Why are people mormon considering it is obvioulsy fabricated?

[why_me]

Now, on to another of your posts which totally defend the LDS. Still never seen a post where you defend Catholicism, despite your previous protestations to the contrary.

I pray you see the error of your ways,
Michael

I haven’t seen any mormon being critical of the catholic church in the mormon threads. If I did, I would defend the catholic church. Mormons such as Parker and Dianaid have been very polite to catholics as they explain lds doctrine and I haven’t seen them use the language that catholics use for the mormon church to describe the catholic faith. And Zerinus has been around a long time and I see no point in chastizing him. He gives what he gets.

 

[why_me]

You say no one has proved the LDS false? Okay, no one has proved the LDS true, either. This circular logic won’t fly here. You can assert the truth of the LDS all you want, but it will never make it true.

I pray you see the error of your ways,
Michael

My point: a person can not claim that something is not true that has not been proven untrue. It may feel good to do so but it is not a fact. No religion can be proven true. It is all based on faith.

Where have I stated that the lds church is the true church? I only defend the lds church against harsh criticism because I think that it is unwarranted. Also, the words the catholics use to describe the lds church does not fit into the sacrament of reconcilation where it states that harsh words snd judgements need to be avoided.

 

[Catholic20064]

My very dear sir, we have addressed this issue many times on this forum. The fact is, there is a far larger percentage of ‘active’ Mormons than there are ‘active’ Catholics. As in…about 45% of American Mormons attend church to about 28% of American Catholics who do.

I’m talking about people who self-identify as Mormons, not those on the records:

According to this survey only 3,158,000 people self-identify as Mormon in the U.S. compared to 57,000,000 who self-identify as Catholic. Here’s the survey:

livinginliminality.files.wordpress.com/2009/03/aris_report_2008.pdf

The LDS Church claims there are 5,500,000 members in the United States:

allaboutmormons.com/number_of_mormons.php

So the Mormon numbers are inflated by 2,000,000 members in the United States alone! The numbers are even worse when you go to Latin America. The Catholic Church claims 67,000,000 in the U.S. so a much higher percentage of claimed Catholics self-identify as Catholics than the numbers who self-identify as Mormon.

 

[paulp1002]

Actually this is not true at all. No one would encourage divorce in this situation. But they would encourage an attempt to work things out. But nice try in your antimormonism. In fact, women have independent minds in this regard.If they wish a divorce they do not need encouragement.

No she won’t. If she goes for counseling, she will be told that marriage is sacred. She chose to marry a non-Mormon, and divorcing him because he remains a non-Mormon is not good enough as a reason.

I wish you both were right, but in my situation I would have to agree with Paul Dupre.

Originally my wife was okay with me being Catholic and she even agreed to marry me in the Catholic Church. However she spoke to her mom about it and and she said “I don’t want Catholic grandbabies.” Her mom did tell her to talk to the Bishop. The Bishop told my wife that “there are certain things that you should not sacrafice and a temple marriage is one of them. If he can not give you that, then I don’t know if you two are right for each other.” The first marriage counselor we spoke to happened to be Mormon and he said the same thing. “If it’s not negotiable then the marriage probably won’t work out.” None of them gave her any advice that if she truely loved me to make it work and that the marriage is sacred. It’s only sacred if it is done the “Mormon way.” Another counselor who was LDS but was happily married to a non-LDS told us that we should find common ground and build on that if we loved each other. My wife said that she could not do that, it’s either me be Mormon or we can’t be married. And we have been seperated ever since.

The only Mormon to support us, entirely has been her Father. All the other Mormon in her family, Ward etc… has been encouraging her to find a “Mormon guy that she can be sealed too.” No one has said that if you love him make it work.

It seems to me by my own experiences that there are very few Mormon members that follow the 11th Article of Faith and the many talks by the Elders.

My wife strongly believes that if I would to attend church with her I will feel the Holy Spirit and devout myself to the Mormon faith and could marry her in the temple. Both her mom and her have said that they believe that I am possessed by Satan. I find this wrong on so many levels. Just because I find faith in another religion does NOT mean I have been possessed by Satan.

 

[twopekinguys]

I wish you both were right, but in my situation I would have to agree with Paul Dupre.

Originally my wife was okay with me being Catholic and she even agreed to marry me in the Catholic Church. However she spoke to her mom about it and and she said “I don’t want Catholic grandbabies.” Her mom did tell her to talk to the Bishop. The Bishop told my wife that “there are certain things that you should not sacrafice and a temple marriage is one of them. If he can not give you that, then I don’t know if you two are right for each other.” The first marriage counselor we spoke to happened to be Mormon and he said the same thing. “If it’s not negotiable then the marriage probably won’t work out.” None of them gave her any advice that if she truely loved me to make it work and that the marriage is sacred. It’s only sacred if it is done the “Mormon way.” Another counselor who was LDS but was happily married to a non-LDS told us that we should find common ground and build on that if we loved each other. My wife said that she could not do that, it’s either me be Mormon or we can’t be married. And we have been seperated ever since.

