Why are Muslims saved according to Roman Catholicism?

[Milliardo]

There is no hope for those who refuse to come to the Biblical Jesus Christ.

Indeed–but refusal means there is a giving first; the message should be given first before it is either accepted or rejected. Would you say God will condemn someone for simply being Muslim then? Even if that person has not heard of Christ or His Church?

 

[flameburns623]

This is a very difficult concept to understand for any Christian. Can anyone try to explain this official Roman Catholic teaching? This statement makes the incarnation, life and death of Christ, and the resurrection to be unecessary.

The Catholic doctrines of invincible ignorance and of baptism by desire apply here.

Invincible ignorance assumes that a person is ignorant through no fault of their own of their need to be a visible member of Christ’s Body the Church; that they are in sincerity and integrity responding to the light that God has given them; and that they are disposed to join themselves to the Body of Christ if in fact the veil of their ignorance is somehow removed.

Baptism of desire says that any who would join themselves to the Church of Christ–consciously or unconsciously–but who are impeded from doing so through no fault of their own, are united with that Body in spirit so long as they would be fully willing to join themselves to the Body of Christ as soon as that impediment is removed. One who is wholeheartedly dedicated to the pursuit of Divine truth and who would do anything which they knew God required of them in order to be in union with Him would be a candidate for Baptism of Desire.

So not all Muslims are saved: only those who are invincibly ignorant of the obligation to be Catholic, and who would join themselves to the Catholic Church if they knew She is the Body of Christ on Earth. Those Muslims who would never join the Catholic Church under any circumstances–even if they knew She is the Body of Christ–would NOT be saved. Those Muslims who don’t really care about what is God’s truth or not God’s truth, and who would not change if they knew what the truth is, would not be saved.

 

[underdog]

This would only be true if one heard of the Gospel; this would not apply for one who has not of it. God is just, as we always say; would He outright condemn anyone who has not heard or known Christ? That would be unjust and cruel for anyone, for the simple reason the person has not heard of Jesus. But for those who have been preached to and reject Him, then He applies the proper judgment for it.

You just turned the greatest good news of God throughout the history of the world to accountable bad news. Why would you preach Christ to someone if they become accountable for rejecting Him for eternal condemnation. If someone can be saved apart from hearing the gospel, you have no reason to share the gospel with them. Do you see what I mean. Jesus states the exact same thing. We are all condemned and guilty before we ever hear the gospel. The gospel is a rescue message from our already condemned condition.

“For God so loved the world, that he gave his only Son, that whoever believes in him should not perish but have eternal life. For God did not send his Son into the world to condemn the world, but in order that the world might be saved through him. Whoever believes in him is not condemned, but whoever does not believe is condemned already, because he has not believed in the name of the only Son of God. And this is the judgment: the light has come into the world, and people loved the darkness rather than the light because their works were evil. For everyone who does wicked things hates the light and does not come to the light, lest his works should be exposed. But whoever does what is true comes to the light, so that it may be clearly seen that his works have been carried out in God.” - John 3

 

[underdog]

Indeed–but refusal means there is a giving first; the message should be given first before it is either accepted or rejected. Would you say God will condemn someone for simply being Muslim then? Even if that person has not heard of Christ or His Church?

We are all condemned in Adam and are sinners in our mother’s womb. It is official Roman Catholic theology expounded by Saint Augustine that we are sinners at birth, or even sinner’s in our mother’s womb. God is not obligated to save anyone one of us. He would be perfectly just if we all got what we deserve which is condemnation for our sins. We are all condemned and in enmity with God as we enter this world. Why do you think infant baptismal regeneration is taught by your church?

 

[underdog]

The Catholic doctrines of invincible ignorance and of baptism by desire apply here.

Invincible ignorance assumes that a person is ignorant through no fault of their own of their need to be a visible member of Christ’s Body the Church; that they are in sincerity and integrity responding to the light that God has given them; and that they are disposed to join themselves to the Body of Christ if in fact the veil of their ignorance is somehow removed.

