Why are atheists so unhappy?

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Charles_Darwin said:
Actually it is not. Believe and knowledge are not the same.
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You are correct to say that they are not the same. They “work” together, rather.
We*** know*** what we believe in, we know by Whom ** we are loved and Who it is that we love. We are informed by knowledge of the truths that have been revealed, through experience and our senses’ intuitive grasp of reality. We know our God exists through the testimony of 90% of the world’s population, and we know that we are not “random” products of evolution. We have knowledge of the Creator through what He has created, and because of this knowledge, WE BELIEVE**!
** We** believe** what we know… we know what we believe**.
 
In Dorothy Sayer’s book *The Whimsical Christian, *she pokes some fun at secular humanists in the chapter “The Pantheon Papers.” I particularly liked her humanist ‘creed’:
Creed of St. Euthanasia
(Commonly called the Atheneum Creed)
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I believe in man, maker of himself and inventor of all science. And in myself, his manifestation, and captain of my psyche; and that I should not suffer anything painful or unpleasant.
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And in a vague, evolving deity, the future-begotten child of man; conceived by the spirit of progress, born of emergent variants; who shall kick down the ladder by which he rose and tell history to go to hell.
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Who shall some day take off from earth and be jet-propelled into the heavens; and sit exalted above all worlds, man the master almighty.
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And I believe in the spirit of progress, who spake by Shaw and the Fabians; and in a modern, administrative, ethical, and social organization; in the isolation of saints, the treatment of complexes, joy through health, and destruction of the body by cremation (with music while it burns), and then I’ve had it.
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Gabriella_San_S said:
You are correct to say that they are not the same. They “work” together, rather.
We*** know*** what we believe in, we know by Whom ** we are loved and Who it is that we love. We are informed by knowledge of the truths that have been revealed, through experience and our senses’ intuitive grasp of reality. We know our God exists through the testimony of 90% of the world’s population, and we know that we are not “random” products of evolution. We have knowledge of the Creator through what He has created, and because of this knowledge, WE BELIEVE!
** We believe**** what we know… we know what we believe.
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That rather implies that if Hinduism replaced Christianity as the dominant religion, then you would “know” that the gods of Hinduism exist.

Also, why don’t you believe in evolution? Doesn’t the Catholic Church allow for a metaphorical reading of Genesis? :confused:
 
Gabriella_San_S said:
You are correct to say that they are not the same. They “work” together, rather.
We*** know*** what we believe in, we know by Whom ** we are loved and Who it is that we love. We are informed by knowledge of the truths that have been revealed, through experience and our senses’ intuitive grasp of reality. We know our God exists through the testimony of 90% of the world’s population, and we know that we are not “random” products of evolution. We have knowledge of the Creator through what He has created, and because of this knowledge, WE BELIEVE**!
** We** believe**** what we know… we know what we believe.
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No actually you don’t know, you believe.

I agree that you *** know*** what you believe in, but you don’t know what you believe is true unless you can substantiate it.

You can believe as hard as you want but believing is NOT knowing. It does not matter how much you believe there is a god, you do not know there is one. You believe based on faith. Until there is one fact about a belief can be tested or measured that belief will remain just that, a belief. Not knowledge.
 
Gabriella_San_S said:
Wow, I’m impressed! I only have a high school education, since I dropped out of a community college after two weeks, because my poor Dad (God rest his soul) needed my loan money. I finally paid it off (the loan) 20 years later, with another loan (home equity).
Now I’m too old, tired and broke to ever go back, but I LOVE knowledge so much, that I pray for that gift from the Holy Spirit.( it*** is*** free:)) and I come to these forums to learn more!

I hope that more of my nine children will have the opportunity to go to college someday. (I have one daughter in her junior year of Nursing school at Franciscan University) But I’m really praying for vocations to the priesthood and religious life, too.:yup:
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Wow, I’m impressed, you have nine children. You must be a great mom. Although I don’t have any children of my own (not married) I work with kids and I love it. As for knowledge I probably learnt more on my own than I did at school (although the courses I took gave me a basis for much of what I know). University/college is not expensive here in Canada so I had that going for me (my parents paid most of my tuition).

p.s. I’m praying for vocations to the religious life (and priesthood) too.
 
Charles_Darwin said:
No actually you don’t know, you believe.

I agree that you *** know*** what you believe in, but you don’t know what you believe is true unless you can substantiate it.

You can believe as hard as you want but believing is NOT knowing. It does not matter how much you believe there is a god, you do not know there is one. You believe based on faith. Until there is one fact about a belief can be tested or measured that belief will remain just that, a belief. Not knowledge.
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God is not just a belief He is an unforgettable experience. And you can’t take that sort of thing away from someone no matter how hard you try.
 
