Why are Catholics often this way?

[rinnie]

In Jewish thought, “messiah” does not mean deity, or God. We believe, and have always believed, that the Messiah would be a mortal man, sent BY God to deliver the Jewish people physically and spiritually. Only Christians equate “messiah” with deity.

The word “Mashiach” (messiah) in Hebrew means “anointed one”. That’s it. In the Bible, King David, King Saul and King Solomon were all called “messiah” because they had been anointed as kings.

There is no record in the NT of Jesus being anointed, though I know Christians interpret the descent of the Holy Spirit in the form of a dove, as “counting” for that.

Ok Please understand this is the post i was talking about when i said you still deny Jesus, i wasnt trying to be mean. But isnt that what you are saying (beating around the bush)? If I came off as being angry i didnt mean to. What i meant is Jesus did everything that the ot said the Messiah would. Jesus didnt reveal himself at the beginning to anyone. And Jesus was sent by God, and he did deliver the Jewish people physically and spiritually, but the jewish people turned their back on Jesus, correct? And all im saying is that he still according to the jewish faith is not considered God. Thats all i meant. Im not saying that you are wrong to believe what you believe, Im just saying that according to our faith you are thats all. BUt what i guess i was asking to be honest and didnt do it right the first time was according to your first paragraph Jesus was a man, and he did everything you said, Rather we call him Messiah or not, who cares, But what my point is, You disagree with the decent of the Holy Spirit as not being anointing. okay then what do you think that the decent of the Holy Spirit meant. Thats all.

 

[HashemEchad]

But if you were so strong in your faith why would you ever study other faiths, in the catholic faith we have no need to study other faiths why would we waste our time. We study and learn one faith.

I have a degree in comparative religion, and have been active in the ecumenical movement for 30 years.

Its called UNDERSTANDING. Its important for people to UNDERSTAND other religions, even when they do not AGREE with them.

It tends to lead toward mutual cooperation and helps reduce the hatreds that have flared in history due to religious bigotry.

This is why YOUR church is ALSO very active in ecumenical relations.

Have you ever heard of Nostra Aetate, a document of Vatican 2? Maybe you should check it out.

 

[HashemEchad]

Thank you Bud, its just i am so tired of people attacking Jesus and our Church, Maybe im getting too defensive at times, but sometimes i feel its me the Pope and Jesus against the world. And if i dont stick up for Jesus i feel like they are crucifiying him all over again. I just dont know what more he can do. He gave everything for us. his own life. And i know i need to find a better way with my words sometimes, but i cant always find them. But hey, pray for me, and sometimes i do real good. God Bless. I guess today was just a bad day.

I can’t speak for anyone else you may have met, but do you understand I am not attacking your religion just because I do not personally agree with it?

It is possible to STUDY a religion in an attempt to UNDERSTAND how your co-workers, neighbors, etc believe, without the need to JOIN that religion?

If Catholicism works for you, GREAT! STAY Catholic. Be as Catholic as you want. That’s what God wants for you, if it makes you happy.

But each person needs to find their own path in life, and for me, it is traditional Judaism.

Why is that so threatening to you? I don’t understand. I’m not trying to convert you to my religion, so why do you care?

 

[HashemEchad]

Ok Please understand this is the post i was talking about when i said you still deny Jesus, i wasnt trying to be mean. But isnt that what you are saying (beating around the bush)? If I came off as being angry i didnt mean to. What i meant is Jesus did everything that the ot said the Messiah would. Jesus didnt reveal himself at the beginning to anyone. And Jesus was sent by God, and he did deliver the Jewish people physically and spiritually, but the jewish people turned their back on Jesus, correct? And all im saying is that he still according to the jewish faith is not considered God. Thats all i meant. Im not saying that you are wrong to believe what you believe, Im just saying that according to our faith you are thats all. BUt what i guess i was asking to be honest and didnt do it right the first time was according to your first paragraph Jesus was a man, and he did everything you said, Rather we call him Messiah or not, who cares, But what my point is, You disagree with the decent of the Holy Spirit as not being anointing. okay then what do you think that the decent of the Holy Spirit meant. Thats all.

