Why Apostates Who Leave Mormonism Fight So Hard Against It

[notsmart]

Do indians still hold “whites” accountable today for what “whites” did to them?

I am gettting that woosey feeling in my stomach reading some posts here that are making me feel guilty to be born “white”?

As if being white is a nationality?

I don’t wear on my sleeve the fact that my ancestors being “white” did not help them one bit against the bloodthirsty Russians.

Well, I guess I just did. Maybe to prove a point to the non whites that can not stand to be associated with us “whites” that never harmed them to lump us all into one category like this.

I think this is a classic case of bigotry if I ever saw it.

 

[ronald_g_w]

where do you get that humans become angles? Jesus is not the first born he is the only begotten Son of the Father.

I believe what you wrote answers the question of the OP.

Jesus is not the only beggoten son of God for we are his sons as well YES HE IS THE ONLY BEGGOTEN SON IN THE FLESH big difference

 

[why_me]

It is in fact so powerful that all you really have to do is hear about it and you realize that it must be stopped for the good of all mankind.

The world would be a much sadder place without mormons. They are godly people who pray much.

 

[why_me]

I’m a bit ashamed of some of my fellow Catholics, here. I asked Ronald several questions, and he gave pretty straight answers. To two of them he actually said “Yes.” I don’t recall any of our other Mormon friends giving a straight yes or no answer to similar questions, anywhere on these forums.

Refuting his answers is fine; belittling him personally, and Mormons in general, is not. It is contrary to charity, which I believe is one of the cardinal virtues…:tsktsk:.

There. I’m through being a “charity cop.” Play nice, y’all.

Ruthie

I am not sure if the people who are belittling mormons and the mormon church are actually catholic. Their behavior is very uncatholic and seems to go uncensored by the moderators. All the suppose catholics who are belittling the mormon faith and mormons need to purify their heart and go to confession.

 

[ronald_g_w]

zerinus;4069211:

Because the lds lies to them and treats them like objects for possession. Lds worships deamons. God does not live on the planet kolob so the entity there that the lds worhips must be a deamon, not God.

You’d like to think that wouldn’t you.

So if someone finds out that the lds lied to them, the message really came from satan? How about we just not tollerate your lies. How about we all just treat all you lds people like publilc sinners because you lie to us.

Big difference, huge in fact. Being a Catholic means that you have a convanant relationship with God. He is our God and we are his people. To leave that is a sin as it is similar to adultry. This is the very sin that the reformers, Luther and the like, committed when they broke away. This is the same sin that the lds is party to. Leaving the lds then is actually a holy act when it leads them to the truth of Lord Jesus, blessed be his name, and come back to the convanant with God within the Catholic Church.

Just so you all know, Catholics don’t go around abusing former Catholics the way lds people go around abusing former members. That could be huge part of it. Maybe former lds people would leave the lds church alone if you all would leave them in peace. Stop sending out hate mail and perhaps people will stop denouncing you on the news.

Then you are 100% WRONG. You want to debate it we can debate. You are wrong, I can prove it to any reasonable person.

The Catholic Church claims it and it is true. Our members may fall short from time to time but our Church is Holy and perfect as Christ commands us to be.

You have ZERO priesthood. You have ZERO authority and you are 100% NOT the faith established by Lord Jesus.

You can’t even get your cannon of scriptures right and you expect us to believe that you are the One True Fatih. Come on. You have been lied to and now you are lying to us. I don’t buy it. Anyone with an IQ over 60 who looks at what you all claim about God will either laugh at you or think you need to be committed to a hopsital.

And for that millionth time mr. lds, I am not Jewish. Native Americans are NOT Jewish and we are NOT white. We are never going to be WHITE. There were ZERO white people in the Americans before the migrations 500 years ago. Lord Jesus did not found a Church in the Americas. He founded the Catholic Church and only the Catholic Church in Jerusalem with Peter as the leader.

Bible in English has the Marks of Translation. Why? because it was translated from other languages into English.

The book of moron, I mean mormon, DOES NOT HAVE the marks of translation. Why? Because it was originally written and manufactured in ENGLISH. It is an English language document from first to last.

And please, would you stop telling people that God is a created being who lives on the planet kolob. That is blaphemy.

