Has the bible been proven true? Has faith gone out the window? To my knowledge no one has proven the bible true. And to my knowledge many saints have experienced the dark night of the soul as their faith was tested. Saint Therese and Mother Theresa come to mind. In fact, Saint Therese even doubted heaven existed during her last moments until she saw her vision of heaven on her deathbed.
Of course. Do you?
Great!
Then yes, I do believe that we should encourage those non-Catholics to come to the fullness of Truth only found in the Church, and though we may have many things in common, unfortunately their religions are based on many falsehoods, and I do see it as a sham for those falling for it. Especially the multitude of them claiming to be founded by people having a vision of a new revelation. The LDS Church is not unique in this regard.I do believe that at the time of martin luther, the church thought that he was a sham. And since that is the case, his religion would be considered a sham and all the off shoots from the reformation. Now of course, the catholic church would never put it that way, but they must believe it. If not, the catholic church would not be an exception and others would be allowed to take the communion.
Exactly. Likewise, the LDS Church sees all other churches as shams, and in fact, this is how their scripture refers to them:
Not really. It is never moot to investigate someone’s claims or the claims of another faith. And what makes the mormon faith interesting and strong are the witnesses. They had nothing to gain by lying throughout their lives. But they did have something to gain if they were to tell the truth, if the faith were a sham.
Do you see now how much the mormon and catholic church have in common. In fact, one reason why some former mormons join the catholic church is because of its truth claims. To most mormon understanding, there can only be two churches that can claim truth: the lds or catholic church.
You’re missing the point. It’s not whether something has been proven to be true, but the facts are that the Book of Mormon has proven to be false, a work of 19th century fiction. People can speculate as to who the author was, but the facts are that it is a work of fiction, not scripture as portrayed in Joseph Smith’s story about its origins.
The Church does not, and neither has it ever, thought that Luther was a ‘sham’, as this would imply that Luther was willfully deceiving others against his conscience and against what his intellect perceived as fact. Do you not understand that a sham is the work of deceit, and not of the genuine expression of the heart of a man? A sham is different from theological and ecclesiastical error, which is how Protestantism has been seen by the Church.
I would sooner join the Orthodox Church than rejoin the LDS Church. And yes, the truth claims are great, especially considering you claim to be Catholic and Mormon, each with mutually exclusive truth claims.
Two piece cotton knit, Paul.I agree. I have no problem with liturgical clothing (or underclothing). You are quite correct that it is similar to a Catholic scapular, meant to remind you of your beliefs and covenants.
Well, I remember the old one-piece cotton garments I had to wear on my mission to Taiwan (where it was about a billion degrees and 90+% humidity) under my black dress slacks, white shirt and tie. We were always soaking wet under our clothes. That was really miserable and all the missionaries had skin fungus problems.I’m glad for you that you have the newer one-piece garments made of more breatheable fabric.
Paul
VERY nice.They had plenty to lose.
You’re making stuff up. “most mormon”. please. Be rational. Most mormons believe everyone is wrong. Period.
I guess the fact that these “witnesses” didn’t actually SEE the so-called “golden plates” isn’t troublesome for some people.
Their religions are also based on many truths.Great!
As I said, “we share many thing in common”. And I think your statement is more accurately “they have many truths”. The basis of the LDS faith, the very reason why it exists, is that Christianity apostasized, and that all other churches are false and do not have any priesthood authority.
You’re right about Mormons leading good lives, but that doesn’t make Mormonism correct any more than righteous Muslims make Islam correct. From my understanding, the Catechism itself is not considered scripture. It is a guide regarding the Catholic Church’s teachings which are derived from the Bible ultimately. To answer your closing question, all churches that do not teach the whole truth are part of the Church of the Devil, according to Mormonism. By your own standards, one of us is indeed that church. It seems odd to me to call it disrespectful if I use that standard, but perfectly fine if your church does.
With all due respect, no LDS I’ve ever spoken to has ever given me more than a subjective reason for believing in the LDS faith. Every argument my family and friends ever gave me while I was struggling for answers as an 18 year old was subjective. Some subjective is okay, that’s why we have faith. But there should be some foundation of objective truth. As far as I can see, all objective truth in the LDS comes from the Church Christ actually founded or Judaism, where his Church originated. The ten commandments, the Bible, the family friendly lifestyle, were already present when Joseph Smith made his “revelations” public. I see no evidence, not a shred, for LDS truth claims.
