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Why are many protestants opposed to honoring the Blessed Virgin Mary?
- Status
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KathleenGee
Guest
Many good Christians who do not practice devotion to Mary will meet her in heaven and see how much she prayed for them.
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homesower
Guest
Let me reply as a Protestant.
In Protestant churches Mary is barely mentioned. She receives about equal treatment as Stephen, Phillip, the other Marys except at Christmas. She probably gets less mention than she should because talking about her starts getting into Catholic territory.
Protestants don’t hold to the intercession of the Saints the way Catholics understand that term. To us the Saints is the church. You and me. We don’t accept that Saints in heaven have a role of receiving our prayers and acting on them. We do accept that they have assignments of importance but don’t express much of an opinion on what those are, other than praising God, casting down our crowns and all that glassy sea business. Since the mentions of prayers in the Bible are all about prayers directed to God, or in the name of Jesus, we can’t see where we have been given authority to direct prayers to Mary or Joseph or any Saint before or since.
We also can’t understand where the concept of Mary’s perpetual virginity comes from. Jesus had brothers. The Bible doesn’t suggest she remained a virgin. Nor is a mother (through the usual means) somehow less of a servant of God than the woman who chooses to remain a virgin. It is not so much that we don’t honor virginity as that we don’t see any suggestion in the Bible that God, who made Adam and Eve, and who seems to be all for procreation, ever shows any particular partiality to virginity, other than in its proper time before marriage. It is allowed where an individual consecrates their time and service to God, but does not seem to be honored in and of itself, whereas we view that to be the case within Catholicism.
We are concerned that some Catholics not only venerate but worships Mary and that this pushes Jesus off stage. We see and hear enough things from Catholics and Catholic writings to suggest that maybe Catholics think that Jesus is just a little too busy with other things and shouldn’t be bothered at the moment, but Mary or (insert Saint’s name here) does have the time and really cares for us. Granted that may be a misreading, but I think that is the Protestant’s view of the Catholic doctrine of Mary.
It is not a light concern. I expect for many Protestants it is one of their primary objections to Catholicism.
In Protestant churches Mary is barely mentioned. She receives about equal treatment as Stephen, Phillip, the other Marys except at Christmas. She probably gets less mention than she should because talking about her starts getting into Catholic territory.
Protestants don’t hold to the intercession of the Saints the way Catholics understand that term. To us the Saints is the church. You and me. We don’t accept that Saints in heaven have a role of receiving our prayers and acting on them. We do accept that they have assignments of importance but don’t express much of an opinion on what those are, other than praising God, casting down our crowns and all that glassy sea business. Since the mentions of prayers in the Bible are all about prayers directed to God, or in the name of Jesus, we can’t see where we have been given authority to direct prayers to Mary or Joseph or any Saint before or since.
We also can’t understand where the concept of Mary’s perpetual virginity comes from. Jesus had brothers. The Bible doesn’t suggest she remained a virgin. Nor is a mother (through the usual means) somehow less of a servant of God than the woman who chooses to remain a virgin. It is not so much that we don’t honor virginity as that we don’t see any suggestion in the Bible that God, who made Adam and Eve, and who seems to be all for procreation, ever shows any particular partiality to virginity, other than in its proper time before marriage. It is allowed where an individual consecrates their time and service to God, but does not seem to be honored in and of itself, whereas we view that to be the case within Catholicism.
We are concerned that some Catholics not only venerate but worships Mary and that this pushes Jesus off stage. We see and hear enough things from Catholics and Catholic writings to suggest that maybe Catholics think that Jesus is just a little too busy with other things and shouldn’t be bothered at the moment, but Mary or (insert Saint’s name here) does have the time and really cares for us. Granted that may be a misreading, but I think that is the Protestant’s view of the Catholic doctrine of Mary.
It is not a light concern. I expect for many Protestants it is one of their primary objections to Catholicism.
