Why are Catholics often this way?

[luvlife]

.

But glad this forum gave you a chance to brag about how much you know. That was your point, right?

ouch.

Are you joking? It’s hard to tell…

I didn’t get the feeling that the OP was bragging at all. Based on the # of pages in this thread, obviously it’s a valid question.

 

[RebeccaJ]

People are “this way”, not just Catholics. You have stated yourself that Jews who converted to Catholicism really didn’t know Judaism all that well to begin with.

As a person who was raised as a Mormon, I see Mormons come here quite regularly who don’t know their own faith.

As a convert to Catholicism, I believe I was catechized pretty well in RCIA. However, I know I have forgotten things already and I have to keep reading and reading.

It takes effort and will to understand one’s own religion, and most children find religious education B.o.r.i.n.g. And most adults don’t find the time.

As to learning another religion, people generally don’t bother to learn their own faith, let alone the myriads of other faiths out there.

 

[pjn6444]

The reason that many Catholics are ignorant of their faith is because of laziness. Parents are too lazy to teach their children, priests are too lazy to teach their parishioners, and people are too lazy to learn. I would say, however, more mainstream protestants are ignorant of their faith then Catholics. Among protestants it is very common for them not to know what any of the differences are between different denominations. It is a problem of size also. In a large religion it is harder to ensure orthodoxy of the faithful. However, your initial question is far too generalizing. Go ask some mainstream protestants what they believe and how it is different than other denominations. See how many of them answer beyond that they believe in the Trinity, the Bible, the incarnation, salvation, and the other things shared among almost all Christians.

 

[Lapell]

And, HashemEchad, have YOU always Judaism as well? Being a member of a distinct people called the Jewish people may have “helped”, especially through all the persecutions and injustices that you had to face just because you are Jews (or from a Jewish family)… Well, I know some tried to obliterate their Jewishness, most usually to no avail…

 

[HollyDolly]

:harp: hard to say really.My parents grew up in the 20s and 30s
and were taught by nuns,and I think things were different back in their day. my dad later on attended Marquette University and studied apologetics with the Jesuits there.I fortunately took CCD class with the Brigidine Sisters at St.Paul’s in San Antonio and the sisters were very good.They were my inspiration to want to be an nun,though in later life due to my mother being sick and my dad too in old age,never got to the convent.

as far as other religions were concerned,we moved around since my dad worked in USAF military intelligence,and lived on okinawa
so were exposed to Buddhists.As far as Jews were concerned,both my parents had exposure to them.My mom had a jewish boyfriend,Harold,and my dad grew up in Milwaukee and went to school with jews and the family knew quite a few.
In fact, the family could even speak Yiddish.I recall daddy saying if you could speak German, ( family’s native tongue) you could learn Yiddish.
Momma’s obstetricion in Buffalo ,Ny where I was born was Dr.Reisman.I’m sure I’m misspelling his name. He was an expert on obsterics and also social dieases. He was also daddy said on the State of New York Medical Board. He ran a free clinic for the lower middle class and poor down on Gennesse Street near where my mother worked.He funded it out of his own pocket according to my dad,and they thought he was a very kind and caring person.

I try to read different books on the faith,haven’t read the Confessions of St.Augustine, but had in the past read Introduction to the Devout Life by St.Francis De Sales.
I even enjoy learning about the Cathars and some of the early heresies because I love history.
Alot of people weren’t as fortunate as you and I. They have never traveled ,nor gotten I guess to meet peoples of other faiths.
When I see the Mormons running around town on their bicycles,I think,why don’t we Catholics do the same?
There are a few communities of sisters who do home visits,
but not enough.Would be good experience for seminarians.

 

[angelusm]

I didn’t know where else to post this, and I TRULY DO NOT wish to offend anyone, but I have made an observation over the last 48 years of my life that puzzles and saddens me.

As a religious Jew, I have spent my entire life studying other religions, as well as my own. I have met with many religious authorities, studied many religions, all in an effort not to be like a few Catholic girls who beat me up as a child, saying to me, “You killed Our Lord”. I never wanted to be as ignorant of the religions of others as they evidently were of not only mine, but their own.

