P
pathia
Guest
Hospitals are for emergency care, especially the ER. You cannot treat chronically ill people in the hospital. The hospital is when something is acute, or the chronic care failed and you have to do a quickfix.
- Status
M
ManOnFire
Guest
How much money are people spending every month above and beyond basic food, basic clothing and basic shelter? Health care should be #4 on people’s priority list, but, somehow, magically, many people expect someone else to pay for it while some are still purchasing fancy clothes, entertainment, high speed internet and computers, deluxe cell phones, etc. Then it’s somehow magically someone else’s fault when they get sick that they were “spending $400 per month on luxury items” instead of buying their own healthcare. Entertainment is not a right and it’s wasting carbon. How many people are spending money on weekend party supplies instead of buying their own healthcare? The best money the govt. could spend would be to hire private detectives to census what items people are spending their money on, but the truth and the political correctness might make some people “feel bad” and we all know who can’t handle it. So, I guess we’ll just keep pretending that we’re weak people who can’t help ourselves.
Breaking the anti-trust laws that create insurance minimums is the key, but the healthcare ins. co’s that contributed to Presidential campaigns need to be monetarily thanked for their contributions, so we’ll contine on in this fake democracy that is run by “We The Sheeple.”
Breaking the anti-trust laws that create insurance minimums is the key, but the healthcare ins. co’s that contributed to Presidential campaigns need to be monetarily thanked for their contributions, so we’ll contine on in this fake democracy that is run by “We The Sheeple.”
M
Monte_RCMS
Guest
There are many many insurance companies that are ready, willing and able to compete with offering low cost medical insurance policies. Such as HSA’s with catastrophic coverage for individuals.
BUT the government REFUSES to allow them to sell those policies especially interstate. You have to be an employer with at least two employees to buy those policies.
How lame is that?!!!
AND the tax policy put in by our Congress refuses to allow full deductibility for medical insurance for self-employed people.
The answer for Pathia and everyone else is tax credits for medical insurance and for all medical expenses including doctors’ medical malpractice costs.
One stroke of a pen in a one paragraph law from Congress. None of these two thousand page “baloney” bills is necessary. ONE PARAGRAPH.
AND with full tax credits, everyone could get whatever they wanted, AND we could eliminate the entire Health and Human Services cabinet department. Big savings in taxes.
Could probably eliminate half of the IRS, as well.
And eliminate a whole host of other departments that are busily spending our tax money to look after us. We wouldn’t need any of them anymore.
ONE PARAGRAPH is all we need. Tax credits.
P
pathia
Guest
Really? My bills are greater than my entire yearly income. You can’t squeeze blood from a stone. Even if I paid no taxes, I would still be in the hole annually.
M
ManOnFire
Guest
If supermarkets got together and decided to all charge $25 for a gallon of milk, you can bet there would be civil disobedience and protests. The same is happening in healthcare, but they’ve been dumbing down the sheeple for so long, everyone thinks it’s more complicated than it is. Why do you think healthcare was affordable 20 years ago and not now? The govt. could pass the anti-trust legislation we’re suggesting, push torte reform, and we’d probably be fine.
Were you dropped from ins, or did you get sick before you had health ins?
P
pathia
Guest
I was sick the moment I was conceived, I have genetic abnormalities. I was dropped from insurance when I was 9months old and once again when I was 17, right before I turned 18 and was going to get it on my own. Sending you a PM with the gory details.
A
aspawloski4th
Guest
And if we have only physical needs and nothing more , you call that freedom? I call it living like an animal. Granted I have more than is just needed physically too. But my computer was bought for $200 when I was doing much better 3 years ago, the 2 tv’s in my house are 13 and 16 years old and I watch tv from the antenna( you need tv to warn yourself of severe weather), I don’t own a cell phone, but yes I have a reguler phone incase I have to call 911 for my wife’s diebetes, and I drive a 13 yearold car with 120000 miles on it that I just did a jimmyrig job to repair a hole in my oil pan. I don’t think I am living a luxurious life. If it wasn’t for medicare my 46 yearold wife would be dead, she had a stroke recently. Because I can’t afford skin doctor if any of my 100’s of moles turn to cancer, my wife will be a widow with no one to care for her. If freedom as you difine it means living like a dog, I’ll gladly without it than have my humanity stripped of me.
