N
Neofight
Guest
The opinion of St. Thomas is just that, no infallible or doctrinal.
Why "adoration" of the cross instead of "veneration" on Good Friday?
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This does not mean you can simply dismiss him, Immaculate Conception notwithstanding.
The Church’s own behaviour during her liturgies tells us she thinks along the same lines as St. Thomas on this matter.
B
Bookcat
Guest
Things were likely clarified later…
Quote:
“Supreme absolute worship (latria) is due to God alone and to Christ our Lord; supreme* relative* worship is paid to the* Cross* and to the other instruments of the Passion and also to imagines of God and of Christ.”
See the: Handbook of Moral Theology - Prummer OP. 1957 Pg 175
(note he is a Dominican…so he would be quite up on what St. Thomas wrote).
Quote:
“Supreme absolute worship (latria) is due to God alone and to Christ our Lord; supreme* relative* worship is paid to the* Cross* and to the other instruments of the Passion and also to imagines of God and of Christ.”
See the: Handbook of Moral Theology - Prummer OP. 1957 Pg 175
(note he is a Dominican…so he would be quite up on what St. Thomas wrote).
You are correct. Words matter, especially in the liturgy. That’s why I’m adamant that St. Thomas is correct, because the Church herself confirms this in her liturgy. Lex orandi, lex credendi: we pray what we believe.
We honour, venerate, etc. the Blessed Virgin, St. Joseph and the saints with the veneration of dulia.
But we do not merely “venerate” the Cross. We adore it with the adoration of latria.
B
Bookcat
Guest
“worship” in the current U.S. translation of the Liturgy of the Hours.
And yes, relative.
B
Bookcat
Guest
It is* relative* adoration…simply Latria (absolute adoration)
III,25,4. The Cross is to be adored with the adoration of latria.
And it is relative latria, not absolute latria, but it IS latria.
B
Bookcat
Guest
Because the Liturgy of the Hours has not yet been corrected.
What I gave you is from the Liturgy of Good Friday - the Adoration of the Holy Cross.
B
Bookcat
Guest
The use of “worship” even in the current Liturgy of the Hours is still correct. It means adoration, i.e. latria.
Eventually it may be revised, but as of right now, it’s still the Church’s lex orandi. It supports, does not oppose, the text you provided from Good Friday.
B
Bookcat
Guest
From the Rite for the Adoration of the Cross on Good Friday:
“Behold the wood of the Cross one which hung the salvation of the world.”
R: Come let us adore or Venite Adoremus
(Daily Roman Misssal from MTF and Scepter Publishers- current translation).
And such is relative adoration.
As Nicea notes it passes to he whom it represents.
“Behold the wood of the Cross one which hung the salvation of the world.”
R: Come let us adore or Venite Adoremus
(Daily Roman Misssal from MTF and Scepter Publishers- current translation).
And such is relative adoration.
As Nicea notes it passes to he whom it represents.
B
Bookcat
Guest
Yes but the term “worship” can also translate dulia (honor). Such as judges are called in England or Princess Leah in Star Wars (your worship…)
Hence it is not the best term to use and Adoration is closer to the Latin Adoremus.
Absolute latria is when you worship God as God, i.e. he is the direct object of your worship. For example, when you adore the Blessed Sacrament. The Sacrament is the direct object of your worship, i.e. you are adoring IT as God.Hello, please could you explain the difference here?
Relative worship is given an image of God, something that represents him as a person. You show that object (such as an image or the Cross) the same worship that’s due to the person it respresents. However because the Cross, for example, represents Christ as it is an image of Christ, it is worshipped with relative latria: the worship is not directed to the object as the object, say the Cross as the Cross itself, made of wood and all that, but it passes on to the Person which the Prototype of that object. The worship passes on to Christ himself, who is the Person represented by the Cross.
Yes, adore is more precise and less ambiguous. But “worship” refers to “dulia” only loosely these days, not as much as it did back in the day. That’s why “worship” misused today scandalizes so many who ought to know better.
B
Bookcat
Guest
Something is absolute if offered directly to persons. Something is relative is if it is offered to things because of their close connection to the persons (it passes though to the persons).Hello, please could you explain the difference here?
Latria (absolute Latria) is given to God alone. (the Holy Trinity, to each of the Persons…to Jesus in the Eucharist)
Relative Latria is given to such as the Cross or other images of Christ…(it passes to Christ).
Dulia (honor) is given to Saints and Angels.
Relative Dulia is given to images of the Saints and Angels (it passes to them).
*
Hyperdulia* is given to Our Lady
Relative Hyperdulia is given to images of Our Lady (and it passes to her).
If one gave absolute adoration to say an image of Christ - it would be making that image Christ - God. It would be idolatry.
(we also give various kinds of honor to living persons…such as parents… but not latria! And no baby is “adorable” except one and a star was involved in finding him… )
T
Todd977
Guest
I think you meant to say, “Relative Hyperdulia is given to images of Our Lady (and it passes to Our Lady).”
B
Bookcat
Guest
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