Who should make the first move?

[chevalier]

As the Grand Master of the Most Brooding and Grumpy Order of Old Bachelors, I feel the duty incumbent on me to offer a sound volume of succinct clarification.

So here it goes.

Standing by your feelings, including the unrequited ones, is an important part of your human experience and it seems to me everyone has the right to have his feelings respected. From this follows that a woman should have this right of hers respected as well and shouldn’t be deny it. I think if she wants to take the chance and pronounce her feelings, aware of the consequences, everyone should respect it.

In a normal situation, however, I’m not a fan of the idea of women chasing men and it doesn’t sit well with me. I don’t like the idea of a woman asking a man out and trying to wear the breeches.

However, similarly as in #1, I don’t believe that a woman should not be allowed to pay for herself if she insists. Paying for a date is kindness, it is not a matter of justice and women cannot expect it as their due. This is the beautiful part of courtesy and chivalry: doing things which are honourable and which justice inspires and suggests, but no law mandates. This generally means that it should always be taken as a kindness and never as the payment of a rightful debt, which among other results means a “thank you” is generally due unless extreme courtesy is taken as a matter-of-course (in a given situation not saying “thank you” is equal to implying “I would expect no less of you” and speaks volumes in its silence). Here it follows that should a way show some exceptional kindness or favour, it should be respected.

It is generally plainly rude to make a scene about who pays, anyway. Being a gentleman does not allow making scenes.

One of the beautiful points of etiquette is all the things you do with it once you know how and once you, well, do. Examples include, “so are you going to ask me to dance or not?” said in a gentle and slightly amused (in a good way) tone. This is not mandatory, of course, because courage is required more of men than of women, and in the case of a woman, this takes a slightly heroic overtone. Eowyn would be proud.

I’ve seen tons of examples in literature and even in real life, how favour can be shown in a dignified way. For example if a lady took your glass and poured your drink, it spoke volumes about affection or some form of respect and yet it wasn’t demeaning to her and didn’t imply romance, strictly speaking, either. An example I remember from real life, was a young girl taking a sip from her friend’s cup. Just don’t take it any perverted way.

Initiating a conversation could be both well taken and well understood. And no, it is not demeaning to a self-respecting woman. It is only demeaning if it has other reasons to be unflattering. Showing genuine interest in meeting up is not demeaning either. In fact, it’s quite refreshing and is probably taken much better than haughty indifference by the reasonable men.

Also, very much of the appreciation is shown by appreciation of certain specific acts of kindness a man does, especially those which are not popular, no longer done, which put particularly a young and a shy man at risk of being regarded as not quite normal by his peers. I’ve seen some examples and it needs to be said that appreciating an act of kindness has never demeaned anybody. A gentleman may even be motivated by lack of appreciation because it creates a certain “against everything” reflex, but no one likes being treated badly. At this point I heartily recommend to aspiring ladies and gentlemen reading Schiller’s *The Glove *(poetry-archive.com/s/the_glove.html). Obviously, revenge is always bad, even if it limits itself to sulking, but there are limits to what one can take.

This said, I reiterate the initial statement that the man should do the pursuing. It is somewhat unbecoming of a woman to do it the way some men do (which seems fine for them), but this doesn’t mean that it’s unbecoming in each and every case. It depends how it’s done. However, encouragement would be a better instrument, I suppose, although I also stand by the other initial statement that being true to oneself is a right and should be respected. If a woman wants to take some flak for staying true to her feelings, possibly shaming a guy or two in the process, at some point you’ve got to allow her.

 

[First_of_9]

39 years ago I chased my wife until she caught me.

 

[whatevergirl]

As the Grand Master of the Most Brooding and Grumpy Order of Old Bachelors, I feel the duty incumbent on me to offer a sound volume of succinct clarification.

So here it goes.

Standing by your feelings, including the unrequited ones, is an important part of your human experience and it seems to me everyone has the right to have his feelings respected. From this follows that a woman should have this right of hers respected as well and shouldn’t be deny it. I think if she wants to take the chance and pronounce her feelings, aware of the consequences, everyone should respect it.

In a normal situation, however, I’m not a fan of the idea of women chasing men and it doesn’t sit well with me. I don’t like the idea of a woman asking a man out and trying to wear the breeches.

