Who's Going to Pay the Bills?: Purpose-Driven Coronavirus Business Shutdowns Cause Economic Catastrophe

  • Thread starter Thread starter 1cthlctrth
  • Start date Start date
Status
Not open for further replies.
My condolences to you and your family, Freddy.
Prayers offered for the repose of the soul of your wife’s mother.
jt
 
1cthlctrth said:
Condolences to you and your family. It’s good to read that your wife is able to accept things a little bit, tough as it is.

Switching gears entirely, I’m curious to know whether you, as an outsider, find it more than a little odd that the leftist media adores the rioters and protesters, but treats others with contempt.
Click to expand...
Thanks for your thoughts.

And yes, we’re experiencing protests in Australia as well. Some have been declared as being illegal because of regulations regarding the virus and some have been cancelled by those who were going to protest. Those that went ahead risked being arrested and some have been.

But I think the majority do not see this in terms of ‘If they are doing it then why can’t I?’ And the protest seem to be reported in an accurate and unbiased way. There is a tendency to show the protesters as being genuine in what they are doing but irresponsible in going it now.

If the situation was normal then I think I might have taken the time to join one of the protest marches myself. But I definitely don’t agree with damaging public property ‘for the cause’. Though it has made people think about things like statues honouring people from the past in a more considered fashion. There are aspects of some of those people that I wasn’t aware of previously and now make me wonder if there should be a statue celebrating a life that turned out to be quite racist.
 
Over here, the hoodlums even tore down statues of Frederick Douglas and Ulysses S. Grant - two key figures in defeating slavery. So it appears to me that they only want to create chaos. And “they who want chaos” apparently includes the Mayors, Governors, and District Attorneys with their lack of action against the destructive individuals.


Frederick Douglass was born into slavery and escaped to the North. He was a passionate abolitionist, at home and abroad, and befriended President Abraham Lincoln.
 
1cthlctrth said:
Several countries have conducted studies that have not found material child-to-adult transmission
Click to expand...
More recent studies have shown there is significant transmission from child-to-adult, especially for children over 10 who transmit the virus as well as adults.
1cthlctrth said:
But New York has had 6 times as many COVID-related deaths as Florida.
Click to expand...
You are still ignoring the trend:
(Please Note: This uploaded content is no longer available.)

It is not over yet for Florida. It just keeps getting worse and worse. If you wanted to avoid the virus, where would you go today? Florida (the top graph) or New York (bottom graph?) Stop living in the past.
1cthlctrth said:
The United States has conducted by far the highest rate of testing in the world…
Click to expand...
The statistic you quoted disagrees with you. It puts the UK and Russia ahead of the US in that regard. Another thing to consider is that many of the US tests are taking four days for results, sometimes as long as a week. Such a test is relatively useless in contact tracing.
1cthlctrth said:
COVID-19 tests are available at no cost nationwide at health centers and select pharmacies.
Click to expand...
Have you seen the lines that are hours long of people waiting in line for tests?
 
Last edited:
1cthlctrth said:
Over here, the hoodlums even tore down statues of Frederick Douglas and Ulysses S. Grant - two key figures in defeating slavery. So it appears to me that they only want to create chaos. And “they who want chaos” apparently includes the Mayors, Governors, and District Attorneys with their lack of action against the destructive individuals.
Statue of Frederick Douglass Torn Down in Rochester
Frederick Douglass was born into slavery and escaped to the North. He was a passionate abolitionist, at home and abroad, and befriended President Abraham Lincoln.
Click to expand...
I think that it might be wise to separate those who indulge in vandalism for it’s own sake and the vast majority of peaceful protesters. We shouldn’t tar them all with the same brush.
 
1cthlctrth said:
40.png
toddy:
Americans failed.
Click to expand...
Yes, the state Governors who put COVID patients into nursing homes failed.
Click to expand...
toddy said:
40% infected have no symptoms!!!