D
DomusAurea
Guest
I’m from Sweden and don’t quite grasp the american system. You all have private insurances but if someone gets sick and can’t afford treatment there’s a culture of pro bono - am i right?
My country’s system was built by “the social democrats” - a party that is sort of politically center in Sweden, but in the US it would be considered far left. All swedes pay enormous amounts of taxes and in return gets free health care (all though not dental), education (even university) and so on.
A lot of swedes are very proud of the system. But it is a system that has put an enormous amount of power in the hands of the state. Whatever the politicians want to do I have to pay for! That means abortion (now Sweden even offers free-of-charge abortions to irish and polish girls!), stem cell research, handing out the pill and condoms to all teenagers who wants them. It means that no catholic can work as a midwife, because midwives are not allowed to refuse being a part of abortion (that’s right, we have no conscience clause!). It means that the schools your child goes to (yes even the catholic schools) teaches promiscuity - and you as a parent would be committing a crime (a small one, but still) if you decide to keep your child at home during those days.
Yet I cannot deny the Swedish system works as an equalizer …
I just really want to tell you americans to take great care before you start handing over that type of power to the state. We Swedish catholics are starting to have to pay for it …
My country’s system was built by “the social democrats” - a party that is sort of politically center in Sweden, but in the US it would be considered far left. All swedes pay enormous amounts of taxes and in return gets free health care (all though not dental), education (even university) and so on.
A lot of swedes are very proud of the system. But it is a system that has put an enormous amount of power in the hands of the state. Whatever the politicians want to do I have to pay for! That means abortion (now Sweden even offers free-of-charge abortions to irish and polish girls!), stem cell research, handing out the pill and condoms to all teenagers who wants them. It means that no catholic can work as a midwife, because midwives are not allowed to refuse being a part of abortion (that’s right, we have no conscience clause!). It means that the schools your child goes to (yes even the catholic schools) teaches promiscuity - and you as a parent would be committing a crime (a small one, but still) if you decide to keep your child at home during those days.
Yet I cannot deny the Swedish system works as an equalizer …
I just really want to tell you americans to take great care before you start handing over that type of power to the state. We Swedish catholics are starting to have to pay for it …
M
Monte_RCMS
Guest
The tax credit can be arranged so that if your medical expenses exceed your income tax due, that the IRS would send you a check. In other words, the government (and the tax payers) would pay your medical bills.
But there would be no government bureaucrat making your medical care/ health care decisions.
But there would be no government bureaucrat making your medical care/ health care decisions.
C
ComputerGeek25
Guest
Yes and no. I believe this works on a case by case basis.
This is what people don’t understand. Having all these “luxuries” has it’s cost…
K
KQP
Guest
I get why Pathia wants govt healthcare. People in her situation should have some accomodation, but not sure what. I have a view I would love to have others (name removed by moderator)ut on. When Jesus helps the poor in the New Testament, where does he ever rely on the govt to help them? If anything, He seems to try to avoid them. It seems he wants us (the people) to be more involved with the direct charitable act. These opportunities would allow us to receive so many more graces on top of being more effective.
I think most liberals and conservatives believe what they do to help relieve others suffering. However, if you look specifcally at the historical facts, more people are assisted when the govt isn’t the provider. Private charitable giving goes much farther than govt funding or “interference”. I know charities that will not accept govt funding because they would not be as effective with the govt funding and rules. One that I know of in CO says that with govt funding and having to follow their rules they would have a 3% success rate. Without govt funding, they are 33% effective.
Wish there was a statistical study on this type of thing.