However, similarly as in #1, I don’t believe that a woman should not be allowed to pay for herself if she insists. Paying for a date is kindness, it is not a matter of justice and women cannot expect it as their due. This is the beautiful part of courtesy and chivalry: doing things which are honourable and which justice inspires and suggests, but no law mandates. This generally means that it should always be taken as a kindness and never as the payment of a rightful debt, which among other results means a “thank you” is generally due unless extreme courtesy is taken as a matter-of-course (in a given situation not saying “thank you” is equal to implying “I would expect no less of you” and speaks volumes in its silence). Here it follows that should a way show some exceptional kindness or favour, it should be respected.

It is generally plainly rude to make a scene about who pays, anyway. Being a gentleman does not allow making scenes.

One of the beautiful points of etiquette is all the things you do with it once you know how and once you, well, do. Examples include, “so are you going to ask me to dance or not?” said in a gentle and slightly amused (in a good way) tone. This is not mandatory, of course, because courage is required more of men than of women, and in the case of a woman, this takes a slightly heroic overtone. Eowyn would be proud.

I’ve seen tons of examples in literature and even in real life, how favour can be shown in a dignified way. For example if a lady took your glass and poured your drink, it spoke volumes about affection or some form of respect and yet it wasn’t demeaning to her and didn’t imply romance, strictly speaking, either. An example I remember from real life, was a young girl taking a sip from her friend’s cup. Just don’t take it any perverted way.

Initiating a conversation could be both well taken and well understood. And no, it is not demeaning to a self-respecting woman. It is only demeaning if it has other reasons to be unflattering. Showing genuine interest in meeting up is not demeaning either. In fact, it’s quite refreshing and is probably taken much better than haughty indifference by the reasonable men.

Also, very much of the appreciation is shown by appreciation of certain specific acts of kindness a man does, especially those which are not popular, no longer done, which put particularly a young and a shy man at risk of being regarded as not quite normal by his peers. I’ve seen some examples and it needs to be said that appreciating an act of kindness has never demeaned anybody. A gentleman may even be motivated by lack of appreciation because it creates a certain “against everything” reflex, but no one likes being treated badly. At this point I heartily recommend to aspiring ladies and gentlemen reading Schiller’s *The Glove *(poetry-archive.com/s/the_glove.html). Obviously, revenge is always bad, even if it limits itself to sulking, but there are limits to what one can take.

This said, I reiterate the initial statement that the man should do the pursuing. It is somewhat unbecoming of a woman to do it the way some men do (which seems fine for them), but this doesn’t mean that it’s unbecoming in each and every case. It depends how it’s done. However, encouragement would be a better instrument, I suppose, although I also stand by the other initial statement that being true to oneself is a right and should be respected. If a woman wants to take some flak for staying true to her feelings, possibly shaming a guy or two in the process, at some point you’ve got to allow her.

You are not old.

 

[OLHope]

OK why don’t we raise a white flag to a 50/50 for and against?

Here is my last point, to where I just did not have that Ave Maria Singles connection with this man, not a gentleman, but a cradle Catholic, I thought I was in good hands…, however, blah, Im better off alone!

Another First Date Story:
He asked, I accepted. Worst date ever! Most people know the no kissing on a first date! A woman should never pay for a date? Well heck yes you should, (well dutch is best for me)!! He paid for dinner then we went to the movie where I stated, I would pay for us on the phone beforehand. I take my clunky purse and can’t dish out the cash fast enough to pay the cashier, when he slips a 20 to cover it, and I push the money in his face, but he was seeming gracious and held up his hand and I didn’t force a scene, even though, deep down, I truly wanted to. Why? Why is exactly what happened next, after the movie, I was very distant, not interested at all, told him Id be on my way, but he followed me to my car, “to make sure I was ok.” As I was getting into my car, he lean in, I pushed away, and he kept leaning in, and I told him to knock it off(in a very unladylike way), in the middle of a public parking lot. Oh no no NO! You do not know the attraction level well enough to pull that off on a first date, be lucky if there is a second, it means the interest is still there on both parts.

