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estesbob
Guest
The Church shares you assessment.
- Status
I
ishii
Guest
A cardinal is not just "one man’s opinion. I think we ought to reflect on what a cardinal says more than we’d do for the “guy on the street.” Also, bellasbane, who has said that the Church endorses the Republican party? Examples please, otherwise quit with the strawmen. Its getting old.
Ishii
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elgar
Guest
It keeps going back to the issue of slavery in this country. Most people didn’t own slaves but they put up with the institution as a necessary evil–call it the equivalence to the pro-choice line–I’m personally opposed but…If you didn’t fight to end slavery, you were Pro-Slavery.
I challenge the die-hard dems to refute the 3 most important issues to the party:
1-Unfettered abortion rights
2-GLBT equivalence/equity in all instances
3-Income redistribution
R
Rich_Olszewski
Guest
Whom would you rather have seen on the Democratic ticket - Obama or Clinton?
I know you see it as no choice, but on the basis of sheer capability and experience, I saw Clinton as far and away the better candidate and the one more likely to run the country without ruining it.
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estesbob
Guest
I have always objected to the idea that abortion is a women’s issue. The reason being that this seems to be based on an assumption that women kill their children only because society by their lack of support of women’s issues, forces them to. The solution generally are offered then is more programs for women. At which point abortion will magically disappear.
Make no mistake-abortion is a human rights issue, not a women’s issue. There is absolutely no correlation between the rate of abortion and funding for social programs and the level of support for “women’s issues”"
There is, by the way, a huge correlation between the amount of money contributed to a pro-abortion candidate and their likelihood of being elected. And of course, once elected, one cannot expect a pro-abortion candidate to oppose abortion because some of the people who funded him are pro-life.
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estesbob
Guest
Matters not to me as both of them support unrestricted taxpayer funded abortion on demand. Neither could be supported in good conscience by faithful Catholic. You might as well ask me who I’d rather live under -Pol Pot or Osama bin Laden?
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catechizeme
Guest
I think a more accurate outcome would be achieved by only two options:
- Obama
- Anybody but Obama
C
catholictiger
Guest
if its illegal on a federal level yes it will happen, and I disagree I think it could happen not likely but good chnage
most of the exceptions include rape and incest. Not state by state acceptions.
but abortion hopefully will be illegal in all states with maybe an exception but I rather not.
I disagree if RVW is overturned then abortion could very well if we have the correct make up, abortion could be illegal.
C
catholictiger
Guest
even the GOP has some issues that they could stop.
i don’t like to associate myself with a party.
N
nordskoven
Guest
Fr. Andrew Greeley, Chicago priest-novelist, said, “It’s a mortal sin to vote Republican.” Priestly sex predation bankrupts Democrat parishes that send perps to counseling with a Golden Parachute retirement plan (per Dallas) instead of administering justice like Republican venues that whisk them off to jail. The paralyzing “learned helplessness” of Catholics expected to heed a priest who damns Republicans, the pro-life party, is extensively exploited. These guys know their stuff. Those dumbed-down schools are paying off. Those legally-mandated mercury-filled “green” light bulbs will keep the insanity coming.
Unions, once the bastion of justice for workers, strip pension funds and issues false 1099’s for retirees to pay taxes on cash they never received. Unions, once the bulwark of excellence, is the refuge of mediocrity with teacher’s unions fighting against objective testing of their skills. Unions (including consumer unions like AARP) once the foe of the elitists, got Democrat waivers from socialized medicine targeting under-twelve-year-olds and over-fifty-eight-year olds for death by neglect. Pro-life Democrats were easily bribed to support abortion at every stage of life, including Partial Birth Abortion, and paid for as part of socialized medicine with a 15-man death panel deciding who lives and who dies.
The Democrats have become top-down regulatory fascists. General Electric paid no taxes for buying GM’s polluting battery-assist cars whose battery banks will hit the unk heap every five years; mercury light bulbs spread by law even as consumers are told to treat broken bulbs like the toxic waste they are. All this came by linking government with private enterprise versus the people. This is the classic definition of fascism.