I think I’m beginning to get a grasp on how the rabbis in the Middle Ages felt, when the bishops ordered them to appear at the local church to engage in “disputations” (a lose-lose situation for the rabbis.)

When you confront us as Jews and demand to know WHY we do not believe in Jesus, we are then in a delicate situation.

If we explain to you why we do not believe (because, after all, you DID ask us, remember?), we are then accused of “attacking Jesus”, which we were not doing, even if you took it that way.

I honstly do not know any way to reply to the original question, without having some Christians get defensive and accused us of attacking their faith.

Explaining why we do not believe is not attacking your religion. It is only showing why WE do not believe. It does NOT mean YOU should not believe.

The post of mine who you took great offense to was a RESPONSE to someone else (maybe it was you, I forget) asking me why Jews do not believe.

I am very, very secure in what I believe, which is why I do not get defensive and angry. When a person gets defensive and angry, it makes me think they are insecure in their own belief.

When you are CERTAIN in your faith, you feel no need to get angry. I’ve learned that much in the 30 years I have been involved in interreligious discussions.

But do not be upset that we Jews do not “accept Jesus”, We also don’t “accept” Buddha, Krishna, Zoroaster, or ANY OTHER non-Jewish deity. We’re not singling out Jesus; we don’t accept ANY of them!

 

[planter654]

I didn’t know where else to post this, and I TRULY DO NOT wish to offend anyone, but I have made an observation over the last 48 years of my life that puzzles and saddens me.

As a religious Jew, I have spent my entire life studying other religions, as well as my own. I have met with many religious authorities, studied many religions, all in an effort not to be like a few Catholic girls who beat me up as a child, saying to me, “You killed Our Lord”. I never wanted to be as ignorant of the religions of others as they evidently were of not only mine, but their own.

I have met many knowledgeable Protestants, Catholics, Jews, Buddhists, Hindus and others in my life, but one thing I have observed time and again: many Catholics not only are totally ignorant of the religions of others, but also of their own. WHY is this?

To give one example, a woman I knew years ago in the pro-life movement insisted to me that the immaculate conception was the Catholic belief that when Mary conceived Jesus, she was a virgin.

I explained to her that that belief is called the virgin birth. I told her that the belief of the immaculate conception is the belief that when MARY was conceived in HER mother’s womb, she was free of original sin. I then explained that that is what the meaning is of the words on the miraculous medal seen in a vision by Catherine Laboure.

She insisted she was right and I was wrong. I finally told her to ask her priest. She called a few days later to apologize, that I was right.

HOW can so many Catholics be so ignorant of not only the faiths of others, but esp. their own?

I realize not everyone can be a religious scholar, but I thought the Catholic church had catechism classes, parochial schools, etc

My own mother was a convert to Orthodox Judaism from Catholicism, and she had attended Catholic school as a child as well. Yet she misled me for many years, telling me that Catholics do not believe Jesus is god, but SON of God. I didn’t learn what Catholics actually believed on that until I was a teenager, and began studying all religions (I went on to get a degree in comparative religion as well.)

Can anyone explain this to me?

May I ask you then what you are saying is that the birth itself of Mary from her mothers womb----is what is called the Virgin Birth for she was born without sin. So how do you define Jesus birth. mary and Joseph?

thank you

 

[planter654]

I can’t speak for anyone else you may have met, but do you understand I am not attacking your religion just because I do not personally agree with it?

It is possible to STUDY a religion in an attempt to UNDERSTAND how your co-workers, neighbors, etc believe, without the need to JOIN that religion?

If Catholicism works for you, GREAT! STAY Catholic. Be as Catholic as you want. That’s what God wants for you, if it makes you happy.

But each person needs to find their own path in life, and for me, it is traditional Judaism.

Why is that so threatening to you? I don’t understand. I’m not trying to convert you to my religion, so why do you care?

Jesus follow the Judaism faith did he not. Your sabbath is on a Sat. still?

God Bless

 

[planter654]

I can’t speak for anyone else you may have met, but do you understand I am not attacking your religion just because I do not personally agree with it?

It is possible to STUDY a religion in an attempt to UNDERSTAND how your co-workers, neighbors, etc believe, without the need to JOIN that religion?

