Who would be happy if every parish had to have a TLM Mass

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Freshman88 said:
Yup, wait until a generation of priests come about, the movement will be bigger.

But as for judging the current movement, your basing it on what again?

Some solid evidence you have there.
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All information I ever saw was posted on other forums for years - and it was all self reported.

The ‘source’ were self proclaimed Traditional Catholics, like yourself, who had claimed to know the numbers.

Now we have also supposedly had plenty of young “Traditional” priests in seminary since JPII issued his indult - surely they have been ordained and are out in the parishes.
 
Eilish_Maura said:
The ‘movement’ was supposedly in place and just waiting - now that they have what they supposedly wanted ???
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Yep, exactly.
I don’t understand how this can go from a horde just waiting to step up and take back what is ‘theirs’ to building up momentum.
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Either the initial large group was there or it was not.
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The horde has stepped up, but it is only a drop in the bucket of our Church all the same. However, it is building up momentum very quickly since SP, and what’s even better is that Catholics who were not part of the original horde are being exposed to the TLM and becoming part of the horde. That drop is now a ladle-full. It’s only a matter of time before it is the whole bucket.
If it was not then lots of folks were sold a bill of goods and maybe bishops who say there is no interest in their areas are telling the truth.
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Nah.
 
Eilish_Maura said:
The ‘movement’ was supposedly in place and just waiting - now that they have what they supposedly wanted ???

I don’t understand how this can go from a horde just waiting to step up and take back what is ‘theirs’ to building up momentum.

Either the initial large group was there or it was not.

If it was not then lots of folks were sold a bill of goods and maybe bishops who say there is no interest in their areas are telling the truth.
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There is more to tradition than just the Latin Mass. If the doctrines are not Catholic, all the smells and bells, Latin and lace, will mean nothing. No, it goes deeper that just appearances, it takes dedication and effort to practice our Catholic faith as it has always been practiced by countless faithful for two thousand years.

It amazes me that the modernists could undo it all in a mere forty years, leaving in their wake the majority of Catholics who are so poorly catechized and possessing such ignorance of their faith.
 
Eilish_Maura said:
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Now we have also supposedly had plenty of young “Traditional” priests in seminary since JPII issued his indult - surely they have been ordained and are out in the parishes.
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The FSSP was created in 1988 - it now has two seminaries with 115 seminarians and 194 active priests and is active in 50 diocese. It even has its own private school.

The ICRSS was created in 1990, it now has one seminary with 50 seminarians, and has 70 active priests. It also has its own community for nuns, as well as a mission in North Africa. I could find out how many oblates they have - but I know there is a sizable number of them, the house I visited had at least 5.

Not too shabby.
 
Richie_Nelson said:
And, the MP promotes this idea in what way? There are many “traditional” things about the catholic church that I really like. But I don’t see any reason to become belligerent over any of it. What gives? 🤷

thanks, Richie
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SP does not promote this idea. It is my own. And it’s not beligerence, it’s anger. Good anger, just like Jesus displayed when he threw the moneychangers out of the Temple. The traditions, practices, grandeur and most importantly, the teachings of the Church are being restored, slowly, through the good fruits of the TLM.
 
piouswoman said:
There is more to tradition than just the Latin Mass. If the doctrines are not Catholic, all the smells and bells, Latin and lace, will mean nothing. No, it goes deeper that just appearances, it takes dedication and effort to practice our Catholic faith as it has always been practiced by countless faithful for two thousand years.

It amazes me that the modernists could undo it all in a mere forty years, leaving in their wake the majority of Catholics who are so poorly catechized and possessing such ignorance of their faith.
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But you seem to base your idea that all current day catholics are unfaithful dufusses on the “new mass”, from reading most of your other posts.

Do you blame all the changes in society on the new mass? What about all the liberal judges and crazy laws that won’t allow even a prayer at a high school football game. Is that the fault of the church too?

thanks, Richie
 
laudamus_te said:
SP does not promote this idea. It is my own. And it’s not beligerence, it’s anger. Good anger, just like Jesus displayed when he threw the moneychangers out of the Temple. The traditions, practices, grandeur and most importantly, the teachings of the Church are being restored, slowly, through the good fruits of the TLM.
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But how does ‘promoting’ more latin masses change the teaching of the church? Sorry, I don’t understand.

thanks, Richie
 
I would love to have the TLM more accessible to me, but to the extent that every parish would have at least one a week? I don’t think that’s the correct response. Perhaps having one per “area” (we have pastoral regions here…I don’t know if other areas have them) would be enough.

True, I think the basis of bringing people back to the faith would be to have something uniquely Catholic (as opposed to wishy-washy Protestant-like liberalism) for them to hold onto…but the TLM won’t really solve that problem.
 
Richie_Nelson said:
But you seem to base your idea that all current day catholics are unfaithful dufusses on the “new mass”, from reading most of your other posts.

Do you blame all the changes in society on the new mass? What about all the liberal judges and crazy laws that won’t allow even a prayer at a high school football game. Is that the fault of the church too?

thanks, Richie
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Yes, I do, and in reality, it is the fault of the Church.

