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holdencaulfield
Guest
The “creativity” that is usually used in the NO is another word for heresy.
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holdencaulfield
Guest
Where does Vatican II state that?
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holdencaulfield
Guest
I am lucky to have a FSSP parish 20 min from my house, however I have yet to see whether I prefer that or the Byzantine parish by my house.
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wraithx
Guest
“In Masses which are celebrated with the people, a suitable place may be allotted to their mother tongue. This is to apply in the first place, to the readings and to the Common Prayer. But also as local conditions may warrant, to those parts which pertain to the people. Nevertheless steps should be taken so that the faithful may also be able to say or to sing together in Latin those parts of the Ordinary of the Mass” Paragraph 54
“The Church acknowledges Gregorian Chant as specially suited to the Roman Liturgy. Therefore, other things being equal, it should be given pride of place in liturgical services.” Paragraph 114
Both quotes are from Sacrosanctum Concilium. You may find this article by Father Fessio interesting:
catholiceducation.org/articles/religion/re0540.html
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Ann_Stanton
Guest
I have no problems with a TLM Mass, but many of the parishoners do not know Latin and many don’t know English. How about letting the parish family decide on the language to be used?
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alessandro
Guest
I voted “no” for one reason alone: I imagined the priests at the ultra-liberal parish near my house trying to do it and realized what a mockery they would make of it. (They already invent so many things for the Novus Ordo Mass…)
What we should focus on is that all seminarians receive the proper training to be able to celebrate the Extraordinary Form of the Mass with austerity and respect for tradition.
What we should focus on is that all seminarians receive the proper training to be able to celebrate the Extraordinary Form of the Mass with austerity and respect for tradition.
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Auntie_M
Guest
I am a convert of 5 years now. All I have ever known is the “new mass”. I love it. As an X-protestant, I can appreciate what the Catholic Church Teaches maybe a little better than a “cradle catholic” since you all have heard it all your lives. I have gone to a few TLMs and quite frankly was never so bored in all my life. I did not think it so beautiful. I do not go the church to behold a “beautiful service”. I go to worship Jesus, and that is definitely what is going even in the NO. I am afraid that the “outer shell” is getting more attention than the one being worshiped. I also have found that most Catholics who grew up with the latin mass, really don’t know the faith very well. As an x-protestant, I have seen Catholics who could not explain their faith or even answer a few simple questions about it. Maybe because they never knew it to begin with, maybe because they didn’t speak Latin? Not knowing what is being said is not glorifiying our Lord. In the Bible, when the apostles spoke to the crowd and each one heard in “their own tongue”. IN THEIR OWN language.
Wonder why our Lord allowed this to happen,…shouldn’t it have been in Latin? (sorry being sarcastic) Just think about that for awhile. And really ask yourself, do I want to see a “pretty” show, or do I want to worship my Lord. Anyone can worship anywhere at anytime, our Lord is NOT just in a service, He’s with us always.
Peace be with you all
Wonder why our Lord allowed this to happen,…shouldn’t it have been in Latin? (sorry being sarcastic) Just think about that for awhile. And really ask yourself, do I want to see a “pretty” show, or do I want to worship my Lord. Anyone can worship anywhere at anytime, our Lord is NOT just in a service, He’s with us always.
Peace be with you all
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HOPEFUL_IN_UK
Guest
Oh, never mind.
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Auntie_M
Guest
I am very sorry you feel our Lord has “lied”. Since HE said the gates of Hell would not prevail. My Catholic Church is still right where it always has been. In Rome, where the chair of Peter is and our Pope. If you don’t want “moderism” then we should not even be inside a building. Jesus taught on mountain sides, valleys, where ever He went, he taught the good news. And Jesus never spoke Latin. But if you NEED all the “show” to feel His presence, then maybe it isn’t the “moderism” that you talk about, maybe it’s just that you need to go to your closet and pray in secret.
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I_Believe
Guest
That’s golden !