For your info: Kolob means “the first creation.” It is the name of the planet “nearest to the celestial, or the residence of God.” It is " first in goverment, the last pertaining to the measurement of time, one day in Kolob is equal to a thousand years according to the measurement of this earth." (Abra 3:3-9)

 

[ronald_g_w]

RC_Matt
Senior Member Join Date: January 13, 2008
Location: Outer Darkness
Posts: 361

Re: Why Apostates Who Leave Mormonism Fight So Hard Against It

Quote:

Originally Posted by ronald g w
Is JESUS CHRIST the son of God is He not the firstborn of every creature?

Now, read your statement again and tell me what’s wrong with it.

Quote:
Originally Posted by ronald g w
Did God not creat the angels? = by my understanding that makes them His offspring. Will not some of us become angels?

Yes, God created the angels; and NO, none of us will become angels. Neither Christians nor Mormons teach that people become angels.

Quote:
Originally Posted by ronald g w
Are we not children of God? = that then by my understanding makes us siblings with the angles. Sorry pal but satan is your brother weather you like it or not get used to it

Yes, we are all children of God; and no, angels are not our brothers in the same context that all mankind can be viewed as being brothers. Angels are a different species of creation and serve an entirely different function in God’s plan.

 Job 1: 6

6 Now there was a day when the sons of God came to present themselves before the LORD, and Satan came also among them.

Who are these sons if not us? In the preexistence with the Lord.

  Isa. 14: 12-13

12 How art thou fallen from heaven, O Lucifer, son of the morning! how art thou cut down to the ground, which didst weaken the nations!

Satan a son of the morning ? not just a son
13 For thou hast said in thine heart, I will ascend into heaven, I will exalt my throne above the stars of God: I will sit also upon the mount of the congregation, in the sides of the north: 14 I will ascend above the heights of the clouds; I will be like the most High.
15 Yet thou shalt be brought down to hell, to the sides of the pit.
16 They that see thee shall narrowly look upon thee, and consider thee, saying, Is this the man that made the earth to tremble, that did shake kingdoms;

Satan a man. ? I thought you said he was an angel. ?
17 That made the world as a wilderness, and destroyed the cities thereof; that opened not the house of his prisoners?
18 All the kings of the nations, even all of them, lie in glory, every one in his own house. 19 But thou art cast out of thy grave like an abominable branch, and as the raiment of those that are slain, thrust through with a sword, that go down to the stones of the pit; as a carcase trodden under feet.

 

[ronald_g_w]

CONTINUED FROM #164
Job 38: 7
7 When the morning stars sang together, and all the sons of God shouted for joy?

Here again we have the sons of God with Him in the preexistence.

If satan’s curse was not to gain a physical body and remain a spirit amongst other things then what difference is he to God if God is a spirit. Jesus has a body We have bodies I would like to bring another scripture into this thought, one which we differ on, its just something to think about, we believe the ancient of days to be Adam you believe him to be God. If we are wrong and you are right then this scripture tells me that God has a body with parts He is wearing a garment and He has hair and other places Jesus has been seen sitting on his right hand either way I think LDS have something.

Dan. 7: 9, 13, 22 9 I beheld till the thrones were cast down, and the Ancient of days did sit, whose garment was white as snow, and the hair of his head like the pure wool: his throne was like the fiery flame, and his wheels as burning fire.
13 I saw in the night visions, and, behold, one like the Son of man came with the clouds of heaven, and came to the Ancient of days, and they brought him near before him. 22 Until the Ancient of days came, and judgment was given to the saints of the most High; and the time came that the saints possessed the kingdom.

Now I just can not see why the God of all Gods the father of us all would be any different to his off spring. You quote the scripture

John 10: 30 30 I and my Father are one.

What then do these scriptures mean ? that we will literally become a part of the Godhead if we are one with them –NO- simply put we must be united as they are united but separate individual beings as they are.

John 17: 11, 21 11 And now I am no more in the world, but these are in the world, and I come to thee. Holy Father, keep through thine own name those whom thou hast given me, that they may be one, as we are.
21 That they all may be one; as thou, Father, art in me, and I in thee, that they also may be one in us: that the world may believe that thou hast sent me.

In another place Jesus said you have seen me then you have seen the father, this is not claiming that he is the father because he knew exactly what his relationship with the Father was and ours.

John 20: 17, 21 17 Jesus saith unto her, Touch me not; for I am not yet ascended to my Father: but go to my brethren, and say unto them, I ascend unto my Father, and your Father; and to my God, and your God.