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xylem411
Guest
Thanks for the question. It is however a “loaded” question, that is, tilted in it’s simplicity, yet understandable .Tilted because all Christians, of all curches honor Mary, call her blessed. Understandable because there is a huge difference amongst Christians as to just how to honor and just how blessed she is .There is a difference of opinion on just what is true, biblical, historical about Mary. It is not honoring to be untruthful or in error about the matter. More can be less and less can be more. Hopefully we are ALL opposed to honoring Mary not in spirit and truth.
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Rhema7
Guest
The honoring of Mary by Catholics subsumes a greater paradigm; where so many aspects of the Bible are turned sideways. What such aspects? Interceding to saints? Where in the Bible does it say that? When we have the Holy Spirit who intercedes for us. Romans 8:26-27 Where is the notion that prayer is more powerful from saints (as in st.peter or st. whoever), angels or Mary? When once again Jesus left us the Holy Spirit to guide us and intercede for us (for those who have accepted Jesus as their Savior).
It is very simple. Jesus came to save those who would believe and accept Him. When someone accepts Jesus Christ the Holy Spirit dwells in that person. John 7:39 Although that person is saved, he/she has to renew their mind with the Word by seeking the ways of Jesus Christ. Because Jesus knows that this is a spiritual battle we have the Holy Spirit to guide us into all truth. John 14:17, John 16:13
When constant reasoning and logic is being applied, religiosity is a result. This is a matter of faith and the spiritual, more than it is about the carnal. God left the Word as manuscript of how to live. The Holy Spirit is here to guide us, so that we live according to the Word. Salvation and all the blessings that come from it is simple to obtain; believe, accept, and live. Granted, just because one is saved doesn’t mean everything will go easy. But as followers of Christ, we have the confidence that all things will work together for good. Romans 8:28
Why so many added things, when God left the directions with simplicity? That is a rhetorical question.
God bless.
It is very simple. Jesus came to save those who would believe and accept Him. When someone accepts Jesus Christ the Holy Spirit dwells in that person. John 7:39 Although that person is saved, he/she has to renew their mind with the Word by seeking the ways of Jesus Christ. Because Jesus knows that this is a spiritual battle we have the Holy Spirit to guide us into all truth. John 14:17, John 16:13
When constant reasoning and logic is being applied, religiosity is a result. This is a matter of faith and the spiritual, more than it is about the carnal. God left the Word as manuscript of how to live. The Holy Spirit is here to guide us, so that we live according to the Word. Salvation and all the blessings that come from it is simple to obtain; believe, accept, and live. Granted, just because one is saved doesn’t mean everything will go easy. But as followers of Christ, we have the confidence that all things will work together for good. Romans 8:28
Why so many added things, when God left the directions with simplicity? That is a rhetorical question.
God bless.
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xylem411
Guest
Give honor to where honor is due .Ceratinly that scripture was not just for honoring Mary, but for a father, mother, civil leader, pastor, teacher. Besides, one could say it is a false form of piety to give honor to someone “we” esteem to be better than us, or that “our” honor can only be given to perfection. Shall I say I am a dog and find it quite easy to give honor to many, for I am the chief of sinners and all are better than me ? Mary is honored for her obedience, her faith and what she did, wheher one thinks her to be perfect ,etc. or not.
That was settled centuries ago, that Christ was both man AND God, thereby coming up with the term theotokus -“god-bearer” for Mary. This has no bearing on Mary on all the extra debated attributes of Mary.
Do you even know where the term “protestant” comes from ? It is in the same vein that you do not allow others personal convictions apart from pride, jealousy or greed. It seems prideful to think others don’t have this God-given gift of each of us having to come to a personal revelation from God on all matters. What I believe about Mary has little to do with what Catholicism teaches about her today.
Again, this seems very tender hearted. .Please allow others to have their own revelation on the matter wihout casting negative judgements on their motives ( you said “pride, jealousy, and greed”), for they have received tenderly from the Lord on the matter.
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KathleenGee
Guest
Catholics simply do not worship Mary. That is a spin. And a bad one at that.
Study how Catholics worship God at Sunday Mass. The two, worship to the One True God, and veneration of Mary – are two separate things.