I have met many knowledgeable Protestants, Catholics, Jews, Buddhists, Hindus and others in my life, but one thing I have observed time and again: many Catholics not only are totally ignorant of the religions of others, but also of their own. WHY is this?

To give one example, a woman I knew years ago in the pro-life movement insisted to me that the immaculate conception was the Catholic belief that when Mary conceived Jesus, she was a virgin.

I explained to her that that belief is called the virgin birth. I told her that the belief of the immaculate conception is the belief that when MARY was conceived in HER mother’s womb, she was free of original sin. I then explained that that is what the meaning is of the words on the miraculous medal seen in a vision by Catherine Laboure.

She insisted she was right and I was wrong. I finally told her to ask her priest. She called a few days later to apologize, that I was right.

HOW can so many Catholics be so ignorant of not only the faiths of others, but esp. their own?

I realize not everyone can be a religious scholar, but I thought the Catholic church had catechism classes, parochial schools, etc

My own mother was a convert to Orthodox Judaism from Catholicism, and she had attended Catholic school as a child as well. Yet she misled me for many years, telling me that Catholics do not believe Jesus is god, but SON of God. I didn’t learn what Catholics actually believed on that until I was a teenager, and began studying all religions (I went on to get a degree in comparative religion as well.)

Can anyone explain this to me?

I am not ignorant of my own religion and I know that we can be saved through Jesus’ name. That’s why I pray every day for the conversion of Jews. If there is ignorance there has to be done something about it, it’s obvious. Luckily we know what to believe in. Unlike Protestants or Jews who cannot agree on such important issues like homosexualism or abortion.

The link on the bottom of your post was quite interesting. We could discuss for hours about the Messiah, but I’d like to mention just a few points:

Gather all Jews back to the Land of Israel - Are you trying to tell me that Messiah will get rid of Palestianins? And will bring all Jews (also Jews-atheists, Jews-buddhists, etc.?) from every single country in this world to Israel? What about half-Jews? What about non-Jews converted to Judaism? What about Jews who don’t want to move to Israel?

Jesus was not a prophet. Prophecy can only exist in Israel when the land is inhabited by a majority of world Jewry - Is 50% + 1 Jew enough? Why don’t some Jews move to Israel so that you could have a prophet?
Prophecies are still present for example in the Charismatic renewal even if there are no Jews present. You can easily find info about the gift of prophesying (+ the gift of tongues and others).
It looks like God doesn’t care too much about Jewish opinion on prophesying.

GOD AS THREE? - If you really studied Catholicism you HAVE TO know we believe in ONE God, although in Trinity.

MAN AS GOD? - I’m afraid Maimonides cannot influence the nature of God and cannot change it. God is as he is no matter what Maimonides thinks about him.

Jews have never actively sought converts to Judaism - that’s a lie. Most of modern “Jews” are not Jews. They are descendants of Khazars (Ashkenazi “Jews”), a Turkic tribe that accepted Judaism in the Middle Ages.
etc.

I’m sorry but you (or those who created the website you recommend) offend the reason and had not enough wish to properly understand the Catholic teaching.

 

[Gottle_of_Geer]

I didn’t know where else to post this, and I TRULY DO NOT wish to offend anyone, but I have made an observation over the last 48 years of my life that puzzles and saddens me.

As a religious Jew, I have spent my entire life studying other religions, as well as my own. I have met with many religious authorities, studied many religions, all in an effort not to be like a few Catholic girls who beat me up as a child, saying to me, “You killed Our Lord”. I never wanted to be as ignorant of the religions of others as they evidently were of not only mine, but their own.

I have met many knowledgeable Protestants, Catholics, Jews, Buddhists, Hindus and others in my life, but one thing I have observed time and again: many Catholics not only are totally ignorant of the religions of others, but also of their own. WHY is this?

To give one example, a woman I knew years ago in the pro-life movement insisted to me that the immaculate conception was the Catholic belief that when Mary conceived Jesus, she was a virgin.

I explained to her that that belief is called the virgin birth. I told her that the belief of the immaculate conception is the belief that when MARY was conceived in HER mother’s womb, she was free of original sin. I then explained that that is what the meaning is of the words on the miraculous medal seen in a vision by Catherine Laboure.

She insisted she was right and I was wrong. I finally told her to ask her priest. She called a few days later to apologize, that I was right.