Yale research:

asymptomatic infections account for 17.9% to 30.8% of all infections.

presymptomatic people would account for 47% to 48% of transmission ,

Enough understood.

Americans failed.
Click to expand...
Prevention is better than treatment.

(Please Note: This uploaded content is no longer available.)
 
Last edited:
1cthlctrth said:
But we should go with the science and data and open the schools.
Click to expand...
Except that the actual science and actual data, as opposed to cherry-picked out of date data, actually supports not opening schools in most places.
 
Anrakyr said:
40.png
Zzyzx_Road:
At least you admit that safety is not the end point. Which implies that you might admit there is a tradeoff between economic viability and safety. Which would further imply that the question of whether we’ve gone too far with the lockdowns is a fair one to debate. IMO, we’ve gone too far for the structural damage to the economy to be easily undone. But I’d be happy to hear counterpoints from those who still believe the damage is minimal at most.
Click to expand...
Im picturing a web comic of the London underground 1940 and someone like you screaming “we need to restart the economy!” While bombs thunder above.

We’ll come out when it’s safe. We can rebuild.
No matter how bad the damage is while there’s willing hands we can persevere.

After the rumbling stops.
Click to expand...
You mean when people stop smoking, and the obesity epidemic ends?
These problems kill exponentially more people than the virus ever will.
I’ll be waiting for the government to care about us enough to take some action here…
 
goout said:
You mean when people stop smoking, and the obesity epidemic ends?
These problems kill exponentially more people than the virus ever will.
I’ll be waiting for the government to care about us enough to take some action here…
Click to expand...
Clearly you haven’t been to a hospital lately.
 
1cthlctrth said:
But what about number of DEATHS? Those who follow what many of us refer to as the “Fake News” would probably think that Florida has had more COVID deaths than New York.
But New York has had 6 times as many COVID-related deaths as Florida.
Provisional Death Counts for Coronavirus Disease 2019 (COVID-19)
Click to expand...
Actually, those of us who try to find and understand real, actual facts are well aware that NY has had a lot more deaths: 32,710 deaths in NY vs. 7,084 in Florida. 4.6 times, by the way, not 6. And the number of confirmed cases in each state is similar: c. 421,000 in NY vs. 487,132 in Florida.

The question is why? And this question has been asked in the media since April. Here are some reasons:
  1. Both De Blasio and Cuomo dithered and ignored the advice of their health officials. They should have–and could have–shut down much earlier, but they refused, despite the examples of Italy and Spain. De Santis also made similar bad decisions–but with less serious consequences (so far!). But Florida’s surge was 3-4 months after NY’s. So he had not only Spain and Italy as examples, he had NY. De Blasio and Cuomo woke up to the danger; De Santis is still asleep.
  2. NY is not Florida. NY City is not Miami. People are packed much more densely in NY City–think subways, housing projects, even the streets. If you have been to both cities, you know there is no comparison.
  3. Treatments in March are vastly different than treatments in late June-July. For example, in March ventilators were thought to be the key. Then they realized the virus was causing blood clots in the lungs so they began treating patients with blood thinners. In March, people with dangerously low levels of oxygen weren’t getting treated because they didn’t feel that they were out of breath. Now the oxygen level is checked routinely and if it’s under 93%, they are treated. A lot of deaths are caused not by the virus itself, but by an over-reaction of the body’s immune system. This wasn’t clear at the beginning. Now patients are treated with steroids to prevent that. Early on, patients were on their backs; now we know that placing them on their stomachs makes it easier for them to breathe. All this makes a big difference in the death rate.
  4. Then there is the age of infected people. I haven’t look it up specifically, but the consensus seems to be that the current wave of infections has a larger % of younger people, who are less likely to die.
  5. The important thing is the trend, not the total number of deaths. NY has brought the deaths under control–
(Please Note: This uploaded content is no longer available.)

while Florida’s daily death rate is about 5 times what it was in May and climbing:

(Please Note: This uploaded content is no longer available.)
 
