Why are nonCatholic Christians indifferent to Mary?

[peary1]

I decided on a different approach to the ‘dislike’ thread. I am not using that word. The word I am choosing instead is ‘indifferent’. By the use of this word I mean having no bias, prejudice, or preference; impartial; disinterested. Keeping this in mind now, the question becomes: why are nonCatholic Christians indifferent to Mary, the mother of Jesus?

 

[remodog]

Some fundamentalists believe it is a form of idolatry. T.V. preachers for example

 

[rskempf]

Yes, that is right.

The main issue is that reverence of Mary is confused with worship of Mary. Catholics have great reverence for Mary. After all, she continues to appear on our behalf, and accepted the offer to carry the Messiah. She deserves some credit I believe.

The other faiths have rejected the Magisterium (the Pope) and have created their own version of christianity.

Oddly enough, Martin Luther had a high regard for Mary. Later, the Lutheran faith and protestant faiths in general, rejected reverance of Mary. They went as far as to point fingers at catholics that revered Mary. It went even further in some denominations. There, catholics are said to worship Mary.

You see how twisted it gets. Once the umbilical cord is severed from the one true faith, things go downhill fast.

 

[johns58w]

I read one of Peter Kreeft’s books (Handbook of Catholic Apologetics). One section mentions on page 438 #10 The Divinity of Christ: The exultation of Mary, the mother of God
(third paragraph)
Biblical Protestants rightly insist on the full divinity of Christ. They are (rightly) Christocentric. But so is Mary, and so are the Church’s Marian Doctrines. every single one of the titles the Church has given to Mary is there to protect and exalt the divinity of her son. “Mother of God” is the classsic example. If Mary is not the Mother of God, then either Christ is not God (And that is the denial of his divinity-the Arian heresy) or Mary is not his Mother (and that is the denial of his humanity-the Docetist heresy).

 

[yellowbird]

When I was a Protestant I never gave her a second thought. She was NEVER mentioned in church other than at Christmas, and that was just a footnote sort of thing. Once I heard a sermon about how she was not all that special… God had certain requirements that had to be filled… Jewish girl, particular lineage, virgin etc. and Mary fit the bill. She was like a surrogate mother… it was her job to carry the child and she did it - end of story.

I also remember my Pastor making a big deal out of Jesus calling her “woman” in scripture. Maybe at the wedding? Like He didn’t consider her anything special… just a woman.

How sad is that?

 

[Whitacre_Girl]

When I was a Protestant I never gave her a second thought. She was NEVER mentioned in church other than at Christmas, and that was just a footnote sort of thing. Once I heard a sermon about how she was not all that special… God had certain requirements that had to be filled… Jewish girl, particular lineage, virgin etc. and Mary fit the bill. She was like a surrogate mother… it was her job to carry the child and she did it - end of story.

I also remember my Pastor making a big deal out of Jesus calling her “woman” in scripture. Maybe at the wedding? Like He didn’t consider her anything special… just a woman.

How sad is that?

I second this. When I was protestant, Mary was never mentioned except at christmas. I always thought this was really weird considering that she was the woman who gave birth to, and RAISED Jesus for crying out loud. I was always left confused around christmastime for that reason.

 

[AmateurPianist]

I decided on a different approach to the ‘dislike’ thread. I am not using that word. The word I am choosing instead is ‘indifferent’. By the use of this word I mean having no bias, prejudice, or preference; impartial; disinterested. Keeping this in mind now, the question becomes: why are nonCatholic Christians indifferent to Mary, the mother of Jesus?

Well this is better than the other thread. The word “dislike” assumes one knows the heart, which of course you do not. Just like the word “worship”

A comparable statement on the other side would be “Why are Catholic Christians over-the-top with Mary”.

Now, both of these statements “indifferent” and “over-the-top” deal with perceptions which may or may not be accurate.

I am one that you would probably say is “indifferent” to Mary. Now I would dispute that classification, but I’m not particularly offended. From your perspective it would be fair I suppose.

Why? I guess because I am not comfortable with some of the doctrines and practices in regards to Mary which to me are over-the-top. That is all.

 

[BrianH]

We do not discuss Mary often that is very true. When you read the New Testament, Mary is not a central figure in any part of it except the first part of Luke. Mary is the central figure of these chapters. The first three chapters of Luke get mentioned or appear at Christmas. However, usually it is combined with some of Matthew as well. It is possible to go through much of Mark, most of John, almost all of Acts (one reference I believe), but *all *of Paul’s letters (born of a woman does not even use her name), both letters of Peter, James, Hebrews, Jude, and possibly one reference in Revelation without reading about her.
You would have to have access to information from another source and nonCatholics are not going to usually read those sources.

