Who Will You Vote For in 2012?

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But what about proportionate reasoning…and all that? What sense does it make to have all of these babies if we are going to not give them a living wage, free health care, food stamps, government retirement, subsidized housing, child care assistance and free college tuition?
If you have a living wage, you don’t need food stamps nor subsidized housing. There are few, if any states, that offer free college tuition to its residents. You may oppose Social Security, but I don’t. Something approaching free health care can be a possibility.
 
If you have a living wage, you don’t need food stamps nor subsidized housing. There are few, if any states, that offer free college tuition to its residents. You may oppose Social Security, but I don’t. Something approaching free health care can be a possibility.
I oppose all of the stuff I mentioned, but that should be no secret to anyone who has ever posted in these forums.

Define a “living wage”, because I have never heard a good, objective, quantified number as to what that is or means.

Social Security is a Ponzi scheme designed to transfer wealth from the young to the old. It isn’t a safety net, it is a retirement entitlement program, same as Medicare. I oppose all entitlement programs run at the federal level, and belief in rigorous means testing at the local level, and would prefer charity to do that work and take it out of the hands of politicians…like Chucky.
 
But what about proportionate reasoning…and all that? What sense does it make to have all of these babies if we are going to not give them a living wage, free health care, food stamps, government retirement, subsidized housing, child care assistance and free college tuition?
It actually works the other. Social Security, Medicare, and all the rest, are in danger because the aging population is greater than the younger generation. Bringing life in means all the goods and services required to help them will also be needed.
 
We have to be very careful with this nation. Liberty is far more important than many people today realize. Yet, one cannot have full equality and liberty at the same time…it is impossible in this world.
 
We have to be very careful with this nation. Liberty is far more important than many people today realize. Yet, one cannot have full equality and liberty at the same time…it is impossible in this world.
Try to sell that to anyone who subscribes to the junk that Marx and Engels created.
 
But what about proportionate reasoning…and all that? What sense does it make to have all of these babies if we are going to not give them a living wage, free health care, food stamps, government retirement, subsidized housing, child care assistance and free college tuition?
But we are also giving money to virtually all of the nations of the world instead of keeping it here? I do not know for a fact how much, but we could help stabilize the deficit by keeping that money here?

OK Guys and Gals, I have my defensive shields on, so I am ready.
I voted for Obama!!!:nunchuk:

I believe this is not only the Democrats but also the Republicans fault for this economy we have now. The tax issue for the wealthy was a much ado about nothing.
The businesses have been hoarding cash for the last few years because of that issue and that was wrong.

I work for the Government of North Carolina and we have not had a raise since 2008 and that was very small even at that time. Then my wife lost her job about a year and a half later. So, this has hurt us a lot. I do not like Abortion at all but it is not my main focus. I know, I know(but it should). Economy and trying to find my wife a job along with our kids welfare is my main job. We had to cash in most of my wife’s retirement funds to keep us afloat. I will have to get a part time job if I can find one to make ends meet.

Oh well, I guess I am ready for the onslaught.

Peace
Paul:shrug:
 
But we are also giving money to virtually all of the nations of the world instead of keeping it here? I do not know for a fact how much, but we could help stabilize the deficit by keeping that money here?

OK Guys and Gals, I have my defensive shields on, so I am ready.
I voted for Obama!!!:nunchuk:

I believe this is not only the Democrats but also the Republicans fault for this economy we have now. The tax issue for the wealthy was a much ado about nothing.
The businesses have been hoarding cash for the last few years because of that issue and that was wrong.

I work for the Government of North Carolina and we have not had a raise since 2008 and that was very small even at that time. Then my wife lost her job about a year and a half later. So, this has hurt us a lot. I do not like Abortion at all but it is not my main focus. I know, I know(but it should). Economy and trying to find my wife a job is along with our kids welfare is my main job. We had to cash in most of my wife’s retirement funds to keep us afloat. I will have to get a part time job if I can find one to make ends meet.