Secondly, I was never cool with public displays of affection, not me, not you, what two people have should be wonderful and between them, not for the world to see with few exceptions like weddings, and ok, anniversaries, bla, bla, bla, lol…but seriously I grew with “The Rules,” in my neck of the woods, there is not one person who hasnt heard of that one. He may have paid for that date, but I paid by feeling obligated afterward.

Lastly, this moron, this silly…billy…goatish man…had the nerve to imply that we go to his place afterward so " I could keep my leftovers refrigerated," and in a smirk I let him know that my “leftovers would be fine at room temperature for a while.”

Practing Catholic!!! Can you believe it? Argh!

Kissing, really? After that, your lucky if I look you in the eye or shake your hand. Sorry to sound so cold, and sorry for the name calling, its just all coming back to me now, glad to get it of my chest…which, by the way, is at room temperature, also! I’m not all that cold a person, I do got heart.

I’m really, really glad that some of you married people feel there is a definitive on who should initiate, and who should just wait in the wings, because your not chaperoning my personal dating or looking out for my best interest, I had disease to please before, it hurts when you feel like your a doormat. I have to wonder about most of these married folks in here, no marriage is perfect and there is so much the condescending tone when saying oh it’s just so easy, and just do things like this or like this, when I get into the home of married people much like yourselves, and see you’re torn apart by one thing or another(illness, finances, defiant kids, etc…,), and you wish me to have that? I hear of the horrible stories on this site with spouses. I do not want a husband who is indifferent, apathetic, angry, pushy, abusive, etc…, and I am not saying that you are, but I must take the measures that I deem fit enough to weed out the process. In another person’s marriage, I see right away who’s in charge and these fairytales, these facades of control, are just more oppressive measures when you are to have a 50/50 relationship.

On an Ave Maria type website, I lasted a couple months before I had it on there, I had one person of interest, he did not feel the same, I moved on, but there were slim pickings, because the men coming after me were the same problematic men of my past. The worst profile I found was a man(very attractive), who has been on there for years, he had two sisters married, a brother who is a monk, and himself left to carry on his family name, but one very oppressive line in his profile had me out of that site for good. He clearly stated, “I need a woman who will be obedient.” When I told my very conservative pastor this, he said, “uh, don’t even bother with him.” How does one put that in their dating for marriage profile? I mean talk about a red flag, but wow, maybe this is his way of doing his weeding out processes? All Catholic site, too! Tons of Hypocrites! Now what? I know I may sound unforgiving, but I thrive on meeting new people as long as their demeanor is uniform for the area I meet them in.

So I will not meet new people anymore. Too much risk. I can use US Search, the internet, or interrogate their acquaintances, references, and church pastors to try to get a better idea of what I am dealing with…, but isn’t it absurd to get this careful? Should one get this technical? I have to question someone who just pops up in my life and says he has no family and friends, don’t I?

This question was opened up to all people, but it is very odd when married people who may not have been dating for years or decades can put a spin on to what we have to deal with now. It’s bad!

Sorry such a downer.
-Hope

 

[Just_wondering]

I generally feel that the man should make the first move, upon receiving signs that the woman wouldn’t be disinterested. So, woman smiles and is generally friendly around the guy, so he works up the guts to ask her for coffee or dinner or something. Of course, it doesn’t always work that way.

My problem was generally that I was friendly and open to everyone, and so guys that I liked weren’t sure whether I’d appreciate being asked out or whether I was just being friendly. I have no desire to stop being friendly to people, but I’m not comfortable being more than friendly to let it be known that I’m interested.

With my boyfriend, I smiled at him, he asked for my number after we’d spent a few hours in a group together, he called and asked me to come hang out with his friends, I accepted, and for months nothing more than that happened. I went out regularly with his group of friends, accepted his invitations whenever I had time, and still he didn’t make a further move. I figured he wasn’t interested in being more than friends, although sometimes his body language said otherwise.

Finally, one day at his friend’s birthday party, he told me that he’d decided to go home to the Philippines permanently, and that he’d be leaving in two weeks. I was so surprised I dropped my brand-new camera and started crying. He thought I was crying because of the camera, and started trying to comfort me by saying it could be fixed. I told him I was crying because he was leaving.

