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Karin
Guest
Ich bin froh, daß Deutscher auch für Sie arbeitet (I am glad that German also works for you
) …but so other people can follow along cant we write in english???
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) …but so other people can follow along cant we write in english???
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aimee
Guest
Ich bin froh, daß Deutscher auch für Sie arbeitet (I am glad that German also works for you
Sie sprechen Deutsches… Ich kann comunicate in German. But French is so 
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manualman
Guest
The call for Solomon was the best post yet. He might be a bit too, um, musty to be much help these days though!
To all those who think they have all this agression figured out, I ask my usual question. Do you know who Haj Amin al-Husseini is and his biography? Read up and come on back.
In regards to the end of partition, it is a huge lie to say that most of the displaced Palestinians were evicted by Israeli troops. They were mostly lead out by their OWN leaders who were badly misinformed by the propaganda of Husseini. Those who stayed mostly not only retained their property, but were granted Israeli citizenship!
Had it not been for Husseini and his ilk, Palestine could well have become a peaceful melting pot.
The Liberty incident was indeed an example of Israeli self-interest placed above basic human decency. I worked in high school with a guy whose father was a crewman and is in a wheelchair as a result to this day. I know a bit about this, and the above post goes WAY beyond the facts. Yes, the Israeli government had good reason to fear that American actions might DELAY the war just long enough to eliminate the tactical surprises the Israelis had prepared. They did not believe that there was adequate political will in America to PREVENT a war, just delay it long enough to make it total genocide for the Jews. IMO, they probably had about as much moral justification to attack the Liberty as we did to nuke Nagasaki. (Do we deserve national execution for that?)
As noted, there is blame enough to go around in spades. But never forget that the bottom line is that the Israelis would be exterminated totally without US military support. The UN might debate or even protest, but would do NOTHING to stop it. The Israelis KNOW it and apply the Never Again policy to the point of being sure that they never err on the side of passivity again.
To all those who think they have all this agression figured out, I ask my usual question. Do you know who Haj Amin al-Husseini is and his biography? Read up and come on back.
In regards to the end of partition, it is a huge lie to say that most of the displaced Palestinians were evicted by Israeli troops. They were mostly lead out by their OWN leaders who were badly misinformed by the propaganda of Husseini. Those who stayed mostly not only retained their property, but were granted Israeli citizenship!
Had it not been for Husseini and his ilk, Palestine could well have become a peaceful melting pot.
The Liberty incident was indeed an example of Israeli self-interest placed above basic human decency. I worked in high school with a guy whose father was a crewman and is in a wheelchair as a result to this day. I know a bit about this, and the above post goes WAY beyond the facts. Yes, the Israeli government had good reason to fear that American actions might DELAY the war just long enough to eliminate the tactical surprises the Israelis had prepared. They did not believe that there was adequate political will in America to PREVENT a war, just delay it long enough to make it total genocide for the Jews. IMO, they probably had about as much moral justification to attack the Liberty as we did to nuke Nagasaki. (Do we deserve national execution for that?)
As noted, there is blame enough to go around in spades. But never forget that the bottom line is that the Israelis would be exterminated totally without US military support. The UN might debate or even protest, but would do NOTHING to stop it. The Israelis KNOW it and apply the Never Again policy to the point of being sure that they never err on the side of passivity again.
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Richardols
Guest
In your opinion, fine. But, there’s no comparing a questionable means to end a World War against a formidable enemy with attacking people who are supposed to be your friends.
We don’t.
So, you’d think that they wouldn’t bite the hand that feeds them, wouldn’t you? No attacking the U.S., no spying on the U.S., right?
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Bobby_A.Greene
Guest
Don’t minimalize the incident. That 171 Americans were wounded and another 34 Americans killed by a so-called allie goes way beyond self-interest, it should have been construed as an act of war by a hostile nation. The Israeli assault on the LIBERTY was more henious than the North Korean attack on the PUEBLO.
Sir, this is third-hand knowledge, sheer speculation. Why don’t you find that guy’s father and have him answer on this subject?
The LIBERTY discovered the fact that Israel instigated the Arab/Israel war, as well as the brutal executions of Arab P.O.W.s!
Excuse you, America was totally morally justified in dropping atomic bombs on Hiroshima and Nagasaki - there are two active threads discussing this subject right now. Also, any nation has the right for existance and self-preservation as long as they can stand on their own two feet, Israel’s dependence on the U.S. is tantamount to parasitism!
That is an Israeli problem and not a United States problem! Should the U.S. support every country in the world as it struggles to survive against its neighbors?
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gnjsdad
Guest
Bobby A. Greene:
IMO, the entire history of American foreign policy is a testament to the prescience of George Washington when he warned of the danger of entangling alliances; or to Madison, who warned of the dangers of faction and passionate attachments to foreign lands.
The WASP establishment’s passionate attachment to England led to Woodrow Wilson’s catastrophic intervention in World War I.