To be only with the book of the Bible is indeed being alone without the Church.
As said previous, I only hear fundamentalists speak of the people of faith of the Old Testament but cannot draw on any significant persons outside the Acts of the Apostles for any other witness of Christ. Christ died 2,000 years ago and there are practically no known fundamentalist saints.
I have read of some outstanding Lutherans and Anglicans who I would privately consider saints or near that of canonized ones…of what i know…but I do not know of any public saints of fundamentalists. I consider those who are martyred for Christ unknown saints, no matter what denomination they are in.
Irregardless with no public saints to go with public revelation – the Books of the Bible and the Apostles/Nicene Creed, this is very sad and even empty, because somehow it implies that Christ really did not have much significance on the lives of believers for 2 millenia…so this idea of rejecting the communion of saints and of Christ instituting His Church…fail in the great glory of Christ Who draws all men to Himself.
However, if fundamentalists begin to study the lives of the saints, especially pick some here or there who have been canonized in different eras of time, you will find out that each one had a particular charism to contribute to the personal depth of our understanding of Christ, but all bore fruit of the one same Lord, Jesus Christ…unity in diversity, all bearing the same truths and the same results of faith and growth in Him.
About Mary, we can learn more about Mary by what we don’t know about her…think about that one. A priest from the Society of Mary proposed that to us to reflect on…Mary does not bring attention to herself…true virtue hides itself…the hidden life…I think of Brother Lawrence’s ‘Living in the Presence of God’…
Study how Catholics worship God at Sunday Mass. The two, worship to the One True God, and veneration of Mary – are two separate things.
To be only with the book of the Bible is indeed being alone without the Church.
As said previous, I only hear fundamentalists speak of the people of faith of the Old Testament but cannot draw on any significant persons outside the Acts of the Apostles for any other witness of Christ. Christ died 2,000 years ago and there are practically no known fundamentalist saints.
I have read of some outstanding Lutherans and Anglicans who I would privately consider saints or near that of canonized ones…of what i know…but I do not know of any public saints of fundamentalists. I consider those who are martyred for Christ unknown saints, no matter what denomination they are in.
Irregardless with no public saints to go with public revelation – the Books of the Bible and the Apostles/Nicene Creed, this is very sad and even empty, because somehow it implies that Christ really did not have much significance on the lives of believers for 2 millenia…so this idea of rejecting the communion of saints and of Christ instituting His Church…fail in the great glory of Christ Who draws all men to Himself.
However, if fundamentalists begin to study the lives of the saints, especially pick some here or there who have been canonized in different eras of time, you will find out that each one had a particular charism to contribute to the personal depth of our understanding of Christ, but all bore fruit of the one same Lord, Jesus Christ…unity in diversity, all bearing the same truths and the same results of faith and growth in Him.
About Mary, we can learn more about Mary by what we don’t know about her…think about that one. A priest from the Society of Mary proposed that to us to reflect on…Mary does not bring attention to herself…true virtue hides itself…the hidden life…I think of Brother Lawrence’s ‘Living in the Presence of God’…
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mangy_dog
Guest
I have my own mangy dog theory about this:
In Catholicism we have the 3 sources for our deposit of faith- Holy Scripture; Divine Revelation and the Magisterium of the Church.
We have the “safety net” if you will, so that we don’t have to walk in darkness or lack the truth of what we believe. Additionally, when we forget about one of the 3 sources, we tend to mis-interpret or go astray of the truth. That is, until we return to the fullness of truth, then, we are again “safe”.
Protestants (God bless them) only have “sola scripture”- without an authority to go to for…well, authoritative teaching and interpretation. They lack 2 of the 3 safety nets.
So, in honoring the Theotokos- they fear falling into “idolatry”. They don’t understand because they lack the fullness of truth-which they will argue tooth & nail is in sola scriptura and sola scriptura only. They interpret according to however many members of a particular christian denomination and then interpret according to their own concupiscience.
Protestant Christians are like Carl Walenda on the high wire-you’re only headed down hard and fast if you commit an error.