The only Mormon to support us, entirely has been her Father. All the other Mormon in her family, Ward etc… has been encouraging her to find a “Mormon guy that she can be sealed too.” No one has said that if you love him make it work.

It seems to me by my own experiences that there are very few Mormon members that follow the 11th Article of Faith and the many talks by the Elders.

My wife strongly believes that if I would to attend church with her I will feel the Holy Spirit and devout myself to the Mormon faith and could marry her in the temple. Both her mom and her have said that they believe that I am possessed by Satan. I find this wrong on so many levels. Just because I find faith in another religion does NOT mean I have been possessed by Satan.

I’m not a counselor by any means, but it sounds like you are trying your best to resolve this issue.

It is a shame that most of her family and friends cannot support both of you in this situation. How is your family reacting?

The conversation that she had with her mother, was that before you got married? Did you actually get married in the Catholic Church?

If you did get married in the Church, did you go through Pre-Cana? How was this issue handled there?

Your situation is not totally unique with inter-faith marriages. Some work out great, and others don’t.

Many people think that once they are married, they can get their spouse to “change” in one way or another. Unfortunately, it doesn’t always work out that way.

My parents were an inter-faith marriage, and they were married for 52 years. It wasn’t always easy, but they worked at it, and I think they were very successful, if I do say so myself.

I really do wish you the best, and pray that a positve resolution can be found.

 

[SecretBeliever]

To you Christians, you’ll probably find this very surprising and upsetting. To you Mormons, you’ll scoff at everything you read on these sites. My question to you is: How do you explain the vast numbers of people who are “recovering Mormons” with their horror stories, if it is the “true church”?

mormonnomore.com/
exmormon.org/

I have seen other sites like these but their URLs escape me at the moment. BTW, I dabbled in the Mormon faith briefly when I was young. I earnestly, sincerely urge you LDS folks here to look to the Catholic Church.

 

[RebeccaJ]

How do you explain the vast numbers of people who are “recovering Mormons” with their horror stories, if it is the “true church”?

answer here:
forums.catholic-questions.org/showpost.php?p=5533531&postcount=16

 

[cthulhubryan]

Wait a minute here, buddy. True, the University of Utah ranks 127 in the US News rankings. That’s rather good.

Brigham Young University, however, ranks 113.

They are both Tier 1 schools.

So there.

hmph.

(of course, the college I graduated from is Tier 3 and doesn’t come close to either one. Darn it.)

Ranking Smanking. The U rules, the Y drools. Deal with it
<walks away humming “I’m a Utah Man”>

 

[why_me]

To you Christians, you’ll probably find this very surprising and upsetting. To you Mormons, you’ll scoff at everything you read on these sites. My question to you is: How do you explain the vast numbers of people who are “recovering Mormons” with their horror stories, if it is the “true church”?

mormonnomore.com/
exmormon.org/

I have seen other sites like these but their URLs escape me at the moment. BTW, I dabbled in the Mormon faith briefly when I was young. I earnestly, sincerely urge you LDS folks here to look to the Catholic Church.

I would not call them recovering mormons. But I would call them people who left the lds church. The mormon truth claims are very strong and powerful. And I would bet a dollar that many of these people felt the truth claim or as mormons would say: the spirit of the holy ghost.

However all faiths have recovering former members, including the Roman Catholic Church:

angelfire.com/ma/romewatch/page9.html

How do you explain the numbers leaving the catholic church? My point: people leave for various reasons but that doesn’t make it false.

 

[Religio71]

I would not call them recovering mormons. But I would call them people who left the lds church. The mormon truth claims are very strong and powerful. And I would bet a dollar that many of these people felt the truth claim or as mormons would say: the spirit of the holy ghost.

However all faiths have recovering former members, including the Roman Catholic Church:

angelfire.com/ma/romewatch/page9.html

How do you explain the numbers leaving the catholic church? My point: people leave for various reasons but that doesn’t make it false.

And yet, as a “Catholic” you don’t even say that the Catholic truth claims are very strong and powerful, and that Catholics that leave it felt the Holy Spirit…

The sad thing is, if someone leaves the Church after feeling the Holy Spirit and knowing the Truth of the Church, well, may God have mercy on their soul.

 

[Religio71]

Completely agree. I’ve been lurking here for over a year or so before I signed up. I have yet to see him side with Catholicism over Mormonism.

