Why are people mormon considering it is obvioulsy fabricated?

[ParkerD]

Yes everyone. We should all forget about doctrine and the Truth, about God, and just be nice and hold hands, and that will get us to Heaven…

Religio71,
I have no doubt that you are guided by the parable of the Good Samaritan in your religious beliefs and attitudes. I think that parable would answer your statement here in a very different way than you perhaps had intended. True religion is found in that parable, and it is about how the dominant religion treated strangers as compared with the religious approach of a person who was considered an outcast by that dominant religion. Christ taught this major message of the gospel over and over in His teachings, no? “Love thy neighbor” has to do with how one treats the stranger, of a different religion.

 

[RebeccaJ]

Parker, This I agree with, though, as St. Paul says, “we don’t know how to love as we ought”. For sure, I fail at this more than I like.

Religio has a point though, in that, we should not just pat a person on their back and say believe whatever you like, it is ok. That is not the message of Christianity, either.

Reminds me of you always saying we believe in fear. There is the same balance of effort going on here as well. We should be careful, as it is a sin to believe that we can sin all we like. Likewise, it is a sin to believe that we cannot be forgiven (the gravest sin of all, one against the Holy Spirit).

The object of our faith is Christ. Abide in Him, and there is our hope for Salvation and learning to love as we ought.

A difficult journey, and all are in a different place. I wouldn’t pretend to judge who is where in this journey. That does not mean that we should not teach carefully and accurately, all that has been given to us.

 

[Religio71]

Religio71,
I have no doubt that you are guided by the parable of the Good Samaritan in your religious beliefs and attitudes. I think that parable would answer your statement here in a very different way than you perhaps had intended. True religion is found in that parable, and it is about how the dominant religion treated strangers as compared with the religious approach of a person who was considered an outcast by that dominant religion. Christ taught this major message of the gospel over and over in His teachings, no? “Love thy neighbor” has to do with how one treats the stranger, of a different religion.

ParkerD,

I completely agree. However, I make the distinction between loving our neighbors, and universalism.

 

[zaffiroborant]

Parker, This I agree with, though, as St. Paul says, “we don’t know how to love as we ought”. For sure, I fail at this more than I like.

Religio has a point though, in that, we should not just pat a person on their back and say believe whatever you like, it is ok. That is not the message of Christianity, either.

Reminds me of you always saying we believe in fear. There is the same balance of effort going on here as well. We should be careful, as it is a sin to believe that we can sin all we like. Likewise, it is a sin to believe that we cannot be forgiven (the gravest sin of all, one against the Holy Spirit).

The object of our faith is Christ. Abide in Him, and there is our hope for Salvation and learning to love as we ought.

A difficult journey, and all are in a different place. I wouldn’t pretend to judge who is where in this journey. That does not mean that we should not teach carefully and accurately, all that has been given to us.

And it is quite obvious from Mormon missionary efforts that they also do not believe that it is okay for people to believe as they see fit. Mormons give a great deal (personally to support their children missionaries) to spread their understanding of the gospel. They believe it is important for people to come to their understanding. And yet again it is bad when Catholics feel that their beliefs matter and that they should not declare them and defend them to others, but it’s perfectly okay for mormons to shout their beliefs and proclaim them as the “truth”.

 

[RebeccaJ]

And it is quite obvious from Mormon missionary efforts that they also do not believe that it is okay for people to believe as they see fit. Mormons give a great deal (personally to support their children missionaries) to spread their understanding of the gospel. They believe it is important for people to come to their understanding. And yet again it is bad when Catholics feel that their beliefs matter and that they should not declare them and defend them to others, but it’s perfectly okay for mormons to shout their beliefs and proclaim them as the “truth”.

My experience: Mormons are culturally, competitive. This is just another manifestation of the need to be first. Goes along with all the other lists they make of how they are better, faster, stronger, smarter, devout, etc.

 

[why_me]

You should not feel sorrow for not belonging to their church. You should thank God that you don’t. The sorrow should be directed to them as they have rejected Christ’s true Church.
Notice what I have put in bold above. You talk about the “people” and “them” and how nice they are. It’s not about “them”, it’s about their church and it’s false teachings. The problem with these “nice people” is that they are willing to place many souls in jeopardy by spreading their false teachings based on a man and not Jesus Christ. I don’t find that “nice” at all.

Would you say this if she were meeting with nice lutherns, methodists, penecostals, baptists…etc…

It sounds like the Inquisition is alive and well…

 

[Religio71]

Would you say this if she were meeting with nice lutherns, methodists, penecostals, baptists…etc…

It sounds like the Inquisition is alive and well…

You should take a look at the non-LDS related posts on Non-Catholic Religions.

