Who Will You Vote For in 2012?

[Veritas_Vincit]

Jesus did what his mother told him to do.

I love that miracle.

 

[bellasbane]

My point was “and your point is?”

There are families where the man still believes himself authorized to raise his voice and hands on the women of the house. Wife and children at times live under the constant threat of “Daddy’s anger.” To such as these it is necessary to say courteously: dear men colleagues, by creating you male, God did not intend to give you the right to be angry and to bang your fist on the table for the least thing. The word addressed to Eve after the fault: “He (the man) shall rule over you” (Genesis 3:16), was a bitter forecast, not an authorization.

John Paul II inaugurated the practice of the request for forgiveness for collective wrongs. One of these, among the most just and necessary, is the forgiveness that half of humanity must ask of the other half, men to women. It must not be generic or abstract. It must lead, especially in one who professes himself a Christian, to concrete gestures of conversion, to words of apology and reconciliation within families and in society.

cantalamessa.org/en/predicheView.php?id=354#

 

[SwordandShield]

There are families where the man still believes himself authorized to raise his voice and hands on the women of the house. Wife and children at times live under the constant threat of “Daddy’s anger.” To such as these it is necessary to say courteously: dear men colleagues, by creating you male, God did not intend to give you the right to be angry and to bang your fist on the table for the least thing. The word addressed to Eve after the fault: “He (the man) shall rule over you” (Genesis 3:16), was a bitter forecast, not an authorization.

John Paul II inaugurated the practice of the request for forgiveness for collective wrongs. One of these, among the most just and necessary, is the forgiveness that half of humanity must ask of the other half, men to women. It must not be generic or abstract. It must lead, especially in one who professes himself a Christian, to concrete gestures of conversion, to words of apology and reconciliation within families and in society.

cantalamessa.org/en/predicheView.php?id=354#

Ephesians 5:25-27 Husbands, love your wives, just as Christ also loved the church and gave Himself up for her

A man who raises such action against his wife is not following scripture either. I’m still not understanding your point. Let’s start with: What do you mean by Feminist?

 

[bellasbane]

I love that miracle.

Me too!

 

[Bohm_Bawerk]

Nonsense…uter and absolute nonsense. Planned Parenthood kills more babies then anyone else in the nation and the dems fight like crazy to fund them and to keep them going…it has nothing at all to do with womens health because women can get that anywhere–but they cannot get abortion anywhere.

The GOP is not any off those things you claim…and that can be proved, yet that would take us way off target and is not worth the time anyway because you won’t believe facts.

People are repulsed by Republicans? Really? Did you see how many people voted for McCain? He was a terrible candidate and he was just a few percent away from winning. How about Bush I and II, or Reagan…people hated them–really? See, the left says things and they think by saying it it must be true. Utter nonsense. Laughable nonsense.

So, let’s just put this thread into perspective.

To be a Catholic, you need to vote Republican (according to yourself and a few others)? That, in essence, is what many here are trying to say.

Thank you,
Eugen von Böhm-Bawerk

 

[pismopal]

Ancient times, yeah women had real power then. I believe a husband could legally kill his wife in “pre Christian Rome”. No coercion there.

Believe your twisted view of women - you obviously don’t understand us at all. If you begin with the premise that women can’t be trusted, then you are simply following the same line of thought that prevented us from getting the vote until 1920.

Maybe my beautiful wife of 50 years…my only wife and my 3 lovely adult daughters would disagree with your assessment of my opinion of women. The subject of your post was women and infanticide, not men and the horrible things that men have done. My remarks were historically correct and not meant to offend anyone. You seem to be at a very tender and trying point in your life…I will remember to pray for you but regardless of this…abortion is not a womans right…or a man’s right…it is simply wrong on every level and you know it in the center of your knowing.

 

[bellasbane]

Ephesians 5:25-27 Husbands, love your wives, just as Christ also loved the church and gave Himself up for her

A man who raises such action against his wife is not following scripture either. I’m still not understanding your point. Let’s start with: What do you mean by Feminist?

It’s getting late and I have to get my kids to bed.

If you don’t understand the term “Feminist” and how it relates to the Catholic Church, just click on my banner. It will take you to a website that should give you a good idea of where I’m coming from. It is an organization endorsed by the USCCB.

 

[Veritas_Vincit]

So, let’s just put this thread into perspective.

To be a Catholic, you need to vote Republican (according to yourself and a few others)? That, in essence, is what many here are trying to say.