Welcome to the Forum and thank you for such a wonderful review of HMC’s Sacred Liturgy. Timely as well. Just in time to fill the three six slot !
BTW, ever been fishin ? My grandpa used to take me fishin and he always said that casting and using bobbers wasn’t the best way to catch fish. He said trolling catches the big ones.
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Jimsdun
Guest
Auntie M, it is a matter of perspective and experience. I converted in 1997 and have never experienced a TLM. The only Latin Masses were at SSPX parishes, and those were verboten.
My original parish celebrated the NO mass with a lot of reverence and respect for the LORD. I had no interest in a TLM because I didn’t think there was any need for any. . .
Then I got married and moved to a different parish. This parish was one of those new-fangled church building built in the 1980s and looked more like a lecture hall than a church. There was not even a tabernacle. In addition to that, the parishioners have no reverence for the LORD. They show up at mass as if they are at a beach party. Yes, this was a Catholic parish and not some quasi-Baptist superchurch, even though it looked and felt more like the latter. If I had known I would end up in a parish like this, I might never have converted. I also realized that this sort of parish would not exist if it weren’t for the abuses the “spirit of Vatican 2” I have no objection to V2 itself, only with the abuses by some parishes that took V2 and ran with it, thinking that V2 was a license to do whatever they want
I had come to the conclusion that if there were more TLM masses, this kind of abuse would never have happened.
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RuthanneB12
Guest
No, every parish should not have a TLM Mass; every diocese, yes. Most parish priests are overworked as it is and all the ones I know age 60 and under, don’t know Latin. The Mass in the vernacular is far more understandable for each country and community. I’m 66 years old and I remember the Latin, but it was on its way out when I was in college. Personally, I love it, but having the Mass in Latin doesn’t make the sacrifice any more real. Most people are looking for a “feel good” experience and they think Latin will fix it. What needs fixing is one thing " let the same attitude be in you that is in Christ Jesus." Latin won’t change your heart.
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Newbie2
Guest
I have to agree, and say that I’m a bit surprised by the poll results. My guess is that if the question were worded differently, the results may be different, and that many of those who voted “yes” assumed that the resources for TLM would be available for every parish.
Sadly or not, that isn’t the case. I wonder how many who feel that a TLM for every parish should be mandated would change their minds if it resulted in (and it no doubt would) many priests fumbling and stumbling with the Latin.
If the resources were available, fine, but that simply ain’t reality.
Sadly or not, that isn’t the case. I wonder how many who feel that a TLM for every parish should be mandated would change their minds if it resulted in (and it no doubt would) many priests fumbling and stumbling with the Latin.
If the resources were available, fine, but that simply ain’t reality.
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agr4028
Guest
I also read quite frequently, as to how traditional Catholics would pray the rosary, etc., during Mass.
I don’t understand this. If the TLM is so superior, why were people engaged in other activities during Mass? This makes no sense.
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Auntie_M
Guest
Very Very well said, RuthanneB. I am soo proud of your statement. Nothing will change our “hearts” except God. The Bible teaches not to judge others, yet most TLM enthusiast talk of the way “other people” dress, act, how irreverent, etc. (Matthew 7:1-5; …why do you notice the splinter in your brother’s eye but do not percieve the wooden beam in your own eyes. ) We are not here to judge how others dress, or how “reverent” they are, or how one language is “better” than the other, more “reverent”. You all are being the judge and jury. Instead of LOOKING for something in a church to criticize, try to focus more on why YOU are there. And it won’t matter what the church looks like, how the priest talks, how the people are dressed, etc. Because Jesus doesn’t worry about those things, they are just “things”
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MrS
Guest
And it is just that poor attitude toward any effort for reverence that promotes more socializing, more happy-clappy, more casual/immodest dressing, … IMHO you are dumbing down the liturgy of the Mass to a level of banal nothingness…and then claiming Jesus doesn’t worry about those things.