 

[why_me]

Yes everyone. We should all forget about doctrine and the Truth, about God, and just be nice and hold hands, and that will get us to Heaven…

Be like saint therese and attempt to be a saint by doing small things that lead to goodness. And you will have no problem. But I wouldn’t recommend bashing another’s religion with doctrine. That only sows contention and does not sow sainthood.

 

[why_me]

You should take a look at the non-LDS related posts on Non-Catholic Religions.

They all should be listening to joan baez more.

 

[Religio71]

Be like saint therese and attempt to be a saint by doing small things that lead to goodness. And you will have no problem. But I wouldn’t recommend bashing another’s religion with doctrine. That only sows contention and does not sow sainthood.

Here’s a question: do you think Saint Therese followed Catholic dogma while she did what she was doing? Good works flow from the Faith. Saint Therese would not think that you can be saved by good works and that it doesn’t matter what you believe on Faith and morals.

 

[zaffiroborant]

Be like saint therese and attempt to be a saint by doing small things that lead to goodness. And you will have no problem. But I wouldn’t recommend bashing another’s religion with doctrine. That only sows contention and does not sow sainthood.

Then maybe you should encourage the mormon church to quit sending out missionaries. They have put down my beliefs (specifically) in their proselytizing for the last 9 years, all of them ignoring my “no solicitors” signs. By the way ignoring my sign is illegal in my town, so not only do they put down my beliefs they break the law. It’s a lot like Z ignoring our teachings, D imputing nefarious purpose to our pope and mormon apostles belittling our faith, poor behavior on the part of mormons. But of course you don’t see that. The only thing you can ever see is poor behavior on the part of Catholics. Tell me again how you respect Catholics because I just don’t see it from you.

 

[ParkerD]

Parker, This I agree with, though, as St. Paul says, “we don’t know how to love as we ought”. For sure, I fail at this more than I like.

Religio has a point though, in that, we should not just pat a person on their back and say believe whatever you like, it is ok. That is not the message of Christianity, either.

Reminds me of you always saying we believe in fear. There is the same balance of effort going on here as well. We should be careful, as it is a sin to believe that we can sin all we like. Likewise, it is a sin to believe that we cannot be forgiven (the gravest sin of all, one against the Holy Spirit).

The object of our faith is Christ. Abide in Him, and there is our hope for Salvation and learning to love as we ought.

A difficult journey, and all are in a different place. I wouldn’t pretend to judge who is where in this journey. That does not mean that we should not teach carefully and accurately, all that has been given to us.

Rebecca J,
I really appreciate this response. Well thought, and well said! Thank you.

 

[ParkerD]

ParkerD,

I completely agree. However, I make the distinction between loving our neighbors, and universalism.

Religio71,
I suppose that is a correct approach, but there is no question which is the more important and that if it’s lacking, then the approach is incorrect entirely. It presents a challenge (I think a deliberately placed into mortality kind of challenge). It seems like if we err, it ought to be on the side of acceptance of differences in belief so that two people with those kinds of differences can still bring “loving thy neighbor” to those around them as the major solution for peace in the world.

 

[ParkerD]

And it is quite obvious from Mormon missionary efforts that they also do not believe that it is okay for people to believe as they see fit. Mormons give a great deal (personally to support their children missionaries) to spread their understanding of the gospel. They believe it is important for people to come to their understanding. And yet again it is bad when Catholics feel that their beliefs matter and that they should not declare them and defend them to others, but it’s perfectly okay for mormons to shout their beliefs and proclaim them as the “truth”.

Zaffiroborant,
I think Mormons are taught “that it is okay for people to believe as they see fit.” Mormon children memorize the “articles of faith” as I suppose you know, and when it says “and allow all men the same privilege, let them worship how, where, or what they may…” I think it means exactly that. I think Catholics ought to feel that their beliefs matter and go ahead and declare them and defend them to others and can call them the “truth.” But within the context of “loving thy neighbor”, it would seem to me that there would be a significant desire to understand another’s point of view and perspective leading to an approach in sharing those perspectives in a way that conveys “you undoubtedly know more than I know about your religion so I won’t try to tell you what you believe.”

Since in a later post of yours you brought up Elder Holland’s talk, unless I missed it I don’t think he referred to the Catholic church in that talk and I don’t get the impression that he had the Catholic church in mind when he described a version of the Trinity that he had heard about. Perhaps his research was inadequate (probably was) and perhaps the point didn’t need to be said at all (probably didn’t), but if one thinks about Romney and those he ran against and the media coverage, one can pretty clearly see what he was reacting to with that particular comment.

 

[MelanieAnne]

When I was a Mormon, I always thought Mormons had a belief very similar to purgatory regarding what happens in after we die. There aren’t many who arrive on the other side perfect and ready to be with God.

