Why are many protestants opposed to honoring the Blessed Virgin Mary?

[ForeverGrace]

I have no problem honoring Mary. I just won’t worship her. There is nothing in scripture that says she is a mediatrix or that she has to intervene on my behalf.

 

[pablope]

I have no problem honoring Mary.

Okay…so let me ask you…what have you done to honor Mary?

I just won’t worship her. There is nothing in scripture that says she is a mediatrix or that she has to intervene on my behalf.

 

[GaryTaylor]

I have no problem honoring Mary. I just won’t worship her. There is nothing in scripture that says she is a mediatrix or that she has to intervene on my behalf.

ForeverGrace we do not worship Her either. All Awe and Worship is for God. When you say nothing in scripture states; She is mediatrix, this is incorrect.

Let me ask you something, when Mary through Free-Will consented at the Annunciation then the Incarnation followed, Mary mediated for mankind right at this point. She interceded for mankind at this point and these two words are one of the same. So yes She did intervene not only on your behalf, but all mankinds behalf. And that was Gods Will.

Something to think about.

 

[BListon]

I have no problem honoring Mary. I just won’t worship her. There is nothing in scripture that says she is a mediatrix or that she has to intervene on my behalf.

Brother in Christ… we do not worship Mary, that would be a sin against the 1st commandment. We just ask her to pray on our behalf or intercede. That is not worship, just like it is not worship if you ask someone here on earth to pray for you. The mystical body of Christ is one , whether we are here on earth or in heaven, we are still part of the body of Christ. I however do respect your religious convictions as a Protestant brother in Christ.
God Bless:thumbsup:

 

[JRKH]

I have no problem honoring Mary.

Amen. Could I ask - what for this honor takes?

I just won’t worship her.

Our Blessed Mother is very glad to hear you say that as is every Catholic for to teach or engage in such a thing would be against All of teachings of God’s holy Church.

There is nothing in scripture that says she is a mediatrix or that she has to intervene on my behalf.

This is true…she does not have to intervene on your behalf and yet, by God’s grace and power, and out of perfect, Holy, motherly Love, She does so.
If you want to talk she will listen and help if she can.
If you prefer to talk directly with the Father, she’s fine with that too…

There is no jealousy in heaven…

Peace
James

 

[ForeverGrace]

Yes, dear Catholic friends, I know all about latria and dula worship.

Let’s see what has been written and approved by the Vatican, shall we?

In the celebration of the Marion year, Pope Pius XII accurately reflected the Church’s view of the Virgin Mary when the Pope stood up to give this following Pontifical prayer, and I quote: “Enraptured by the splendor of your heavenly beauty and impelled by the anxieties of the world, we cast ourselves into your arms, O immaculate mother of Jesus and our mother, Mary we adore and praise the peerless richness of the sublime gifts with which God has filled you above every other mere creature from the moment of conception until the day on which your assumption into heaven He crowned you Queen of the Universe. O crystal fountain of faith, bathe our hearts with your heavenly perfume. O conqueress of evil and death, inspire in us a deep horror of sin which makes the soul detestable to God and the slave of hell. O well-beloved of God, hear the ardent cries which rise up from every heart in this year dedicated to you. Then tenderly, O Mary, cover our aching womb, convert the wicked, dry the tears of the afflicted and the oppressed. Comfort the poor and humble. Quench hatred. Sweeten harshness. Safeguard the flower of purity. Protect the holy Church. In your name resounding harmoniously in heaven, may they recognize that all are brothers and that the nations are members of one family. Receive, O sweet mother, our humble supplications and above all, obtain for us on that day, happy with you that we may repeat before your throne that hymn which is sung today around your altars, you are beautiful, O Mary, you are glory, O Mary, you are the joy, you are the honor of our people,” end quote.

From the book The Glories of Mary.

It has been published many, many times since 1745. It is fully authorized by the Roman Catholic Church. Its latest edition that I have is a smaller abridged version of it, published by the Catholic Book Publishing Company of New York and officially stamped by the Vicar General, the Archdiocese of New York.

Here is one prayer: “My most beloved lady, I thank thee for having delivered me from hell as many times as I have deserved it by my sins. Miserable creature that I was, I was once condemned to that prison and perhaps already after the first sin, the sentence would have been put into execution if thou in thy compassion hast not helped me. Thou without even being asked by me and only in thy goodness didst restrain divine justice. And then conquering my obduracy, thou didst draw me to have confidence in thee. O into how many other sins should I have afterward fallen in the dangers in which I have been hadst not thou, my loving mother,** preserved me by the graces which thou didst obtain for me? ** (I thought Jesus provided the Grace) Ah, my queen, continue to guard me from hell for what will thy mercy and the favors which thou hast shown me avail if I am lost? If I did not always love thee, now at least after God I love thee above all things, never allow me to turn my back on thee and on God who by thy means has granted me so many graces. My mother, most amiable lady, never allow me to have the misfortune to hate thee and curse thee for all eternity in hell.”