So, mangy, what do you say about those of us who properly practice SS by including and using the early councils and creeds, who recognize the value of the writings of the ECF’s to form our faith and understand scripture?
What do you say about the fact that in Luther’s time, regarding invocation, that many Catholics did fall into a form of idolatry regarding the saints and the Blessed Virgin, and in some ways were led there by people speaking for the Church - people like Tetzel? Please note that this is not acriticism of the Modern CC, as I think it has done an excellent job of correcting, explaining and clarifying these isses.
Jon
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mangy_dog
Guest
Those of you who properly practice…are closer to the truth (by the mercy of God) than those that don’t properly practice.
It’s a good thing we live in this century, even though we learn from the past. In my mangy dog philosophy, I tend to keep things simple: those who honor the Immaculate, Perpetual Virgin, Mother of God-inevitably find Jesus Christ.
Both Luther and Calvin knew and understood the importance of the Theotokos and all the devotions and revences attributed to her because they also recognized that all of her attributes are in light of her son’s attributes.
In time, the original protest of Luther and Calvin became more radicalized and as such, veneration of the Theotokos and the saints were thrown into the pile of issues to be protested against.
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xylem411
Guest
My own theory is you are either solo sriptura or solo ecclesia. If you interpret scripture wrong where is your safety net as you say .Well if your church is wrong where is your safety net ? Of course we all have a safety net if we so choose. We are never alone .We are never “solo”, for there is the magnificent ministry of the Holy Spirit. Both sides of the isue know this and claim a sort of infallibility due to Christ’s promise and the Holy Spirit. And of course one side says the promise is only to a church, the other to individuals who make up the church. Anyways, Catholics also only have one authority, the Church. The Church rests on Scripture and Tradition. As far as falling ,well we should fall if we are wrong. David says if there is any error in him to let it be taken away, destroyed.
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mangy_dog
Guest
Don’t be so hard on yourself,
Your almost back home. Return now- before the Warning and if not by the time the Permanent Miracle takes place. Hopefully before the great Chastisement.
I pray everyday and at several times of the day for all you christians…apart from the one, true church that Christ intended to exist after His ascension into heaven and of which He left Peter as it’s first Pope…264 popes later to Pope Benedict XVI. And the gates of hell have not and will not prevail against her.
Stay close my friend to the Great Flagship Catholic church in St. John Bosco’s vision.
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xylem411
Guest
Not sure i was hard on myself unless you mean on sin, as David suggests.Thanks for your admonitions,warnings and prayers. I would say may we all be ready to give an answer for our hope, that we will enter into glory because of what Jesus did for us, and that we know Him in this salvation and he knows us. May we not say, “Let me in because I did… such and such, or this or that, or that I am Catholic or I am Baptist,or that I am confessed or baptized”. If one wants to do stuff like that because they do believe in Calvary and want to show it, fine. But if one doesn’t do a bunch of religious "stuff " but still believes, that is fine also . I guess what I am saying be careful in putting your trust on what your ship looks like. Calvary is Calvary. There is only one Body,one Bride. There are no second class citizens.
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Eric_Hilbert
Guest
Thread topic please
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gerry_clark
Guest
There are is a lot misinformation.
Often divisions occur because of an identity crisis. We define ourselves by saying what we are not. The oversimplification of those create problems
The Revised Common Lectionary(RCL) Protesant Lectionary contains the “Magnificate”
(from Luke) in all 3 Lectionaries cycles, not just the C cycle in Advent. The Methodist
except includes the Magnificate one week earlier, week 2, when the Roman Lectionary
is still presenting the eschtalogical Messianic coming.
What is true is that in the Catholic context, Mary is presented as an intercessor. In the
Protestant tradition, born out of the abuses of the Church that claimed to be the only way
to God, there is no need for an intercessor. The Protestants were not the only ones who
made an end run around the Church to God. The Catholic mystics did exactly the same
thing. There is a view that these mystics, which accepted neither the Reformation nor the Counter Reformation positions in their entirety were probably the true prophetic voice of
God in that period.