 

[jericho777]

I think as a non catholic I let the bible define Mary and every one else it speaks of. She is certainly not to be hated or disliked. I would not though go past what the bible actually says or teaches about her. No offense to you. Thats my humble opinion.

 

[Newbie2]

When I was a Protestant I never gave her a second thought. She was NEVER mentioned in church other than at Christmas, and that was just a footnote sort of thing. Once I heard a sermon about how she was not all that special… God had certain requirements that had to be filled… Jewish girl, particular lineage, virgin etc. and Mary fit the bill. She was like a surrogate mother… it was her job to carry the child and she did it - end of story.

I also remember my Pastor making a big deal out of Jesus calling her “woman” in scripture. Maybe at the wedding? Like He didn’t consider her anything special… just a woman.

How sad is that?

I’ll third that.

I like your use of “surrogate mother”; kind of like a jug or other vessel used to carry water. Unimportant in itself, discarded when it’s no longer useful.

Well this is better than the other thread. The word “dislike” assumes one knows the heart, which of course you do not. Just like the word “worship”

A comparable statement on the other side would be “Why are Catholic Christians over-the-top with Mary”.

Now, both of these statements “indifferent” and “over-the-top” deal with perceptions which may or may not be accurate.

I am one that you would probably say is “indifferent” to Mary. Now I would dispute that classification, but I’m not particularly offended. From your perspective it would be fair I suppose.

Why? ** I guess because I am not comfortable with some of the doctrines and practices in regards to Mary which to me are over-the-top. ** That is all.

Well, duh. If you consider them “over the top”, of course you wouldn’t be expected to be comfortable with them.

(just pulling your leg, AP)

I think your view reflects that of many non-Catholics, though, in that there seems to be only two ways in current religious practice of looking at Mary; the Catholic way and looking at her as unimportant in salvation history; just another person in the story of Our Lord. There doesn’t seem to be anything inbetween.

That begs the question, though, of why, for example, certain “limited” aspects of Mary that Catholics do believe are not more widely held. Is it the fact that such beliefs are “Catholic” and therefor rejected or because of the beliefs themselves?

Let’s see…take Mary’s submission to God’s will. There’s no biblical indication (using the non-Catholic standard) that she couldn’t have refused God’s request to bear the Son of God. I would think that her willingness to go along with His plan would be something that wouldn’t be controversial, and would be admired and looked at as a model of obedience to follow.

Or is there sort of a slippery-slope notion for non-Catholics, i.e. that once one starts going down the Marian road, so to speak, there is the danger of ending up"worshipping" her as the Catholics do?

 

[CarrieH]

Like others have said, at the Methodist church I attended we simply never talked about Mary except at Christmastime. It wasn’t as if we had any strong feelings about her either way, but when the Nativity set was taken down and packed away in the attic until the next Christmas, so was Our Lady. Out of sight, out of mind. That “Mary-stuff” was for Catholics, after all.

Blessed Mother, forgive me for neglecting you for so many years!

 

[Priscilla_Ann]

I think as a non catholic I let the bible define Mary and every one else it speaks of. She is certainly not to be hated or disliked. I would not though go past what the bible actually says or teaches about her. No offense to you. Thats my humble opinion.

Good answer! I think of Mary, but the only things I know about her for certain are what the bible tells us; and to be honest, the bible does not give a lot of information on Mary…perhaps because salvation is through Christ, not Mary. Mary was obedient to God, and He accomplished His purposes through her because she obeyed God. She serves as a model of total obedience to God.

 

[Newbie2]

Good answer! I think of Mary, but the only things I know about her for certain are what the bible tells us; and to be honest, the bible does not give a lot of information on Mary…perhaps because salvation is through Christ, not Mary. Mary was obedient to God, and He accomplished His purposes through her because she obeyed God. She serves as a model of total obedience to God.

Exactly.

That **begs **the question, as to why this her model isn’t more widely celebrated outside the Catholic Church. I’ve heard many sermons on, for example, the obedience of Abraham in (nearly) offering up his son Issac, but nary a word about Mary’s obedience when I was growing up Lutheran.

 

[jericho777]

Exactly.

That **begs **the question, as to why this her model isn’t more widely celebrated outside the Catholic Church. I’ve heard many sermons on, for example, the obedience of Abraham in (nearly) offering up his son Issac, but nary a word about Mary’s obedience when I was growing up Lutheran.

I have heard sermons about Mary but no more or less than any other bible person.

When my pastor prepares a sermon he seeks G-d on what to preach. Where the Lord leads him to preach he preaches. There is no anti Mary bias about preaching.

 

[Priscilla_Ann]

Exactly.

That **begs **the question, as to why this her model isn’t more widely celebrated outside the Catholic Church. I’ve heard many sermons on, for example, the obedience of Abraham in (nearly) offering up his son Issac, but nary a word about Mary’s obedience when I was growing up Lutheran.