I respect your views friends, but to my way of thinking this is way more than honoring Mary. This author has turned her into a means of salvation.

 

[GaryTaylor]

I respect your views friends, but to my way of thinking this is way more than honoring Mary. This author has turned her into a means of salvation.

I respect you views also. When one understands the above post I made, than much is accomplished in regards to Mary/Incarnation. From this point its a history lesson.

When we begin to read the Saints and the course taken in understanding the position of Mary through the centuries we see familiar Prayers throughout history. She has been venerated as the Queen of Heaven for a very long time. Nothing new in this regard. I posted one of the Prayers earlier in this thread from St. Athanasius. Familiar ring to it also as above.

Point being not so much to extend to the far ends and depth of teachings first, but to see how the Church’s regarded Mary from the start and see this for what it honestly is. In fact I would incourage anyone in this path first anyway.

That said its Intercession always, and always the Grace comes from God. Intercession is the act of interceding (intervening or mediating) between two parties. Imperative understanding.

 

[KathleenGee]

To understand Mary, you must also understand the mystery of the Church… a communion…we are not sola…

You must understand the sacraments, the Mass, the reflections of the Word of God in context of the sacraments…and the saints.

Mary is the greatest of all.

In context of creatures and the Divine…Mary is the link between us and the Holy Trinity. She is as a bridge.

When people bring forth writings as such…they are reading this from the accusation by their leaders that we worship Mary. Study our concept of the Mass, come to see how we worship Christ, and then understanding the perspective of our veneration of Mary begins to come into light.

Again, we are a communion of saints…We approach collectively, united to one another. Yes, we face God alone, we run our own race…but we also do it with our fellow brethren.

Now Mary assumed into heaven, she is now crowned as Queen of Heaven and Earth…which entails the entire universe…just as Christ is the King of the Universe.

The universal worship of Christ is so profound and fitting for the Lord Who has come to make His dwelling among us. In no way does our worship of Christ be parallel or similar to our veneration of Mary.

I shared with others here that I entered an intensely anti-Catholic fundamentalist forum. The sneering…I wrote out a little on the Mass and Eucharist…to reflect our base of worship, and they deleted it.

I have sacred paintings of Christ…and an Italian statue of Mary, Mother of Grace, from Italy, purchased by my uncle in 1942. My approach to her is not the same as Christ, and I find even my bearing before the Sacred Heart of Jesus painting is centered on His heart united with mine, He my life source. Not the same with Mary.

However…Mother Theresa of Calcutta saw Mary as the greatest transmitter of grace, the greatest contemplative. And Mother Theresa herself quenched hatred by her loving presence…she was hated by some in India where she was originally beaten when first going out…Now many non-Christians imitate her there.

The Bible says when someone sends us bad things, we are to return blessings, that will be as coals over that person’s head. So…to say Mary can quench hatred is no different than a saintly person living out the Gospel.

When all you hear is those accusing us of worshiping Mary, but then not telling you how we truly worship…I would detox…really…because they are misrepresenting our faith to you.

 

[SaintPatrick333]

Quite simply because they are misled by their ministers who preach against what Christ taught.

 

[JRKH]

Yes, dear Catholic friends, I know all about latria and dula worship.

Let’s see what has been written and approved by the Vatican, shall we?

In the celebration of the Marion year, Pope Pius XII accurately reflected the Church’s view of the Virgin Mary when the Pope stood up to give this following Pontifical prayer, and I quote: “Enraptured by the splendor of your heavenly beauty and impelled by the anxieties of the world, we cast ourselves into your arms, O immaculate mother of Jesus and our mother, Mary we adore and praise the peerless richness of the sublime gifts with which God has filled you above every other mere creature from the moment of conception until the day on which your assumption into heaven He crowned you Queen of the Universe. O crystal fountain of faith, bathe our hearts with your heavenly perfume. O conqueress of evil and death, inspire in us a deep horror of sin which makes the soul detestable to God and the slave of hell. O well-beloved of God, hear the ardent cries which rise up from every heart in this year dedicated to you. Then tenderly, O Mary, cover our aching womb, convert the wicked, dry the tears of the afflicted and the oppressed. Comfort the poor and humble. Quench hatred. Sweeten harshness. Safeguard the flower of purity. Protect the holy Church. In your name resounding harmoniously in heaven, may they recognize that all are brothers and that the nations are members of one family. Receive, O sweet mother, our humble supplications and above all, obtain for us on that day, happy with you that we may repeat before your throne that hymn which is sung today around your altars, you are beautiful, O Mary, you are glory, O Mary, you are the joy, you are the honor of our people,” end quote.