I think most liberals and conservatives believe what they do to help relieve others suffering. However, if you look specifcally at the historical facts, more people are assisted when the govt isn’t the provider. Private charitable giving goes much farther than govt funding or “interference”. I know charities that will not accept govt funding because they would not be as effective with the govt funding and rules. One that I know of in CO says that with govt funding and having to follow their rules they would have a 3% success rate. Without govt funding, they are 33% effective.
Wish there was a statistical study on this type of thing.
A
aspawloski4th
Guest
Where does an intersexual like Pathia turn when every religous charitable organization turns away?
N
NotWorthy
Guest
You may want to ask KQP that question. I was questioning his model of using religious groups to provide healthcare. Agnostics would have the same problem.
I stick to my last point. Insurance companies are a profit-making company (if you can call 3%-5% profitable). They can’t afford to keep someone who is going to be such a longterm drain on their bottom line. Those people should be placed in a program such as Medicare/Medicaid (or invent a new program since these don’t fit). It seem that society has no problem with auto insurance companies dropping drivers who are too expensive to insure (or raising their premiums), and the medical insurance companies are faced with the same problems. Hence, the government should take over these cases.
M
Monte_RCMS
Guest
There are privately operated hospitals and other institutions that offer treatment for people who don’t have money. Some people are repelled by the idea of charity. In some cases, the government has harrassed some of these institutions out of business. There are foundations privately funded that do just about everything. There are research institutions. All sorts of mechanisms for rare or unusual or costly disorders. It would be very simple for the Congress to modify tax policy to widen the appeal for privately funding various medically-oriented charities.
N
NotWorthy
Guest
Congress would only do this if it gave them a chance to control those charitable organizations.
“Catholic Hospitals… you want to help the poor with government grants? OK, but you gotta start doing abortions and giving contraception counseling to teens. Capice?”.
M
mandyi4031
Guest
When the issue of healthcare reform and “which sytem is the best”, I noticed one country that tends to be over looked…a silent country that actually has many good provisions for it’s people due to taking the funding from it’s army post-WWII (it does have a US presence but mostly because it said we’d have to supply the troops if we wanted it to be a part of our anti-drug war)…but it’s Costa Rica. In the past 60 years that it’s had a “universal” healthcare system, here are some stats and info :cehat.org/rthc/paper5.htm. On a side note, when searching for something to back up my point ( I learned about their system when I was down there in 05, so wanted to find support), a quick search on bing.com brings up plenty of support for its system, as well as a company that specializes in bringing Americans down there for health care procedures.
In addition, here is a timeline of health reform history in the US, read into it what you will. However, it does leave out that we now have tapes thanks to Freedom of Infomation where we have Richard Nixon talking on the phone with Henry Kaiser (of KaiserPermenete) where Kaiser agrees to give Nixon major stock in the company in exchange for helping to make things easier for the insurance company. Here is this link: pbs.org/healthcarecrisis/history.htm I just wanted to provide it for anyone who’s curious to learn more, regardless of what side you’re on.
In addition, I have seen many people on here question what is the more Christian way of doing things in regard to healthcare. I invite you all to read about the views of the Sisters of Mercy, who have long been social justice advocates: mercy.net/advocacy/
As for my own beliefs, I think that we need to fix something. I recently loss my dad to ALS. Thankfully, he was only really sick for a little over a year, but some people have to suffer for years on the disease, many of those ending up in nursing homes after becoming completely trapped within thier bodies-not cheap. Even with the wonderful aid of the ALS association, MDA, (in my dad’s case) The Paralyzed Vets, the organizations that provided the most help were the VA and my county’s non-profit VNA. In regards to the VA: when my dad was first diagnosed he was put on a medicine that helps prolong life by a few months to years depending on the point a person is put on it. This medicine, while not a cure, buys the person with ALS precious time with their family. WITH insurance it was $500 dollars a quarter. We couldn’t afford that, but fortunately, seeing that ALS is considered a service-related disease, my dad’s doctor recommened he apply to the VA. With the VA’s help, the medicine cost only $10. Now I know people will argue that because he served he was entitled to something as a “thank you”, but my counter is this: people serve this country in many ways, not just in government or military but in the day to day, shouldn’t they get help too? Also, in our county, we have a Visiting Nurses Association that is funded through the county, but is set up as a non-profit and available to all. It receives private donations as well. Without their help, knowledge and resources, I don’t know how we could have gotten through it. I think expanding the model of a government non-profit, an idea once proposed in the US could be a wonderful compromise.
