Why a "dead" language?

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agr4028

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We can probably all agree, that our purpose on this earth is to seek eternal life with God after this tour is done.

That being said, why would we want to pursue the most important purpose for our existience, by adhering to a dead, foreign language to do so?

Does it not make more sense, to evangelize the nations in their native tongues? Is that not what the Holy Spirit provided to the Apostles?

🤷
 
How can you call Latin a dead language when it is the language that people the world over, regardless of their native language, for centuries and centuries have joined together to worship the Lord in?
 
Of course, missionaries have always learned the tongues of the place where the went to spread the faith.

However, in regards to the language of worship, as Bl. John XXIII explained, the idea is that a common language of worship allows uniformity across nations–and since it is a dead language, no particular nation is favored.

I think there’s a good argument for that line of reasoning in regards to a single language but I think there’s also a good argument for the seamless coat of many colors idea (espoused by St. Bonaventure, for example)–that there can be a diversity of forms and sounds used for worship, but that does not harm unity, but even creates a greater unity and sense of supranationality (while not uniformity in all things).
 
dulcissima said:
How can you call Latin a dead language when it is the language that people the world over, regardless of their native language, for centuries and centuries have joined together to worship the Lord in?
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Is that a rhetorical question? Of course Latin is a “dead” language, that is why it is used in the medical profession. But only medical professionals need to know it. We are trying to evangelize the nations. A different story all together.

If Latin was/is the universal language of the Church, then perhaps someone can explain why we had so many “ethnic” Catholic parishes within the same cities?
 
Latin is a language
As dead as dead can be.
First it killed the Romans,
Now it’s killing me. (elementary Latin pupils’ rhyme)

“Latin” is dead linguistically – “extinct” is a better term, in that there are no native-born speakers. That does not deny its importance and use as a lingua franca. There is a demand for a “universal language” – hence Esperanto, Novial, Ido, Volapuk, etc. Latin has the advantage of having already been a living language (and a written one at that), AND a (more or less) universal language in Europe in secular affairs and internationally in Church affairs.
 
My priest knows Latin, English, Tagolog, Spanish, French, Italian, and Mandarin. He seems to me to be prepared to evangelize the nations.

People do have a preference though when they are immigrants, to have a chance to get together with those that share their common culture and language. I don’t see anything wrong with that, but I think worshipping God transcends such things.
 
agr4028 said:
Is that a rhetorical question? Of course Latin is a “dead” language, that is why it is used in the medical profession. But only medical professionals need to know it. We are trying to evangelize the nations. A different story all together.

If Latin was/is the universal language of the Church, then perhaps someone can explain why we had so many “ethnic” Catholic parishes within the same cities?
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Some of those ethnic churches use “dead” languages as well. The Maronite Catholic church chants the Eucharistic prayer in Aramaic, which I believe has a similar relationship to languages in the Middle East as Latin does to European languages (ie, it is the source of those languages, and shares many words, but a Lebanese speaker wouldn’t necessarily understand it). Ironically, when driving home from a Latin Mass, sometimes the radio station I listen to has advertisements for a Jewish center that’s teaching Hebrew so people can understand that language, which is apparently used in their services as well.

Latin is used because Latin was used for centuries and people hold on to tradition. I don’t know what else to say. Personally, I don’t much care if Latin is used, but I do respect those that will put forth the effort to learn it and use it. I wish I understood it myself. I have a great difficulty learning new languages, but after attending 5-10 Latin Masses, I find I am picking up a few words and phrases. But I’ll never probably never be able to speak it.
 
Why is it used in scientific taxonomy? Homo sapiens sapiens?
 
agr4028 said:
Is that a rhetorical question? Of course Latin is a “dead” language, that is why it is used in the medical profession. But only medical professionals need to know it. We are trying to evangelize the nations. A different story all together.

If Latin was/is the universal language of the Church, then perhaps someone can explain why we had so many “ethnic” Catholic parishes within the same cities?
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Latin is not used to evangelize nations; it’s used for liturgy and as an official language of the Universal Church. I agree that using Latin to evangelize makes little sense – as does using English or any other specific language.

Latin is one of few languages that remains in use from the time of the early Church. There was no English, German, French, Spanish, Italian, or even Greek as they appear in their present forms. Though Greek could likely have been useful as a common language, it makes sense that Latin was used since the Church rooted itself in the Roman Empire.

If we were to stop using Latin as an official, internal language, popes and bishops would need to become fluent in dozens (if not hundreds) of languages in order to effect communication from one corner of the Church to another. As it stands, Latin enables a universal communication, and it has been used in that capacity for centuries. There’s no reason to change it now – and if we did, imagine the logistical and linguistic nightmare that would create!

Peace,
Dante
 
dulcissima said:
My priest knows Latin, English, Tagolog, Spanish, French, Italian, and Mandarin. He seems to me to be prepared to evangelize the nations.

People do have a preference though when they are immigrants, to have a chance to get together with those that share their common culture and language. I don’t see anything wrong with that, but I think worshipping God transcends such things.
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As long as you realize that you’re expressing your PERSONAL opinion, no problem.
That is, you’re not speaking for the Church in your preference for Latin.
 
brotherhrolf said:
Why is it used in scientific taxonomy? Homo sapiens sapiens?
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Because it sounds dumb in English: “Man smart-smart!”