Baptism of desire says that any who would join themselves to the Church of Christ–consciously or unconsciously–but who are impeded from doing so through no fault of their own, are united with that Body in spirit so long as they would be fully willing to join themselves to the Body of Christ as soon as that impediment is removed. One who is wholeheartedly dedicated to the pursuit of Divine truth and who would do anything which they knew God required of them in order to be in union with Him would be a candidate for Baptism of Desire.

So not all Muslims are saved: only those who are invincibly ignorant of the obligation to be Catholic, and who would join themselves to the Catholic Church if they knew She is the Body of Christ on Earth. Those Muslims who would never join the Catholic Church under any circumstances–even if they knew She is the Body of Christ–would NOT be saved. Those Muslims who don’t really care about what is God’s truth or not God’s truth, and who would not change if they knew what the truth is, would not be saved.

Ignorance does not give you an excuse. Knowledge based on truth saves you through knowing Christ. God tells us that all are without excuse.

Romans 10

Brothers, my heart’s desire and prayer to God for them is that they may be saved. For I bear them witness that they have a zeal for God, but not according to knowledge. For, being ignorant of the righteousness of God, and seeking to establish their own, they did not submit to God’s righteousness. For Christ is the end of the law for righteousness to everyone who believes.

God’s Wrath on Unrighteousness - Rom 1

For the wrath of God is revealed from heaven against all ungodliness and unrighteousness of men, who by their unrighteousness suppress the truth. For what can be known about God is plain to them, because God has shown it to them. For his invisible attributes, namely, his eternal power and divine nature, have been clearly perceived, ever since the creation of the world, in the things that have been made. So they are without excuse. For although they knew God, they did not honor him as God or give thanks to him, but they became futile in their thinking, and their foolish hearts were darkened. Claiming to be wise, they became fools, and exchanged the glory of the immortal God for images resembling mortal man and birds and animals and creeping things.

 

[paarsurrey]

This is a very difficult concept to understand for any Christian. Can anyone try to explain this official Roman Catholic teaching? This statement makes the incarnation, life and death of Christ, and the ressurection to be unecessary.

Hi

I think you should broaden your vision on humanity.

Please keep in mind, that the respect the Muslims give to Jesus and Mary, is not on record given by other religions.

If you think I am wrong; kindly quote from the sacred book of any other revealed religions.

Thanks

 

[flameburns623]

Ignorance does not give you an excuse. Knowledge based on truth saves you through knowing Christ. God tells us that all are without excuse.

Romans 10

Brothers, my heart’s desire and prayer to God for them is that they may be saved. For I bear them witness that they have a zeal for God, but not according to knowledge. For, being ignorant of the righteousness of God, and seeking to establish their own, they did not submit to God’s righteousness. For Christ is the end of the law for righteousness to everyone who believes.

God’s Wrath on Unrighteousness - Rom 1

For the wrath of God is revealed from heaven against all ungodliness and unrighteousness of men, who by their unrighteousness suppress the truth. For what can be known about God is plain to them, because God has shown it to them. For his invisible attributes, namely, his eternal power and divine nature, have been clearly perceived, ever since the creation of the world, in the things that have been made. So they are without excuse. For although they knew God, they did not honor him as God or give thanks to him, but they became futile in their thinking, and their foolish hearts were darkened. Claiming to be wise, they became fools, and exchanged the glory of the immortal God for images resembling mortal man and birds and animals and creeping things.

In the passage you cited:

Romans 1 talks about the light of creation;

Romans 2 talks about the light of conscience.

Romans 3 makes clear that those who are faithful to the light of creation and the light of conscience will receive the light of Christ.

The Church simply teaches that this can happen by the grace of God even if we do not see outward visible evidence that the light of Christ has been received.

God is after all free to save any and all whom He chooses. He is not willing that any should perish but that all should come to repentance.