 

[RoryMcKenzie56]

With all of the evidence that proves beyond a reasonable doubt that mormonism is a sham, why do people still buy into it? It almost makes me think that reason will not always work in apologetics. its as if mormonism (and islam among others) trivialize faith by making it appear unreasonable.

Hi Dee Dee King,

I think those of us who consider ourselves jurors have to give them their “day in court”. I have read a few books by LDS authors. They don’t successfully prove the truth of Mormonism. But they don’t need to. Defense is always so much easier. If I am on the jury deciding the case of whether the evidence proves beyond a reasonable doubt that Mormonism is a sham, it is a hung jury. Unless we can appeal to the truth of Catholicism, I vote for acquittal. There is not enough evidence to condemn it as a sham. I’ll try to briefly speak for my position on this.

A case in point would be the development of a theory which posits a limited geography in the Book of Mormon. In other words, it is figurative not history. Now, I believe Genesis is history from top to bottom. But I suspect there might be one or two Catholics here who take the recent theory that perhaps Genesis is figurative. If we condemn the Mormons for such an easy escape from the fallacies of Book of Mormon geography and a recent theory to go with it, we had better look in the mirror first. I hope we can see the problem.

The only evidence beyond a reasonable doubt about Mormonism for me is that the Catholic Church is true. But this does not make Mormonism a sham to anyone except Catholics. The LDS Restoration makes a lot more sense to me than the Protestant Reformation. At least 83% of the earth’s population reject Catholic claims. If I was among them, I might be satisfied with LDS apologetics regarding their own history and origins. Even if no one else would go this far, I am suggesting that we are being hasty if we are saying that they believe an obvious sham before we have availed ourselves of a lot of what they have to say for themselves in their own literature. Sure we need to support the truth. In my opinion, the truth is that Mormons have ordinary IQ’s, and even if they were just plain dumb, no one is going to be driven into the truth by questioning their intelligence.

Rory

 

[twopekinguys]

I have yet to see him side with Catholicism over Mormonism.

I doubt whether you or I will ever see the day he sides with the Catholic Church.

If anything, he is more of a Google Catholic, in the way he talks about the Church. Getting his answers from Google. It is completely laughable.

Just more Lying for the Lord.

Everyone is on to him, and he’s too blind to see it.

His hate and contempt for the church is obvious.

 

[why_me]

A case in point would be the development of a theory which posits a limited geography in the Book of Mormon. In other words, it is figurative not history. Now, I believe Genesis is history from top to bottom. But I suspect there might be one or two Catholics here who take the recent theory that perhaps Genesis is figurative. If we condemn the Mormons for such an easy escape from the fallacies of Book of Mormon geography and a recent theory to go with it, we had better look in the mirror first. I hope we can see the problem.

Rory

There has been a debate within the lds church over the hemispheric model or limited geography model. I would say that the hemispheric model held sway for quite some time but now it seems that the limited geographic model is catching on. But in no way do mormons claim that it is all figurative. Mormons believe that the book of mormon is an historical account of a people who lived in the new world.

 

[why_me]

I doubt whether you or I will ever see the day he sides with the Catholic Church.

If anything, he is more of a Google Catholic, in the way he talks about the Church. Getting his answers from Google. It is completely laughable.

Just more Lying for the Lord.

Everyone is on to him, and he’s too blind to see it.

His hate and contempt for the church is obvious.

I defend the catholic church when I feel that it is necessary. You would be surprised how I defend the catholic church. But on this forum it does not need defending. I mainly post on mormon threads and mormons are not writing catholic bashing posts. They seem polite and attempt to answer the questions posed to them. I see no anticatholic posts from the mormons. But I do see antimormon posts from the catholics.

At this moment I am reading a biography of Saint Faustina who is a favorite of mine and whose diary I have read. I also like Dorothy Day, the founder of the Catholic Worker. And Saint Therese is also a favority of mine because of her ‘little way’. Catholics writing antimormon posts need to discover her little way and show kindness to those they might not agree with.

I only follow the teachings of the saints I admire: Faustina and mercy, Dorothy Day and social justice and saint therese and her little way.

 

[Religio71]

I defend the catholic church when I feel that it is necessary. You would be surprised how I defend the catholic church. But on this forum it does not need defending. I mainly post on mormon threads and mormons are not writing catholic bashing posts. They seem polite and attempt to answer the questions posed to them. I see no anticatholic posts from the mormons. But I do see antimormon posts from the catholics.

