the villians are rehashes from the original like the *Emperor Paella *and the Red pants army and how most a lot of the game is about time-travelling back to the DB and Z eras when he had the perfect oppurtunity to make a series that grow a spine (!) and distant itself from the old stuff -_-.I mean REALLY?!?!.He’s been Working for Square Enix for over a quarter century doing art for the Tobal,Chrono Trigger and the Dragon Quest games but that whole flippin time he hasn’t at least learned and picked up some pointers from plots in Square Enix games?!?.But IMO what little he does care for is why he made DBOnline a very open ended MMORPG which has ***FRIVOUSLY ***been declared to be the *canon *continuation to the Dragon ball series:banghead:.
He DOES NOT deserve the title of “father of shonen”!.
kpeople: YEAH THAT’S RIGHT!,I SAID IT!. True,other series have kept Dragon ball as the guiding format for shonen (who’s weaker points include slow character development coupled with exploitatively long anime that drags on and cheap power ups in a world with a flimsy parameters for that kind of stuff) but it certainly developed *** SIGNIFICANTLY*** since the mid 90’s.
Also the whole Dragonball series hasn’t aged very well in general when it comes to his art it’s grating,his the character designs aren’t too good,has a slightly dated style and the way Toriyama uses SUCH similar designs for other stuff like Chrono trigger and the Dragon Quest games really makes me doubt how versatile his skills as an artist actually are.I’ve actually read stuff about how he admits he’s not good at drawing girls and doesn’t know much about drawing human anatomy.Hence the reason why in DB so many characters look like manga versions of Rob Liefeld stuff. The fact that regardless of what he’s doing (like DragonQuest) a lot of his characters just seem like rehashes of what he’s already done (it makes me wonder just how much he can actually draw) like with (IMO) reoccuring features of conical horns or spikes,bald pointy eared beings and foreheads big enuff to have ad stickers on them.
Hey I’m not even going to go on abou the cultural insensitivity of Hercule’s Japanese version name and Mr.Popo’s “blackface” caricature based character design*
.
I actually like old *Digimon more.Yes,Digimon.One of the old anime monster shows that were like a gateway to so many during the first full Jpop wave in the mid-90’s but today is disparaged by so many as being overly moralistic and kiddyish.I like it more b/c aside from it’s sentimental childhood value to me it’s has a much richer,less plot-hole prone and coherent plot,more meaningful (yet not stupidly bombastic) fights then DBZ with a better variety of attacks to boot instead of generic yellowish shapeless blasts of energy and light.It did this while staying more kid friendly and left a deeper mark on me as well while doing that.Yes,I’m pretty aware that Digimon started as a merchandise franchise as boy directed advertisement for Tamagachi *but it developed into something quite nice and I can counter that Dragon ball has become a merchandise franchise with all the games for it keeping well alive and aware in the public mind llooooonnnggg after it finished.Even in Naruto I’ve noticed that fights are done more strategically (though I think that partly b/c of the ninja stealth thing going on…[next one plz]
*This can be remedied if you consider how he’s a genie.For instance if they made another DB series they could have him look dignified,really cool and racially ambigous (I’m thinking Street fighter’s Dhalsim+Afro Samurai) by having him say he decided use his magic to make himself look younger and better b/c he does’nt want to lose Dende like he did Kami and his old look was b/c of years of neglecting himself while taking care o’the guardians.I was inspired by the look change that Gennai had in Digimon season 1 from an old guy to season 2 when he looks younger & kind of like a Phantom Menace era Obi Wan Kenobi.If his role as attendent still seems demeaning then give him a more proactive Odion Ishtar-esque personality that views the guardians as like family.
