Why are people mormon considering it is obvioulsy fabricated?

[why_me]

Sister Emma didn’t like coffee and tea and thus the revelation.

Nice try. Sister Emma did not like cleaning up all the spit from the chewing tobacco. Joseph Smith took it to the lord and out came the word of wisdom. However at that time it was a recommendation but now it is much more than a recommendation. And by the way, there would be a lot more catholics alive today if they also had the mormon word of wisdom and I am including my own relatives in this.

 

[why_me]

No, it is you who does not get it.

Recent research shows benefits to wine and coffee.

Pretty much mormons ignore the part about eating meat sparingly.

Actually recent research has shown the effects of using even a little alcohol. And coffee, well give some to a pregnant woman and see if it is okay. And why is decaf so popular??

Also, I never met an alcoholic who didn’t take a first drink

 

[why_me]

Lent is a time of interior pilgrimage towards Him. Giving up something during Lent is based on penance, not promise. Doing something extra (good works) is just as good as obstaining.

Whatever…the point is that catholics do it. And they do it because they believe that god expects it from them. Now a protestant doesn’t bother with lent. And so, they must look at it a little differently.

 

[why_me]

Very nice, out on the plaza. Thanks for asking. And you?

Nope…closed for the summer.

 

[why_me]

None ever did, but the three primary “witnesses” were all excommunicated when they disagreed with JSJ. They even backed a different person to succeed JSJ. They Supported Strang who then formed the LDS-Strangite group until he was murdered.

Well, if you were in on the fraud, and the main fraudster excommunicates you…what would you do? Let me know!

 

[RebeccaJ]

Actually recent research has shown the effects of using even a little alcohol. And coffee, well give some to a pregnant woman and see if it is okay. And why is decaf so popular??

Moderation whyme. All things in moderation.

Also, I never met an alcoholic who didn’t take a first drink

This is a “mormonism”, ie, anyone who has any amount of alcohol, even that first drink, is an alcoholic. You need to get over this. Millions of people drink alcohol who are not alcoholics.

 

[why_me]

This is a strange comment that doesn’t make sense, or I don’t get the joke.

I do really really wonder about the coffee thing. What about decaffinaeted coffee? Thats forbidden too I hear. Why? Something secretly bad about coffee? Why would God allow that, when Coke is a lot worse. Spikes your acidity level and puts your body into shock. And Pepsi. Someone once told me the Mormons own a lot of PepsiCo. Don’t know if thats true.

What about High Fructose Corn Syrup?? Thats a lot worse than coffee, and its everywhere.

Just doesn’t make sense. The Seventh Day Adventist food rules make more sense frankly.

If you would stop being so judgemental for a while you would understand that Rebecca’s church has a coffee hour. And so I asked her how it went or if it is closed for the summer. My church has a coffee hour but it is closed for the summer. Okay?

 

[RebeccaJ]

Nope…closed for the summer.

Yeah, my other parish rarely has coffee hour. Sometimes though the KofC do up a full hot breakfast.

 

[why_me]

Moderation whyme. All things in moderation.

This is a “mormonism”, ie, anyone who has any amount of alcohol, even that first drink, is an alcoholic. You need to get over this. Millions of people drink alcohol who are not alcoholics.

I have tried to tell this to my cousin but she still puts away a few bottles a day…and she is drunk everynight. Now if only she didn’t take that first drink…all would be well.

 

[why_me]

Yeah, my other parish rarely has coffee hour. Sometimes though the KofC do up a full hot breakfast.

I could go for that. If I am ever in Salt Lake and going to Mass I will wear a sandwhich sign saying: Hi, I’m Why Me! Tap me on the shoulder and we can have a nice chat during coffee hour. But I am far from Salt Lake…

 

[RebeccaJ]

Whatever…the point is that catholics do it. And they do it because they believe that god expects it from them. Now a protestant doesn’t bother with lent. And so, they must look at it a little differently.

whyme, the point was made that Lent and the WoW are similar. They aren’t. Obviously, “Catholics do it”. Do you find Lent a bother? Lutherans, Methodists and Anglicans do “bother” with Lent.

 

[cthulhubryan]

Which, if you think about it, makes their testimony more believable, not less.

There is that.

 

[why_me]

Originally Posted by ricko
And for the three witnesses we have this:

That the Three Witnesses were a gullible sort is illustrated by an incident in July, 1837. Joseph had left on a five-week missionary tour to Canada, only to find on his return that all three of the Witnesses had joined a faction opposing him. This faction rallied around a young girl who claimed to be a seeress by virtue of a black stone in which she read the future. David Whitmer, Martin Harris, and Oliver Cowdery all pledged her their loyalty, and Frederick G. Williams, formerly Joseph’s First Counselor, became her scribe. The girl seeress would dance herself into a state of exhaustion, fall to the floor, and burst forth with revelations. (See Lucy Smith: Biographical Sketches, pp. 211-213).

I have never heard of this. But what would it matter? Lets remember the experience of Moses when he returned from the mountain with the tablets. It was not very pleasant, was it?

And we need to remember that JS’s mom wrote her sketch years after the event. And it was published by the lds church. But it is also known that there are some inaccuracies in it. When one is old and attempts to remember the past, things can become confusing and convuluted. Also, she had her son in her mind and she loved her son. She lost two sons when JS was murdered in prison. His brother was also murdered at the same time.

