Why are so many Catholics pro-choice?

[Rau]

If it’s not a human being, what is it?

godslittleones.com/microplasticase.html

Ed

Indeed. You’d need to ask those who feel free to abort on that basis.

 

[edwest2]

I think so many Catholics–and Theists in general–are pro-choice because they take their God’s lead.
Since Gods seemingly gave people a certain amount of “free will”… it seems logical that we must, in our laws, also give people a certain amount of free will when it comes to what they do with their body–whether we agree with their choices or not.

Also, because the definition of when life begins varies and cannot be defined for all to agree on unanimously…that has an influence on people’s perspective regarding choice.

.

Any Embryologist would tell us that human life begins at conception. This is a fact.

Free will does not override Church teaching that all human life must be protected from conception till natural death. Of course, some people do not accept this teaching or were told “it’s just a blob of tissue.” If that were true then the mother would give birth to a blob of tissue, which would not be an issue. But we know that abortion kills a human being.

Ed

 

[tifischer]

I think so many Catholics–and Theists in general–are pro-choice because they take their God’s lead.
Since Gods seemingly gave people a certain amount of “free will”… it seems logical that we must, in our laws, also give people a certain amount of free will when it comes to what they do with their body–whether we agree with their choices or not.

Also, because the definition of when life begins varies and cannot be defined for all to agree on unanimously…that has an influence on people’s perspective regarding choice.

.

Seems to me we did not get total free will…there were the 10 commandments…Thou shalt not kill is #5 Exodus 20:13

As Christians we should all know when life begins…that is my point.

 

[tifischer]

I did not advocate that the newly conceived is not a person, though you appear to have concluded I did. I identified what I believe is a common justification for abortion.

I apologize for the misunderstanding.

 

[Rau]

Perhaps they don’t believe what the church teaches is correct?

The Church teaches that innocent human life must not be killed. Science tells us that life begins at conception. When speaking against abortion, the Church really does no more than highlight the implications of these 2 principles.

Those who abort reject one of these principles at least. Which one?

 

[Rau]

I apologize for the misunderstanding.

No problem.

 

[tifischer]

Seems to me we did not get total free will…there were the 10 commandments…Thou shalt not kill is #5 Exodus 20:13

As Christians we should all know when life begins…that is my point.

Forgive me I misspoke there are 10 commandments.

So, as Christians we have already made our free will to follow God and God clearly said I don’t want you to live in sin. No one, even non-Christians believe in total free will that people should have the right to choose to kill whoever they like…that would be anarchy, right?

Blessings!

 

[tifischer]

The Church teaches that innocent human life must not be killed. Science tells us that life begins at conception. When speaking against abortion, the Church really does no more than highlight the implications of these 2 principles.

Those who abort reject one of these principles at least. Which one?

Or, they are not getting taught either message? They are learning that the law says it is ok so they accept it as ok. Or they are taught something else.

 

[LongingSoul]

Only a portion of the Catholic community attend weekly mass so I would say that reasoning that those who attend weekly are more likely to be pro-life (67%) is not impressive. If you were to tell me that those devout Catholics who attend every week are (>90%) pro-life that would be much more impressive. However to say that our devout population is only (67%) pro-life is not impressive. The percent of Catholics who attend mass weekly is closer to 45% of the Catholic population.

The 2013 article theblaze.com/stories/2013/05/16/these-americans-are-the-most-and-least-likely-to-support-abortion-plus-are-most-women-really-pro-choice/

There will be some differences in statistics when you compare peoples political understanding and their moral understanding. I’m quite sure that had the poll asked who believes that abortion is immoral no doubt you would get 100% for practicing Catholics but many citizens will feel inclined to tolerate a thing civilly in deferrence to the authority of the State. You’d get the same regarding adultery. The vast majority of practicing Catholics behold that as intrinsically evil but would respect the States tolerance of it in their capacity to govern.

 

[tifischer]

There will be some differences in statistics when you compare peoples political understanding and their moral understanding. I’m quite sure that had the poll asked who believes that abortion is immoral no doubt you would get 100% for practicing Catholics but many citizens will feel inclined to tolerate a thing civilly in deferrence to the authority of the State. You’d get the same regarding adultery. The vast majority of practicing Catholics behold that as intrinsically evil but would respect the States tolerance of it in their capacity to govern.

I have seen many people driving into abortion clinics with their rosary dangling from their rear view mirror. There is no such thing as tolerate abortion civilly in deferrence (respect) to the authority of the State. We vote for the authority…there for you are suggesting that accepting abortion in deferrence to us…respecting our own authority rather than the Lord’s?

Another point is that perhaps if those pro-choice Catholics are truly the anti-abortion pro-choice in deferrence people that you say then we should teach that they should be anti-abortion in their opinions when they are being polled so that a true statistic of the moral nature of the Catholic community will be represented.

 

[Rau]

I have seen many people driving into abortion clinics with their rosary dangling from their rear view mirror. There is no such thing as tolerate abortion civilly in deferrence (respect) to the authority of the State. We vote for the authority…there for you are suggesting that accepting abortion in deferrence to us…respecting our own authority rather than the Lord’s?