The non-Catholic church that I attend has had several sermons on Mary, focusing on her obedience to God; however, we don’t pray to her or ask for her intercession, since that seems to go way beyond what scripture reveals.

 

[AmericanJosiah]

I decided on a different approach to the ‘dislike’ thread. I am not using that word. The word I am choosing instead is ‘indifferent’. By the use of this word I mean having no bias, prejudice, or preference; impartial; disinterested. Keeping this in mind now, the question becomes: why are nonCatholic Christians indifferent to Mary, the mother of Jesus?

So, it is YOUR position that all persons not officially registered in congregations legally affliated with The Catholic Church are, ergo, “indifferent” toward Mary. Greek Orthodox, Lutherans, Russian Orthodox, Anglicans, Syrian Orthodox - they are all, by virtue of not being formally registered in a Catholic congregation, “indifferent” toward Our Blessed Lady? What is your substantiation for this remarkable claim?

I’m not registered in any congregation legally affiliated with The Catholic Church. I regard Our Lady as the Mother of God (indeed, also OUR Mother), the Queen of Heaven, chief among all the saints. I adore Her, revere Her, hold Her in great esteem, and IN A CERTAIN SENSE, I worship Her (something FEW Catholics will state that they do). And yet - your position is that I’m “indifferent” toward Her by virtue of not being officially registered in a congregation legally affiliated with The Catholic Church.

**What is your substantiation for your position? **



.

 

[AmericanJosiah]

Oddly enough, the Lutheran faith rejected reverance of Mary.

Please quote for me the statement in The Lutheran Confessions (or ANY official position of ANY Lutheran denomination at ANY point in time) that “rejected the reverence of Mary.”

Where is your substantiation for this remarkable claim, entirely news to THIS Lutheran…



.

 

[JonNC]

Oddly enough, Martin Luther had a high regard for Mary. Later, the Lutheran faith and protestant faiths in general, rejected reverance of Mary. They went as far as to point fingers at catholics that revered Mary. It went even further in some denominations. There, catholics are said to worship Mary.

No, Lutherans have only “rejected” invocation. We still hold high reverence and regard for the Theotokos. The following from the LCMS website will, I hope, clear up your misunderstanding of the Lutheran view of the Blessed Virgin.

Mary

Q. I’ve heard that Martin Luther believed in Mary’s immaculate conception, in her perpetual virginity and in praying to her. Is this how Lutherans still view Mary today?

A. Like Luther himself, Lutherans hold Mary in high esteem for the chosen role she played in God’s plan of salvation. Lutherans have never objected to denoting Mary as the “Mother of God” (theotokos, “God-bearer”), since she was the mother of Jesus and Jesus was and is indeed God. Since the Son of God was and is sinless, it is evident that some miraculous “exception” was made in the conception of Jesus through Mary that prevented original sin from tainting the Christ-child. This accounts for Luther’s comments about Mary being “entirely without sin” (as far as the conception was concerned). Lutherans today are not bound to Luther’s personal views regarding how this was accomplished; in any event, it is clear from Luther’s other and later writings on Mary that he did not hold to the view that Mary was personally devoid of all sin (which would mean that she would have had no need of forgiveness or salvation). Luther also held to the semper virgo (the perpetual virginity) of Mary. This, again, is a personal view to which Lutherans today are not bound. Scripture is not clear on this matter, and Lutherans do not regard it as a theological issue.

In his early years Luther was still greatly influenced by his rigorous Roman Catholic and monastic training. In his later writings he clearly rejects invocation to Mary and/or the saints as having no Scriptural mandate or promise. None of this undermines the opening sentence of this e-mail, which should be underscored as the final word on this issue

lcms.org/pages/internal.asp?NavID=2195

Jon

 

[AmateurPianist]

Let’s see…take Mary’s submission to God’s will. There’s no biblical indication (using the non-Catholic standard) that she couldn’t have refused God’s request to bear the Son of God. I would think that her willingness to go along with His plan would be something that wouldn’t be controversial, and would be admired and looked at as a model of obedience to follow.

I have no issues with that.

Or is there sort of a slippery-slope notion for non-Catholics, i.e. that once one starts going down the Marian road, so to speak, there is the danger of ending up"worshipping" her as the Catholics do?

I have no doubt this does exist.

For example I know folks who have a cow over “Mother of God”. While this is not terminology I personally embrace…still…If A=B and B=C then A=C is still a true mathematical formula from what I remember of High School algebra.

 

[peary1]

Exactly.

That **begs **the question, as to why this her model isn’t more widely celebrated outside the Catholic Church. I’ve heard many sermons on, for example, the obedience of Abraham in (nearly) offering up his son Issac, but nary a word about Mary’s obedience when I was growing up Lutheran.

…which is quite interesting because Luther had great devotion to Mary.