If Catholicism works for you, GREAT! STAY Catholic. Be as Catholic as you want. That’s what God wants for you, if it makes you happy.

But each person needs to find their own path in life, and for me, it is traditional Judaism.

Why is that so threatening to you? I don’t understand. I’m not trying to convert you to my religion, so why do you care?

Jesus follow the Judaism faith did he not. Your sabbath is on a Sat. still?

God Bless

 

[planter654]

I can’t speak for anyone else you may have met, but do you understand I am not attacking your religion just because I do not personally agree with it?

It is possible to STUDY a religion in an attempt to UNDERSTAND how your co-workers, neighbors, etc believe, without the need to JOIN that religion?

If Catholicism works for you, GREAT! STAY Catholic. Be as Catholic as you want. That’s what God wants for you, if it makes you happy.

But each person needs to find their own path in life, and for me, it is traditional Judaism.

Why is that so threatening to you? I don’t understand. I’m not trying to convert you to my religion, so why do you care?

Jesus follow the Judaism faith did he not. Your sabbath is on a Sat. still?

God Bless

 

[planter654]

I can’t speak for anyone else you may have met, but do you understand I am not attacking your religion just because I do not personally agree with it?

It is possible to STUDY a religion in an attempt to UNDERSTAND how your co-workers, neighbors, etc believe, without the need to JOIN that religion?

If Catholicism works for you, GREAT! STAY Catholic. Be as Catholic as you want. That’s what God wants for you, if it makes you happy.

But each person needs to find their own path in life, and for me, it is traditional Judaism.

Why is that so threatening to you? I don’t understand. I’m not trying to convert you to my religion, so why do you care?

Jesus follow the Judaism faith did he not. Your sabbath is on a Sat. still?

God Bless

 

[planter654]

I am not ignorant of my own religion and I know that we can be saved through Jesus’ name. That’s why I pray every day for the conversion of Jews. If there is ignorance there has to be done something about it, it’s obvious. Luckily we know what to believe in. Unlike Protestants or Jews who cannot agree on such important issues like homosexualism or abortion.

The link on the bottom of your post was quite interesting. We could discuss for hours about the Messiah, but I’d like to mention just a few points:

Gather all Jews back to the Land of Israel - Are you trying to tell me that Messiah will get rid of Palestianins? And will bring all Jews (also Jews-atheists, Jews-buddhists, etc.?) from every single country in this world to Israel? What about half-Jews? What about non-Jews converted to Judaism? What about Jews who don’t want to move to Israel?

Jesus was not a prophet. Prophecy can only exist in Israel when the land is inhabited by a majority of world Jewry - Is 50% + 1 Jew enough? Why don’t some Jews move to Israel so that you could have a prophet?
Prophecies are still present for example in the Charismatic renewal even if there are no Jews present. You can easily find info about the gift of prophesying (+ the gift of tongues and others).
It looks like God doesn’t care too much about Jewish opinion on prophesying.

GOD AS THREE? - If you really studied Catholicism you HAVE TO know we believe in ONE God, although in Trinity.

MAN AS GOD? - I’m afraid Maimonides cannot influence the nature of God and cannot change it. God is as he is no matter what Maimonides thinks about him.

Jews have never actively sought converts to Judaism - that’s a lie. Most of modern “Jews” are not Jews. They are descendants of Khazars (Ashkenazi “Jews”), a Turkic tribe that accepted Judaism in the Middle Ages.
etc.

I’m sorry but you (or those who created the website you recommend) offend the reason and had not enough wish to properly understand the Catholic teaching.

Khazars ( Ashkenazi) came from the “Ten lost tribes of Israel.” They were captives of many nations around them. The country’s where they were held capitves in, changed their names–which led to “Israel’s lost Identity”.

Romans called them Gauls or Celts. Others Cimmerii, Scythian, Kymrians or Kimrians, Crimea where name by the Greek (Persians) called them Sacae. The word Sacae or Sakae is ultimately derived from Isaac.

God Bless

 

[JRKH]

I think I’m beginning to get a grasp on how the rabbis in the Middle Ages felt, when the bishops ordered them to appear at the local church to engage in “disputations” (a lose-lose situation for the rabbis.)