Correct. God doesn’t need any of this sort of thing, we do.

On a related subject within this thread ~ we need to keep in mind that there are different types of what is discussed in the Bible as “fear”. Persons reading the Bible and taking the meanings of various words as they understand them in the course of everyday life can come away with misunderstanding and the meaning of “fear” is one of those words.

There is “servile” fear ~ which is the sort of fear that a slave may feel toward a master who may beat him for disobedience. Then there is “holy” fear ~ which in our current understanding of language is understood more as “awe”. To have holy fear is to be in awe of God. It has nothing to do with being scared, it is not servile fear. The idea of servile fear is inconsistent with a loving God. When we re-visit various passages that contain the word “fear” with the knowledge that the meaning of the word “fear” is to be in awe of God, we often will come away with an entirely different understanding.

It is true that Catholics “fear” God, in the sense that we are in awe of Him. It is not servile fear, it is holy fear. Those that interpret it as servile fear are often, if not always, incorrect.

 

[MelanieAnne]

The three primary witnesses did see and even handle the plates (Cowdery, Whitmer and Harris) These three were also later excommunicated.

Perhaps that’s what they claimed. Cowdery? Whitmer? Harris? None of those persons has any credibility and at least two of them were involved in the whole BOM fraud. Further, since the so-called “Golden Plates” did not exist, it does raise the question as to in the world they were testifying to. Perhaps to further their own interests in perpetrating the fraud?

 

[mjf001]

Correct. God doesn’t need any of this sort of thing, we do.

On a related subject within this thread ~ we need to keep in mind that there are different types of what is discussed in the Bible as “fear”. Persons reading the Bible and taking the meanings of various words as they understand them in the course of everyday life can come away with misunderstanding and the meaning of “fear” is one of those words.

There is “servile” fear ~ which is the sort of fear that a slave may feel toward a master who may beat him for disobedience. Then there is “holy” fear ~ which in our current understanding of language is understood more as “awe”. To have holy fear is to be in awe of God. It has nothing to do with being scared, it is not servile fear. The idea of servile fear is inconsistent with a loving God. When we re-visit various passages that contain the word “fear” with the knowledge that the meaning of the word “fear” is to be in awe of God, we often will come away with an entirely different understanding.

It is true that Catholics “fear” God, in the sense that we are in awe of Him. It is not servile fear, it is holy fear. Those that interpret it as servile fear are often, if not always, incorrect.

I’d never thought of it quite that way, I like it. Thank you for a different perspective.

Michael

 

[MelanieAnne]

I’d never thought of it quite that way, I like it. Thank you for a different perspective.

Michael

You’re welcome. But it’s not mine. It comes from Fr. Rutler (one of the priests quoted in my signature) who teaches the Catholic faith with an unparalleled eloquence. He teaches the basics and he teaches from a broad range of topics and draws them all together in a unified whole which is truly remarkable.

 

[MelanieAnne]

Just out of curiosity ~ and since I have WhyMe on ignore it’s hard to know when all you see are the quotes in the posts of others ~ has WhyMe yet given a definite answer about going to reconciliation & discussing his Mormonism with his Catholic Pastor? Does he continue to receive the Eucharist after having been baptized a Mormon? Or has the tap-dancing around that subject continued? If so, it has gone on for quite some time (years?) it must be EXHAUSTING!

Seriously, I imagine it must be difficult for anyone caught between conflicting faiths. Much prayer and study is often needed to emerge from such a snare. So while I can confirm what others have stated ~ you cannot be Catholic and Mormon at the same time ~ and further ~ a person who was at one time Catholic who has accepted the Mormon faith and been baptized has excommunicated themselves from the Catholic faith ~ at the same time those of us who are Catholic may not be able to truly understand the enormous pressure there is within Mormonism to conform. A Catholic in a family that is mostly Mormon may just be trying to keep the peace at times.

Having said that, for a Catholic to espouse the tenets of another faith, including Mormonism is heretical. For a Catholic to enter into rituals of another faith, including baptism is to separate from their Catholic faith unless and until reconciliation is effected with a Catholic Priest. Until such reconciliation is effected, to accept the Eucharist is to accept it to one’s damnation.

 

[PaulDupre]

Religio71,
I have no doubt that you are guided by the parable of the Good Samaritan in your religious beliefs and attitudes. I think that parable would answer your statement here in a very different way than you perhaps had intended. True religion is found in that parable, and it is about how the dominant religion treated strangers as compared with the religious approach of a person who was considered an outcast by that dominant religion. Christ taught this major message of the gospel over and over in His teachings, no? “Love thy neighbor” has to do with how one treats the stranger, of a different religion.

“Love the sinner; hate the sin.”