RNRobert said:
Science is a good thing, but it can only answer the how, not the why. It can’t answer our deepest longings- “Why are we here?” “What is the purpose of our existence?”
Several posts back I quoted from Karl Adams book The Spirit of Catholicism. He basically said that if God could merely be solved or measured like a mathematics equation, then only the wise and clever could see Him, not the humble and pure of heart.
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That’s a wonderful way of seeing it. Surely the humble and pure of heart will be the first to see the “face” of God. God bless.
 
josie_L said:
God is not just a belief He is an unforgettable experience. And you can’t take that sort of thing away from someone no matter how hard you try.
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I’m not trying to take anything away. I am simply pointing out it is belief NOT knowledge.
 
RNRobert said:
I’m always puzzled what brings atheists and agnostics here. Not that I mind having them- I think it’s a good thing for the reason you mentioned. But I’m curious why, if they feel that strongly about the non-existence of God, they spend so much time on a religious website. Personally, in my agnostic days a forum like this would probably be the last place I’d spend my time on. But that’s just me…😉
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You can go ahead and believe that, but then the nonbelievers can go ahead and believe that theists need to come here because they doubt their faith and need to take comfort and reassurance in the fact that other people believe the things that they doubt.

On the other hand, both skeptics and believers can both see themselves and one another in such conversations as this one simply as people trying to better understand other people.
 
Shredderbeam said:
That rather implies that if Hinduism replaced Christianity as the dominant religion, then you would “know” that the gods of Hinduism exist.

Also, why don’t you believe in evolution? Doesn’t the Catholic Church allow for a metaphorical reading of Genesis? :confused:
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Actually, I was implying that only a mere 10% of the population rejects the notion of a Higher Power than themselves, however they imagine Him.
There is only One God, in Three Divine Persons, Father,** Son** and** Holy Spirit.** The Blessed** Trinity.** And one Day, all those who worship God (whoever they presume** Him** to be) will see Him as He is…the same yesterday, today and forever in the Kingdom! The Alpha and the Omega and the Savior of the World!

As a Catholic, I believe in Intelligent Design, not the random spontaneity of evolution, devoid of a Creator…but that the* theory * of evolution can be compatible with a Creator’s Intelligent Design.
 
Leela said:
You can go ahead and believe that, but then the nonbelievers can go ahead and believe that theists need to come here because they doubt their faith and need to take comfort and reassurance in the fact that other people believe the things that they doubt.

On the other hand, both skeptics and believers can both see themselves and one another in such conversations as this one simply as people trying to better understand other people.
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All of the above are true! Thank you, friend.🙂
 
Joan_of_Bark said:
If this thread is coming to an end I will make just one last comment and then shut up (I promise!).

Christians would have more success in converting non-Christians if they practised more and preached less. Actions speak louder than words.
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The bottom line is regardless of what Christians do most people who have walked away from theism on intellectual grounds will never be converted back.

Sure, they can probably convert people who were never Christian in the first place, or those who turned away from religion for reasons other than intellectual objection.

However, Christianity (or any religion) has no selling point with intellectual objectors. We know it’s not true … and for theists (at least adherents to all the Abrahamic religions) faith is paramount.
 
Gabriella_San_S said:
How do*** you*** know? Can you*** prove*** it ?
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merriam-webster.com/dictionary/belief
merriam-webster.com/dictionary/knowledge
Gabriella_San_S said:
Actually, I was implying that only a mere 10% of the population rejects the notion of a Higher Power than themselves, however they imagine Him.
There is only One God, in Three Divine Persons, Father,** Son** and** Holy Spirit.** The Blessed** Trinity.** And one Day, all those who worship God (whoever they presume** Him** to be) will see Him as He is…the same yesterday, today and forever in the Kingdom! The Alpha and the Omega and the Savior of the World!
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All right, and if the majority of the world’s population were atheists?
Gabriella San:
As a Catholic, I believe in Intelligent Design, not the random spontaneity of evolution, devoid of a Creator…but that the* theory * of evolution can be compatible with a Creator’s Intelligent Design.
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Ah, ok.
 
might I suggest that you cannot have a productive discussion on the merits of theism with theists. At the end of the day they believe just because. They don’t rely on logic or reason (the only logical argument I’ve ever heard that makes even a shred of sense is the causation argument i.e. Aristotelian metaphysics).
 
josie_L said:
So you can’t gain knowledge through experience, i.e., I have experienced God therefore I have knowledge that he exists?
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it’s more likely that you think you have experienced God but are just delusional in actuality
 
jibbler said:
it’s more likely that you think you have experienced God but are just delusional in actuality
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Well, geez louise, I’ve been called bigoted, insane, and now delusional (all by atheists), and why, because I believe in God. 👍
 
josie_L said:
So you can’t gain knowledge through experience, i.e., I have experienced God therefore I have knowledge that he exists?
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That is not how knowledge works. Human testimony is one of the lest reliable sources of evidence.

I have know doubt you believe there is a god, but then millions believed in Zeus. What you all have in common is you cannot substantiate that belief. Just because you believe you have experience god does not mean you actually have conclusive knowledge it exists. Surly you must realise that?

Do you therefore think every god that has ever been experience by man exists? I’m sure you don’t. I have no issue with your belief god exists, but it is not knowledge.
 
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