Who would be happy if every parish had to have a TLM Mass

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elt1956 said:
Believe it or not, once upon a time Latin was the vernacular of the people attending Mass.
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Dear Woman, I think 2000 years is a bit tooooo far back. šŸ˜ƒ Peace.

Dear Whoever you are,

I donā€™t. And for you to state that, you may as well say you are in disagreement with all of the popes, bishops, saints, martyrs, and doctors of the church for two thousand years. An interesting position to take, as it puts you in a group that disagrees with their own Catholic faith.
 
elt1956 said:
Dear Woman. Who suppressed it? All I know is, I went to Church one Sunday after Vatican II and we no longer had TLM. I assumed, wrongly it appears, that this had been mandated by the Vatican. What is the story behind this? Thanks. šŸ™‚ Peace
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Dear Whoever you are,

Who suppressed it? The modernist popes, bishops and priests after the crucial turning point of Vatican II.
 
elt1956 said:
Dear Woman. Is this the fault of OUR CHURCH, or the fault of ā€œfaultyā€ interpretation by members? As far as I can see, the Catholic Catechism hasnā€™t changed, nor the dogmas and doctrines of the Roman Catholic Church that were in place before Vatican II. Explain please. Thanks. šŸ™‚ Peace.
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Dear Whoever you are,

It is the fault of OUR CHURCH HIERARCHY. Were you not aware that they changed the catechism too? See here:

ā€œSome Traditionalist Catholics argue that statements made in CCC conflict with past Catholic teachings on many topics, and that it is infected with Gnosticism, promotes the theory of evolution, exonerates the Jewish people and presents them as still in a covenantal relationship with God,[4] favours indifferentism (the heresy that religions are equal), false ecumenism (cooperation with non-Catholic Christians), secular collaboration and compromise, homosexuality and internationalism.ā€

Thank you JPII, for the confusion and misdirection of countless Catholics worldwide, at the expense of their faith.
 
elt1956 said:
Believe it or not, once upon a time Latin was the vernacular of the people attending Mass.
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AND believe it or not, so was Aramaic and Hebrew. Peace.

Wow, how confusingā€¦that is why so early on, they chose Latin as the ecclesiastical language for the universal church. It proved itself for thousands of years until some modernists had an itching to change it all. And just look at the disastrous results! The church has since lost its identity.
 
piouswoman said:
Dear Whoever you are,

It is the fault of OUR CHURCH HIERARCHY. Were you not aware that they changed the catechism too? See here:

ā€œSome Traditionalist Catholics argue that statements made in CCC conflict with past Catholic teachings on many topics, and that it is infected with Gnosticism, promotes the theory of evolution, exonerates the Jewish people and presents them as still in a covenantal relationship with God,[4] favours indifferentism (the heresy that religions are equal), false ecumenism (cooperation with non-Catholic Christians), secular collaboration and compromise, homosexuality and internationalism.ā€

Thank you JPII, for the confusion and misdirection of countless Catholics worldwide, at the expense of their faith.
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Iā€™m not sure what this has to do with the TLM.

Wow! I had not read that qote before and went looking for it. You did not identify your quote as coming from the Wikipedia website about the Catechism of the Catholic Church. i did not realize that ā€œtraditionalistā€ Catholics carried around what sounds like angry accusations. Do you have high blood pressure?

I certainly am glad that the Catholic Church has recognized that the Jews as a group are not responsible for the death of Jesus. If God goes back on his covenants we are all in trouble.

I am glad that it is possible to work with my fellow Christians and my Jewish neighbors to help people who are homeless and in need.

I am glad that the church recognizes that science (evolution) is not religion.

I donā€™t get the reference to Gnosticism.

The catechism and other recent church documents uphold the primacy of the Catholic Church as the fullness of the church founded by Christ. All churches are not equal.