.Before I go on I’ll say in advance.This posting of mine is sorta angry venting like.It’s made as a response to the ppl who say that DBZ is the best anime ever made even in the face of more complex stuff like Bleach,Naruto and Fullmetal alchemist.It’s also my onw lil’response to how if you talk about anime characters fighting ppl thnk that saying “yeah well Goku can beat them all” like an automatic victory or something!.It’s like if you were comparing martial arts and said that “yeah well a nuke can beat them all”.I honestly have a love-detest relationship with the DB series the same way some ppl do with George Lucas and Star Wars. It’s kind of strange how I see Akira Toriyama the same way some people do George Lucas.There happy he made Star Wars (esp.the original trilogy) but are angry at him for the prequel trilogy and consistent re-edits of the Star wars movies.With Akira Toriyama you’ve got a gag comedy writer with a knack for writing stuff from the naive perspective of a young child (ex.Cowa!,Dr.Slump and the original Dragon ball).The latter though famously developed into a martial arts action adventure with an arguably science fantasy setting expanding enuff to get it’s own little cosmology which grew to be beloved in Japan and the rest of world and still has an influence on Shonen manga to this day.
In my personal opinion though,Toriyama is feckless,toilet humour loving and immature and couldn’t take the pressures of doing an action series.His love of gross and pervy is why I think he would sooner do an artistically grating ecchi harem comedy then another DB series even though it very clearly has the capacity to expand and go SO MUCH further which is what SSOOOOO many desire.He has NO IDEA how much more scrutizing ppl are with an action series vs. a comedy one and hence all the ever so notoriusly frustrating plotholes of DBZ and GT.As far as the plot strength and character development/worth in DBZ it’s downright pathetic.It’s b/c all the DB series (but esp.Z) was,was a comedy writer trying his hand at an action series and by flippin fluke have the fortune to have grow it unprecedently popular!.
Toriyama doesn’t even take the DB series that seriously (as f----ing bizarre as that sounds given how DBZ became so serious in tone).Cases in point,self-parodies *Neko Majin *and Dragonball SD If anyone cares to counter that LOOK UP HIS BIBLIOGRAPHY NOT INCLUDING THE DB SERIES!!!.
Furthermore it’s his lack of seriousness is the reason why his role in making GT and *Dragonball Online *and his approval of them is pretty questionable and open to speculation. It’s his lack of an absolute answer to his role in making and his approval of GT and Online which causes so many people to bitterly divide themselves into camps about what is canon.
With DBOnline it’s borderline pathetic to think that he supposedly worked on it’s development for** 4 YRS**
and most of the villians are rehashes from the original like the *Emperor Paella *and the Red pants army and how most a lot of the game is about time-travelling back to the DB and Z eras when he had the perfect oppurtunity to make a series that grow a spine (!) and distant itself from the old stuff -_-.I mean REALLY?!?!.He’s been Working for Square Enix for over a quarter century doing art for the Tobal,Chrono Trigger and the Dragon Quest games but that whole flippin time he hasn’t at least learned and picked up some pointers from plots in Square Enix games?!?.But IMO what little he does care for is why he made DBOnline a very open ended MMORPG which has ***FRIVOUSLY ***been declared to be the *canon *continuation to the Dragon ball series:banghead:.He DOES NOT deserve the title of “father of shonen”!.
kpeople: YEAH THAT’S RIGHT!,I SAID IT!. True,other series have kept Dragon ball as the guiding format for shonen (who’s weaker points include slow character development coupled with exploitatively long anime that drags on and cheap power ups in a world with a flimsy parameters for that kind of stuff) but it certainly developed *** SIGNIFICANTLY*** since the mid 90’s.Also the whole Dragonball series hasn’t aged very well in general when it comes to his art it’s grating,his the character designs aren’t too good,has a slightly dated style and the way Toriyama uses SUCH similar designs for other stuff like Chrono trigger and the Dragon Quest games really makes me doubt how versatile his skills as an artist actually are.I’ve actually read stuff about how he admits he’s not good at drawing girls and doesn’t know much about drawing human anatomy.Hence the reason why in DB so many characters look like manga versions of Rob Liefeld stuff. The fact that regardless of what he’s doing (like DragonQuest) a lot of his characters just seem like rehashes of what he’s already done (it makes me wonder just how much he can actually draw) like with (IMO) reoccuring features of conical horns or spikes,bald pointy eared beings and foreheads big enuff to have ad stickers on them.