 

[RebeccaJ]

I have tried to tell this to my cousin but she still puts away a few bottles a day…and she is drunk everynight. Now if only she didn’t take that first drink…all would be well.

Yes, I have family who are effected by alcoholism.

I have no problem with the WoW whyme. I’ve never tried to make an adult eat or drink something they don’t want. I have Hindu acquaintances that are very strict vegetarians, and one Jewish consultant I work with who lives in Israel and is very orthodox in his diet. If I go out or get take out for these folks, I respect their beliefs and look for restaurants that meet their needs.

Religiously speaking, Lent has a very pointed purpose, as does abstinence from meat on Fridays. A Catholic can explain the reasoning behind these practices. WoW is “just cuz”, and there is a lookout for health benefits to provide some sort of validation. mormons seem to think it gives them some sort of upper edge. Those are the only reasons I see for the WoW belief and practice. Any sort of reasoning can be used to dismiss these reasons and all you are left with is what Diana gives…promise keeping for the sake of the promise.

 

[why_me]

whyme, the point was made that Lent and the WoW are similar. They aren’t. Obviously, “Catholics do it”. Do you find Lent a bother? Lutherans, Methodists and Anglicans do “bother” with Lent.

Actually I never understood lent. I saw it as abstaining from what is enjoyed and then after lent go back to the old habit. For example, there are catholics who abstain from gambling and cigarettes. But then after lent, it is casino and smoke time. I just don’t buy it all.

 

[RebeccaJ]

Actually I never understood lent. I saw it as abstaining from what is enjoyed and then after lent go back to the old habit. For example, there are catholics who abstain from gambling and cigarettes. But then after lent, it is casino and smoke time. I just don’t buy it all.

Lent is not about breaking habits. I suggest you go to the Vatican website and read the annual Lenten messages. They explain very well the purpose of Lenten sacrifices.

 

[RebeccaJ]

I could go for that. If I am ever in Salt Lake and going to Mass I will wear a sandwhich sign saying: Hi, I’m Why Me! Tap me on the shoulder and we can have a nice chat during coffee hour. But I am far from Salt Lake…

Well, I’ve met people who are far from home, at mass and coffee hour afterward.

The Cathedral is my usual home. Their usual coffee hour includes punch, tea and of course water, with a large spread of carbie-sweets, donuts and the like. Once in a while someone does up a full breakfast.

This week is party time, as we celebrate 100 years. Cardinal Levada and bunches of Bishops will be in on Friday and Saturday. I plan on going to a lecture on Tues. which is followed by munchies. And Friday vespers. Very much looking forward to it. I wish I could go to everything every night this week. Life gets in the way!

Last night was a community civic night. Pres. Monson gave a speech.

ksl.com/?nid=148&sid=7476772

 

[zaffiroborant]

Actually recent research has shown the effects of using even a little alcohol. And coffee, well give some to a pregnant woman and see if it is okay. And why is decaf so popular??

Also, I never met an alcoholic who didn’t take a first drink

Over blowing the coffee thing a bit there. Rebecca is correct recently coffee and wine have been shown to be beneficial. And green tea has quite a long list of benefits.

 

[dianaiad]

It’s not about a promise. There is no penitential aspect to the WoW.

No, there isn’t any "penitential aspect’ to the Word of Wisdom.

That’s rather the point. By taking portions of it (good health advice) and promising to obey those aspects of it, we turned THAT into a promise to God.

Catholics do this all the time, as far as I know; ask for intercession–and promise to do something, or abstain from something, in return. When a priest hands out a task for a penitent to do–saying a certain number of “Hail Mary’s” for instance, or a specific task…do you honestly believe that it is the TASK that God is interested in?

I don’t think so. It is the willingness of the penitent to obey, to make a commitment and to follow through.

This is one of the things we do. We have promised to take part of the Word of Wisdom, and by promising to abstain from these things, THAT becomes the thing that has the ‘penitential’ aspect; not that coffee or tea or booze or cigarettes are evil in and of themselves, because they aren’t. (not to bright health wise, perhaps, but that’s different) But, having promised to abstain from them, then breaking that promise? That is the thing that is the problem.

 

[dianaiad]

No, it is you who does not get it.

Recent research shows benefits to wine and coffee.

Pretty much mormons ignore the part about eating meat sparingly.

As to wine, those same benefits are found in grape juice. As to coffee, the studies show that consumption of coffee can really help prevent Parkinson’s disease and diabetes. How?

Caffeine for the Parkinsons, and caffeine plus antioxidants for the diabetes. Wonderful–get those same things elsewhere. I do.

At the same time, research ALSO shows that the alcohol in wine isn’t healthful; it’s the other things, and that neither wine nor coffee are recommended for children or pregnant women.

However, if you aren’t Mormon, and haven’t promised to abstain, enjoy. It’s not a sin, after all. Breaking a promise, however, is.

here’s a question for you: until a couple of decades or so ago eating meat on Friday was considered a sin for Catholics. That changed. The reason why it changed is irrelevant; it changed. Before the change, good Catholics did not eat meat on Friday. It was a part of being Catholic; a promise, an identifier–and it was a promise that lasted for many hundreds of years.

Obviously there was nothing wrong with eating meat; you ate it on the other days of the week, and you may eat it every day of the week now. So–the sin wasn’t in the eating of the meat, was it?