From the book The Glories of Mary.

It has been published many, many times since 1745. It is fully authorized by the Roman Catholic Church. Its latest edition that I have is a smaller abridged version of it, published by the Catholic Book Publishing Company of New York and officially stamped by the Vicar General, the Archdiocese of New York.

Here is one prayer: “My most beloved lady, I thank thee for having delivered me from hell as many times as I have deserved it by my sins. Miserable creature that I was, I was once condemned to that prison and perhaps already after the first sin, the sentence would have been put into execution if thou in thy compassion hast not helped me. Thou without even being asked by me and only in thy goodness didst restrain divine justice. And then conquering my obduracy, thou didst draw me to have confidence in thee. O into how many other sins should I have afterward fallen in the dangers in which I have been hadst not thou, my loving mother,** preserved me by the graces which thou didst obtain for me? ** (I thought Jesus provided the Grace) Ah, my queen, continue to guard me from hell for what will thy mercy and the favors which thou hast shown me avail if I am lost? If I did not always love thee, now at least after God I love thee above all things, never allow me to turn my back on thee and on God who by thy means has granted me so many graces. My mother, most amiable lady, never allow me to have the misfortune to hate thee and curse thee for all eternity in hell.”

I respect your views friends, but to my way of thinking this is way more than honoring Mary. This author has turned her into a means of salvation.

Indeed - I find much of this type of thing to be too flowery and a bit over the top for my taste - and I was raised Catholic…It just really does not help me spiritually and a reading of the many posts here seems to bear out that many in the Church feel the same way. So there is obviously a wide range of Marion devotion reflected in the Church.
It is also significant to note that nowhere in Church teaching are we required to pray to Mary or the saints for intercession.

That said, a careful reading of the quotes you provide above shows that Mary is never called the source for the graces or other benefits…Rather that she “obtains” them - from where? Obviously from God - Father Son and Spirit…
The Church teaches that Mary can do nothing of herself. That all that she is and is capable of is strictly gifted to her by God. If there are those who lose sight of this. It needs to be up to us - good fellow Christians - to point this fact out so that we give to our Holy Mother only that devotion she desires…No more and no less.

I’m still curious my friend. When you say that you honor Mary - could you explain how you do so?? What “honoring Mary” means to you personally? I’d love to hear your perspective on it.

Peace
James

 

[ForeverGrace]

Quite simply because they are misled by their ministers who preach against what Christ taught.

My goodness. This is the second time you have gone out of your way to insult protestants. I’m getting used to it.

So, I have a question. Catholic Answers Forum has this section for Non-Catholic religion questions. Although there is no stated purpose, it seems that Catholics want to know what we believe and why. That seems fair to me. I don’t mind offering my point of view. But IF you really want to know what we believe, you likely will not get it if you think it’s appropriate to take cheap shots at us, or worse condescend to us.

The questions themselves are pretty accusatory to begin with, but that goes with having firm beliefs and biases and we all do it. That all by itself doesn’t bother me, but asking a question and then insulting the person who answers doesn’t seem like the way to really learn what we believe and why.

Could someone tell me what the purpose of this particular forum is? Am I misunderstanding and the idea is for only Catholics to answer the question so everyone can insult us? If that is the original intent, I will move on.

Sometimes I learn a good many things here and I often find myself agreeing with some of it and there are some really lovely people here. But today… not so much.

 

[JRKH]

My goodness. This is the second time you have gone out of your way to insult protestants. I’m getting used to it.

So, I have a question. Catholic Answers Forum has this section for Non-Catholic religion questions. Although there is no stated purpose, it seems that Catholics want to know what we believe and why. That seems fair to me. I don’t mind offering my point of view. But IF you really want to know what we believe, you likely will not get it if you think it’s appropriate to take cheap shots at us, or worse condescend to us.

The questions themselves are pretty accusatory to begin with, but that goes with having firm beliefs and biases and we all do it. That all by itself doesn’t bother me, but asking a question and then insulting the person who answers doesn’t seem like the way to really learn what we believe and why.

