Who would be happy if every parish had to have a TLM Mass

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Eilish_Maura said:
Are you going to produce verifyable documentation on that?

Or any other locks that I am personally responsible for?
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Just curious EM… do you always rely on some version of

“Are you going to produce verifyable documentation on that?”

for a response. Wouldn’t it be easier to just type “…prove it…” ?
 
Eilish_Maura said:
How specific - can you come up with clear cut items or more vague terminology?

Plenty of things in museums and libraries have a ‘pride of place’ (as opposed to put in the basement).
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How much more specific do I need to be? OK, I will suggest you start by reading Pope St. Pius X’s motu proprio Tra Le Solicitudini; then read Pope Pius XI’s Apostolic Letter Divini Cultus and Pope Pius XII’s Mediator Dei. These all deal with the importance of active participation of the congregation by the singing of Gregorian Chant. Finally you may finish up by reading specifically paragraph 14 of Vatican II’s Sacrosanctum Concilium, and I quote:
“The Church acknowledges Gregorian Chant as specially suited to the Roman Liturgy. Therefore, other things being equal, it should be given pride of place in liturgical services.”
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Eilish_Maura said:
How do you know that it doesn’t please God?
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Well as a Catholic I shouldn’t interpret what God wants. That’s a Protestant theology. I believe in what the magesterium teaches me. And that is that Gregorian Chant has pride of place. Not contemporary Christian music.
 
bkovacs said:
Well as a Catholic I shouldn’t interpret what God wants. That’s a Protestant theology. I believe in what the magesterium teaches me. And that is that Gregorian Chant has pride of place. Not contemporary Christian music.
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So are you going to correct the folks claiming that those things are not pleasing to God?
 
laudamus_te said:
How much more specific do I need to be? OK, I will suggest you start by reading Pope St. Pius X’s motu proprio Tra Le Solicitudini; then read Pope Pius XI’s Apostolic Letter Divini Cultus and Pope Pius XII’s Mediator Dei. These all deal with the importance of active participation of the congregation by the singing of Gregorian Chant. Finally you may finish up by reading specifically paragraph 14 of Vatican II’s Sacrosanctum Concilium, and I quote:
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I wonder if you truly understand what is vague and what is specific.

Without concrete terminology pride of place is a nice nice term that can cover a whole range of behavior. Repeating the phrase over and over does not make a vague term less vague.
 
MrS said:
Just curious EM… do you always rely on some version of

“Are you going to produce verifyable documentation on that?”

for a response. Wouldn’t it be easier to just type “…prove it…” ?
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Taught by some of the ‘best’ here - gotta be able to go back and look it up - leave out verifiable and you get all kinds of stuff.
 
Eilish_Maura said:
So are you going to correct the folks claiming that those things are not pleasing to God?
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That will be Rome’s job in the future. Not mine!. They won’t believe a traditional Catholic. We died after Vatican 2, as most of them will think.
 
Eilish_Maura said:
Guess it is the same crystal ball that lets you both know what God thinks of it.
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You are adept with the snappy one-liners, comebacks which cover your ignorance. You seem to have a pathetic understanding of the traditions of the Catholic Church. It has been acknowledged by our Church Fathers for hundreds of years that Gregorian Chant is THE definitive form of music which gives the greatest praise to God.
 
elt1956 said:
I think all sarcasm, unless directed at self, is rude.
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Doubting myself, I turned to SarcasmSociety.com to see if perhaps you are correct that all sarcasm is rude. While there were a number of very biting examples, there were also statements like

Ogden Nash: “The trouble with a kitten is that it eventually becomes a cat.”

Woody Allen: “As the poet said, ‘Only God can make a tree’ – probably because it’s so hard to figure out how to get the bark on.”

Hard to see why the use of such sarcasm would automatically be offensive.
 
Eilish_Maura said:
I wonder if you truly understand what is vague and what is specific.

Without concrete terminology pride of place is a nice nice term that can cover a whole range of behavior. Repeating the phrase over and over does not make a vague term less vague.
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Is that what liberal Catholics think!. Pride of place doesn’t mean that you just throw it on the shelf and give pride of place to something else.
 
Eilish_Maura said:
I wonder if you truly understand what is vague and what is specific.

Without concrete terminology pride of place is a nice nice term that can cover a whole range of behavior. Repeating the phrase over and over does not make a vague term less vague.
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Pray tell, what exactly is vague about “pride of place?” Oh, or are you referring to the fact that the documents of Vatican II are vague and ambiguous and hence subject to misinterpretation? In that case, I agree with you completely.
 
bkovacs said:
Definition of “Pride of Place”
answers.com/topic/pride-of-place
“The highest or most important position”
Now do you understand it EM?

Highest position to Gregorian Chant music. Not contemporary music.
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EM will never understand it properly, because she has revealed herself as a modernist. It is common knowledge that Gregorian Chant was defined as the proper liturgical music by Vatican II, and not Protestant hymns. So, who is being disobedient?
 
bkovacs said:
That’s because they like the way the Protestants do things!.. As well as their “that’s what I feel theology”.
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FYI, this is also a problem among some traditionalists. I have seen many times the argument made that the TLM feels more reverent, as if the atmosphere of the Mass affects the presence of Christ.
 
MrS said:
countdown to mod intervention.

EM, you are about to chalk up another one… locking a thread that is.👍
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Maybe, but this is at least somewhat on topic. The name-calling is a little unnecessary, though.
 
pnewton said:
FYI, this is also a problem among some traditionalists. I have seen many times the argument made that the TLM feels more reverent, as if the atmosphere of the Mass affects the presence of Christ.
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It doesn’t “feel” more reverent…it IS more reverent. How it “feels” is an expression used by many today and illustrates how* soaked in modernism* has become the mind of man. It is an expression that is so subjective, so man-centered, so Vatican II, and so not at all important in the grand scheme of things!
 
piouswoman said:
It doesn’t “feel” more reverent…it IS more reverent. How it “feels” is an expression used by many today and illustrates how* soaked in modernism* has become the mind of man. It is an expression that is so subjective, so man-centered, so Vatican II, and so not at all important in the grand scheme of things!
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Apparently God accepts and appreciates many different kinds of adoration. The Ark of the Covenant was central to early Jewish religion as the Mass is today to us. Why S/He would be so particular as to choose one kind of Mass or adoration over the other in today’s world is beyond me. Or is it US and what WE think is the one and only way???

The First Book Of Paralipomenon

Chapter 15 verses 25 through 33…
28. And ALL ISRAEL brought the ark of the covenant of the Lord with JOYFUL SHOUTING , and SOUNDING WITH THE SOUND OF THE CORONET AND WITH TRUMPETS AND CYMBALS AND PSALTERIES AND WITH HARPS.
  1. And when the ark of the covenant of the Lord was come to the city of David, Michol the daughter of Saul looking out at a window, saw king David DANCING AND PLAYING, and she DESPISED him in her heart.
Maybe Michol had her own ideas of how God would like to be adored??? 🙂 Peace.
 
piouswoman said:
Thats easy… because it is pleasing to Protestants!
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:tsktsk: We talk as though Protestants are the enemy instead of brothers and sisters in the eyes of God. Do you really think God turns anyone away who truly believes in their own religion? I believe in a more understanding, loving God. 👍 . :love: Peace.
 
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