After Vatican II the church stopped teaching the way it had always taught. They wanted to embrace the modern world, change with the times…Well, the Catholic church never changes, because the truth doesn’t change…

As long as the church continues to teach errors such as separation of church and state, ecumenism, and salvation in any faith with no need to convert, then society will continue to degenerate.

Christ is King. A country that takes God out of His rightful place, will fail.
 
piouswoman said:
Yes, I do, and in reality, it is the fault of the Church.

After Vatican II the church stopped teaching the way it had always taught. They wanted to embrace the modern world, change with the times…Well, the Catholic church never changes, because the truth doesn’t change…

As long as the church continues to teach errors such as separation of church and state, ecumenism, and salvation in any faith with no need to convert, then society will continue to degenerate.

Christ is King. A country that takes God out of His rightful place, will fail.
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Ok, but YOU say “A COUNTRY that takes God out of his place”…what does this have to do with the church?
 
Richie_Nelson said:
But how does ‘promoting’ more latin masses change the teaching of the church? Sorry, I don’t understand.

thanks, Richie
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The NO has ushered in abuses which have led to errors (ecumenism - has led to Protestants receiving Communion; Communion in the hand - has led to loss of faith in the Real Presence; girl altar-boys - has led to girls wanting to become priests; EEHCs - has also led to loss of faith in the Real Presence and a diminishing of the role of the Priest; etc.). The TLM does not allow for these things.
 
laudamus_te said:
girl altar-boys - has led to girls wanting to become priests
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Hmm - not sure girls wanting to be priests was ushered in by having girls as altar servers - one saint hoped to die by a certain age to be able to do in Heaven what she would never be allowed to do on Earth.
 
Eilish_Maura said:
Hmm - not sure girls wanting to be priests was ushered in by having girls as altar servers - one saint hoped to die by a certain age to be able to do in Heaven what she would never be allowed to do on Earth.
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Meaning? Please explain.
 
I was once told that the only things that don’t change are dead.

The Catholic Church has changed many times over the centuries. It just changes so slowly that some people think it has never changed. i am certain the first and second century Christians would not recognize a lot of what happens in our Eucharistic services - NO or TLM.

I like worshipping in the language I understand. Some people seem to like being secretive and set apart - they must be “special.”

Why can’t we have rubrics that fit the needs of different kinds of people. Oh, I forgot. It must be right or wrong - not just different.

So sad.
 
Dbdurand said:
I was once told that the only things that don’t change are dead.

The Catholic Church has changed many times over the centuries. It just changes so slowly that some people think it has never changed. i am certain the first and second century Christians would not recognize a lot of what happens in our Eucharistic services - NO or TLM.

I like worshipping in the language I understand. Some people seem to like being secretive and set apart - they must be “special.”

Why can’t we have rubrics that fit the needs of different kinds of people. Oh, I forgot. It must be right or wrong - not just different.

So sad.
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Not in its DOCTRINE. The TRUTH cannot change…does it follow that TRUTH is dead? No, of course it does not.

Latin is the language of the church. Before the vernacular was introduced, one could go to ANY Catholic Church, in ANY country and the Holy Mass would be the same, he would feel at home and understand the Mass regardless of what country he would be in. That, sadly is not the case today.
 
piouswoman said:
As long as the church continues to teach errors such as separation of church and state, ecumenism, and salvation in any faith with no need to convert, then society will continue to degenerate.
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I saw that “salvation in any faith with no need to convert” and got a little concerned. Did the Church teach that only Catholics received salvation? I have friends who have very strong faiths, but they’re Baptists and other forms of Protestantism. While I don’t always agree with their views, they’re much stronger in their faith than many Catholics I know. I rest assured knowing that I don’t have to convert them for them to get to Heaven. Sure, they’ll have to go through a time in Purgatory that they may not expect, being non-Catholics, but how could our Church ever teach that? It seems so…close-minded.
 
Latin is the language of the church. Before the vernacular was introduced, one could go to ANY Catholic Church, in ANY country and the Holy Mass would be the same, he would feel at home and understand the Mass regardless of what country he would be in. That, sadly is not the case today.

Believe it or not, once upon a time Latin was the vernacular of the people attending Mass.
 
ApologeticsGirl said:
I saw that “salvation in any faith with no need to convert” and got a little concerned. Did the Church teach that only Catholics received salvation? I have friends who have very strong faiths, but they’re Baptists and other forms of Protestantism. While I don’t always agree with their views, they’re much stronger in their faith than many Catholics I know. I rest assured knowing that I don’t have to convert them for them to get to Heaven. Sure, they’ll have to go through a time in Purgatory that they may not expect, being non-Catholics, but how could our Church ever teach that? It seems so…close-minded.
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When we say “Outside the Church there is no salvation”, we mean that those who through their own grave fault do not know that the Catholic Church is the true Church, or knowing it, refuse to join it, cannot be saved.

They who remain outside of the Catholic Church through no grave fault of their own, and do not know it is the true Church, can be saved by making use of the graces which God gives them.

The above is from “My Catholic Faith”.
 
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