Hey I’m not even going to go on abou the cultural insensitivity of Hercule’s Japanese version name and Mr.Popo’s “blackface” caricature based character design*
.I actually like old *Digimon more.Yes,Digimon.One of the old anime monster shows that were like a gateway to so many during the first full Jpop wave in the mid-90’s but today is disparaged by so many as being overly moralistic and kiddyish.I like it more b/c aside from it’s sentimental childhood value to me it’s has a much richer,less plot-hole prone and coherent plot,more meaningful (yet not stupidly bombastic) fights then DBZ with a better variety of attacks to boot instead of generic yellowish shapeless blasts of energy and light.It did this while staying more kid friendly and left a deeper mark on me as well while doing that.Yes,I’m pretty aware that Digimon started as a merchandise franchise as boy directed advertisement for Tamagachi *but it developed into something quite nice and I can counter that Dragon ball has become a merchandise franchise with all the games for it keeping well alive and aware in the public mind llooooonnnggg after it finished.Even in Naruto I’ve noticed that fights are done more strategically (though I think that partly b/c of the ninja stealth thing going on…[next one plz]
*This can be remedied if you consider how he’s a genie.For instance if they made another DB series they could have him look dignified,really cool and racially ambigous (I’m thinking Street fighter’s Dhalsim+Afro Samurai) by having him say he decided use his magic to make himself look younger and better b/c he does’nt want to lose Dende like he did Kami and his old look was b/c of years of neglecting himself while taking care o’the guardians.I was inspired by the look change that Gennai had in Digimon season 1 from an old guy to season 2 when he looks younger & kind of like a Phantom Menace era Obi Wan Kenobi.If his role as attendent still seems demeaning then give him a more proactive Odion Ishtar-esque personality that views the guardians as like family.
S
sidetrack
Guest
For better or worse Toriyama gives the final say over what canon and what’s not in his franchises.In the case of the latter though it’s very peculiar how he does’nt seem to care that much Dragon ball even though it’s undisputably his most lucrative creation he just easily put it behind in his past and moved on to his next story (but with DB staying on him like a curse just like Lucas and Star Wars) even though it very clearly has the capacity to expand and go further which is what SSOOOOO many desire.
There’s still hope though.Maybe when they both die the copyrights to those franchises will be up for grabs,ready to be molded with careful detail and expansion and will hopefully go to responsible people respecting the source material.IMO another DB series that’s high quality,has a solid meaningful plot with actual subtext could be formulated along with more strategically and plot related meaningful fights.Hope you dont mind but here’s a bit of an excerpt from my fan-fic plot outline from a 200 yrs post Z and GT era that is DBO inspired that I’ve come up with that can remedy the plot-holes (among other things…).
{When all reality came into creation there were 2 primal cosmic dragons (think something along the lines of Galactus from Marvel if your familar with him or better yet the Monitor and Anti-montior back in the “Crisis on Infinite earths” storyline era which I’ve based them on).They had opposing views over how to make life but the evil one (the dragon of disorder) created beings as a parody and mockery of how the good dragon (the dragon of harmony) created life.These beings were Ozura (just my own little transliteration of “Asura” from Hindu and Buddhist mythology).They couldn’t pronounce their species name like how the evil dragon said it so they called themselves Oozaru.That there is my explanation for the RIDICULOUS power levels of Saiyans.(Now to remedy the plot-holes) once we get past some other stuff like when the Oozaru slaves escaped into the regular DB universe the evil dragon got his life force/chaotic energy body disassociated and scattered throughout the universe.For the past 500 years though (this starts when the original Dragon ball starts) while trying to re-manifest himself he sometimes checked the extent of his powers by warping space and time.That messing around and causing inconsistencies with reality is what caused the plot holes (TADA!).