At this moment I am reading a biography of Saint Faustina who is a favorite of mine and whose diary I have read. I also like Dorothy Day, the founder of the Catholic Worker. And Saint Therese is also a favority of mine because of her ‘little way’. Catholics writing antimormon posts need to discover her little way and show kindness to those they might not agree with.

I only follow the teachings of the saints I admire: Faustina and mercy, Dorothy Day and social justice and saint therese and her little way.

Thank you for not continuously defending the Faith no matter who or where you are talking, whether it’s Catholic Land or Mormon Land.

 

[twopekinguys]

I defend the catholic church when I feel that it is necessary. You would be surprised how I defend the catholic church. But on this forum it does not need defending. I mainly post on mormon threads and mormons are not writing catholic bashing posts. They seem polite and attempt to answer the questions posed to them. I see no anticatholic posts from the mormons. But I do see antimormon posts from the catholics.

At this moment I am reading a biography of Saint Faustina who is a favorite of mine and whose diary I have read. I also like Dorothy Day, the founder of the Catholic Worker. And Saint Therese is also a favority of mine because of her ‘little way’. Catholics writing antimormon posts need to discover her little way and show kindness to those they might not agree with.

I only follow the teachings of the saints I admire: Faustina and mercy, Dorothy Day and social justice and saint therese and her little way.

Your quote should say…“You would be suprised **IF **I defend the Catholic Church”

And I agree totally with what Religio says…“Thank you for not continuously defending the Faith no matter who or where you are talking”

Your little drive by swipes at the Catholic Church on this forum have been well noted over the years.

You can read all about the different Saints, but if none of it sinks in, it’s not doing you any good.

 

[RoryMcKenzie56]

There has been a debate within the lds church over the hemispheric model or limited geography model. I would say that the hemispheric model held sway for quite some time but now it seems that the limited geographic model is catching on. But in no way do mormons claim that it is all figurative. Mormons believe that the book of mormon is an historical account of a people who lived in the new world.

Hi why me

Well that is embarrassing. I am disappointed in myself. I should have used an illustration I understood better but it came to mind and I didn’t have the energy to research it better. So you guys could never go to a largely allegorical, figurative interpretation as Catholics have with the early chapters of Genesis? Oh well. I still hold to my original premise, but for good reason, my Catholic friends won’t be terribly impressed with my first attempt at explaining and defending LDS teaching.

Rory, aka 3DOP

 

[why_me]

Hi why me

Well that is embarrassing. I am disappointed in myself. I should have used an illustration I understood better but it came to mind and I didn’t have the energy to research it better. So you guys could never go to a largely allegorical, figurative interpretation as Catholics have with the early chapters of Genesis? Oh well. I still hold to my original premise, but for good reason, my Catholic friends won’t be terribly impressed with my first attempt at explaining and defending LDS teaching.

Rory, aka 3DOP

Glad that you are here. At least you can tell my friends here that I am not writing negative comments about the catholic church on MAD. I think that I have written some nice comments about the catholic church on that site.

You should have known because of your posting on MAD that the book of mormon can never be taken figuratively. The lds church would fall by the wayside if they ever put a figurative spin on it all. It must be a true record of what happened within that timeframe.

Don’t be too hard on yourself. We all make mistakes.

Since you have been reading what the catholics are saying about the mormon church, I think that you can agree that never would such posts be permitted against the catholic church on MAD. Am I right?

 

[Religio71]

whyme actually created a thread on MADB all about how “nice” this website is, as in, how because Catholic Answers wants to proclaim the Truth of the Catholic Faith, and what we perceive as the falsehoods of another, it is anti-Mormon. He has a couple of these threads about how “not nice” we are over here. Newsflash: Catholicism believes that it is the Church of Jesus Christ. We believe that we are the Church founded by Christ, continuing the fullness of the Gospel. Therefore, we see all other faiths as being based in non-truth. That is especially true for the LDS Church, which says that Christianity apostasized, and therefore they are the restoration of true Christianity. We don’t believe that, and that is why we discuss what we see as the falsehoods of the LDS Church. While many may be nice people, being nice doesn’t mean salvation. So if you don’t like us saying that the LDS Church is based on falsehoods, which, if we are to actually *believe * Catholic doctrine, then you can always go back to MADB. The very statement that the Catholic Church is the true Church of Christ, with the fullness of the Gospel, means that the LDS Church is not God-given. Plain and simple.

You should always defend your Faith no matter what. Look at the martyrs of the Church. It’s not “oh, I don’t need to defend it here”. You defend Mormonism always, but never defend Catholicism. You say the Mormon truth claims are strong and powerful, and they feel the Holy Spirit. We haven’t seen you say that to the Mormons here in reference to Catholicism.

Oh well, what can we expect from someone whose avatar on MADB is Joseph Smith.