HOW can so many Catholics be so ignorant of not only the faiths of others, but esp. their own?

I realize not everyone can be a religious scholar, but I thought the Catholic church had catechism classes, parochial schools, etc

My own mother was a convert to Orthodox Judaism from Catholicism, and she had attended Catholic school as a child as well. Yet she misled me for many years, telling me that Catholics do not believe Jesus is god, but SON of God. I didn’t learn what Catholics actually believed on that until I was a teenager, and began studying all religions (I went on to get a degree in comparative religion as well.)

Can anyone explain this to me?

**The results one gets from one’s sample depend on the size of the sample: ask a few hundred dogmatic theologians, & you would probably obtain very different results - especially if the sample were from 50 different countries. **​

One thing that is very noticeable is that stereotypes are gained from limited samples, then applied to other limited samples. There is no way of avoiding this - other than by being aware that one’s sample may be unrepresentative of the entire group sampled.

**Catholics are not alone in being ignorant of other religions. Many Catholics are well-informed on other religions. As for ignorance of their own religion, why is that surprising ? Religious ignorance is plentiful in other churches, unfortunately. ****A lot depends on how well one is taught, how receptive one is, & on comparable variables; even on the language used. Teachers who are themselves not well-taught are not well-equipped to hand on to others what they have not really received themselves. This is not a problem that began only in the last forty years or so. **

 

[HashemEchad]

Thanks to those who replied along the lines of the topic of this thread (to those who posted conversionary messages, no I am not interested in belonging to any religion but Judaism, thank you very much, end of that discussion in this thread.)

I realize some of you blame Vatican 2 for the situation that is the topic of this thread. As a person who is of a very traditional mindset (albeit not the Catholic variety), I understand how you feel, and I too would like to lay the blame there.

But I have met many older Catholics and older ex-Catholics (like my mom), who didn’t know much about their religious beliefs either, and they were schooled before Vatican 2.

I have read the Baltimore Catechism (I own a copy of #1, #2, #3 which I’ve used for my comparative religion studies). I agree it is very solid on the Catholic religion.

I’ve also studied Ludwig Ott’s Fundamentals of Catholic Dogma, as well as other works, such as the Catechism of Trent.

I have met knowledgeable Catholics, but lately its been the more uneducated variety, I just didn’t know what the cause of it was.

 

[PaulDupre]

Dear HashemEchad,

I am so sorry that you so shamefully treated by those who should recognize the Jews as “our elder brothers in the faith” as we Catholics say. Those who hold negative attitudes toward Jewish people are obviously ignorant of the bible, the Catholic faith, and the debt we owe to our elder brothers.

It has been my experience that the vast majority of adherents to any religion are largely ignorant of its teachings. This cuts across all denominational lines. I am sad to say that Catholicism is no different.

On a more positive note, I have seen over the last several years a much greater interest among people of all faiths in delving into the scriptures and into the history of their religions. As I talk to people who have converted to the Catholic faith, this is nearly always the story I get:

“I suddenly felt the need to study my faith and really get to know it. The more I studied, the more inconsistencies I found. These inconsistencies were resolved when I began to study the Catholic faith.”

To my mind this explains the current explosion of conversion and re-version to Catholicism. Those who are coming into the Church are studying their way in.

God be with us all,
Paul

 

[Antegin]

For all the Vatican II bashing that goes on in the forum, the answer to this problem was addressed in INTER MIRIFICA:
Decree on the Media of the Social Communications

The laity, too, who have something to do with the use of these media, should endeavor to bear witness to Christ, first of all by carrying out their individual duties or office expertly and with an apostolic spirit, and, further, by being of direct help in the pastoral activity of the Church-to the best of their ability-through their technical, economic, cultural and artistic talents.

and

Importantly, laymen ought to be afforded technical, doctrinal and moral training. For this purpose, the number of school faculties and institutes should be increased, where newsmen, writers for screen, radio and television and all other interested parties can obtain a sound training that is imbued with the Christian spirit, especially with respect to the social teaching of the Church.