Could someone tell me what the purpose of this particular forum is? Am I misunderstanding and the idea is for only Catholics to answer the question so everyone can insult us? If that is the original intent, I will move on.

Sometimes I learn a good many things here and I often find myself agreeing with some of it and there are some really lovely people here. But today… not so much.

Please accept my apology on behalf of the many good people here at CAF for offending you with some of the responses. You are quite right about us having firm beliefs and that can sometimes result in “less than charitable” answers…By and large though I think that this board is among the very best for carrying on good and friendly discussion.

Of course - if any of us feel that a comment is indeed sufficiently out of line, we should not be afraid to use the "report post’ button in the upper right corner.

Peace
James

 

[BListon]

My goodness. This is the second time you have gone out of your way to insult protestants. I’m getting used to it.

So, I have a question. Catholic Answers Forum has this section for Non-Catholic religion questions. Although there is no stated purpose, it seems that Catholics want to know what we believe and why. That seems fair to me. I don’t mind offering my point of view. But IF you really want to know what we believe, you likely will not get it if you think it’s appropriate to take cheap shots at us, or worse condescend to us.

The questions themselves are pretty accusatory to begin with, but that goes with having firm beliefs and biases and we all do it. That all by itself doesn’t bother me, but asking a question and then insulting the person who answers doesn’t seem like the way to really learn what we believe and why.

Could someone tell me what the purpose of this particular forum is? Am I misunderstanding and the idea is for only Catholics to answer the question so can insult us? If that is the original intent, I will move on.

Sometimes I learn a good many things here and I often find myself agreeing with some of it and there are some really lovely people here. But today… not so much.

I have to agree with you on this. Hopefully it is not too blasphemous to agree with a Protestant. JK

 

[Luvtosew]

My goodness. This is the second time you have gone out of your way to insult protestants. I’m getting used to it.

So, I have a question. Catholic Answers Forum has this section for Non-Catholic religion questions. Although there is no stated purpose, it seems that Catholics want to know what we believe and why. That seems fair to me. I don’t mind offering my point of view. But IF you really want to know what we believe, you likely will not get it if you think it’s appropriate to take cheap shots at us, or worse condescend to us.

The questions themselves are pretty accusatory to begin with, but that goes with having firm beliefs and biases and we all do it. That all by itself doesn’t bother me, but asking a question and then insulting the person who answers doesn’t seem like the way to really learn what we believe and why.

Could someone tell me what the purpose of this particular forum is? Am I misunderstanding and the idea is for only Catholics to answer the question so everyone can insult us? If that is the original intent, I will move on.

Sometimes I learn a good many things here and I often find myself agreeing with some of it and there are some really lovely people here. But today… not so much.

HI, Yes I feel the same way, its entertainment I think sometimes. Most times I’m afraid to answer since when I do I get attacked for my beliefs. God Bless and take care.

 

[KathleenGee]

Beautiful, Jarek.

I have the ‘Glories of Mary’, but didn’t go far in it because of the language. Doesn’t invalidate its intent, however.

I think the bigger problem is that the Solas are willfully not taught how we worship. And the other is that Mary is the woman who crushes the proud head of Satan by her heel…her children, the lowly ones, through their prayers and penance.

You see Mary because she expresses so much serenity and beauty and centering on the will of God. You see Mary standing on a serpent, going back to the Hebrew interpretation of Genesis. I have had dying clients in hospice, who prior were literally immobile. Then death arrives, and they are thrashing back and forth in their beds, and trying to pull their IV’s out to run away. One even told her boyfriend to get Jesus out of the room.

This particular lady had several New Age symbols in her house, plus a woman Shinto goddess and a tiny statue of Mary of Guadalupe. I was trying to reach out to her and she was having terrible dreams that the devil was going to imprison her. I asked her if she knew who the statue was and what was the story about her.

I spoke to her of Mary of Guadalupe who appeared to Juan Diego, and later asked him to pick roses for her in December. He was to bring to the roses to Bishop Zumarraga, who is now in the process of becoming a saint, and the bishop primarily responsible for giving women and girls a right to an education hundreds of years before North American women.

When Juan brought the roses to the bishop, not only did the roses tumble out, but an image had appeared on the tilma, a pictograph…the form of communication among the Aztec people. When it was shown to the Indians, they immediatley believed. Arrows were shot in the air and one fell and killed an Indian bystander. When the image was brought to him on the tilma, he was brought back to life.