When you confront us as Jews and demand to know WHY we do not believe in Jesus, we are then in a delicate situation.

If we explain to you why we do not believe (because, after all, you DID ask us, remember?), we are then accused of “attacking Jesus”, which we were not doing, even if you took it that way.

I honstly do not know any way to reply to the original question, without having some Christians get defensive and accused us of attacking their faith.

Explaining why we do not believe is not attacking your religion. It is only showing why WE do not believe. It does NOT mean YOU should not believe.

The post of mine who you took great offense to was a RESPONSE to someone else (maybe it was you, I forget) asking me why Jews do not believe.

I am very, very secure in what I believe, which is why I do not get defensive and angry. When a person gets defensive and angry, it makes me think they are insecure in their own belief.

When you are CERTAIN in your faith, you feel no need to get angry. I’ve learned that much in the 30 years I have been involved in interreligious discussions.

But do not be upset that we Jews do not “accept Jesus”, We also don’t “accept” Buddha, Krishna, Zoroaster, or ANY OTHER non-Jewish deity. We’re not singling out Jesus; we don’t accept ANY of them!

I watched an interesting program on PBS last night regarding the faith of Judism and Christianity. It was very informative in regards to the similarities and differences in the faiths and I would recommend it to others if they get the chance to watch it.
At one point, I believe it was a Jewish professor, the commentator was speaking of the coming of the Messiah. He stated that when the Messiah/Jesus comes (or comes back) It will be to establish the earthly Kingdom. The Jews will recognize it as the first coming and the Christians will see it as the second coming, and both will be right in their belief.
His comment really stems from the differing views on the mission of the Messiah: The Christian view of the Heavenly kingdom and the Jewish view of the resoration of isreal and an earthly kingdom.

I think he may well be right.

Peace
James

 

[rinnie]

I have a degree in comparative religion, and have been active in the ecumenical movement for 30 years.

Its called UNDERSTANDING. Its important for people to UNDERSTAND other religions, even when they do not AGREE with them.

It tends to lead toward mutual cooperation and helps reduce the hatreds that have flared in history due to religious bigotry.

This is why YOUR church is ALSO very active in ecumenical relations.

Have you ever heard of Nostra Aetate, a document of Vatican 2? Maybe you should check it out.

Yes i have and also again i would like to say again after i read what i wrote the first time i can see how it came out as attacking but i really didnt mean it that way in my heart. But no all i am asking is how you do relate the decent of the Holy Spirit is all. Again not to argue i agree your wont change me and i wont change you. Nor should we.

 

[rinnie]

But also if I may be so bold to say, I really understand what you are saying, that we should talk about what we agree about more than what we dont. And yes we are working toward one goal the same goal to be with God. But on the other hand to a degree this post is also a way of attacking Catholics also… Just because the teachings are so large, its impossible to know everything, see what i mean. But to say why are Catholics this way, I guess i was put on the defense right off the bat. I mean i understand that you have studied many religions, but you still dont know everything in the Catholic Religion either. You feel you know all Religions, but not all is in a book. Not all is written, you may know some of the teachings of the Church, but there are oral teachings also. We learn those in Mass. We study the religion, and can everyday and learn something new. That is Gods way of talking to us. We are told not to be too bold, No one knows everything but God. That is not ignorance of the faith always, it comes with Grace that comes from God. If you really understood the faith you would understand why Catholics dont know everything or pretend to know. And when God feels its time for us to be called back to the teachings he calls us back. In his own unique way. It is very difficult to understand at times, and cant be done without the Gift of wisdom and Grace only Jesus Christ can give. And God calls us all at different times, different ways, and that in itself is a mystery. But we do know what we believe. Some just feel the need to study things more, some are contented with knowing the basics. but we cant judge the ones who are not called yet. Some just never feel the need to study. But if you want to know its all there for you. But that is all faiths, but this post singled Catholics out. Now was that nice?

