Why are many American Catholics prejudiced against Mexican Catholics?

[Lycorth]

Do me a big favor: please discern the difference between showing disrespect for Mexican Catholics and showing disrespect for illegal immigration. There is a difference.

That’s precisely it; I don’t care what religion an illegal alien professes to hold, illegal immigration is a problem and holding the same religion I do doesn’t get illegals a free pass from me.

I am glad that there are Mexicans who are Catholic. I am not glad about illegal immigration. Indeed, there is a vast difference.

 

[tafan]

I’ve encountered people who have issues with illegal immigration from Latin America, but I don’t think I’ve ever encountered someone who had an issue with Mexican Catholics as Catholics. Could you maybe give an example of what you mean?

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Oh come now, the racism on this board is in the open and explicit. Read any thread on immigration and it quickly goes beyond criticizing undocumented aliens. Mexicans have been called “dirt”. Here are some quotes from the last couple of days:

Where did Jesus say, “It’s OK for Latin Americans to sit at home on Sunday while Americans contribute to your care and feeding”?

Statistists prove that our Latin American “brothers” pretend to be Catholic while in the US. Over 40% of the Latinos in Chicagoland claim to be Catholic while only 1% attend Catholic schools. Somebody is giving them a free ride with American money so why be a real Catholic when that costs money?

Where does it say make poor Americans pay for the lazy Latin Americans who can’t run their own countries and overpopulate the world.

Good question. The first envelope was the standard one to help the parish. The second one was for maintenance on the 6 buildings in the parish. The third was for a parking lot for the parish. Now I did my duty. When will the Mexicans do theirs instead of sleeping late on Sunday.

I went to 8 grades of Catholic school because my parents cared enough for me to do so. They only had 2 children. If you’re going to have 10, you better check your bank account before you do.

 

[Havard]

Oh come now, the racism on this board is in the open and explicit. Read any thread on immigration and it quickly goes beyond criticizing undocumented aliens. Mexicans have been called “dirt”. Here are some quotes from the last couple of days:

With respect, a few samples is not exactly a scientific study.

Neither one of us knows how many CAF posters believe such negative stereotypes, but I would wager any amount of money that the actual percentage is not only a small minority, but that it is far, far lower than the average internet forum. It is right that you are offended by these remarks, but don’t let them color your opinion of the community at large. To do so would be like throwing the champagne out with the cork.

 

[donr]

Oh come now, the racism on this board is in the open and explicit. Read any thread on immigration and it quickly goes beyond criticizing undocumented aliens. Mexicans have been called “dirt”. Here are some quotes from the last couple of days:

Some people are ignorant, there is nothing you can do about that. Some of this although stated out of anger has an bit of truth to it.

I don’t mean to be stereo-typical but It is true that the Mexican population in some communities is generally poorer than their white counter parts. This is not necessarily a bad thing (“It is harder for a rich man to enter”).

However some people get angry when they feel that they are pulling the whole load and others are free-loading. This is a natural feeling but it doesn’t necessarily make it right.

As far as the Mexican or Latin folks that have been here when Texas was part of Mexico and/or are here legally, there should not be an issue. Although, you’ll find that there still will be an issue with Class and Language.

Because their is no standard language in this Country, it is a free for all (Tower of Babel).
What good does it do for us to separate ourselves into different groups. We are supposed to be a melting pot of different nationalities. When my great grandfather came over from Poland he had to learn English in order to feed his family. He didn’t scream racism it was simply what he did to assimilate into the culture. So if you can open your mind a little you might be able to see how some people might be offended by others coming into the Country free-loading, everyone speaking and being catered to their language and culture. The ones who feel this way in kind should open their minds and see that someone here legally has every right as any other citizen of this great Country. We are all one Nation under God no matter how poor. I actually love the food, colors, music and religious attitude, of the latino people. They have a lot to offer our Country.

The cure is to treat everyone as a child of God. That includes the ignorant on both sides of these issues. We should all try to walk a few hundred miles in each others shoes so we know what our brothers and sisters are going through.