This hospice lady heard the story, and I asked the dying woman if she would like to have Mary as her mother. She told me she had lived a bad life. She had no confidence in the mercy of God. So I prayed a Hail Mary for her that Mary would become her mother. She was immediately filled with much peace. Then I told her how there are many lies said about Christ.

So I prayed an Our Father so that the truth of Jesus would be made known to this woman.
She was brought to the presence of the Lord through Mary. Mary put her back in order so that she would have confidence before the Lord. This is one of the great gifts of Mary, to prepare us to see the Lord when we are burdened by so much sin. I then prayed the Chaplet of Divine Mercy for her. I told the lady if Mary were to appear to her right now, she would tell her one thing, that there would be someone special waiting for her with open loving arms, and it would be Jesus.

I went home and tried to sleep, and would wake to pray the Chaplet of Divine Mercy for this woman. I went back to the house at night and the boyfriend’s mother was at the door. She invited me in. She was a Catholic and Eucharistic Minister. She told me the lady had died in the afternoon. She had picked up her little statues around her bed. And she went back and picked up the little statue of Mary of Guadalupe…and told the mother that there is someone special waiting for her. The mother asked, “Is it Jesus?” And the lady replied yes.

Mary is the greatest advocate of sinners. True devotion to Mary always brings us to Jesus. There are times observing someone who is Marian, to think that person might be excessive. You cannot judge people by appearances. May be this individual lost their mother and is experiencing the love of a mother in the Blessed Mother that was not given to them as a child.

Certain Protestants will hear this mantra over and over about how we worship Mary. They will never hear how we truly worship the Lord. There is a fellow on CAF who became Catholic. And when he returned to his former associates, they repeatedly accused him of worshipping Mary when he protested that was not true. So sad.

 

[KathleenGee]

The Trappist Abbey of Mary of Guadalupe in Oregon just came out with the Guadalupe Story made by the native Indians. It is story and ballad combined, and they relate it not in books, but in the oral tradition of song.

FYI, www.trappistabbey.org,The Guadalupe Story…this is somewhat different from ‘Glories of Mary’…

 

[JRKH]

Kathleen - what a wonderful story…
Thank you for sharing your experience.

Also for the link…

Peace
James

 

[Todd_Martin]

"Often they have struggle believing in her virginity, her purity"

I am not aware of any Western Protestant or Radical Reformist denomination on planet Earth that denies the virginity of Mary. All orthodox Christians believe Jesus was born to the Virgin.

"her sinlessness as the Mother of God"

Mary is the Mother of God (Christ). All orthdox Christians believe this.

"…sinlessness…"

Only the Messiah is sinless.

"Many protestants make their own doctrines about our Lady and deny her being the Mother of God, but rather just a Mother of a holy man."

Can you be more specific. Exactly who (Protestant) denies Mary is the Mother of God?
Is there even ONE radical reformists, protestant or evangelical church out there that believes that Christ is simply a holy man? All Christians believe that Jesus is the Messiah, the Alpha and Omega, the Creator of all things.

Let’s start a debate with a clear, initial understanding of each other’s positions and beliefs. This saves time and a lot of grief.

p.s. I don’t intend my comments to be terse or rude. It’s all in spirit of good argument.

 

[Mavovo]

Why are many protestants opposed to honoring the Blessed Virgin Mary?

In my opinion, the fault could be with us, Catholics.

Could it be, our conduct, our veneration of the Blessed Mother, our speech and interaction with Protestants and non-believers, fail to demonstrate to others who Mary is TO US?

"CHARITY BEGINS AT HOME"
In order for ANYONE in my community to KNOW and RESPECT, HONOR and LOVE my (biological) mother, the onus is on me, HER SON and on my SIBLINGS to demonstrate by conduct who OUR mother truly is.

After my beloved mother's funeral it was heart-warming and edifying to listen to stories shared by nearly all the speakers who testified that mother's L O V E for her family, mother's devotion to our extended family and community was clearly reflected in the behavior and speech of all those that were close to her.

Methinks, we fail to show to the world Who the Holy Mother of our Savior truly is.
SHE IS THE MOTHER OF GOD!

 

[KathleenGee]

Todd…the big problem is more with the non-denominationals who do not consider us Christian because we worship Mary, because they are many times continually indoctrinated that way, and it spills out into ordinary life in their interactions with Catholics. This is not a problem as such with mainline Christianity that has a number of its ancient roots with the universal Church…meaning us and the Orthodox.

Likewise, their teachers are unable and/or unwilling to teach them our true authentic form of worship in Christ and the Holy Trinity.