Sorry - I had to respond. But i think this discussion probably belongs on a different thread.
 
piouswoman said:
Wow, how confusingā€¦that is why so early on, they chose Latin as the ecclesiastical language for the universal churchā€¦
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The universal language for the Church at the time. This was an easy decision since the Roman Empire had spread it to Christian Western World. Of course it was never universal in the sense it was used in every Mass, because other Rites have existed from the begining beside the Latin Rite.
Thank you JPII, for the confusion and misdirection of countless Catholics worldwide, at the expense of their faith
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It is bad enough that you have not the fiber and integrity to follow the rules here and stay on topic. but rather continue with your single minded agenda. Worse, you have to steal this thread to slander JPII. Perhaps instead of assuming you know better than he did, you could follow his example of humble service. He, at least never styled himself as piousman.
 
Dbdurand said:
Iā€™m not sure what this has to do with the TLM.

Wow! I had not read that qote before and went looking for it. You did not identify your quote as coming from the Wikipedia website about the Catechism of the Catholic Church. i did not realize that ā€œtraditionalistā€ Catholics carried around what sounds like angry accusations. Do you have high blood pressure?

I certainly am glad that the Catholic Church has recognized that the Jews as a group are not responsible for the death of Jesus. If God goes back on his covenants we are all in trouble.

I am glad that it is possible to work with my fellow Christians and my Jewish neighbors to help people who are homeless and in need.

I am glad that the church recognizes that science (evolution) is not religion.

I donā€™t get the reference to Gnosticism.

The catechism and other recent church documents uphold the primacy of the Catholic Church as the fullness of the church founded by Christ. All churches are not equal.

Sorry - I had to respond. But i think this discussion probably belongs on a different thread.
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I love the way people who canā€™t handle the truth have to ask silly and impertinent questionsā€¦so here is my answer:

No, not angry. I simply follow the true doctrines of our faith as have popes, bishops, martyrs, saints, and doctors of the church for almost two thousand years. How are you going to square your argument with that? It isnā€™t hard for me to adhere to my faith, but evidently, it is for countless modern Catholics who have been led astray so shamelessly by modernist bishops and popes.
 
pnewton said:
The universal language for the Church at the time. This was an easy decision since the Roman Empire had spread it to Christian Western World. Of course it was never universal in the sense it was used in every Mass, because other Rites have existed from the begining beside the Latin Rite.
It is bad enough that you have not the fiber and integrity to follow the rules here and stay on topic. but rather continue with your single minded agenda. Worse, you have to steal this thread to slander JPII. Perhaps instead of assuming you know better than he did, you could follow his example of humble service. He, at least never styled himself as piousman.
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It would help if you would understand that it is not ***I ***who may of strayed from the topic. I am merely answering the barrage of insulting questions that have been fired at me.

And by the way, since the topic refers to the Tridentine Latin Mass, why not stay on topic?
 
piouswoman said:
ā€¦by the way, since the topic refers to the Tridentine Latin Mass, why not stay on topic?
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I think there is something in Tradition that forbids that.
(You might be able to refute that by citing a council, but it would be hard to do it by citing a thread longer than 20 posts on CAF! ;))

Just for the record, the little parishes are happy to get a priest to say one Mass for them on Sunday, and it is not unusual that they have to share a priest past retirement age with some other little parish (or parishes, bless those heroes) in order to get one. If they had to learn Latin, theyā€™d do that. If they canā€™t get a TLM, they live with it. They do not have the luxury of being so picky. As they say, hunger is the best sauce.

Let us not even start with what Catholics in truly oppressive places like Saudi Arabia, the ones who literally risk their lives to hear a Mass, might have to say about this thread.
 