Also for those who think that beating this evil dragon can be done by those poorly thought out power level increases there’s wrong and it’s not that simple to address.This evil primal dragon’s chaotic energy is “primal ki” which is only found in this dragon and his good counterpart and is different from regular ki by nature in some ways.Also even if you do manage to approach near his power level you can simply think some powerful energy move would be enough b/c being one of the beings original beings of creation he can keeping altering and increasing his bodily defense,strength and power no matter how infinitesimally small the difference between him and the one trying to destroy him which would even leave ludicrously potent Saiyans like Broly ( a movie only character -_-)or SS4 Gogeta in a “Achilles and the tortoise” style Zeno’s paradox of a dilemma.}
In addition there’s been loads of ppl who’ve DEFINITELY refined Toriyama’s style.Look at deviantart’s Genaminna for instance who has refined the regular DB art style (ex.genaminna.deviantart.com/art/Trunks-Date-ch-6-page-183-29177490) and she can awesomely take it to IMO an borderline seinen style (ex.genaminna.deviantart.com/art/Trunks-Date-ch-8-page-249-97266338).[DANG I would LLLLOOOOOVVVEEEE it if they did another DB series in the style of the first picture I linked]
Regardless even if there was another DB series their will be people b----ing about the quality of the material and it’s canoncity due to the (note:if Toriyama’s dead=permenant) absence of the original creator’s for approval maybe b/c to them they cant think of the Dragon ball series as being nothing but a sci-fi equivalent version of Rambo
In the case of Dragon ball there’s Ooishi Naho who made the “Episode of Bardock” manga which had an anime that came out** while** Toriyama’s still alive.
I cant force anyone to reply to me but I can only hope that LostWanderer reads both these posts .
Now speakingly jokingly of course if anyone is looking to blame someone for possibly heavily sidetracking any previous conversations on this thread with my possibly TLDR postings which I still hope some ppl had the *bravery *to read through I’ll tell you right now that the seeds of this posting were sown by Eagelswings on my “Will DBZ kinect be a good way to understand/“feel” fight animation choreography?” thread (forums.catholic-questions.org/showthread.php?t=690073)
).
There’s still hope though.Maybe when they both die the copyrights to those franchises will be up for grabs
,ready to be molded with careful detail and expansion and will hopefully go to responsible people respecting the source material.IMO another DB series that’s high quality,has a solid meaningful plot with actual subtext could be formulated along with more strategically and plot related meaningful fights.Hope you dont mind but here’s a bit of an excerpt from my fan-fic plot outline from a 200 yrs post Z and GT era that is DBO inspired that I’ve come up with that can remedy the plot-holes (among other things…).{When all reality came into creation there were 2 primal cosmic dragons (think something along the lines of Galactus from Marvel if your familar with him or better yet the Monitor and Anti-montior back in the “Crisis on Infinite earths” storyline era which I’ve based them on).They had opposing views over how to make life but the evil one (the dragon of disorder) created beings as a parody and mockery of how the good dragon (the dragon of harmony) created life.These beings were Ozura (just my own little transliteration of “Asura” from Hindu and Buddhist mythology).They couldn’t pronounce their species name like how the evil dragon said it so they called themselves Oozaru
.That there is my explanation for the RIDICULOUS power levels of Saiyans.(Now to remedy the plot-holes) once we get past some other stuff like when the Oozaru slaves escaped into the regular DB universe the evil dragon got his life force/chaotic energy body disassociated and scattered throughout the universe.For the past 500 years though (this starts when the original Dragon ball starts) while trying to re-manifest himself he sometimes checked the extent of his powers by warping space and time.That messing around and causing inconsistencies with reality is what caused the plot holes (TADA!).Also for those who think that beating this evil dragon can be done by those poorly thought out power level increases there’s wrong and it’s not that simple to address.This evil primal dragon’s chaotic energy is “primal ki” which is only found in this dragon and his good counterpart and is different from regular ki by nature in some ways.Also even if you do manage to approach near his power level you can simply think some powerful energy move would be enough b/c being one of the beings original beings of creation he can keeping altering and increasing his bodily defense,strength and power no matter how infinitesimally small the difference between him and the one trying to destroy him which would even leave ludicrously potent Saiyans like Broly ( a movie only character -_-)or SS4 Gogeta in a “Achilles and the tortoise” style Zeno’s paradox of a dilemma.}
In addition there’s been loads of ppl who’ve DEFINITELY refined Toriyama’s style.Look at deviantart’s Genaminna for instance who has refined the regular DB art style (ex.genaminna.deviantart.com/art/Trunks-Date-ch-6-page-183-29177490) and she can awesomely take it to IMO an borderline seinen style (ex.genaminna.deviantart.com/art/Trunks-Date-ch-8-page-249-97266338).[DANG I would LLLLOOOOOVVVEEEE it if they did another DB series in the style of the first picture I linked]
Regardless even if there was another DB series their will be people b----ing about the quality of the material and it’s canoncity due to the (note:if Toriyama’s dead=permenant) absence of the original creator’s for approval maybe b/c to them they cant think of the Dragon ball series as being nothing but a sci-fi equivalent version of Rambo
In the case of Dragon ball there’s Ooishi Naho who made the “Episode of Bardock” manga which had an anime that came out** while** Toriyama’s still alive.