And to the comments about people having multiple children to support them: My parents were not blessed with any other children except for me. Both were devout Catholics, and so they tried and tried, but ended up with just one birth and four miscarriages, adoption was contemplated as well but they never had the money and felt that thier advanced age (by the time adoption was considered they were into thier mid-late 40’s) was not fair to any adoptee (they were afraid of not being able to take care of a young child or passing away early). While I plan to support my mom the best she can, as a semi-retiree and a widow, it’s going to be a financially tough go of things, and there’s no garauntee that the child can afford to care for themselves and their spouses/children let alone thier parents. Just a thought to ponder.
In addition, here is a timeline of health reform history in the US, read into it what you will. However, it does leave out that we now have tapes thanks to Freedom of Infomation where we have Richard Nixon talking on the phone with Henry Kaiser (of KaiserPermenete) where Kaiser agrees to give Nixon major stock in the company in exchange for helping to make things easier for the insurance company. Here is this link: pbs.org/healthcarecrisis/history.htm I just wanted to provide it for anyone who’s curious to learn more, regardless of what side you’re on.
In addition, I have seen many people on here question what is the more Christian way of doing things in regard to healthcare. I invite you all to read about the views of the Sisters of Mercy, who have long been social justice advocates: mercy.net/advocacy/
As for my own beliefs, I think that we need to fix something. I recently loss my dad to ALS. Thankfully, he was only really sick for a little over a year, but some people have to suffer for years on the disease, many of those ending up in nursing homes after becoming completely trapped within thier bodies-not cheap. Even with the wonderful aid of the ALS association, MDA, (in my dad’s case) The Paralyzed Vets, the organizations that provided the most help were the VA and my county’s non-profit VNA. In regards to the VA: when my dad was first diagnosed he was put on a medicine that helps prolong life by a few months to years depending on the point a person is put on it. This medicine, while not a cure, buys the person with ALS precious time with their family. WITH insurance it was $500 dollars a quarter. We couldn’t afford that, but fortunately, seeing that ALS is considered a service-related disease, my dad’s doctor recommened he apply to the VA. With the VA’s help, the medicine cost only $10. Now I know people will argue that because he served he was entitled to something as a “thank you”, but my counter is this: people serve this country in many ways, not just in government or military but in the day to day, shouldn’t they get help too? Also, in our county, we have a Visiting Nurses Association that is funded through the county, but is set up as a non-profit and available to all. It receives private donations as well. Without their help, knowledge and resources, I don’t know how we could have gotten through it. I think expanding the model of a government non-profit, an idea once proposed in the US could be a wonderful compromise.
And to the comments about people having multiple children to support them: My parents were not blessed with any other children except for me. Both were devout Catholics, and so they tried and tried, but ended up with just one birth and four miscarriages, adoption was contemplated as well but they never had the money and felt that thier advanced age (by the time adoption was considered they were into thier mid-late 40’s) was not fair to any adoptee (they were afraid of not being able to take care of a young child or passing away early). While I plan to support my mom the best she can, as a semi-retiree and a widow, it’s going to be a financially tough go of things, and there’s no garauntee that the child can afford to care for themselves and their spouses/children let alone thier parents. Just a thought to ponder.
C
ComputerGeek25
Guest
To paraphrase Ron Paul again, this isn’t about providing healthcare to individuals, it’s about control.
A
aspawloski4th
Guest
Isn’t everything about control? Anyway
N
NotWorthy
Guest
Why, yes it is. Do I wish to control my own health needs? Or should I trust our benevolent government?
Gee, THAT’S a tough one.- Status