I change my mind. If a parish doesnā€™t want to have a TLM, then they shouldnā€™t be forced to, because they would probably mess with it anyway. Better to keep the TLM safe from abuses, even if it means some people wonā€™t have access to it. Including me šŸ˜›
 
Miles_Mariae said:
Isnā€™t it also binding that government officials who support abortion are to be denied Communion?
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Yeah, but try telling that to the modernist bishops and priests.
Miles_Mariae said:
I change my mind. If a parish doesnā€™t want to have a TLM, then they shouldnā€™t be forced to, because they would probably mess with it anyway. Better to keep the TLM safe from abuses, even if it means some people wonā€™t have access to it. Including me
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Iā€™m with you on this, which is why I initially said on this thread that I would be happy if the TLM was the only Mass that every parish had.
 
piouswoman said:
AND believe it or not, so was Aramaic and Hebrew. Peace.
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Wow, how confusingā€¦that is why so early on, they chose Latin as the ecclesiastical language for the universal church. It proved itself for thousands of years until some modernists had an itching to change it all. And just look at the disastrous results! The church has since lost its identity.

What I am saying and hopefully you can admit this, is that Christ and His disciples certainly didnā€™t say ā€œMassā€ as we call it today, in Latin. Surely they celebrated it in their native tongue. You need to reach a bit out of the box you are in to see beyond your own ideas and dogmatic beliefs. šŸ‘ Peace.
 
piouswoman said:
AND believe it or not, so was Aramaic and Hebrew. Peace.
Click to expand...
Wow, how confusingā€¦that is why so early on, they chose Latin as the ecclesiastical language for the universal church. It proved itself for thousands of years until some modernists had an itching to change it all. And just look at the disastrous results! The church has since lost its identity.
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elt1956:
Could it be it is your own identity you have lost?:rolleyes:
Wow, how confusingā€¦that is why so early on, they chose Latin as the ecclesiastical language for the universal church. It proved itself for thousands of years until some modernists had an itching to change it all. And just look at the disastrous results! The church has since lost its identity.

What I am saying and hopefully you can admit this, is that Christ and His disciples certainly didnā€™t say ā€œMassā€ as we call it today, in Latin. Surely they celebrated it in their native tongue. You need to reach a bit out of the box you are in to see beyond your own ideas and dogmatic beliefs. šŸ‘ Peace.
 
piouswoman said:
I love the way people who canā€™t handle the truth have to ask silly and impertinent questionsā€¦so here is my answer:

No, not angry. I simply follow the true doctrines of our faith as have popes, bishops, martyrs, saints, and doctors of the church for almost two thousand years. How are you going to square your argument with that? It isnā€™t hard for me to adhere to my faith, but evidently, it is for countless modern Catholics who have been led astray so shamelessly by modernist bishops and popes.
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Dear piouswoman. How did you decide to use piouswoman as a means of identifiction on CAF? It doesnā€™t seem to fit. From Wikipedia the definition of Piety is.

A common element in most conceptions of piety is HUMILITY.Humility is the defining characteristic of an UNPRETENTIOUS and MODEST person, someone who does not think that he or she is BETTER or more important than others

Because you stir my anger, In My Own Human Frailty I Would also like to add Saint Paulā€™s Epistle to the Corinthians (l Cor 12:31, 13:1-8a) Strive eagerly for the greatest spiritual gifts. And I shall show you a still more excellent way.
If I speak in human and angelic tongues but do not have love, I am a resounding gong or a clashing cymbal.And if I have the gift of prophecy and comprehend all mysteries and all knowledge; if I have all faith so as to move mountains but do not have love, I am nothing.If I give away everything I own, and if I hand my body over so that I may boast but do not have love, I gain nothing.Love is patient, love is kind.It is not jealous, love is not pompous, it is not inflated, it is not rude, it does not seek its own interests, it is not quick-tempered, it does not brood over injury, it does not rejoice over wrongdoing but rejoices with the truth.It bears all things, believes all things, hopes all things, endures all things.
Love never fails.
The Word of the Lord

And then you have the nerve to criticize those you call Modernist Popes and Bishops? Maybe Bishops, but Popes? Just how great do you think you are?
 
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