Why are there mutterings of discontent within the Catholic clergy towards our Pope?

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You don’t know if he repented after Jesus death in prayer. I don’t either. We cannot know how God judged him.

Remember that there are traditions that say that even Adam and Eve, the ones who brought sin to the natural world, were saved by Christ.
 
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That is not the Church’s position.
The church has named Saints who have gone directly to heaven. But not a single name of anyone who has gone to hell.
It is something we don’t know. Praying for every soul is something we do at every mass.
 
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Maximus1 said:
That is not the Church’s position.
The church has named Saints who have gone directly to heaven. But not a single name of anyone who has gone to hell.
It is something we don’t know. Praying for every soul is something we do at every mass.
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Yes. However we should not go around implying hell is empty. That is such a modernist view.
 
We don’t know! And we should not imply more than that.
In terms of" modernist views" I am beginning to see that the real definition should not be modernist perhaps.
It perhaps should be neo- middleist.
This idea of the potential that all souls might be saved finds its origins in Christian faith in the Desert Fathers.
Yes, it did have a substantial revival with prominent Theologians around Vatican two, and since, but it is hardly a modern idea. It is a revived idea.
 
Did someone defend Judas? Certainly not for what he did. That is an unfair strawman that misses the argument. Judas name is selected because we assess him as a most likely candidate. If he is not automatically there by name, that is information about our Church’s position.
We love rules as Catholics. We think in terms of " deadlines" and minutia of legalisms. In spiritual/ salvation matters.
I suppose there is utility to this in terms of " getting people’s attention" or " stressing it is important". Forgive me, but I am running up on a half century participating and that is my observation.
I need only read passages about Jesus to know he was quite gentle with almost everyone( save those who required an adjustment in humility).
The Adulteress literally goes from frying pan to fire. Caught in the act( ever really contemplate " caught"). She then proceeds to gather a crowd of righteous stone throwers. ( Like a small snowball rolling downhill in sticky snow)
She metaphorically is chased into Jesus lap.
From that moment, she has no speaking parts until out of danger. ( Save one… She answers that there are no accusers to a question asking where they are).
There is no repentance mentioned. Just forgiveness and good advice( Jesus may not be there next time).
Nobody checks up. No repentance to report. Jesus love and mercy saved her because he was good, not because she was good. And so an easy story upon which to conjecture, we don’t know.
PS Excuse me for expounding)
 
I agree. But it’s just discouraging when some of those people are Cardinals with good reputation, asking for clarification.

Maybe this Pope isnt able to clarify many of his thoughts, while at the same time professing the Apostolic faith?

For example… it’s not exactly speaking ex-cathedra to wait for an interpretation of a part of your own encyclical, then say “yeah, what they said”.

That doesnt classify as papal clarity.
 
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Being named “the son of perdition” by the One who is judge and Lord, is not very hopeful.

Maybe that was directed @Maximus1

John 17:12
“While I was with them, I kept them in thy name, which thou hast given me; I have guarded them, and none of them is lost but the son of perdition, that the scripture might be fulfilled.”
 
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This is interesting as Korean Catholics are highly in favour of the Pope. The Pope’s teaching on peace resonates with a lot of Catholics who fled from North Korea for religious freedom.
 
There will always be cultural Catholics

I think we should love and appreciate the Bishop of Rome for being able to bring his brothers together. With signs of dialogue and formal affirmations.

Dont put culture before the deposit of faith

What did Francis do in South or North Korea? Was he there? Were Catholic Bishops, in South Korea, working for this cause? Were they instructed by Pope Francis about this?
 
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Funny, my Catholic Bible uses son of destruction in John.
And 2Thessalonians2 seems to describe the deceiving force in a context of Paul discussing the need for things to happen before the revelation events. ( Demonic/ deceiver).
In John, the passage is complicated. Christ is talking( is it the risen Christ or the one still engaged in earthly mission?)
It is a petition prayer to the father on behalf of the Apostles, Jesus point is for all but the one lost. )
Lost how? As an Apostle? Sure. But is it about going to hell?
Jesus light is -48 hours away from entering into hell, during that speech. It doesn’t seem like he left any behind. As Von Balthazar wrote, what darkness in hell could survive the light of Christ?
Point is, who knows?
 
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There is more than one translation approved by the Church.

From searching the Koine Greek, in John 17:12, the word is used twice. Both have direct meanings of “destruction” and “perish”. Like used in John 3:16.

I think, if Judas repented unto life, we would have seen this. He was an Apostle! It would have been unjust for Jesus not to redeem Judas to a worthy death.
 
Hello @Ammi,

I do not see this as a concern of a culture. The two Koreas are still at war. We have to send our sons to military to prevent a second Korean War. When North Korea fires a missile or when we hear of hostages in North Korea held because they practiced our faith, this poses an immediate danger to our safety.

What I am saying here is that peace is a national issue and a safety issue. When Pope Francis came to Korea, he emphasized peace. So the Bishops in Korea were working extremely hard to serve North Korean refugees who fled to the South. The current president, Moon Jae-in, is a Roman Catholic. I believe he discussed this issue with the Pope.

Please do not think peace is a cultural issue. My grandmother, who converted to become Catholic out of all members of our extended family, is a survivor of the Korean War. Her safety depended on it.

Now, not all Korean Catholics favour the Pope. However, it seems that the Bishops are doing a good job applying the teachings of the Church to parishes. And for us, peace is so important. It means religious freedom for the North and also safety for the South.
 
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I didnt imply criticism for an instruction of peace. But impartial approach to Francis’ work as a whole.

Even Pope Francis’ critics can respect things about his ministry
 
Thanks for the information.
I think it adds to my point about complexity and not being able reach a conclusion. But we are told it is OK to hope for salvation for all souls.
 
Why are there mutterings among the clergy about our Pope? Probably for the same broad reasons that there have likely been mutterings by clergy about the pope for every one of the previous popes.

Ecclesiastes 1:9: “What has been, that will be; what has been done, that will be done. Nothing is new uder the sun.”

I realize the OP is asking about specifics of Pope Francis; but all that happens is we get a new pope and a group of priests who mutter. The same can be said for bishops and Cardinals.
 
Yes. A funny thing. To avoid praying for mortal sins, yet praying for them, in general.

Jesus prayed, and called Judas lost.
 
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englands123 said:
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So I believe your bible verse is incorrect here.
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Old Testament, Numbers 21
6 So the Lord sent among the people seraph serpents, which bit the people so that many of the Israelites died. 7 Then the people came to Moses and said, “We have sinned in complaining against the Lord and you. Pray to the Lord to take the serpents from us.” So Moses prayed for the people,
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