:newidea: Finally he got it! Then he made a move. Did I make the first move? Maybe… but maybe not. We are dating across cultures - maybe he thought he’d already made his feelings clear, but I didn’t get the message. Maybe I was giving off some cultural signs that I wasn’t so interested, without realizing it.

Overall, I still say it’s better for the guy to make the first move, but it’s okay for the girl to give a little nudge or hint if he seems interested but isn’t going anywhere with it.

 

[Lujack]

Men who are not confident enough to ask a woman out tend to not be confident enough in other areas either.

All of the replies here are based on people’s experience, and in my experience it does not turn out well when a woman pursues a man. And, a man who is not confident is not a man I would want to date.

My mother made the first move on my father, who at the age of thirty had never had the courage to ask anybody out before. Granted, they had been friends before that, but still…I think I turned out okay.

Beyond that, my father had been a pretty successful guy up to that point. He’d been a head football coach, successful teacher, and had a ton of friends. He just didn’t have the courage to ask anybody out. He had plenty of courage in other venues, though.

 

[OLHope]

My mother made the first move on my father, who at the age of thirty had never had the courage to ask anybody out before. Granted, they had been friends before that, but still…I think I turned out okay.

Beyond that, my father had been a pretty successful guy up to that point. He’d been a head football coach, successful teacher, and had a ton of friends. He just didn’t have the courage to ask anybody out. He had plenty of courage in other venues, though.

Awww, see! I don’t think that these stellar men should be left out of Happily-ever-after, it’s not easy to find the other half of you. It’s ok if it looks for you…, So Sweet! Thanks for sharing!

 

[whatevergirl]

I’m in sales, and over the years, I learned how to accept rejection. I imagine that what many men might fear, when it comes to asking a woman out, is that fear of rejection. Men have feelings too, it’s not unreasonable to think that it can be scary to fear someone rejecting you. With a job, or something, men and woman can justify why they were rejected for something, but with dating, it’s very personal. Could be why men who are successful, fear asking women out. I never really thought much of it, actually…men just did the asking. I was brought up that girls just don’t ask boys out, or even call them on the phone. To me, that is extreme. I teach my kids that before dating, hang out in a group, get to know the people you are interested in…if dating is meant to be, God will clear the path. I do hope my son asks out his gf’s and that my daughter doesn’t do the asking…guess old habits die hard. I just have that traditional sense of things built into me from when I was a kid, I guess.

 

[OLHope]

I’m in sales, and over the years, I learned how to accept rejection. I imagine that what many men might fear, when it comes to asking a woman out, is that fear of rejection. Men have feelings too, it’s not unreasonable to think that it can be scary to fear someone rejecting you. With a job, or something, men and woman can justify why they were rejected for something, but with dating, it’s very personal. Could be why men who are successful, fear asking women out. I never really thought much of it, actually…men just did the asking. I was brought up that girls just don’t ask boys out, or even call them on the phone. To me, that is extreme. I teach my kids that before dating, hang out in a group, get to know the people you are interested in…if dating is meant to be, God will clear the path. I do hope my son asks out his gf’s and that my daughter doesn’t do the asking…guess old habits die hard. I just have that traditional sense of things built into me from when I was a kid, I guess.

I’m in sales, and over the years, I learned how to accept rejection.
I was involved in theater and acting, I learned to accept rejection, too! lol Dealing all day with ego’s and diva’s, it goes right over my head!

Could be why men who are successful, fear asking women out.
Hmmm, good point, interesting assimilation, looks like when you win all the time, something so personal could falter all that confidence.

I think it is fine if that was how you were brought up, I was at a peak in my life in college with offers left and right, I remember being at a housewarming party and my improv skills took over a conversation in a big group that it lured the interest of three gentleman, one of which I had more interest in, he had a very Drew Carey like personality, not as burly, but I was entertained, and he kept making advances, I was nice, I was smiling, I was on the height of my A game in comedy, and I could just tell he couldn’t blurt out what he really wanted to say, which I found out through a third party was that he wanted to ask me out, but couldn’t muster the courage. I was, at that time, a very he should ask me out only type girl as many of you are.

As I look back on it, I feel bad about it, but I was somehow bothered he didn’t just man it up there at the party in front of his friends, so I just let the moment pass us by. I hate myself for that when I think of it because what bother could it have been to jump in and say, “Hey, wanna hang out sometime?” Oh well.