 

[Meg74]

This is my first time posting, and I’m on the slowest computer in the world, so please bear with me!
My personal experience is similar to that of others on this thread. I’m a “cradle Catholic” (had never heard of that before Catholic Answers), I attended Catholic schools, my great-uncle was the first cardinal from my country… I’ve been steeped in the religion all my life. yet I too made the mistake of assuming Immaculate Conception referred to Mary’s conception of Jesus, among many others.
My general feeling is that being a Catholic is like being Jewish or Muslim… It’s more than a religion, it’s part of your identity, your make-up, it defines you in a cultural as well as religious way. So I just took it all for granted as I grew up, not bothering to investigate much, just being happy in my relationship with religion within my identity as Catholic. Later on in life, I became very good friends with a Mormon, and with my dad being Jewish, I took a much more active interest in what I believe and why I believe it. That changed everything for me. I think something happens to some Catholics… either it’s a trauma, or finding out something that shakes your complacency (hello Dan Brown’s Da Vinci Code!), and lights a fire under you to go find out if you’ve been on the right path.

 

[PaulDupre]

I think something happens to some Catholics… either it’s a trauma, or finding out something that shakes your complacency (hello Dan Brown’s Da Vinci Code!), and lights a fire under you to go find out if you’ve been on the right path.

I pray that it happens to every Catholic. We need to know our faith and be ready to explain and defend it. I’m glad it happened to you.

God love you,
Paul

 

[rinnie]

This is my first time posting, and I’m on the slowest computer in the world, so please bear with me!
My personal experience is similar to that of others on this thread. I’m a “cradle Catholic” (had never heard of that before Catholic Answers), I attended Catholic schools, my great-uncle was the first cardinal from my country… I’ve been steeped in the religion all my life. yet I too made the mistake of assuming Immaculate Conception referred to Mary’s conception of Jesus, among many others.
My general feeling is that being a Catholic is like being Jewish or Muslim… It’s more than a religion, it’s part of your identity, your make-up, it defines you in a cultural as well as religious way. So I just took it all for granted as I grew up, not bothering to investigate much, just being happy in my relationship with religion within my identity as Catholic. Later on in life, I became very good friends with a Mormon, and with my dad being Jewish, I took a much more active interest in what I believe and why I believe it. That changed everything for me. I think something happens to some Catholics… either it’s a trauma, or finding out something that shakes your complacency (hello Dan Brown’s Da Vinci Code!), and lights a fire under you to go find out if you’ve been on the right path.

That is it! We are called to do this for some reason. It is what I call Gods way of getting our attention. But like you said we have been taught all of our life, we just never questioned things because why would we question something we believe to be true. It is usually when others question it that we have to go back and find them Proof. But to a Catholic we dont need proof. Jesus dont have to prove anything to us. We are taught if Jesus said it, it the truth. No other Religion is like ours. Its called Faith, it doesnt have to be in a book, or showed to us its in our heart. I call it the Holy Spirit in our souls. But because it takes us time to prove it, doesnt make us ignorant to the faith, we just know thats all. And when we do get called on something we want to make sure when we do explain we do it correctly. Thats why we cant do it right off the bat always and off the top of our head. We know its there we must sometimes find. And yes sometimes we need things explained better, dont we all?

 

[Huguenot]

I didn’t know where else to post this, and I TRULY DO NOT wish to offend anyone, but I have made an observation over the last 48 years of my life that puzzles and saddens me.

As a religious Jew, I have spent my entire life studying other religions, as well as my own. I have met with many religious authorities, studied many religions, all in an effort not to be like a few Catholic girls who beat me up as a child, saying to me, “You killed Our Lord”. I never wanted to be as ignorant of the religions of others as they evidently were of not only mine, but their own.

I have met many knowledgeable Protestants, Catholics, Jews, Buddhists, Hindus and others in my life, but one thing I have observed time and again: many Catholics not only are totally ignorant of the religions of others, but also of their own. WHY is this?

To give one example, a woman I knew years ago in the pro-life movement insisted to me that the immaculate conception was the Catholic belief that when Mary conceived Jesus, she was a virgin.

I explained to her that that belief is called the virgin birth. I told her that the belief of the immaculate conception is the belief that when MARY was conceived in HER mother’s womb, she was free of original sin. I then explained that that is what the meaning is of the words on the miraculous medal seen in a vision by Catherine Laboure.

She insisted she was right and I was wrong. I finally told her to ask her priest. She called a few days later to apologize, that I was right.