Another point is that perhaps if those pro-choice Catholics are truly the anti-abortion pro-choice in deferrence people that you say then we should teach that they should be anti-abortion in their opinions when they are being polled so that a true statistic of the moral nature of the Catholic community will be represented.

There is a view, not at all uncommon, that one need not feel obliged to vote for a law that constrains others from an act that one personally holds to be immoral.

Now, of course the acts (in private, to avoid confusion) that one might feel subject to that view fall on a spectrum. As examples, Catholics hold masturbation, sodomy, contraception and abortion to be immoral. But, noone would suggest masturbation be illegal. Very few would suggest sodomy or contraception be illegal. And perhaps a larger number would suggest abortion should be illegal.

So our moral positions are transferred with differing zeal into the societal context. The implications for poll questions such as:
“Do you support a woman’s right to abortion”, or
“Should abortion be illegal”
are obvious.

 

[edwest2]

For Catholics, what the Church teaches should be the guiding light, not published “opinions.” Opinions often do not line up with the truth. And the greatest problem facing society today is the misuse of the human sexual faculty.

Ed

 

[tifischer]

There is a view, not at all uncommon, that one need not feel obliged to vote for a law that constrains others from an act that one personally holds to be immoral.

Now, of course the acts (in private, to avoid confusion) that one might feel subject to that view fall on a spectrum. As examples, Catholics hold masturbation, sodomy, contraception and abortion to be immoral. But, noone would suggest masturbation be illegal. Very few would suggest sodomy or contraception be illegal. And perhaps a larger number would suggest abortion should be illegal.

So our moral positions are transferred with differing zeal into the societal context. The implications for poll questions such as:
“Do you support a woman’s right to abortion”, or
“Should abortion be illegal”
are obvious.

But thou shalt not kill is a commandment…there are only 10. Lord have mercy, can we all agree on those? : (

 

[tifischer]

For Catholics, what the Church teaches should be the guiding light, not published “opinions.” Opinions often do not line up with the truth. And the greatest problem facing society today is the misuse of the human sexual faculty.

Ed

Right…like when did it become ok to have ladies in the underwear billboard style in front of the parks where the children play…hello Watters Creek. Was that a 1990 thing?

 

[Rau]

But thou shalt not kill is a commandment…there are only 10. Lord have mercy, can we all agree on those? : (

What legal enforcement is there of commandments:
Thou shalt not commit adultery;
Honour thy Father and Mother;
Thou shalt not covet;

and a number of others.

I suggest that only 3 of 10 commandments are reflected in the law: the prohibitions on Murder, Stealing and giving False Witness.

People may be prepared to believe and accept in their own lives, but decline to require the State to compel others likewise, except when they themselves could be the victim!

 

[edwest2]

Right…like when did it become ok to have ladies in the underwear billboard style in front of the parks where the children play…hello Watters Creek. Was that a 1990 thing?

I’m lost regarding your reference. Were these photos of ladies in their underwear? Actual ladies wearing something that looked like underwear? No need to post a photo. I don’t know anything about Watters Creek. A public park?

Ed

 

[tifischer]

I’m lost regarding your reference. Were these photos of ladies in their underwear? Actual ladies wearing something that looked like underwear? No need to post a photo. I don’t know anything about Watters Creek. A public park?

Ed

Sorry it is Victorias Secret and there is a Soma Intimates at Waters Creek that has a park for kids…it is suppose to be a family park and shopping area…and I am wondering why have ladies intimates on the walls of stores outside of the children’s park…different discussion really.

 

[tifischer]

What legal enforcement is there of commandments:
Thou shalt not commit adultery;
Honour thy Father and Mother;
Thou shalt not covet;

and a number of others.

I suggest that only 3 of 10 commandments are reflected in the law: the prohibitions on Murder, Stealing and giving False Witness.

People may be prepared to believe and accept in their own lives, but decline to require the State to compel others likewise, except when they themselves could be the victim!

I would say freedom of religion is covered by the law.

Commit adultery and you may be sued in family court.

Honor thy mother and father until the age of 17 then you may emancipate yourself legally from them if you like…However the bible says then you will suffer the consequences from
God if you do not honor your mother and your Father even after an adult.

Covet is not technically infringing upon someone else it is more of a sin that you do in your heart.

Interesting.

 

[LongingSoul]

But thou shalt not kill is a commandment…there are only 10. Lord have mercy, can we all agree on those? : (

We can all agree on the fifth commandment, yes. What does not have universal consensus is whether a human being is that from day one of conception. We as Catholics *do *believe that to be true and would never have or advocate for abortion. But civil authorities and the laws that govern are primarily beholden to the common good… and that is more often a work in progress that needs to be respected as such.

As an example of how fundamentalism brings negative results to civil society is Romania’s Ceausescu. As President, he banned abortion and contraception for the purpose of radically increasing the low population. The result was the unmitigated tragedy of the Romanian orphan crisis that followed. As a consequence of the illness and starvation experienced by these hoards of abandoned children who needed urgent blood transfusions… Romania had the highest rate of HIV related pediatric illness and death in Europe. His fundamentalist policies with noble intentions caused even greater evil in the society he was responsible for.

 

[livingwordunity]

Because it’s easier to go with the flow of the culture of death than to struggle against it.

See:
Pro Eligendo Romano Pontifice
Evangelium Vitae