This issue of the need for or even the acceptance of an intercessor has gone through many twists.
The idea that anyone or any entity can claim to have exclsuive access to God has been
rejected by most people of reason.
At the same time, there is also almost universal acceptance that certain environments or
activities can be conducive to the establsihment of a frame of mind that is receptive to
hearing, accepting and following God’s will. The Ignatian Excercises, the 19th Annotation,
and variety of devotions to Mary, especially those that emphasize the Magnificant as an
expression of humility should be viewed as a preparation, not a replacement for estasblishing personal commuication with God.
Today, Vatican II published Lumen Gentium which recognizes the prophetic voices that may be heard by the faithful. This is a recognition of the what the mystics presented. This is also in keeping with the some of the LCWR speakers. Unfortuantely, the Roman
Curia denies the historic position of the prophet as one who speaks against the estab-
lishment, secular and ecclessiatical. It is difficult for the organization against which a prophetic voice is to speak to be the source of such speech. It is in the tradition of the
Catholic mystics, rather than the Protestant Reformers that a prophetic voice outside the
Church must be recognized. The Catholic view of Mary asan intercessor is similar, Mary
is a legitimate intercessor in her own right, she does not need the Church.
Often divisions occur because of an identity crisis. We define ourselves by saying what we are not. The oversimplification of those create problems
The Revised Common Lectionary(RCL) Protesant Lectionary contains the “Magnificate”
(from Luke) in all 3 Lectionaries cycles, not just the C cycle in Advent. The Methodist
except includes the Magnificate one week earlier, week 2, when the Roman Lectionary
is still presenting the eschtalogical Messianic coming.
What is true is that in the Catholic context, Mary is presented as an intercessor. In the
Protestant tradition, born out of the abuses of the Church that claimed to be the only way
to God, there is no need for an intercessor. The Protestants were not the only ones who
made an end run around the Church to God. The Catholic mystics did exactly the same
thing. There is a view that these mystics, which accepted neither the Reformation nor the Counter Reformation positions in their entirety were probably the true prophetic voice of
God in that period.
This issue of the need for or even the acceptance of an intercessor has gone through many twists.
The idea that anyone or any entity can claim to have exclsuive access to God has been
rejected by most people of reason.
At the same time, there is also almost universal acceptance that certain environments or
activities can be conducive to the establsihment of a frame of mind that is receptive to
hearing, accepting and following God’s will. The Ignatian Excercises, the 19th Annotation,
and variety of devotions to Mary, especially those that emphasize the Magnificant as an
expression of humility should be viewed as a preparation, not a replacement for estasblishing personal commuication with God.
Today, Vatican II published Lumen Gentium which recognizes the prophetic voices that may be heard by the faithful. This is a recognition of the what the mystics presented. This is also in keeping with the some of the LCWR speakers. Unfortuantely, the Roman
Curia denies the historic position of the prophet as one who speaks against the estab-
lishment, secular and ecclessiatical. It is difficult for the organization against which a prophetic voice is to speak to be the source of such speech. It is in the tradition of the
Catholic mystics, rather than the Protestant Reformers that a prophetic voice outside the
Church must be recognized. The Catholic view of Mary asan intercessor is similar, Mary
is a legitimate intercessor in her own right, she does not need the Church.
J
JRKH
Guest
Interestingly - an old thread of mine popped back up in which I had asked if one could “worship” something without knowing it. I used as my text the passage in Mt 6 where Jesus is talking where our treasure lies so will our heart and about not being able to serve two masters…
Within that discussion - I found myself trying to determine how the term “serve” might relate to “worship”…I made an interesting discovery which MIGHT relate to why some protestants, have difficulty with the Catholic form of veneration…
Looking at Mt 4:10 we see Jesus admonishing satan by quoting Deuteronomy 6:13 when He says…
Then Jesus said to him, "Begone, Satan! for it is written, ‘You shall worship the Lord your God and him only shall you serve.’