God Bless

 

[markomalley]

Oh come now, the racism on this board is in the open and explicit. Read any thread on immigration and it quickly goes beyond criticizing undocumented aliens. Mexicans have been called “dirt”. Here are some quotes from the last couple of days:

You might want to do a little more than quote from on n00b with a total of 24 posts under his belt, every one of them about the same subject, and with a total membership of less than one month before charging rampant racism throughout this forum. And you might want to try quoting from more than one single thread. Of course, with not that much more time on this board, you might not have enough time under your belt before making “rampant racism” charges.

Or, since this board is so bad, you could just consider finding another board that isn’t so offensive to you.

 

[puzzleannie]

Why do you pose a question of the “why do you beat your wife?” bent without first citing evidence that it is true?

why do those who want to discuss immigration issues stay on their own threads

why do I bother

 

[tafan]

With respect, a few samples is not exactly a scientific study.

Neither one of us knows how many CAF posters believe such negative stereotypes, but I would wager any amount of money that the actual percentage is not only a small minority, but that it is far, far lower than the average internet forum. It is right that you are offended by these remarks, but don’t let them color your opinion of the community at large. To do so would be like throwing the champagne out with the cork.

Ok, so I quoted from one thread and one poster. But there was only one other person on that thread who I say speak up against that poster. I have been on other threads and the same thing occurred. No one says anything. Quite the opposite, when it is pointed out, that person is accused of stofling debate by simply throwing about the racist word.
The forum moderators let the offending posts stand. One has to wonder…

Or, since this board is so bad, you could just consider finding another board that isn’t so offensive to you

There is a lot of stuff on this board that is worthwhile. I am not perfect and I don’t expect everyone else to be perfect. That doesn’t mean that poor behavior should not be pointed out.

 

[markomalley]

Ok, so I quoted from one thread and one poster. But there was only one other person on that thread who I say speak up against that poster. I have been on other threads and the same thing occurred. No one says anything. Quite the opposite, when it is pointed out, that person is accused of stofling debate by simply throwing about the racist word.
The forum moderators let the offending posts stand. One has to wonder…

There is a lot of stuff on this board that is worthwhile. I am not perfect and I don’t expect everyone else to be perfect. That doesn’t mean that poor behavior should not be pointed out.

Fine. Then point out the bad behavior. Better that than making sweeping generalizations.

 

[Lycorth]

Oh come now, the racism on this board is in the open and explicit. Read any thread on immigration and it quickly goes beyond criticizing undocumented aliens. Mexicans have been called “dirt”. Here are some quotes from the last couple of days:

Nonsense. There’s nothing remotely “racist” in any of those quotes. If they evidenced a direct hatred of Mexicans for being Mexicans, then and only then would it qualify as racism.

Criticizing the bad behavior of peoples not racially akin to your own doesn’t constitute actual racism.

 

[PaulinVA]

There is one person here from the Chicago area who has been banned multiple times using different usernames.

Other than that, I haven’t really seen prejudice against any groups. The immigration threads do indeed get a little hot, but I would say it’s out of frustration or xenophobia, not prejudice, per se.

 

[tafan]

Nonsense. There’s nothing remotely “racist” in any of those quotes. If they evidenced a direct hatred of Mexicans for being Mexicans, then and only then would it qualify as racism.

Criticizing the bad behavior of peoples not racially akin to your own doesn’t constitute actual racism.

Give me a break, referencing negative racial stereotypes is offensive and bigoted. These quotes are not simply criticizing bad behavior. The number of posts which appear to be apologetic for the offensive behavior is another indicator of problems around here.

 

[Havard]

Let’s distinguish between negative stereotyping and facts.

Compare the following statements:

1. Obesity is a major problem in America.
2. Americans are gluttonous slobs.

The first is a fact, the second is a negative stereotype. We should all be careful not to fall into the temptation of developing uncharitable stereotypes, even if we are frustrated by the underlying problems.

Racism is not necessarily an issue here, but the way. You can be frustrated with your own race or culture, as a generality. That doesn’t make you racist. I’m American and I’m extremely frustrated with my culture at times. But I still love my countrymen!

 

[tafan]

So referring to latinos as lazy, sleeping in on sunday mornings, having too many kids that they can’t afford are facts or uncharitable stereotypes? Which answer would make these statements ok?

And I don’t think the issue here is Mexicans being frustrated with their own culture, so I don’t see how your last analogy makes sense.