Oh well, I guess I am ready for the onslaught.

Peace
Paul:shrug:
Look up Bretton Woods Conference and tell me what you come up with, then refer back to my post where I stated that most of the economic mess we are in traces back to FDR (and Wilson had some key contributions)
 
But we are also giving money to virtually all of the nations of the world instead of keeping it here? I do not know for a fact how much, but we could help stabilize the deficit by keeping that money here?

OK Guys and Gals, I have my defensive shields on, so I am ready.
I voted for Obama!!!:nunchuk:

I believe this is not only the Democrats but also the Republicans fault for this economy we have now. The tax issue for the wealthy was a much ado about nothing.
The businesses have been hoarding cash for the last few years because of that issue and that was wrong.

I work for the Government of North Carolina and we have not had a raise since 2008 and that was very small even at that time. Then my wife lost her job about a year and a half later. So, this has hurt us a lot. I do not like Abortion at all but it is not my main focus. I know, I know(but it should). Economy and trying to find my wife a job along with our kids welfare is my main job. We had to cash in most of my wife’s retirement funds to keep us afloat. I will have to get a part time job if I can find one to make ends meet.

Oh well, I guess I am ready for the onslaught.

Peace
Paul:shrug:
WE can all have conversations about the economy and how best to make it stronger (I am personally on the side of smaller government and far less taxes). However, we depart sharply regarding the issue of life. The Deomcratic Party (the one you voted for) is rabidly pro-abortion, and any Catholic who votes for a Democrat is directly helping keep abortion legal.
 
I agree, but liberty lost is very hard to regain.
You cannot regain it. That is why we had a Declaration of Independence. You can only get to the point where you are compelled to either submit to slavery or decide to throw off the shackles that bind you and push the restart button. I say the later is going to happen in relatively short order. But that is only my opinion.
 
You cannot regain it. That is why we had a Declaration of Independence. You can only get to the point where you are compelled to either submit to slavery or decide to throw off the shackles that bind you and push the restart button. I say the later is going to happen in relatively short order. But that is only my opinion.
Perhaps, we will see.
 
But we are also giving money to virtually all of the nations of the world instead of keeping it here? I do not know for a fact how much, but we could help stabilize the deficit by keeping that money here?

OK Guys and Gals, I have my defensive shields on, so I am ready.
I voted for Obama!!!:nunchuk:

I believe this is not only the Democrats but also the Republicans fault for this economy we have now. The tax issue for the wealthy was a much ado about nothing.
The businesses have been hoarding cash for the last few years because of that issue and that was wrong.

I work for the Government of North Carolina and we have not had a raise since 2008 and that was very small even at that time. Then my wife lost her job about a year and a half later. So, this has hurt us a lot. I do not like Abortion at all but it is not my main focus. I know, I know(but it should). Economy and trying to find my wife a job along with our kids welfare is my main job. We had to cash in most of my wife’s retirement funds to keep us afloat. I will have to get a part time job if I can find one to make ends meet.

Oh well, I guess I am ready for the onslaught.

Peace
Paul:shrug:
No onslaught, just a few questions. Do you think that Obama has been successful so far? Has the 787 billion in stimulus $$ helped the economy rebound? Or, to put it another way, which do you think will create jobs, the federal govt by taking money from business and redistributing it, or the business sector itself, investing and expanding because they are reasonably assured their $$ won’t be confiscated by govt to redistribute? Which do you think will give you more opportunities for your family, an expanding and robust economy based on increased business investment and activity, or a robust federal govt., increasing its power and scope? There are many people who voted for Obama and now regret that vote. Considering that the unemployment rate is now 9%, higher than when Obama took office, do you think his policies have been successful and that he deserves your vote?