 

[laariii2]

heres a question. I am friends with someone who i am 99% sure likes me and i like him. I think we would be a good match but it seems like he will never ask me out. Should i ask him out? We are both pretty traditional and i would prefer if he asked me but it seems like he never will.

 

[blue_skies_1]

The worst profile I found was a man(very attractive), who has been on there for years, he had two sisters married, a brother who is a monk, and himself left to carry on his family name, but one very oppressive line in his profile had me out of that site for good.** He clearly stated, “I need a woman who will be obedient.” **When I told my very conservative pastor this, he said, “uh, don’t even bother with him.” How does one put that in their dating for marriage profile? I mean talk about a red flag, but wow, maybe this is his way of doing his weeding out processes? All Catholic site, too! Tons of Hypocrites! Now what? I know I may sound unforgiving, but I thrive on meeting new people as long as their demeanor is uniform for the area I meet them in.

. Hey, if you think that was bad… I’m on one of these sites as well, had similar experiences… I suppose I shouldn’t quote directly but I’ve seen things like needs to be willing and able to give birth to children; not ‘fatty body’ etc… takes all sorts

 

[chevalier]

You are not old.

I am. The years just have to catch up with the rest.

I’m in sales, and over the years, I learned how to accept rejection.

I was in litigation and learnt how to deal with rejection too!

Seven full days to write a complaint,
Seven full days to write a complaint,

Six full days to write a complaint,
Six full days to write a complaint,

Five full days to write a complaint,
Gonna need more coffee!

Men have feelings too, it’s not unreasonable to think that it can be scary to fear someone rejecting you.

It’s material, yes. Friendship may have something to do, for example it may be easier asking out a stranger or it may be easier revealing your feelings to a friend whom you know to care. Overcoming it takes time. The biggest problem, however, is not rejection itself, but the manner in which it happens. A down-to-earth honest reply that you aren’t interested without treating the guy like he’s contagious (instinct reaction of especially some young women) has the potential to do the trick. Unless the guy has issues.

As for groups, I rarely feel like joining one. I’m not a group animal. Men are also less so than women are, in general. Meeting in groups has thousands of benefit (more normal, healthy atmosphere, no pressure etc), but I’d generally not join a group just to date someone.

heres a question. I am friends with someone who i am 99% sure likes me and i like him. I think we would be a good match but it seems like he will never ask me out. Should i ask him out? We are both pretty traditional and i would prefer if he asked me but it seems like he never will.

If it looks like he might be interested you can ask him, as a joke, “so, are you going to ask me out now?” or something like that. If you don’t think it would sit well, you can simply suggest going to this or that place. If you don’t call it a date and don’t make it sound like a date, you don’t have to use phrases like, “just friends,” “not a date,” etc, which a guy could understand as you setting boundaries for him and he could then play by those perceived rules.

. Hey, if you think that was bad… I’m on one of these sites as well, had similar experiences… I suppose I shouldn’t quote directly but I’ve seen things like needs to be willing and able to give birth to children; not ‘fatty body’ etc… takes all sorts

Auch. Well, I suppose you’d find a couple of flat bellies and wide shoulders in female users’ expectations. I have my own idea:

“Must not freak out when I go to the coffee shop and say, 'one kilo Crema, quarter Africa and quarter Guatemala, please.”"

Other than the chase game in dating, I do not know of other games, to be honest, and I would like to know more, but moreover would like to inquire only the first few phases of Catholic dating, of which does not go by any standard of American dating. I think if courtship goes well then you assimilate to each others perks and the people they know. I have had dozens of dates, few of which I accept a second or third date, so I may not be real privvy to some tactics that are used along the way. Does anyone have any other games or horror stories they could share, so I can better watch out for myself?

-Hope:blush:

Tons of. But I’d rather give you something positive about. Of those I have a couple too. I can tell you that sometimes people can be very surprising and a lot of goodness, which can sometimes shame us, can come from surprising directions. Sometimes you really don’t know where things start and where they go. Sometimes it takes mere hours for something to unfold.