What you get is the fruits of your tree…a diminishing reverence for the Real Presence… a falling away to protestant denominations… and an encouragement for the clergy to do nothing because people like you (not Jesus)don’t care anyway.
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agr4028
Guest
But are all of your above observations of “dumbing down” based on the Mass and the Church itself, or are we overlooking other societal influences for the sake of promoting the TLM?And it is just that poor attitude toward any effort for reverence that promotes more socializing, more happy-clappy, more casual/immodest dressing, … IMHO you are dumbing down the liturgy of the Mass to a level of banal nothingness…and then claiming Jesus doesn’t worry about those things.
What you get is the fruits of your tree…a diminishing reverence for the Real Presence… a falling away to protestant denominations… and an encouragement for the clergy to do nothing because people like you (not Jesus)don’t care anyway.
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dmichelle672
Guest
Although I did answer “yes” to this poll, I had a tough time with the “required to have” phrase. Maybe if at least ONE parish in each city/town would have a Latin Mass, that would be great. I think the closest one to me right now is about an hour away 
I’m looking forward to the chance to make it there!
Bless~
Dawn
I’m looking forward to the chance to make it there!
Bless~
Dawn
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Marvin_Schmidt
Guest
I knew a brilliant Irish Priest who immigrated to America. He was invited to an American football game, and quite frankly was bored to tears. It meant nothing to him. He had not bothered to learn the game, so it meant nothing to him.
Ask him about Soccer, and his eyes would light up. He knew the game, the teams, and the special players. In that arena he was delighted.
So it is with the TLMs and the NOs. People who know one intimately and not the other are bored when attending “the other” Mass.
The discussion on this thread is wonderful. The people who have taught me the most are those passionate about their likes and dislikes.
HOWEVER, I think everybody (me, included) needs to remember that the most important part of the Mass is the blessing of the bread and wine - the Transsubstantion of bread and wine to the body, blood, soul and divinity of Christ, our Lord. All the remainder of the Mass was added by well meaning (and by some egotistical ) men.
Either way, first follow the ruberics, as closely as possible.
Dress appropriately - you’re going to meet GOD. I know, I know, God doesn’t “see” our clothes. But, whether you want to admit it or not, how you are dressed has a strong effect on how you feel. Shorts and tee shirts just are not appropriate at Mass.
Leave the World outside the Church and immerse yourself in the Glory of the presence of our Lord.
Everything else is unimportant.
Thanks for the wonderful discussion. “Discussion” or “dialogue” is for open minds. Monologue or debate is for closed minds.
Marv
Ask him about Soccer, and his eyes would light up. He knew the game, the teams, and the special players. In that arena he was delighted.
So it is with the TLMs and the NOs. People who know one intimately and not the other are bored when attending “the other” Mass.
The discussion on this thread is wonderful. The people who have taught me the most are those passionate about their likes and dislikes.
HOWEVER, I think everybody (me, included) needs to remember that the most important part of the Mass is the blessing of the bread and wine - the Transsubstantion of bread and wine to the body, blood, soul and divinity of Christ, our Lord. All the remainder of the Mass was added by well meaning (and by some egotistical ) men.
Either way, first follow the ruberics, as closely as possible.
Dress appropriately - you’re going to meet GOD. I know, I know, God doesn’t “see” our clothes. But, whether you want to admit it or not, how you are dressed has a strong effect on how you feel. Shorts and tee shirts just are not appropriate at Mass.
Leave the World outside the Church and immerse yourself in the Glory of the presence of our Lord.
Everything else is unimportant.
Thanks for the wonderful discussion. “Discussion” or “dialogue” is for open minds. Monologue or debate is for closed minds.
Marv
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steboyz
Guest
Unfortunately my parish will not have aTLM because our bishop has said that our diocese has two latin masses and that will be enough.Two bad every year our parish has a diocesan appeal looking for money.
Ger
Ger
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