Taxonomy also uses Greek (Troglodytes gorilla, a tribe of hairy women living in caves) and other non-English languages, altho’ I think they are all Latinized (*Pongo *=> pongidae).
 
catharina said:
As long as you realize that you’re expressing your PERSONAL opinion, no problem.
That is, you’re not speaking for the Church in your preference for Latin.
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“I think” does seem to denote personal opinion.
 
dulcissima said:
“I think” does seem to denote personal opinion.
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Latin remains useful for official communications within the Church and as a shorthand in law and medicine. It’s hard to imagine how anyone other than those so involved (or gifted linguists) would develop an attachment to it today. The Latin that I remember from my youth includes a number of prayers and I have a younger friend who is fluent in Latin, but she’s unusual.
 
Do they never sing Latin hymns at Mass at your parish? I can’t see how someone could not be moved by such hymns and prayers. They take you outside of the mundane and into the sacred. I just don’t understand how anyone could have disdain for Latin.
 
I spent a while at an SSPX parish with a primary school attached to it and all of the wee kids learnt Latin from 5 and Greek shortly after. Putting aside the religious aspects, the learning of Latin is incredibly helpful to English speakers in developing a great understanding of their own language’s grammar. In addition, there are so many beautiful pieces of writing written in Latin (including much poetry). The use of Latin should be promoted as much as possible for this reason alone.

And then there is the Mass - knowing Latin (which is the language of the Traditional Mass and the language the current Pope is trying to get more widespread in the new Mass) will help you develop a much deeper understanding of the liturgical texts. I can really so no reason at all to despise its use.

Oh - and with regards to split parishes over race - when the Church only had Latin - everyone went to the same Mass - since introducing the babel Mass (so to speak) parishes now offer Mass in a variety of languages which splits the community. If you want a true community spirit - give everyone a community prayer - the Mass in Latin is just that!
 
dulcissima said:
Do they never sing Latin hymns at Mass at your parish? I can’t see how someone could not be moved by such hymns and prayers. They take you outside of the mundane and into the sacred. I just don’t understand how anyone could have disdain for Latin.
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I have always loved the Latin Mass and prayers and hymns in Latin too. I was raised with it and studied Latin for three years in HS, again some more in college. Loving it (the liturgy in Latin) and missing it is one thing. Saying that: “People do have a preference though when they are immigrants, to have a chance to get together with those that share their common culture and language. I don’t see anything wrong with that, but I think worshipping God transcends such things” is another issue. In this day when Latin is used divisively to separate those within the Church, I work very hard to unite my will to the will of God and the Church. The Church has spoken so I must think that worshipping God “in the vernacular” has to be our preference. The ordinary form of the Mass is the NO for everyone in the Church today. Holding a different opinion is not something I would allow myself. We’re not riding a wave of 40-year experimentation.
 
wraithx said:
I spent a while at an SSPX parish with a primary school attached to it and all of the wee kids learnt Latin from 5 and Greek shortly after. Putting aside the religious aspects, the learning of Latin is incredibly helpful to English speakers in developing a great understanding of their own language’s grammar. In addition, there are so many beautiful pieces of writing written in Latin (including much poetry). The use of Latin should be promoted as much as possible for this reason alone.

And then there is the Mass - knowing Latin (which is the language of the Traditional Mass and the language the current Pope is trying to get more widespread in the new Mass) will help you develop a much deeper understanding of the liturgical texts. I can really so no reason at all to despise its use.

Oh - and with regards to split parishes over race - when the Church only had Latin - everyone went to the same Mass - since introducing the babel Mass (so to speak) parishes now offer Mass in a variety of languages which splits the community. If you want a true community spirit - give everyone a community prayer - the Mass in Latin is just that!
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Poetry? So Chaucer, Shakespeare, Milton, Donne, Pope, Byron, Wordsworth, Coleridge, Browning and Barrett-Browning, Tennyson, Eliot, Yeats, Emily Dickinson and Walt Whitman aren’t enough for you? 😃
 
wraithx said:
I spent a while at an SSPX parish with a primary school attached to it and all of the wee kids learnt Latin from 5 and Greek shortly after. Putting aside the religious aspects, the learning of Latin is incredibly helpful to English speakers in developing a great understanding of their own language’s grammar. In addition, there are so many beautiful pieces of writing written in Latin (including much poetry). The use of Latin should be promoted as much as possible for this reason alone.

And then there is the Mass - knowing Latin (which is the language of the Traditional Mass and the language the current Pope is trying to get more widespread in the new Mass) will help you develop a much deeper understanding of the liturgical texts. I can really so no reason at all to despise its use.

Oh - and with regards to split parishes over race - when the Church only had Latin - everyone went to the same Mass - since introducing the babel Mass (so to speak) parishes now offer Mass in a variety of languages which splits the community. If you want a true community spirit - give everyone a community prayer - the Mass in Latin is just that!
Click to expand...
“Babel Mass?” You might want to up your reverence-quotient quite a bit. We are to bring holiness to every Mass and join as one in prayer, whatever the language.
 
dulcissima said:
Do they never sing Latin hymns at Mass at your parish? I can’t see how someone could not be moved by such hymns and prayers. They take you outside of the mundane and into the sacred. I just don’t understand how anyone could have disdain for Latin.
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Some prayers are sung in Latin at my parish. And, when they do, I stand there wondering “what’s the point?”

🤷
 
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