To the original question:
I think the answer is that we fall into the trap of always agreeing with our political allies. Many of us vote republican, if nothing else for pro-life reasons, but also because we agree with republicans on limited government, they seem a little bit more in tune with the Catholic principal of subsidiarity, etc. As such, we listen to talk radio, we listen to GOP leaders, etc. Well, we fall into the trap of not being discerning in what we agree. The anti-immigration hysteria common on the right is by no means a conservative principal. Stringent government control of migration has historically been associated with liberal and/or totalitarian governments. But the GOP has gone off the deep end on this issue and the political rhetoric gets quite nasty. It would seem that many catholic americans just need to be a little bit more discerning. But they haven’t been and the predifices of our allies has rubbed off.

 

[Ridgerunner]

“Prejudice” is a complex thing, not always bad, but totally pervasive among humans. For example, I confess to prejudies about law enforcement personnel, both positively and negatively. “Prejudice” simply means “prejudgment” based on certain observations that become patterned in our thinking. So, while I admire cops a lot, and I do, still, if I’m stopped, I am very, very careful in my movements (probably excessively so) because I have that notion in my head (a prejudice) that if I do anything that fits the cop’s mental pattern of threatening behavior, I might get arrested, manhandled or shot. I think such things without knowing the officer at all. That’s a “prejudice”, but it might actually keep me from getting arrested, manhandled or shot someday.

It is a “prejudice” on my part to think of Italians as talkative. Not all are. But a lot of them are, and that’s how I get my “prejudice pattern” in my thinking. I tend to think of Italians as looking like Sicilians; greater familiarity with northern Italians would dispel that, perhaps, but since most Italians I have ever seen are Sicilians or Neopolitans, I think of them in a particular way, physically. That’s a “prejudice”, albeit a harmless one.

Hispanics, of course, vary a lot. A Puerto Rican is not like a Mexican is not like a Chilean, and so on. The fact that we can almost always tell the difference between, say, a Chilean and a Mexican is, itself, a “prejudice”. We expect the Mexican to look Mestizo and the Chilean to look Spanish. Mostly, that’s a correct belief, but it’s still a “prejudice” because not all Mexicans look Mestizo and not all Chileans look Spanish.

The whole thing is complicated by the fact that Hispanics have a lot of prejudices among themselves…very significant ones. If, say, a Guatemalan will tell you the truth, he’ll tell you he doesn’t care for Mexicans; thinks they’re arrogant and that they dump on Guatemalans. Ask a Mexican what he thinks of Guatemalans and you’ll get an earful if he’s truthful with you.

It’s more than that. I was at a Hispanic Mass once, and at the end a Mexican nun got up to the pulpit and started bawling the congregation out. I couldn’t understand her, so I asked another Hispanic what she was saying. Hesitantly, he explained that she was bawling out the Mexicans for their regional prejudices; that those from, say, Jalisco thought themselves better than those from Oaxaca, and so on. “Aztecs” among them (though few really are) do not treat Mayans particularly well, and the antipathy is shared. Once a Mayan explained to me that Mayans learn English in the U.S. better than “La Raza” Mexicans because Mayans appreciate the U.S. more. Maybe it’s true. Maybe not.

That whole “La Raza” business has positive aspects, but it also has very negative ones. It means “The Race”. You’re either in it or you aren’t. To Mexicans of whom I have had experience, blacks are considered barely human, and the sentiment is shared. Want to hear the “N” word? Be among a group of Mexicans in a bar when a black man walks in. (I have) Many, many Hispanics from Mexico or central America consider whites degraded and immoral. Not many Mexican fathers will let their daughters date whites, and if one manages it, the white guy will stand a good chance of meeting her machete-wielding brother some night for it.

On the other hand, Hisanics can be the best friends imaginable one-on-one. “Americanized” Mexicans are among the most wonderful people I have ever met. But sometimes “prejudices” are simply “prudence”. Mexicans who have “gone American” even part, can have certain prejudices, but can be just fantastic people.

A lot of these things are easily explainable as cultural. But they need to be considered in interacting. And, of course, they’re “prejudices”.

A long time ago, a priest explained to me that, e.g., I was not obliged to “like” blacks; that I was obliged to “love” them. By that,he meant that it doesn’t matter if I am put off by some of their cultural ways. But I should never act to harm any of them, and should promote their good just as I would my own.

Wise counsel.