Fascism accelerated with Democrats seizing the land of poor people under government authority, eminent domain, in order to turn it over to developers who pump higher taxes into government coffers. General Motors has become the first nationalized car company. National Socialists, NAZI’s, was complicit with the Muslim Brotherhood in Germany as they urged extermination; and the nationalizing socialists are again complicit with the Muslim Brotherhood, fueling phony populist revolutions to put them in power by bombing Muslim countries willy-nilly to emplace this genocidal Jew-hating axis. Bought and paid for, George Soros controlled Clinton and Obama in his march to crash yet another economy, profiting by shorting currency. Barak has had fewer and fewer briefings on the economy as the slide continues because he knows Soros’ agenda is a done deal, a deal Soros has made in collusion with media figures he underwrites, like Christiana Amanpour. The best government and press money can buy…
Look in the mirror. Vote for your enlightened self-interests. We forgot the Jews of Rome under the fascists who clung to hollow assurances while their rabbi urged action. They believed the Big Lie. Judge by the fruits. Alliances with grass-roots activists will insure that fake populists like Soros-funded Move On will move on. Let unions regain their voice, not their privilege. Let reality reign. Let Wall Street fail on their dime. Let profiteering from carbon credits that tax the poor collapse with Russian-financed Occidental Petroleum oil baron Al Gore’s mask of deceit. Let the missiles from Jimmy Carter’s favorite dictator, Hugo Chavez, be turned into Venezuelan grain silos.
Remove the blight of flooded cropland and burned timberland by kicking out the kooky eco-bureaucrats who wouldn’t release reservoirs or clear forest floors. Remove the blight of a housing market where 25% of homes are upside-down in their mortgages by unleashing our economy. Remove poverty by punishing employers of illegal alien wage slaves, instead of pestering employers with high taxes and uncertainty. Remove the blight of self-genocide by encouraging higher adoption credits, and higher exemptions for all dependents, whether children, the handicapped, or aged parents. Let the Tea Party, feared by billionaire Democrat New York Mayor Bloomburg for wanting to audit the Federal Reserve, shed light on why interest rates have dwindled to nothing. “Pray and work” as Saint Benedict urged. “Pray always,” as Christ commanded. Our votes will prevail in spite of assaults by the New Black Panther Party thugs wielding ball bats as we are more than voters. We are activists in the American Union, fearing God and nothing else. It is a mortal sin to vote Democrat. Vote “R” for life.
Unions, once the bastion of justice for workers, strip pension funds and issues false 1099’s for retirees to pay taxes on cash they never received. Unions, once the bulwark of excellence, is the refuge of mediocrity with teacher’s unions fighting against objective testing of their skills. Unions (including consumer unions like AARP) once the foe of the elitists, got Democrat waivers from socialized medicine targeting under-twelve-year-olds and over-fifty-eight-year olds for death by neglect. Pro-life Democrats were easily bribed to support abortion at every stage of life, including Partial Birth Abortion, and paid for as part of socialized medicine with a 15-man death panel deciding who lives and who dies.
The Democrats have become top-down regulatory fascists. General Electric paid no taxes for buying GM’s polluting battery-assist cars whose battery banks will hit the unk heap every five years; mercury light bulbs spread by law even as consumers are told to treat broken bulbs like the toxic waste they are. All this came by linking government with private enterprise versus the people. This is the classic definition of fascism.
Fascism accelerated with Democrats seizing the land of poor people under government authority, eminent domain, in order to turn it over to developers who pump higher taxes into government coffers. General Motors has become the first nationalized car company. National Socialists, NAZI’s, was complicit with the Muslim Brotherhood in Germany as they urged extermination; and the nationalizing socialists are again complicit with the Muslim Brotherhood, fueling phony populist revolutions to put them in power by bombing Muslim countries willy-nilly to emplace this genocidal Jew-hating axis. Bought and paid for, George Soros controlled Clinton and Obama in his march to crash yet another economy, profiting by shorting currency. Barak has had fewer and fewer briefings on the economy as the slide continues because he knows Soros’ agenda is a done deal, a deal Soros has made in collusion with media figures he underwrites, like Christiana Amanpour. The best government and press money can buy…
Look in the mirror. Vote for your enlightened self-interests. We forgot the Jews of Rome under the fascists who clung to hollow assurances while their rabbi urged action. They believed the Big Lie. Judge by the fruits. Alliances with grass-roots activists will insure that fake populists like Soros-funded Move On will move on. Let unions regain their voice, not their privilege. Let reality reign. Let Wall Street fail on their dime. Let profiteering from carbon credits that tax the poor collapse with Russian-financed Occidental Petroleum oil baron Al Gore’s mask of deceit. Let the missiles from Jimmy Carter’s favorite dictator, Hugo Chavez, be turned into Venezuelan grain silos.