Since both words are used here…I looked at the Greek…
The Greek used here for worship (Proskuneo) speaks mainly to outward acts of reverence, kneeling, kissing the hand, etc…
The word for “serve” is…latreuō…To serve.
That said…The OT reference (Deut 6:13) gives the Hebrew word, " `abad" which means “to work, serve” (from Strongs concordance). The Septuagint uses the term “Latreuo” which likewise means to serve.
Of course it is interesting that in Mt 4:10 and Luke 4:8 where Christ is responding to satan, a different word is used (Proskuneo) but this appears to be due to the specific request made by satan…That Jesus “fall down and worship”…a physical, ritualistic act.
Anyway…to tie this to the issue of Marion devotion…it is perhaps a bit more understandable that some of our protestant brothers and sisters, working with the bible and the ancient languages and definitions, would say we “worship” when we show the outward signs that fit with the term “Proskuneo” (translated as worship) and meaning…
(meaning to kiss, like a dog licking his master’s hand); to fawn or crouch to, i.e. (literally or figuratively) prostrate oneself in homage (do reverence to, adore):–worship.
What is really interesting is that when I typed in the word “worship” HERE. to see what Greek word(s) are translated as “worship” a whole list came up…
So - as seems often the case, semantics plays a key role in understanding - or misunderstanding each other…
Peace
James
Within that discussion - I found myself trying to determine how the term “serve” might relate to “worship”…I made an interesting discovery which MIGHT relate to why some protestants, have difficulty with the Catholic form of veneration…
Looking at Mt 4:10 we see Jesus admonishing satan by quoting Deuteronomy 6:13 when He says…
Then Jesus said to him, "Begone, Satan! for it is written, ‘You shall worship the Lord your God and him only shall you serve.’
Since both words are used here…I looked at the Greek…
The Greek used here for worship (Proskuneo) speaks mainly to outward acts of reverence, kneeling, kissing the hand, etc…
The word for “serve” is…latreuō…To serve.
That said…The OT reference (Deut 6:13) gives the Hebrew word, " `abad" which means “to work, serve” (from Strongs concordance). The Septuagint uses the term “Latreuo” which likewise means to serve.
Of course it is interesting that in Mt 4:10 and Luke 4:8 where Christ is responding to satan, a different word is used (Proskuneo) but this appears to be due to the specific request made by satan…That Jesus “fall down and worship”…a physical, ritualistic act.
Anyway…to tie this to the issue of Marion devotion…it is perhaps a bit more understandable that some of our protestant brothers and sisters, working with the bible and the ancient languages and definitions, would say we “worship” when we show the outward signs that fit with the term “Proskuneo” (translated as worship) and meaning…
(meaning to kiss, like a dog licking his master’s hand); to fawn or crouch to, i.e. (literally or figuratively) prostrate oneself in homage (do reverence to, adore):–worship.
What is really interesting is that when I typed in the word “worship” HERE. to see what Greek word(s) are translated as “worship” a whole list came up…
So - as seems often the case, semantics plays a key role in understanding - or misunderstanding each other…
Peace
James
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gerry_clark
Guest
Yes JRKH,
We need to get beyond the words.
Many Protestants and Catholics revere Bonhoeffer. In fact he was not a Christian martyr
but a political causualty. He was executed because he plotted to kill Hitler. Bonhoeffer’s
family was threatened financially by Hitler’s socialism. Bonhoeffer’s family’s wealth paid for
his writings to be smuggled out of jail.
His writings are theologically sound and in line with Cardinal Newman. Newman wrote of
spiritual maturation and Bonhoeffer wrote of spiritually coming of age.
We can find common ground with our Christian brothers and sisters if we look at the lives
of Newman and Bonhoeffer as examples for us to follow. The saints provide similar examples. Protestants do not deny the existance of the saints. There objection is to
regarding the saints as intercessors on our behalf with God. Protestants, like the Catho-
lic mystics and many Catholics who have been cast off by the Institutional Church have
found access to God outside the Church.
We can also establish common ground with our Protestant brothers and sisters when we
speak of a departed loved one, a parent or spouse, watching over us and guiding us. This
is a form of intercessor action.