As for head games, tell me more. I have both practical and theoretical preparation because as a teenager I read books about games people played. In fact, those were rather serious books and I read about characterology and generally human nature and communication as I went.

OLHope:

I don’t treat people like they are a lost cause, I give them a cause to live up to.

He may have paid for that date, but I paid by feeling obligated afterward.

True, men need finally to learn to do it without an obligation attached.

Kissing, really?

I so completely understand you. I so don’t see the point or cause of kissing on the first date! And *sine causa nullus actus *(okay, I made that up).

 

[Sillara]

Well, when I first met my now-husband, I didn’t think of him as a potential date. I just saw a cute guy sitting in one of our campus common rooms reading Shakespeare. I smiled, told him I particularly liked the play he was reading, and left. Later when we ran into each other at a poetry reading we chatted again. I started the conversations, but I never asked him out. I’m a friendly sort, but not flirtatious. It worked for us.

 

[OSUbride0708]

My experience could be different as I was very young (16) at the time. We were good friends at first of course, but I was the one doing the pursuing at the beginning. He was recovering from a broken heart, and I was the one who was there for him. It took him awhile to heal and to realize how special our relationship was, but once it did, he almost felt like he had to “pay me back” for awhile. He spent a long time wooing me with flowers, letters and romantic dates, and then he finally realized all that wasn’t necessary. I knew from the beginning I was supposed to be with him, and I guess he felt guilty it took him longer to realize that. However, that was 6 years ago, and we are now married with a baby on the way.

 

[OLHope]

heres a question. I am friends with someone who i am 99% sure likes me and i like him. I think we would be a good match but it seems like he will never ask me out. Should i ask him out? We are both pretty traditional and i would prefer if he asked me but it seems like he never will.

Laarii,

Here’s what I think, those odds are good. However, mind over matter. I set myself up for the rejection, because I know if it is what I expect then I’m not all that surprised, it’s when they accept that I am like, “Woops, I didn’t expect that, now what do I do?”

More importantly, like many have said on this site, to ask him out would then be that you are asking him in hopes of a courtship for marriage. Are you ready for this? Is he? Are you stabilized enough, focused, secure, etc…?

He could be really keen on only friendship, so if you ask him, and he declines, he may get distant, if you think he needs a nudge, then try, however accept now the possibility of a friendship furthering (not that it will, but just in case). He may have always seen you as the understanding friend and confidant.

Many men aren’t sure how to read if you are just being nice or nice and interested in them. Does he remember your birthday? Ask you personal things? Does he have vested interest in your hobbies and work? Does he like to pray? Does he like to volunteer for church or community causes? Would he respect you? I hope, by now, you know at least some of this. If you can mentally brace yourself, go in headstrong, I say do it, but you only go this far for someone who you personally feel is the “goods.” I don’t know where you met this person, but, uh, is he single? LOL Sorry, that is another dating game…, one I have to be more privvy to on initial contact, LOL. (sad, they hide there status sometimes)

If you feel like you can’t wait anymore, you can drop hints next time you hang out, I am sure by now you have caught on to the times he is to himself, maybe join a book club or critique art in a museum, etc…, you can ask if he likes that and knowing he has time on friday, saturday, or whenever, you can delicately suggest a date. It’s really up to you!

Good Luck!
-Hope

 

[blue_skies_1]

My experience could be different as I was very young (16) at the time. We were good friends at first of course, but I was the one doing the pursuing at the beginning. He was recovering from a broken heart, and I was the one who was there for him. It took him awhile to heal and to realize how special our relationship was, but once it did, he almost felt like he had to “pay me back” for awhile. He spent a long time wooing me with flowers, letters and romantic dates, and then he finally realized all that wasn’t necessary. I knew from the beginning I was supposed to be with him, and I guess he felt guilty it took him longer to realize that. However, that was 6 years ago, and we are now married with a baby on the way.

How lovely, congratulations!