 

[Jon_S]

There’s nothing to misunderstand. There is no salvation apart from the gospel of Jesus Christ. Islam denies that Christ was crucified, and ressurected.

How is this different than what I said to you earlier? If you re-read my post, you will find that there is much we agree on. The issue here is mostly semantics.

If you look back at Romans 2:14-16, you will find that the Gentiles St. Paul is speaking of are not Christians and they also did not believe that Christ was God. They did not “have the law,” yet the law is written on some (not all) of their hearts and able to defend them before Christ.

I’m not trying to tell you that I believe Muslims WILL be saved. I’m telling you (and the Catechism explains) that they CAN be saved, and if so it would be despite their disbelief in Christ as Savior.

You are extracting pieces of a larger work to create scandal where none exists.

 

[Milliardo]

You just turned the greatest good news of God throughout the history of the world to accountable bad news. Why would you preach Christ to someone if they become accountable for rejecting Him for eternal condemnation.

Because that is what Jesus exactly did; He did not out and out condemn sinners. We can see this when He was confronted with the adulterous woman–did He condemn her as the others did? He had every right to do so–it is after all a grave sin to commit adultery, then or now. Yet that is not what Jesus did. We are again reminded of this thing about hearing His word in the Old Testament–if today you hear His voice, harden not your heart. You can see here then that there should be a hearing first–one should then hear His voice, His Gospel, before one would see if the person would accept or reject it. A person who has not heard His voice then–what is there to condemn if there is no hearing? It is akin to a court condemning a man simply because he is accused, without going through the process of looking at the facts and evidences provided. God would then be cruel and unjust if He would condemn anyone for simply being not Christian. Zeal for the Faith should not blind us into being self-righteous as to condemn others who are not the same as we are. Again, we turn to that event with the adulterous woman, wherein Jesus turned to her accusers.

Whoever believes in him is not condemned, but whoever does not believe is condemned already, because he has not believed in the name of the only Son of God.

You miss the implication of this passage–belief precludes a preaching and a hearing; what is there then to believe if one is not preached to? Would you believe that there are other galaxies out there simply because someone said so, without the benefit of an explanation? Of course not. The same is true with the implication here–remember that Jesus charged the Apostles with preaching; He did not tell them to point out who is to believe and who will not. So belief implies a preaching first. A Muslim then who has not heard of Him–what do you think is there to believe for someone like that? Do you think he will believe someone whom he has not heard of, has not read about, has not been told about? Again, simple, common sense.

 

[Milliardo]

We are all condemned in Adam and are sinners in our mother’s womb. It is official Roman Catholic theology expounded by Saint Augustine that we are sinners at birth, or even sinner’s in our mother’s womb. God is not obligated to save anyone one of us. He would be perfectly just if we all got what we deserve which is condemnation for our sins. We are all condemned and in enmity with God as we enter this world. Why do you think infant baptismal regeneration is taught by your church?

Yes, we are all sinner, but that did not mean God outright condemned us, did He now? He after all sent His Son. In that alone you should see that He is not unjust, but gives such chances to everyone. So yes, a Muslim can be saved, if through no fault of his own he has not heard of Christ or His Church.

 

[Reuben_J]

Because that He did not tell them to point out who is to believe and who will not. So belief implies a preaching first. A Muslim then who has not heard of Him–what do you think is there to believe for someone like that? Do you think he will believe someone whom he has not heard of, has not read about, has not been told about? Again, simple, common sense.

Just curious. What about Muslim posters here who have heard about Jesus and his church through discussion and explanation and yet still deny them?

 

[inJESUS]

According to Roman Catholicism, Muslims are not saved but might be saved if God in His mercy chooses it for reasons He only knows.

 

[Milliardo]

Just curious. What about Muslim posters here who have heard about Jesus and his church through discussion and explanation and yet still deny them?