We can be God’s agents by working toward God’s reconciliation of all His creation by
establishing common ground rather than debating semantics.
We need to get beyond the words.
Many Protestants and Catholics revere Bonhoeffer. In fact he was not a Christian martyr
but a political causualty. He was executed because he plotted to kill Hitler. Bonhoeffer’s
family was threatened financially by Hitler’s socialism. Bonhoeffer’s family’s wealth paid for
his writings to be smuggled out of jail.
His writings are theologically sound and in line with Cardinal Newman. Newman wrote of
spiritual maturation and Bonhoeffer wrote of spiritually coming of age.
We can find common ground with our Christian brothers and sisters if we look at the lives
of Newman and Bonhoeffer as examples for us to follow. The saints provide similar examples. Protestants do not deny the existance of the saints. There objection is to
regarding the saints as intercessors on our behalf with God. Protestants, like the Catho-
lic mystics and many Catholics who have been cast off by the Institutional Church have
found access to God outside the Church.
We can also establish common ground with our Protestant brothers and sisters when we
speak of a departed loved one, a parent or spouse, watching over us and guiding us. This
is a form of intercessor action.
We can be God’s agents by working toward God’s reconciliation of all His creation by
establishing common ground rather than debating semantics.
J
JRKH
Guest
Amen -
And yet “semantic” cannot be completely avoided where the same words carry different meanings to the one speaking and the one listening…
But that said - I much prefer building bridges…
and I am also quite drawn to the mystics - I’m glad they are getting more exposure…
Peace
James
B
Barelohim
Guest
I have noticed some scripture noting the reasons why protestants don’t honor Mary, and since it is Jesus speaking, whose words are to be most trusted? And lean on our own understanding…
Matthew 11:11… Verily I say unto you, Among them that are born of women there hath not arisen a greater than John the Baptist: yet he that is but little in the kingdom of heaven is greater than he.
Since Mary was also born of a woman, then, according to jesus John was considered greater.
Luke 11:27 And it came to pass, as he said these things, a certain woman out of the multitude lifted up her voice, and said unto him, Blessed is the womb that bare thee, and the breasts which thou didst suck.
28 But he said, Yea rather, blessed are they that hear the word of God, and keep it.
Since it is obvious this woman was speaking of Jesus’ mother Mary, Jesus’ comment was clearly saying those that hear the Word, and do it are more blessed!
Sincerely In Christ
Barelohim.
Matthew 11:11… Verily I say unto you, Among them that are born of women there hath not arisen a greater than John the Baptist: yet he that is but little in the kingdom of heaven is greater than he.
Since Mary was also born of a woman, then, according to jesus John was considered greater.
Luke 11:27 And it came to pass, as he said these things, a certain woman out of the multitude lifted up her voice, and said unto him, Blessed is the womb that bare thee, and the breasts which thou didst suck.
28 But he said, Yea rather, blessed are they that hear the word of God, and keep it.
Since it is obvious this woman was speaking of Jesus’ mother Mary, Jesus’ comment was clearly saying those that hear the Word, and do it are more blessed!
Sincerely In Christ
Barelohim.
J
JRKH
Guest
Indeed… Welcome to the boards
Thanks for bringing these to our attention. They are well known to the Catholics here.
“…hath not arisen a greater than…” is not equal to "All others are lesser (than John)…
It is possible to deduce that there are others “born of women” who are equal to John…
Just saying…
But then of course, John and Mary ARE in the kingdom of heaven…So we would need to move on to both of them being greater than any mere earthly consideration.
More blessed than what? I do not see “more blessed” in Jesus’ response…
I do see Jesus seeking to keep the focus on His words - His teaching - the word of God
But while calling attention to one, it does not detract from the other. The Arc of the covenant contained the Word of God - which was more important - the word or the vessel? Obviously it is the word, and yet the vessel containing them was likewise esteemed for that which is bore.
Bless you and once again - welcome. Hope to see more posts from you.
Peace
James
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