This has brother written all over it. IT TAKES NOTHING AWAY FROM WHO JESUS CHRIST IS AS LORD AND SAVIOR

This comes back to my first point . Jesus Christ is he not the FIRST BORN OF EVERY CREATURE ?
.
Col. 1: 15, 18
15 Who is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn of every creature:
18 And he is the head of the body, the church: who is the beginning, the firstborn from the dead; that in all things he might have the preeminence

 

[ronald_g_w]

where do you get that humans become angles? Jesus is not the first born he is the only begotten Son of the Father.

I believe what you wrote answers the question of the OP.

Is Jesus not the FIRST BORN then who is ? Because the scriptures tell me he is.

 

[AMDGtoo]

Marriage.

Oh, and it’s not just any marriage. It’s polygamy (it’s also called celestial marriage.)

The LDS message is that polygamy is to be practiced again when we die. (I guess JS thought that that’s something to look forward to, a heavenly “reward”–not just being with God.)

 

[majick275]

Polygamy isn’t necessary for exaltation in the Mormon paradigm. Just marriage.

BUT…the exaltation WILL include polygamy.

 

[ralphinal]

First Born of all Creation has dual meanings. First, Christ was the first to be given his Glorified Body.

Second, he is the only Begotten son of God, we are all adopted. He is the First Born.

 

[RebeccaJ]

Is Jesus not the FIRST BORN then who is ? Because the scriptures tell me he is.

where?

 

[ronald_g_w]

where?

Col. 1: 15, 18
15 Who is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn of every creature:
18 And he is the head of the body, the church: who is the beginning, the firstborn from the dead; that in all things he might have the preeminence

 

[AMDGtoo]

Col. 1: 15, 18
15 Who is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn of every creature:
18 And he is the head of the body, the church: who is the beginning, the firstborn from the dead; that in all things he might have the preeminence

“First born” does not mean that there are others. It’s a title. Jesus is the only begotten–not created–not adopted (like we are).

 

[ronald_g_w]

“First born” does not mean that there are others. It’s a title. Jesus is the only begotten–not created–not adopted (like we are).

29 For whom he did foreknow, he also did predestinate to be conformed to the image of his Son, that he might be the firstborn among many brethren.
30 Moreover whom he did predestinate, them he also called: and whom he called, them he also justified: and whom he justified, them he also glorified.

Please explain to me how firstborn is just a title and not the firstborn of many brethren from the above scripture when in the same breath others of Jesus’s brethren are also predestined to their seperate callings and glorified ?
Are you also going to say that predestinate and conformed mean something else other than what they state.
If you are not then this Scripture tells me that Jesus was known of the father prior to Him being foreordained to be the Savior thus making him an individual.

I also think one needs to define what one means by -not created- in light of what I’ve tried to explain

 

[scipio337]

Is Jesus not the FIRST BORN then who is ? Because the scriptures tell me he is.

“first born” gives the implication there are other literal children of G*d.

Orthodox Christianians have no belief of “pre-mortal intelligences” that were fathered by G*d and some unnamed “heavenly mother(s)”.

 

[scipio337]

29 For whom he did foreknow, he also did predestinate to be conformed to the image of his Son, that he might be the firstborn among many brethren.
30 Moreover whom he did predestinate, them he also called: and whom he called, them he also justified: and whom he justified, them he also glorified.

Please explain to me how firstborn is just a title and not the firstborn of many brethren from the above scripture when in the same breath others of Jesus’s brethren are also predestined to their seperate callings and glorified ?
Are you also going to say that predestinate and conformed mean something else other than what they state.
If you are not then this Scripture tells me that Jesus was known of the father and because of who he was God then chose Him above all others to be his firstborn.

Translation:

While man and woman were originally created in Gd’s image (Genesis 1:26-27), it is through baptism into Christ, the image of Gd (2 Cor 4:4; Col 1:15), that we are renewed according to the image of the Creator (Col 3:10).

See context, too in Rom 8:32. G*d did not give us over to death.

 

[AMDGtoo]

Not necessarily.

Oh yes it will according to the LDS Doctrines and Covenants.

 

[AMDGtoo]

No, it says that marriage is necessary. The number is irrelevant.

Haven’t read Doctrines and Covenants, Section 132:4 I see.

 

[majick275]

No, it says that marriage is necessary. The number is irrelevant.

countless LDS prophets and apostles have made this clear. the D&C does not indicate that the number is irrelevant at all. there is no requirement to practice polygamy on earth right now but the teachings are consistent that all exalted men will have multiple wives sealed to them in eternity.