I think it is clear that since they now know Him, then there is no reason not to accept Him.

 

[paarsurrey]

I think it is clear that since they now know Him, then there is no reason not to accept Him.

Hi

What an idea?

Muslims already believe in Jesus and Mary; we rather love them.

There is one Chapter named Maryam or Mary in Quran.

Kindly read it so that you have correct and direct information. No other religion (excepting Christianity) has a chapter on Mary or Jesus.

I love Jesus and Mary as I do love Buddha and Krishna

Thanks

 

[flameburns623]

You just turned the greatest good news of God throughout the history of the world to accountable bad news. Why would you preach Christ to someone if they become accountable for rejecting Him for eternal condemnation. If someone can be saved apart from hearing the gospel, you have no reason to share the gospel with them. Do you see what I mean. Jesus states the exact same thing. We are all condemned and guilty before we ever hear the gospel. The gospel is a rescue message from our already condemned condition . . .

The answer is that no one who would reject Christ if the Gospel were preached to them is saved through invincible ignorance. The doctrine itself says that you must already be disposed to receive the Gospel if in fact it is preached to you. If you already understand who the true Christ is and reject Him out-of-hand as the way of salvation, then there is no hope for you. Many people, however, have not rejected the true Christ but a false Christ–just as many, especially among Christian heresies, have not embraced the true Christ but a false one. Many have rejected not the true Gospel but a false gospel, which not only has no power to save but also no power to condemn.

Prior to the 1950’s or so, this doctrine tended to exclude most people who were aware of the Catholic Church and rejected it. Frequently this was understood to include even the vast majority of Protestants. Many Catholics thought it extremely unlikely that there would be many Protestants however sincere in Heaven. See a book such as the Radio Replies series, (which I have owned for years and love), for examples of such a narrow understanding of invincible ignorance.

Some have suggested since about the middle of the 20th century or so that invincible ignorance prevails even among those who never hear anything but a distortion of the Gospel–those who never hear the true Gospel. Hence, because Protestants, Muslims, Buddhists, and so forth frequently know of the Gospel as the Catholic Church teaches it only second-hand, through inaccurate and twisted sources, they receive the benefit of invincible ignorance assuming all conditions are met. To summarize these again:

1. One must be ignorant of the Gospel of Christ through no fault of one’s own.
2. One must be obedient to the light of conscience and creation to the degree one understands these.
3. One must be perfectly contrite for one’s sins as one understands this.
4. One must be predisposed to receive the light of Christ if God in His Mercy reveals it to one.

Hope this helps!

 

[Muslim_Woman]

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Salaam/peace

This is a very difficult concept to understand for any Christian. .

yap ; if it’s possible for bad Muslims like me to go to heaven with all the good Catholics , then why Jesus (p) suffered a painful death
( according to Bible ) ?

A logical ans could be like this , may be all Muslims will go to hell first . There Jesus (p) will burn for us for several months / years . Then Jesus (p) will save us from fire & allow us to meet Catholics in heaven. I hope , now it’s not that difficult to understand

 

[underdog]

Indeed–but refusal means there is a giving first; the message should be given first before it is either accepted or rejected. Would you say God will condemn someone for simply being Muslim then? Even if that person has not heard of Christ or His Church?

Being Muslim, Hindu, Catholic, Protestant, Orthodox, Buddhist, Shinto, Wicka, agnostic, Satanist, athesist, pagan, etc does not send you to Hell. We are all born into this world condemned, heading for Hell because of our rebellion and sin against God alone. We have to understand that truth. You are not saved becaue you are Roman Catholic. And Muslims are not condemned for being Muslims. Please reflect on that for awhile. Humanity is only divided into two groups, those who are united to Adam and those who are unted to the 2nd Adam (romans 5). Christ came into this world to rescus sinners from their already condemned conditon. That is His mission to the glory of God. The gospel is such a glorious act of God’s love when understood in fullness of truth.