The same WASP establishment influenced FDR into maneuvering us into World War II.
Now, Israel’s partisans in this country are beating the drums for war and “regime change” against Israel’s enemies in the Middle East.
Israel is a foreign land, no different than any other foreign land with which the United States may or may not wish to ally.
IMO, the entire history of American foreign policy is a testament to the prescience of George Washington when he warned of the danger of entangling alliances; or to Madison, who warned of the dangers of faction and passionate attachments to foreign lands.
The WASP establishment’s passionate attachment to England led to Woodrow Wilson’s catastrophic intervention in World War I.
The same WASP establishment influenced FDR into maneuvering us into World War II.
Now, Israel’s partisans in this country are beating the drums for war and “regime change” against Israel’s enemies in the Middle East.
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Stu
Guest
Apparently the Old Testament isn’t aware either.
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gilliam
Guest
Point of information: Madison, when he was Sec. of State involved us in all kinds of foreign intrigues. In fact, Madison as Sec. of State, along with Jefferson as President, nearly got us in a war with Britain (the Army and Navy were not ready at the time or we would have been at war).
Washington, well Washington did align us with France and did get us into a war with Britain.
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Bobby_A.Greene
Guest
We were also at war with France between 1798 and 1801, the ‘Quasi-War with France’.
Our constant international intanglements at the cost of billion of dollars of taxpayers money and, more importantly, the lives of American citizens, should suggest the pursuit of an isolationist policy in the future.
Trouble is, that we are observably heading for a one world government would make isolationism an obsolete concept.
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Bobby_A.Greene
Guest
Personally I think the United States should take active measures to reinstate Mesopotamia or even Rome and a few other countries found in the Old Testament, not just Israel.
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Stu
Guest
Context is always important isn’t it? I will add that many believe President Washington’s warnings, given during a time of conflict in Europe, were aimed at keeping our country neutral long enough for her to mature as a nation becoming master of her own domain and thus able to determine her own destiny
But if we really want to rid ourselves of an “entangling alliance”, let’s keep Israel and jettison the UN.
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Stu
Guest
Bobby A. Greene:
Well we’ve starting cleaning up Mesopotamia. Give it time.
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thestickman
Guest
Lemme see. Regarding the Liberty issue…a horrible incident, to be sure–however, anyone got a link to validate the assertion Israel started the Israel-Arab war.
Has Israel been perfect since it’s been allowed back into existence? Nope. However, to my understanding, excluding the fledgling democracy in Iraq, Israel is the only representitive government in the middle east. And, as I understand things, any Arab is permitted to live safely and freely in Israel as long as they pay taxes like any other citizen. Hmmm…if this is true, why are so many in this forum and elsewhere against Israel or at best, indifferent?
Maybe if they started sawing off heads while praising “Allah” someone might start making excuses for them?
Has Israel been perfect since it’s been allowed back into existence? Nope. However, to my understanding, excluding the fledgling democracy in Iraq, Israel is the only representitive government in the middle east. And, as I understand things, any Arab is permitted to live safely and freely in Israel as long as they pay taxes like any other citizen. Hmmm…if this is true, why are so many in this forum and elsewhere against Israel or at best, indifferent?
Maybe if they started sawing off heads while praising “Allah” someone might start making excuses for them?
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thestickman
Guest
Bobby A. Greene:
Nations that practice isolation…hmmm…Like North Korea? Burma?
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Stu
Guest
“You’ll most likely know it as Myanmar, but it’ll always be Burma to me. . . . You there, on the motorbike! Sell me one of your belts!”
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gnjsdad
Guest
True, the partisans of England and France never stopped trying to maneuver our fledgling republic into supporting one side or the other in its early years. Partisan factions are a problem that will always plague democracies. That’s why we need statesmen to act in American interests. Madison and Jefferson acted in what they thought were American interests and were quite willing to use England and France against each other if the United States benefited.
Washington didn’t get us into war with Britain. It had already begun when he took command.
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gilliam
Guest
You mean early 1775, when he showed up in his army uniform and lobbied to be placed at the head of the army during the Second Continental Congress? Which happened in May, 1775. The entire Continental Army wasn’t at war with Britain then, only the New England militia. It was only after his lobbying efforts and the push for independence after that congress that we were at full rebellion with Britain. The Battle of Bunker Hill was fought on June 17, 1775.
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2shelbys
Guest
Come on Stu, you know that is a ridiculous comment. There are scores of places mentioned in ancient texts that no longer exist and until 1947 Israel was one of them. If it did exist, why did it have to be re-created?
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Stu
Guest
You stated:
That isn’t true.
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gilliam
Guest
Because Rome took the land from the Jews, the Byzantines from the Romans, the Arabs from the Byzantines, the Christians from the Arabs, and then the Arabs (led by a Kurd) from the Christians.
Believe it or not, Arabs are not natives of Judea.
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