Thank you,
Eugen von Böhm-Bawerk

Yep, You got it right.

 

[Bohm_Bawerk]

Yep, You got it right.

Thanks for responding .

I’m not sure about you, but I personally find it disgusting that people are being coaxed into voting for the Republicans just to make themselves appear more “Catholic”. I’m not a leftist at all, but I used to have so much respect for the Church that it was an apoliticial institution unlike many Protestant churches. This thread has shown me otherwise, and that respect - quite frankly - has been lost.

It’s possible to be a Catholic and to be left-wing. What do people find so hard in believing this? The only things as a left-wing Catholic you can not agree with are on issues such as women ordination for priesthood, abortion, birth control and a few others. It may come as a shock to some here, but you can be a legitimate Leftist without adhering to any of those things And one other user put it best that the Republicans will merely exploit those who are single-issue pro-life voters to ensure they have a steady stream of voters for the next election lol.

Thank you,
Eugen von Böhm-Bawerk

 

[Rich_Olszewski]

It’s possible to be a Catholic and to be left-wing. What do people find so hard in believing this? The only things as a left-wing Catholic you can not agree with are on issues such as women ordination for priesthood, abortion, birth control and a few others. It may come as a shock to some here, but you can be a legitimate Leftist without adhering to any of those things.
Eugen von Böhm-Bawerk

I am one Catholic leftist who says, “Exactly so. Right on the mark!”

 

[SwordandShield]

Thanks for responding .

I’m not sure about you, but I personally find it disgusting that people are being coaxed into voting for the Republicans just to make themselves appear more “Catholic”. I’m not a leftist at all, but I used to have so much respect for the Church that it was an apoliticial institution unlike many Protestant churches. This thread has shown me otherwise, and that respect - quite frankly - has been lost.

It’s possible to be a Catholic and to be left-wing. What do people find so hard in believing this? The only things as a left-wing Catholic you can not agree with are on issues such as women ordination for priesthood, abortion, birth control and a few others. It may come as a shock to some here, but you can be a legitimate Leftist without adhering to any of those things And one other user put it best that the Republicans will merely exploit those who are single-issue pro-life voters to ensure they have a steady stream of voters for the next election lol.

Thank you,
Eugen von Böhm-Bawerk

What, pray tell, is a leftist ideology that coincides with Church teaching? I don’t affiliate myself with any political party, but liberals (progressives) have never sided with Church doctrine.

 

[Bohm_Bawerk]

What, pray tell, is a leftist ideology that coincides with Church teaching? I don’t affiliate myself with any political party, but liberals (progressives) have never sided with Church doctrine.

I’ll give you an example. It’s not necessary for a Catholic to believe in the principle of subsidiarity. It’s a Church recommendation, but definitely not infallible or binding on all the faithful. Leftists would disagree with it and they shouldn’t be insulted as being “less Catholic” than someone who agrees with it.

If I’m not mistaken, if someone agrees with abortion, birth control, and all the other topics the Church has taught infallibly against, then they have excommunicated themselves implicitly. In other words, they are not Catholics but heretics.

The Church could easily put the issue of abortion to rest by openly naming-and-shaming Catholic politicians who support abortion. In fact, the responsibility is more on the Church’s shoulders rather than the voters because they have full knowledge of Church teaching whilst many voters could at least use the excuse of invincible ignorance. If anyone wants to put the blame of abortion on voters, automatically, they must also put that blame on the Pope as well for doing relatively little to end the massacre. But unfortunately some people here believe the Pope is greater than human and without fault.

Thank you,
Eugen von Böhm-Bawerk

 

[Rich_Olszewski]

What, pray tell, is a leftist ideology that coincides with Church teaching? I don’t affiliate myself with any political party, but liberals (progressives) have never sided with Church doctrine.

Why, how ever did you guess that? I’m been a practicing Catholic since I was 7 years old, (61 years ago) and naturally when I was old enough to choose to be a liberal, I rejected the Real Presence.because we “never side with Church doctrine.” You make me laugh, but lest I split a gut, I’ll just not ever respond to your absurd remarks about people who don’t tow the right wing line.