Ishii
 
Bush inherited it from Clinton, who inherited it from Bush, who inherited it from Reagan, who inherited it from Carter, who inherited it from Ford, who inherited it from Nixon, who inherited it from Johnson, who inherited it from Kennedy, who inherited it from Eisenhower, who inherited it from Truman, who inherited it from Roosevelt…which is where most of it started. What’s your point?
Bush had eight years. He destroyed the economy in the end. If Obama doesn’t succeed in two terms, than it is his fault. But it’s ridiculous to say that he’s responsible for the mess. At least he did stop a depression like the 1930’s.

By the way, FDR saved your economy
 
I agree. Since abortion isn considered an absolute intrinsic evil by the Church, and since the Church condemns abortion in all its various forms, and since the Church says Catholics cannot support abortion in any way, it is shocking that so many people who claim to be Catholics support abortion with their votes.
Voting for a politician who supports abortion is not voting for abortion. It’s voter intent that matters. I voted NDP here in Canada because I wanted job creation and more compassion for the middle class, not because of abortion
 
if we vote for Democrats, we are voting for abortion even if we do not intend to do so. If we desire the end of legal abortion, we cannot attain that with the Democratic Party.
I think you just proved my point about one-issue voters only supporting right-wingers
 
I think you just proved my point about one-issue voters only supporting right-wingers
The entire notion of being a one issue voter comes from academia. Professors and scholars have spread the completely false notion that being a single issue voter means one is less intelluctual or somehow less smart than those who do otherwise. That, of course, is absolute nonsense, yet people buy into that thinking all the time in order to justify their gravely immoral choices.

It is by far away NOT a right wing or left wing issue…it is a life issue–period. It just so happens that politicians on the left gladly proclaim their desire to continue killing unborn babies, while most (not all) politicians on the right want to see abortion legally banned. There are a great many people who would love to vote for a Democrat because of other social justice issues, yet life trumps other issues because without life the rest is meaningless.

During the days leading up to the Civil War the left was on the side of legallized slavery (but they hid that under other issues), and today the left is doing the exact same to the unborn. The right got rid of legal slavery and it will get rid of legal abortion.

The USA is either a people of “LIFE, LIBERTY AND THE PURSUIT OF HAPPINESS,” or it is not. Right now, it is not.
 
Bush had eight years. He destroyed the economy in the end. If Obama doesn’t succeed in two terms, than it is his fault. But it’s ridiculous to say that he’s responsible for the mess. At least he did stop a depression like the 1930’s.

By the way, FDR saved your economy
The economic mess was a group effort - the housing crisis which has driven the recession was thanks in no small part to the sub-prime mortgage bubble bursting - foreseen by many but not at all responded to by Barney Frank or Chris Dodd. There is much blame to go around - true, it happened on Bush’s watch so he gets some of the blame but its the height of partisan hyperbole to say the “Bush destroyed the economy”.

If FDR “saved the economy” it took eight years and a world war to achieve that. The depression started in 1929. In 1937 there was a “depression within the depression” . FDR did not end the depression or save the economy. If anything, he prolonged it.

Ishii
 
During the days leading up to the Civil War the left was on the side of legallized slavery.
Just a slight correction…there was no left and right in the mid-19th century as we know the terms. It just reflects how parties once sat in the French Parliament in the 19th century…

The interests of the lower classes defined the left, those of the upper classes defined the right.
 
If FDR “saved the economy” it took eight years and a world war to achieve that. The depression started in 1929. In 1937 there was a “depression within the depression” . FDR did not end the depression or save the economy. If anything, he prolonged it.
Oh, come on. The depression ended around 1939, which was under FDR’s watch. If he was terrible, he wouldn’t have been voted by the people to serve four terms
 
Bush had eight years. He destroyed the economy in the end. If Obama doesn’t succeed in two terms, than it is his fault. But it’s ridiculous to say that he’s responsible for the mess. At least he did stop a depression like the 1930’s.

By the way, FDR saved your economy
:rotfl: Ya, I know that is the story they tell in schools. Thank God I homeschool and understand economics. FDR put ruinous policies in place that are STILL messing up our economy.
 
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