 

[Havard]

So referring to latinos as lazy, sleeping in on sunday mornings, having too many kids that they can’t afford are facts or uncharitable stereotypes? Which answer would make these statements ok?

And I don’t think the issue here is Mexicans being frustrated with their own culture, so I don’t see how your last analogy makes sense.

To the original question:
I think the answer is that we fall into the trap of always agreeing with our political allies. Many of us vote republican, if nothing else for pro-life reasons, but also because we agree with republicans on limited government, they seem a little bit more in tune with the Catholic principal of subsidiarity, etc. As such, we listen to talk radio, we listen to GOP leaders, etc. Well, we fall into the trap of not being discerning in what we agree. The anti-immigration hysteria common on the right is by no means a conservative principal. Stringent government control of migration has historically been associated with liberal and/or totalitarian governments. But the GOP has gone off the deep end on this issue and the political rhetoric gets quite nasty. It would seem that many catholic americans just need to be a little bit more discerning. But they haven’t been and the predifices of our allies has rubbed off.

Clearly the things you mentioned are uncharitable stereotypes. It goes without saying that nothing good will come of them.

As far as Americans being frustrated with their own culture, I brought it up to demonstrate that having frustrations with aspects of a particular culture does not necessarily have anything to do with racism. That is entirely relevant!

 

[Art321]

What needs to be done here is to truly understand that we are all brothers and sisters. While there are some Mexicans that don’t treat Anglos that well, the same can be said about them and people of other races as well. Most Mexcans respect people of different races and there are also plenty of Anglos that do the same and as well as people that are Asian, African, Indian, Arab, and so on. Sure there are differences between us but nothing that can’t be fixed. Very one of us is unique and a child of the Most High God. We are all a big family in the end!

 

[Lycorth]

Give me a break, referencing negative racial stereotypes is offensive and bigoted. These quotes are not simply criticizing bad behavior. The number of posts which appear to be apologetic for the offensive behavior is another indicator of problems around here.

Give me a break. There is no problem with “racism” around here. There is, however, a problem with “White Guilt” amongst modern (and essentially liberalized) Catholics who are under the impression that White people can’t criticize non-Whites for any reason or else it’s racism.

It’s not hard to see where the real racism is.

 

[Ridgerunner]

Most Mexcans respect people of different races …

I don’t mean to quibble, but you absolutely don’t know that. Maybe it’s true, maybe it isn’t. But when one says “most Mexicans” do or think ANYTHING, it’s a “prejudice”. It might be a favorable one, but it’s still a prejudice.

 

[donr]

As stated earlier, prejudice is prejudgment. Are we going to talk prejudice or racism?
They are two total different things.

There is not necessarily anything wrong with prejudging a class, race, or even religion. If you do not prejudge some situations, you may be harmed (ie, checking white or Hispanic old ladies and little kids at airports, when this issue is with radical Islam). However racism is always wrong.

Of course anything in excess is not a good thing. If you were to prejudge a young Hispanic male that is wearing a hooded sweat jacket or a white t-shirt that is two times to large for him, tattoos, with his pants on the ground and his hat turned sideways, you might feel threatened. If you act on your fear and shoot him or call the police even though he has done nothing wrong, then you have a problem.

Culture is a big issue. A young man in hooded sweat shirt whether white, black, Asian or ? could be threatening to a young woman walking at night for a stroll. You might even have some negative thoughts about the young lady. But it is not racism it is prejudice. It doesn’t matter what color they are. It is what they are wearing or doing that might give someone a preconceived idea. It is true that races have prejudices against others in their culture. If you have a negative reaction about someone simply because he/she is of a certain race you are a racist but if you have negative reaction about the above mentioned males you are not necessarily a racist but you are absolutely prejudice. Culture is what it is and stereo-types become used. It is mine, yours and their responsibility to try and change that stereo-type. It is a rough job but with the help of the Almighty it can be done.

Let’s pray to an end of wrongful stereo-types and for the changing of minds of those who cause the stereo-type. That’s all of the above + you + me.

 

[mark_a]

Originally Posted by aspawloski4th forums.catholic-questions.org/images/buttons_khaki/viewpost.gif
They are here illegally by virtue of the fact they are undocumented, thus by definition they are criminals.

Technically you are right, I guess.

Are the folks hiring illegals and underpaying them not criminals too?