 

[Scott_Lafrance]

When will you all learn? The abortion issue is lost. We cannot stop it through Congress, or our state legislatures, or any other elected official. The Supreme Court time and time again ruled that abortion is a constitutional right. How about we stop supporting the Party that lies to us and pulls reverse socialism on us. You are all against socialism but you don’t realize that the Republican Party is the socialist party for the rich. You hate theft but you are ok with them stealing the poor’s money to give to the wealthy. You say it is ok to bomb children in Iraq as long as the Republicans claim to care for the unborn. You claim Catholics that have a brain and know that the Republicans are liers are false Catholics. Anyone who claims that the Democrats are the Party of Death need to have their brain examined. The Republican Party is the party of death. Of the seven justices in the majority during Roe v. Wade, 5 of them were Republicans. Ronald Reagan, as governor of California, legalized abortion before Roe v. Wade. Why did the Republicans do nothing to stop abortion when they controlled the Presidency, Senate, House, and Supreme Court from 2001-2007? Why didn’t they do anything? It’s because they need your votes. Every year they claim they will stop abortion but all they do is toss out some bones to get your support. The partial birth abortion ban, which stops around 1,000 abortions a year? Give me a break. The Republican Party is nothing more than a party of anti-christs.

Well then, we should tell all of the black people in the country that slavery is a Constitutional right and was upheld by the irreversable Dred Scott ruling.

 

[RosalieM]

I decided that since I will not vote for anyone pro-abortion, and I can not stand the Republicans’ seeming disdain for the poor and vulnerable in society; well, I decided I ain’t gonna vote no more.
Yes, I realize I will be an “irresponsible citizen” by not voting; but I’ve decided it’s the lesser transgression.

 

[pismopal]

Yep, You got it right.

I don’t see it that way. Most of the energy used here has been about whether abortion is right or wrong and how one political party is overwhelmingly more abortion friendly than the other. The choice seems easy to me but not so for many. Seems like a waste of time to go to mass and then support the murder of the unborn. I am a Catholic first and foremost…I wanted this…I asked for it.

 

[Tsuwano]

What is your guess…he dislikes Israel?

No, my guess is that he has never described himself as pro Israel and anti Palestine or anti Israeli and pro Palestinian. My guess is that your description of him as “pro Israel” is, exactly as you stated, a guess and not based on any solid information. My guess is that the statement is based merely upon your own ideology.

 

[estesbob]

Thanks for responding .

I’m not sure about you, but I personally find it disgusting that people are being coaxed into voting for the Republicans just to make themselves appear more “Catholic”. I’m not a leftist at all, but I used to have so much respect for the Church that it was an apoliticial institution unlike many Protestant churches. This thread has shown me otherwise, and that respect - quite frankly - has been lost.

It’s possible to be a Catholic and to be left-wing. What do people find so hard in believing this? The only things as a left-wing Catholic you can not agree with are on issues such as women ordination for priesthood, abortion, birth control and a few others. It may come as a shock to some here, but you can be a legitimate Leftist without adhering to any of those things And one other user put it best that the Republicans will merely exploit those who are single-issue pro-life voters to ensure they have a steady stream of voters for the next election lol.

Thank you,
Eugen von Böhm-Bawerk

Nobody is trying to shame you into voting conservative. You wont listen to the Church so no one is under the illusion you will listed to some anonymus internet poster. However there are lots of lurkers in these forums and we post for them-they need to know that the “republicans are so evil they force us enlightened Liberal Catholics to support abortion” philosophy is utter nonsense. A Catholic simply can not support abortion. All the rationalizations about greater good and evil republicans will not undo that. People ignore the Church’s teahings at their own risk.

 

[estesbob]

I decided that since I will not vote for anyone pro-abortion, and I can not stand the Republicans’ seeming disdain for the poor and vulnerable in society; well, I decided I ain’t gonna vote no more.
Yes, I realize I will be an “irresponsible citizen” by not voting; but I’ve decided it’s the lesser transgression.

"All that is necessary for the triumph of evil is that good men do nothing." (Edmund Burke)

 

[Rich_Olszewski]

I decided that since I will not vote for anyone pro-abortion, and I can not stand the Republicans’ seeming disdain for the poor and vulnerable in society; well, I decided I ain’t gonna vote no more.
Yes, I realize I will be an “irresponsible citizen” by not voting; but I’ve decided it’s the lesser transgression.

I agree with you up to the point of deciding that I won’t exercise the franchise. I think we needn’t go that far, and can still vote in other races. No irresponsibility on your part unless you don’t vote at all. The Church says we have an obligation to participate in civil affairs, but doesn’t demand that we vote in every race.