I cant force anyone to reply to me but I can only hope that LostWanderer reads both these posts .Now speakingly jokingly of course if anyone is looking to blame someone for possibly heavily sidetracking any previous conversations on this thread with my possibly TLDR postings which I still hope some ppl had the *bravery *to read through
I’ll tell you right now that the seeds of this posting were sown by Eagelswings on my “Will DBZ kinect be a good way to understand/“feel” fight animation choreography?” thread (forums.catholic-questions.org/showthread.php?t=690073)).
L
Lost_Wanderer
Guest
Sidetrack, I haven’t read your entire post but I’ll keep reading as soon as I have more time. I am actually impressed by how you criticize Toriyama’s title as Father of Shonen.
I admit, I have a similar view of the author myself. I absolutely disliked the animated Dragonball.
But oddly enough, I’m probably one of the only few anime fans I know in my immediate area who still eats and drinks shonen. Naruto, Air Gear, Fairy Tail, Shaman King, Flame of Recca, Yu-Gi-Oh! and Mahou Sensei Negima are just several representatives of the kind of anime I go for. On the other hand, most fans I meet nowadays are more heavily into mecha or sci-fi.
What’s even stranger though is that while I also have intense dislike for Toriyama’s art style (Dragonball or not), I’m greatly enamored by Hiro Mashima’s.
In case some of you don’t know, Hiro Mashima has often been compared with Eiichiro Oda (creator of One Piece) in terms of art style. What really got me was that the reason for that was because Toriyama influenced both of them.
And yet, here I am admiring Lisanna Strauss but find neither Bulma nor Chichi attractive.
I admit, I have a similar view of the author myself. I absolutely disliked the animated Dragonball.
But oddly enough, I’m probably one of the only few anime fans I know in my immediate area who still eats and drinks shonen. Naruto, Air Gear, Fairy Tail, Shaman King, Flame of Recca, Yu-Gi-Oh! and Mahou Sensei Negima are just several representatives of the kind of anime I go for. On the other hand, most fans I meet nowadays are more heavily into mecha or sci-fi.
What’s even stranger though is that while I also have intense dislike for Toriyama’s art style (Dragonball or not), I’m greatly enamored by Hiro Mashima’s.
In case some of you don’t know, Hiro Mashima has often been compared with Eiichiro Oda (creator of One Piece) in terms of art style. What really got me was that the reason for that was because Toriyama influenced both of them.
And yet, here I am admiring Lisanna Strauss but find neither Bulma nor Chichi attractive.
M
MrSylvester
Guest
Say LW, what do you think of Rurouni Kenshin? Its one of the msot famous shonen manga and anime EVER and its multiple demographic appeal was LEGENDARY.
Also, do you people recommend Macross Frontier?
P
Paul1Up
Guest
For my part, I very much recommend Macross Frontier. Music is a big part of the show, and the soundtrack is fantastic, I own almost every album. It’s also got a really nice visual style and a very sympathetic cast (regarding this I don’t want to elaborate without spoiling anything). It’s kind of a sci-fi soap opera, so it’s not really going to be everyone’s cup of tea. Also, there were licensing issues regarding the Macross franchise in the states that, to my knowledge, haven’t been resolved so it’s not exactly easy to find the show. If you’ve seen the original Macross or are at least somewhat familiar with the franchise then you’ll also appreciate a few nods to the previous installments.
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