Remove the blight of flooded cropland and burned timberland by kicking out the kooky eco-bureaucrats who wouldn’t release reservoirs or clear forest floors. Remove the blight of a housing market where 25% of homes are upside-down in their mortgages by unleashing our economy. Remove poverty by punishing employers of illegal alien wage slaves, instead of pestering employers with high taxes and uncertainty. Remove the blight of self-genocide by encouraging higher adoption credits, and higher exemptions for all dependents, whether children, the handicapped, or aged parents. Let the Tea Party, feared by billionaire Democrat New York Mayor Bloomburg for wanting to audit the Federal Reserve, shed light on why interest rates have dwindled to nothing. “Pray and work” as Saint Benedict urged. “Pray always,” as Christ commanded. Our votes will prevail in spite of assaults by the New Black Panther Party thugs wielding ball bats as we are more than voters. We are activists in the American Union, fearing God and nothing else. It is a mortal sin to vote Democrat. Vote “R” for life.
C
catholictiger
Guest
your post is to long to do this but ill say this
its not a mortal sin to vote dem or gop
its a sin to vote for someone who is clearly and staunchly against Catholic teaching like abortion.
Obama is an example of a pro choice poiltician no catholic should ever vote for
but there are plenty of pro life dems, and pro choice GOP
you never know you may one day run into a pro choice GOP vs pro life dem. if those are the only two on the ticket you are morally obligated to vote for the dem or not vote for either.
its not a mortal sin to vote dem or gop
its a sin to vote for someone who is clearly and staunchly against Catholic teaching like abortion.
Obama is an example of a pro choice poiltician no catholic should ever vote for
but there are plenty of pro life dems, and pro choice GOP
you never know you may one day run into a pro choice GOP vs pro life dem. if those are the only two on the ticket you are morally obligated to vote for the dem or not vote for either.
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ishii
Guest
If pressed, and in retrospect, I would rather have seen Clinton. But at the time (thinking it was a Democrat year) I viewed Obama as the weaker candidate due to his lack of experience. So I wanted the weaker candidate in the hopes that McCain would have a better chance to win. I also think Clinton is just as much wedded to the abortion rights crowd as Obama. She might be a bit better on foreign policy but on the other issues - spending, taxes, govt. run healthcare,etc, she is right there with Obama.
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ishii
Guest
Perhaps, but given the fact that the Democrat party is bought and paid for by the abortion lobby, any vote which strengthens the hand of the party itself - a vote which keeps Barbara Boxer in the majority for example with the power to push her abortion rights agenda or a vote which gives Pelosi back the gavel and power - is arguably morally non-permissible. If I thought voting for a pro-life Democrat would mean the eventual overthrow of the abortion orthodoxy of the Democrat party, then I’d be very inclined to vote for the Democrat.
Ishii
R
Ridgerunner
Guest
I will agree in part, disagree in part. If it’s a prolife Dem vs a pro-abortion Repub, your only choice is to vote for the prolife Dem. I do not personally believe that not voting at all would be a valid moral choice.
(Understanding that nowadays a “prolife Dem” is virtually an oxymoron.)
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estesbob
Guest
If faced with a pro-life Democrat running against the pro-abortion Republican I would vote for the Democrat. There is nothing that the Republican could do the could mitigate his support of abortion. Even if I agreed with them on a hundred percent of the other issues you simply cannot trust somebody in a leadership position the that believes that mothers have a right to kill their children.
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catholictiger
Guest
While a catholic should always vote I don’t think its a moral obligation. There are situations where it may not be worth it to vote for either candidate. Luckly that rarely happens, and many times if you don’t like person one or two there is person three or four. While they probably won’t do anything in the election, at-least you don’t waste a vote.
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estesbob
Guest
Susan B. Anthony List’s Pro-Life Pledge
By Katrina Trinko global.nationalreview.com/images/icon_feed_twit_20p.jpg http://global.nationalreview.com/images/icon_e-mail_15x13.jpg
Tags: Herman Cain, Michele Bachmann, Mitt Romney, Newt Gingrich, Rick Santorum, Ron Paul, Tim Pawlenty
Susan B. Anthony List announced today that Michele Bachmann, Newt Gingrich, Tim Pawlenty, Rick Santorum and Ron Paul had signed their pro-life pledge.