Last edited:
Anrakyr said:
40.png
goout:
You mean when people stop smoking, and the obesity epidemic ends?
These problems kill exponentially more people than the virus ever will.
I’ll be waiting for the government to care about us enough to take some action here…
Click to expand...
Clearly you haven’t been to a hospital lately.
Click to expand...
Since I’m not a mind reader, perhaps you could communicate a point.
 
Thanks for helping to prove my point: the media loved Cuomo as he was on his way toward 32,000 deaths, including putting COVID patients into nursing homes and causing thousands of unnecessary deaths. And they loved Cuomo despite his woeful unpreparedness for a pandemic that Trump had to come to rescue Cuomo.


While New York Gov. Andrew Cuomo blames the president and the federal government for the lack of beds and ventilators in his state, the power to determine the number of these critical medical supplies in New York hospitals falls squarely upon the shoulders of the governor.


Several years ago, after learning that the Empire State’s stockpile of medical equipment had 16,000 fewer ventilators than the 18,000 New Yorkers would need in a severe pandemic, state public-health leaders came to a fork in the road.
They could have chosen to buy more ventilators to back up the supplies hospitals maintain. Instead, the health commissioner, Howard Zucker, assembled a task force for rationing the ventilators they already had.


And Trump built areas for thousands of hospital beds in order to come to Cuomo’s rescue.


 
Last edited:
1cthlctrth said:
While New York Gov. Andrew Cuomo blames the president and the federal government for the lack of beds and ventilators in his state, the power to determine the number of these critical medical supplies in New York hospitals falls squarely upon the shoulders of the governor.
Click to expand...
Leaders were also left bidding against each other for supplies.
Also only the president has the power to compel companies to retool.

So no it wasn’t just one persons fault
 
Last edited:
I just watched all of Trump’s Axios interview, all 37 excruciating minutes of it. Since he has now stated twice in interviews that the “case mortality” rate of the US is the “best” in the world, I think it’s worthwhile to have a little reality check.

John’s Hopkins keeps track of both the “case mortality rate” (deaths / # of confirmed case) and the “deaths per 100,000 population.” It’s updated daily. Mortality Analyses - Johns Hopkins Coronavirus Resource Center

So today, the US’s case mortality rate (the statistic Trump always uses) is 3.2%. Do some other countries have a higher rate? Of course. The champion is the UK with 15%! But how many countries have a LOWER rate than the US? 109. That’s one hundred and nine countries that have a lower case mortality rate than the US, including S. Korea, Singapore, New Zealand, Australia, Cuba,Philippines, Vietnam, Taiwan, India, Norway, Ukraine, Russia, Argentina, Turkey, S. Africa, and Chile.

Someone who has no idea how to pronounce “Yosemite” has no business being president. Nor does someone who consistently lies about statistics.
 
Last edited:
1cthlctrth said:
Do you have any idea how easy it is for me to say, “But if this economic shutdown saves just one life!”
According to the worst predictions, 99 out of 100 of us will survive.
Click to expand...
Mortality rate seems to hover between 2 and 3%, so you save two or three.

But it’s a nice point - it’s so much harder to be pro-life when it actually costs you something.

🤔
 
If the situation were normal, the protests would never have gone international. Most likely, the phenomenon would have been limited to three or so US cities.

Sadly, deaths such as Floyd’s are in no way rare in this country, yet most of the time there are no protests or rioting.

It’s the pent-up rage over months in quarantine (and the economic uncertainty) that’s driving it. If the “powers” think this can be maintained for another year, they are smoking something really good in the halls of power.

ICXC NIKA
 
GEddie said:
If the situation were normal, the protests would never have gone international. Most likely, the phenomenon would have been limited to three or so US cities.
Click to expand...
I believe that the situation has gone global despite the virus. Covid19 has actually limited it.
 
Last edited:
I doubt it.

Why would other countries care about policing issues in American cities?

ICXC NIKA
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Back
Top