And in LUMEN GENTIUM:
Dogmatic Constitution on the Church

The holy people of God shares also in Christ’s prophetic office; it spreads abroad a living witness to Him, especially by means of a life of faith and charity and by offering to God a sacrifice of praise, the tribute of lips which give praise to His name.(110) The entire body of the faithful, anointed as they are by the Holy One,(111) cannot err in matters of belief. They manifest this special property by means of the whole peoples’ supernatural discernment in matters of faith when “from the Bishops down to the last of the lay faithful”

Pastors of the Church, following the example of the Lord, should minister to one another and to the other faithful. These in their turn should enthusiastically lend their joint assistance to their pastors and teachers. Thus in their diversity all bear witness to the wonderful unity in the Body of Christ.

1. Each individual layman must stand before the world as a witness to the resurrection and life of the Lord Jesus and a symbol of the living God. All the laity as a community and each one according to his ability must nourish the world with spiritual fruits.(212) They must diffuse in the world that spirit which animates the poor, the meek, the peace makers-whom the Lord in the Gospel proclaimed as blessed.(213) In a word, “Christians must be to the world what the soul is to the body.”(9*)

And finally in APOSTOLICAM ACTUOSITATEM
Decree on the Apostolate of the Laity the Church admonishes

Our own times require of the laity no less zeal: in fact, modern conditions demand that their apostolate be broadened and intensified.

AD GENTES
Decree on the Mission Activity of the Church

But it is not enough that the Christian people be present and be organized in a given nation, nor is it enough to carry out an apostolate by way of example. They are organized for this purpose, they are present for this, to announce Christ to their non - Christian fellow - citizens by word and example, and to aid them toward the full reception of Christ.

You asked, Why are Catholics often this way?

Over and over again, the Catholic faithful are called to evangelize. Yet, the Catholic laity is largely uneducated in holy matters (except for what we get from 7th day adventists, and Mormon missionaries whose philosphies are rife with error) there is no organization of the evangelization effort (unlike the Mormons who have an incredible evangilization mechanism which is why their error are so widespread) and there’s the pervasive fallacy that one’s faith is a private matter because if you really have faith it starts from the inside (contrary to Christ’s teaching that you would not take a candle and hide it under a basket…)

The answer to your questions is that Lay Catholics leave the responsibility of evangelization at the rectory doorstep contrary to ancient and the most contemporary Church teachings.

 

[po18guy]

Quite simply, it is the “cultural Catholics” that have not been catechized who say such things. It is this lack of proper catechesis that causes so much confusion and division. It is our failure, as Catholics, to police our own. Now, as an observant Jew, you surely can identify with the sense of guilt that attaches here! Seriously, we have a lot of education to accomplish, as a lot of complacency has caused exactly what you have observed. But, as with Judaism, thousands of years have lead to thousands of rumors, gossip and just plain nonsense creeping in.

Shalom, my elder in the L-rd G-d of Israel.

 

[Calliope]

when I was growing up, I was taught that “being” Catholic was the most important thing. And you showed how Catholic you were not by what you knew or professed, but by what you did. So I learned that it was important to say certain prayers, attend Mass, confession, have holy cards, religious paintings and statues, etc. Because those were Catholic things, that is how Catholics looked and behaved.

Explanation of “why” was a bit shakier. Many things were explained as mysteries and said to be a sign of how wonderful our God was that He provided these means for us.

I did attend Catholic school for 12 years, and was interested in religion and our faith and did much outside study and reading, but the emphasis was on “acting” Catholic, not knowing the faith from my family and educators. It was considered a culture we were trying to preserve, much like ethnic families hanging onto their culture from the old country. Catholic kids who did not attend Parochial school went to CCD on Sat mornings the way the Polish, Greek and Lithuanian kids went to their ethnic classes on Sat.

I recall learning to sing Latin prayers and hymns in choir, but no one bothering to translate the hymns so we knew the meaning of what we were singing (the prayers, of course, we also knew the English to)

I don’t know what the cause of this was, but I do know that behavior was much emphasized over knowledge and understanding.

Calliope

 

[Valke2]

Since we are assuming facts based on generalities and personal experience, I think that there are just as many Jews (percentage wise) that are ignorant of many dogmas and traditions of Judaism as there are Christians ignorant of theirs.