 

[Joseph_L_Varga]

A good friend of mine has been married for almost 20 years now. We used to go backpacking together, and when he brought his fresh girlfriend (dating for maybe 6 weeks or so), I could tell that they were going to get married. They really hit it off so perfectly together. Later he told me that in some way, she made the move on him, because she initiated holding hands on one of their first dates (although I don’t remember how did they get into a dating situation in the first place). Now, 22 years and 2 kids later, it’s obvious that she made the right call then. She is not an aggressive woman or anything, she is quite sweet and spontaneous, and maybe it was just an oops moment that she acted on an attraction she felt for him. My friend previously wasted years on another girl who seemed to enjoy his interest and encouraged him off and on, keeping him ultimately as disoriented as a magnetic compass gets in the middle of the car junk yard (talking of dating games).

I would say the woman always has to signal her interest in some subtle way and give the green light to ordinary guys who simply do not want to act like jerks, and chase women against their will. What becomes funny, is that some guys miss those subtle signals and need some serious candle-power, perhaps similar to the flashing lights of a lighthouse on the cliff, until they discover that there’s a harbor waiting for them, and that they are welcome. Or imagine the airport landing lane, with a bunch of color-coded lights neatly arranged in a row, so that the less than stellar pilot wouldn’t somehow mess up the landing in poor weather conditions .

 

[whatevergirl]

A good friend of mine has been married for almost 20 years now. We used to go backpacking together, and when he brought his fresh girlfriend (dating for maybe 6 weeks or so), I could tell that they were going to get married. They really hit it off so perfectly together. Later he told me that in some way, she made the move on him, because she initiated holding hands on one of their first dates (although I don’t remember how did they get into a dating situation in the first place). Now, 22 years and 2 kids later, it’s obvious that she made the right call then. She is not an aggressive woman or anything, she is quite sweet and spontaneous, and maybe it was just an oops moment that she acted on an attraction she felt for him. My friend previously wasted years on another girl who seemed to enjoy his interest and encouraged him off and on, keeping him ultimately as disoriented as a magnetic compass gets in the middle of the car junk yard (talking of dating games).

I would say the woman always has to signal her interest in some subtle way and give the green light to ordinary guys who simply do not want to act like jerks, and chase women against their will. What becomes funny, is that some guys miss those subtle signals and need some serious candle-power, perhaps similar to the flashing lights of a lighthouse on the cliff, until they discover that there’s a harbor waiting for them, and that they are welcome. Or imagine the airport landing lane, with a bunch of color-coded lights neatly arranged in a row, so that the less than stellar pilot wouldn’t somehow mess up the landing in poor weather conditions .

 

[chevalier]

A good friend of mine has been married for almost 20 years now. We used to go backpacking together, and when he brought his fresh girlfriend (dating for maybe 6 weeks or so), I could tell that they were going to get married.

Aww. What a nice story. Well, I once had a girl go 30 kilometres with me through sand and wind and somehow… I’m where I am.

She is not an aggressive woman or anything, she is quite sweet and spontaneous, and maybe it was just an oops moment that she acted on an attraction she felt for him.

Or a moment of affection. Holding hands is more of an affection thing. It’s normal for female friends, it’s just we guys don’t do it.

My friend previously wasted years on another girl who seemed to enjoy his interest and encouraged him off and on, keeping him ultimately as disoriented as a magnetic compass gets in the middle of the car junk yard (talking of dating games).

It’s difficult to let go of a source of admiration, I guess. Perhaps she was somewhat interested but not enough.

I would say the woman always has to signal her interest in some subtle way and give the green light to ordinary guys who simply do not want to act like jerks, and chase women against their will.

I’d say a signal in response. Honestly, as long as the woman is not married, not a religious, not with a guy, a gentle hint on a man’s part is not a crime. A sense of humour is important. It makes things less tense.

What becomes funny, is that some guys miss those subtle signals and need some serious candle-power, perhaps similar to the flashing lights of a lighthouse on the cliff, until they discover that there’s a harbor waiting for them, and that they are welcome. Or imagine the airport landing lane, with a bunch of color-coded lights neatly arranged in a row, so that the less than stellar pilot wouldn’t somehow mess up the landing in poor weather conditions .

I don’t know what’s in your drink, but I want one too. And cease talking about planes to us that have swords girt about us! (Wham!)

 

[Joseph_L_Varga]

Don’t laugh, Whatevergirl, you’re all set and married, easy to laugh now, yeah? Wait, how old is your son, 16? Teach him to be a Cool Captain! Have you got a Princess, too?