http://www.fantasyecards.com/ecards/pix/Cartoon/underdog.jpg

When we are united to Christ, we no longer live but Christ lives in us. God sees us in His beloved Son where there is no condemnation. It is only because of our union with Christ that we have peace with God. It has nothing to do with being Roman Catholic, Protestant, Orthodox, or Muslim. This is a universal truth, because Christ came to rescue sinners from all tongue, tribes, and nations. Therefore, all nations can rejoice what God has done in Christ. What does the U stand for on my chest? The U stands for our vital union with Jesus Christ. Christ is everything to the Christian…oops that’s another thread, but that should be the central theme for all who love the Lord Jesus Christ.

 

[AshleyBelle]

Being Muslim, Hindu, Catholic, Protestant, Orthodox, Buddhist, Shinto, Wicka, agnostic, Satanist, athesist, pagan, etc does not send you to Hell. We are all born into this world condemned, heading for Hell because of our rebellion and sin against God alone. We have to understand that truth. You are not saved becaue you are Roman Catholic. And Muslims are not condemned for being Muslims. Please reflect on that for awhile. Humanity is only divided into two groups, those who are united to Adam and those who are unted to the 2nd Adam (romans 5). Christ came into this world to rescus sinners from their already condemned conditon. That is His mission to the glory of God. The gospel is such a glorious act of God’s love when understood in fullness of truth.

http://www.fantasyecards.com/ecards/pix/Cartoon/underdog.jpg

When we are united to Christ, we no longer live but Christ lives in us. God sees us in His beloved Son where there is no condemnation. It is only because of our union with Christ that we have peace with God. It has nothing to do with being Roman Catholic, Protestant, Orthodox, or Muslim. This is a universal truth, because Christ came to rescue sinners from all tongue, tribes, and nations. Therefore, all nations can rejoice what God has done in Christ. What does the U stand for on my chest? The U stands for our vital union with Jesus Christ. Christ is everything to the Christian…oops that’s another thread, but that should be the central theme for all who love the Lord Jesus Christ.

Underdog, I think you are just confusing what it means to be “in Christ.” We all agree that Christ is everything…that we are either united to Him, united to truth… Or united to Adam in sin. You are right to say salvation doesn’t come by being Catholic, muslim, agnostic, or any other religion… It only comes through Christ, Jesus!

What we ARE disagreeing on, however, is that God may choose to reveal Jesus to our hearts how GOD wills to do so. Not underdog, ashleybelle, catholicism, islam, Christianity, atheism or anything else reveals Christ to our hearts…but God alone…through HIS grace alone. We may not put a label and limitation on How God may choose to reveal Christ to our hearts…And the Catholic church simply recognizes that because of His great love and power, God may choose to reveal Christ in ways that we do not understand.

We must be united to Christ in order to recieve His salvation…But you are placing limitations that simply do not exist on how we may be united to Him. It is of course desirable that we know Him fully…and we believe the FULLNESS of truth, the fullness of Christ, is present in His church; The Catholic Church. All salvation, all of Christ is offered to the whole world through His church, the body of Christ. Those who are not “fully united” MAY still be mystically united, because of God’s great mercy.

We are acknowledging that nobody can know the state of our hearts…only God. And we are acknowledging that He is greater than our understanding, and His truth is saving!
Why do you limit the power of God and the power of the cross? Does it frighten you to imagine that somehow God may extend His grace to those who do not know Christ as fully as you do?

 

[paarsurrey]

Christ came into this world to rescue sinners from their already condemned conditon.

Hi

I thank you for setting a target mission for Jesus “to rescue sinners from their already condemned conditon”.

You are a nice person, in my opinion.

What was the mission of Jonah ; kindly quote from the Book of Jonah?

Regards

 

[Jon_S]

Why do you limit the power of God and the power of the cross? Does it frighten you to imagine that somehow God may extend His grace to those who do not know Christ as fully as you do?