 

[Ronald_E]

Dear HashemEchad,
In the 40 years that I had left the Catholic faith and since returning three years ago, it has been clear to me that those who influence us the most in our youth give us the sense of what meaning our faith has in their lives. Jesus warned us not to be lukewarm. He also warned us not to be afraid or to be hard-hearted. He told us to love one another as He has loved us. He clearly stated that we must be careful not to harm the little ones. These warnings clearly state how fragile we are as developing human beings and how we can be misled if the truth is not given to us with love.
If our caretakers are angry, afraid or lacking in expressions of love in their relationship with us then our sense of our faith will reflect their disposition towards us and the faith.
It was only through God’s Grace that I returned to Catholicism at the age of 58 three years ago. Grace, that I did not ask for, freed me from the influence of those who did not have a passionate love of our Catholic faith. Grace enabled the Sacraments that I had received as a child to suface to my awareness and enabled me to see how these sacraments had continued to guide me towards God without my knowledge all the years I had rejected Him.
The little I had learned in childhood about Catholicism did not influence me to return to Catholicism. I went to eastern philosophy and meditation, psychology and analysis, back reading the Bible, then Christianity and finally home again to Catholicism. Now I see God working through all and in all making it possible for all to know Him.
Since God is Love, we can only begin to know God when we are children through loving teachers. I have to stop now. Thank you for sparking this discussion.

 

[Lapell]

:harp:
There are a few communities of sisters who do home visits,
but not enough.Would be good experience for seminarians.

Those sisters probably were from the Sisters of Charity who do visits to the sick and the poor.

 

[Jimmy_B]

So far on this thread -

Me - 60
Ignorant - 40
Blame -38
Good - 7
Charity -2
Forgive -0
Forgiveness -0
God Bless You -0

I’m sorry… I’m not going to join the blame game…just keeping score…

Peace

 

[JRKH]

Dear HashemEchad,
In the 40 years that I had left the Catholic faith and since returning three years ago, it has been clear to me that those who influence us the most in our youth give us the sense of what meaning our faith has in their lives. Jesus warned us not to be lukewarm. He also warned us not to be afraid or to be hard-hearted. He told us to love one another as He has loved us. He clearly stated that we must be careful not to harm the little ones. These warnings clearly state how fragile we are as developing human beings and how we can be misled if the truth is not given to us with love.
If our caretakers are angry, afraid or lacking in expressions of love in their relationship with us then our sense of our faith will reflect their disposition towards us and the faith.
It was only through God’s Grace that I returned to Catholicism at the age of 58 three years ago. Grace, that I did not ask for, freed me from the influence of those who did not have a passionate love of our Catholic faith. Grace enabled the Sacraments that I had received as a child to suface to my awareness and enabled me to see how these sacraments had continued to guide me towards God without my knowledge all the years I had rejected Him.
The little I had learned in childhood about Catholicism did not influence me to return to Catholicism. I went to eastern philosophy and meditation, psychology and analysis, back reading the Bible, then Christianity and finally home again to Catholicism. Now I see God working through all and in all making it possible for all to know Him.
Since God is Love, we can only begin to know God when we are children through loving teachers. I have to stop now. Thank you for sparking this discussion.

Well Said

 

[Calliope]

So far on this thread -

Me - 60
Ignorant - 40
Blame -38
Good - 7
Charity -2
Forgive -0
Forgiveness -0
God Bless You -0

I’m sorry… I’m not going to join the blame game…just keeping score…

Peace

I don’t understand what this means, I don’t understand what you are keeping score of, or what your catagories mean.

It is a discussion of a real situation, not a “blame game”. It is addressing a situation and seeking causes/reasons, not unlike many threads started by you on this forum, recognizing a situation, and seeking possible causes and explanations.

Calliope

 

[Ronald_E]

Jimmy B, Your response to attempts to understand a situation with compassion gives me a sense of hardness in your heart. Christ was never stern with anyone except those who were responsible for teaching the faith.
He had compassion for those who were victims of people with hard hearts. I am deeply disturbed by your response to this discussion. Perhaps you provide the answer to the question in this thread with your response.

 

[blossom02]

I think that what ever I should have learned about my faith when I was young was due to my own laziness. The facts of our faith have always been out there. I just got caught up in the world and didn’t get interrested until I accepted the grace of God to do more about it.

I as many others fell into the cracks of the secular world.