The List also reported that Mitt Romney and Herman Cain refused to sign the pledge.
“Governor Romney pledged in the last campaign that he would be a pro-life president and of course he pledges it today,” Romney spokesman Andrea Saul told National Review Online in a statement. “However, this well intentioned effort has some potentially unforeseen consequences and he does not feel he could in good conscience sign it. Gov. Romney has been a strong supporter of the SBA List in the past and he looks forward to continue working with them to promote a culture of life.”
By Katrina Trinko global.nationalreview.com/images/icon_feed_twit_20p.jpg http://global.nationalreview.com/images/icon_e-mail_15x13.jpg
Tags: Herman Cain, Michele Bachmann, Mitt Romney, Newt Gingrich, Rick Santorum, Ron Paul, Tim Pawlenty
Susan B. Anthony List announced today that Michele Bachmann, Newt Gingrich, Tim Pawlenty, Rick Santorum and Ron Paul had signed their pro-life pledge.
The List also reported that Mitt Romney and Herman Cain refused to sign the pledge.
“Governor Romney pledged in the last campaign that he would be a pro-life president and of course he pledges it today,” Romney spokesman Andrea Saul told National Review Online in a statement. “However, this well intentioned effort has some potentially unforeseen consequences and he does not feel he could in good conscience sign it. Gov. Romney has been a strong supporter of the SBA List in the past and he looks forward to continue working with them to promote a culture of life.”
S
snowpea
Guest
How can you vote for and fund the campaign of a who is pro-abortion even if you are arent pro-abortion?I did indeed. I considered her overall to be the best qualified candidate to be President. That doesn’t say that I am** pro**-abortion.
If that doesn’t satify you about my motives for supporting her,
P.S. “Show me ONE post where I said that I am pro-abortion” still holds.
How do you settle that in your own conscience as a Catholic?
What issues would Hillary Clinton support that would trump the issue of taking a life?
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bellasbane
Guest
You have made these statements in the past, but never do you provide any supporting evidence to back up your claims. Please add some links to the sources of your statistics.
As for your one-size-fits-all approach, it does not sound much like what the full Conference of United States Bishops say should be the Catholic approach to ending abortion.
"We therefore call upon Catholics to commit themselves vigorously to the implementation of all three elements of the Pastoral Plan—an education and public information effort, pastoral care for pregnant women and their children, and a public policy program in defense of human life in all its stages, especially the unborn. Our long and short range public policy goals include: (1) constitutional protection for the right to life of unborn children to the maximum degree possible; (2) federal and state laws and administrative policies that restrict support for and the practice of abortion; (3) continual refinement and ultimate reversal of Supreme Court and other court decisions that deny the inalienable right to life; (4) supportive legislation to provide morally acceptable alternatives to abortion, and social policy initiatives which provide support to pregnant women for prenatal care and extended support for low-income women and their children. We urge public officials, especially Catholics, to advance these goals in recognition of their moral responsibility to protect the weak and defenseless among us.
Our concern about the national debate on the legal dimension of this vital issue should not distract us from the continuing need within our own community to educate, to form, to encourage people on life issues, most specifically, the right to life of the unborn. This right of the unborn to life demands legal protection and we will continue to insist on this. At the same time we recognize, as we rightfully engage in this debate, that we must hear the issues the struggles, and the anguish of women who face issues in a way that we never will. As we continue to teach clearly and forcefully the moral evil of abortion, we must also—as our Pastoral Plan suggests—speak to them a word of understanding and encouragement, a word of solidarity and support. Both in word and deed, we must inspire the entire community to help carry the burdens of all our sisters in need."
usccb.org/prolife/tdocs/resabort89.shtml
The Bishops understand this is a woman’s issue and a life issue. We must save women’s souls and babies lives. Failing to understand that this is a woman’s issue separates a woman from her unborn child - and what do you call that?
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RACJ
Guest
Today, this dilemma almost NEVER happens. Of those few Democrats who are ostensibly anti-slaughter of pre-born humans, only ONE voted against Obamacare, which enshrines abortion a health "care" *right*. Bob Casey Jr. of Pa. was totally on board with the Marxist nightmare right from the onset, despite touting himself as pro-life. I suppose that he reveres the miraculous life inside the womb, right until the moment the sharpened scalpel kills it. :eek: Palin/Rubio '12! Rob- Status