HOW can so many Catholics be so ignorant of not only the faiths of others, but esp. their own?

I realize not everyone can be a religious scholar, but I thought the Catholic church had catechism classes, parochial schools, etc

My own mother was a convert to Orthodox Judaism from Catholicism, and she had attended Catholic school as a child as well. Yet she misled me for many years, telling me that Catholics do not believe Jesus is god, but SON of God. I didn’t learn what Catholics actually believed on that until I was a teenager, and began studying all religions (I went on to get a degree in comparative religion as well.)

Can anyone explain this to me?

For the “immaculate conception” you are right, but it was not Catherine Labouré, it was Bernadette Soubirous, in Lourdes (or near Lourdes … ) ; I have seen the confusion made by several Catholics on French forums too ( I’m French ) and then they wonder that we ( I’m Protestant ) sometimes don’t understand some Catholic doctrines, well of course we get mixed up if THEY get mixed up …

 

[estesbob]

I think I’m beginning to get a grasp on how the rabbis in the Middle Ages felt, when the bishops ordered them to appear at the local church to engage in “disputations” (a lose-lose situation for the rabbis.)

Lets not get too melodramic here. You came to a Catholic Forum -why would you not expect skepticism and disagreement?

When you confront us as Jews and demand to know WHY we do not believe in Jesus, we are then in a delicate situation.

If we explain to you why we do not believe (because, after all, you DID ask us, remember?), we are then accused of “attacking Jesus”, which we were not doing, even if you took it that way.

I honstly do not know any way to reply to the original question, without having some Christians get defensive and accused us of attacking their faith.

It seems like a logical question. Again you came to a Cathilic Forum-we believe Jesus isGod and is the path to salvation. So the logical question to you would be “why dont you bleive in him”?

Explaining why we do not believe is not attacking your religion. It is only showing why WE do not believe. It does NOT mean YOU should not believe.

So you do not want to explain why you dont beleive but I suspect you want us to explain why we do beleive. if not why are you here?

The post of mine who you took great offense to was a RESPONSE to someone else (maybe it was you, I forget) asking me why Jews do not believe.

I am very, very secure in what I believe, which is why I do not get defensive and angry. When a person gets defensive and angry, it makes me think they are insecure in their own belief.

Well thats a leap of faith. It has been my experience that when non-catholics come to this forum they are either weak in their own beliefs, are trying to convert us to their beleifs or came here to impress us with their knowledge of our false relgion.

When you are CERTAIN in your faith, you feel no need to get angry. I’ve learned that much in the 30 years I have been involved in interreligious discussions.

Have you seen her positng in Jewish forums?

But do not be upset that we Jews do not “accept Jesus”, We also don’t “accept” Buddha, Krishna, Zoroaster, or ANY OTHER non-Jewish deity. We’re not singling out Jesus; we don’t accept ANY of them!

Are you currently positng in any forums on Buddha, Krishna or Zoroaster?

 

[rinnie]

Hashemechad, also just because your Mother mislead you, doesnt mean that we were all mislead. See what i am saying? My whole life if i asked my Dad Anything about the faith, he answered me. And explained it to me. And if he couldnt he found a way for me to understand it. Maybe a pamplet, book whatever. Or the Priest himself, But he also studied the Faith his WHOLE life, My Mother on the other hand just never felt that need. She felt praying everyday, and talking to God in her own way was enough. Whos to judge them. But I agree we will never understand eachothers faith, how could we. But thats okay, but you cant say we dont all know our faith, You dont know all Catholics. Thats just not true. There are some people on this site that can blow your mind on what they understand, and they didnt need a big college degree to comprehend it either. It was true Grace from God. And sometimes things dont click right away for me and then the right one answers my question, and bingo there it is. It makes sense.

 

[Greg27]

People of any religious tradition can be brought up with hatred and prejudice, depending on the influences of culture, schooling, family, friends, and parents.

I know a Jew elsewhere who is incredibly intelligent and also mentions Moses Maimonides (one of my favourite philosophical theologians from the middle ages). I don’t have any problems with people of other religions, or no religions, so long as they do not actively preach hatred of other people for any reason, and do not break any laws, and also work to help the poor, the sick, and the marginalised.