"Why are there so many different Christian interpretations? If all Christians have th

[jmcrae]

Yes Jesus put the HS in charge of all those who have Him in them. The bible says we are suppose to be able to tell by their actions Fruit of the Spirit(Galations 5:22).

Yes, we memorize this in our Catechism classes. (By the way, it’s spelled “Galatians,” because the people Paul was writing to were from a place called Galatia.)

That is why it is of the opmost importance that a true christian acts like one so people can tell the difference. That is where sacrifing our fleshly desires come in to play. We need to sacrifice ourselves daily to follow Christ.

Based on that criteria just by itself without any other qualifying information, Mormons and Buddhists are excellent Christians. Would you say that they have the Holy Spirit?

I’m sure you know what Im talking about but let me give you an example:
I was asked to help out a lady who had quadruplets. It is a ministry our ladies bible study group is doing. Anyway, I went and the lady was nice, the babies were great, but they had MANY MANY animals that made us smell when we left. Now, I could be completely selfish an say to myself Im not going to go back because I dint like all the animals. But instead, by an act of willful obediance to the Lord I am going to go back and help this family as long as they need me. Trust me I have more stories but I dont want to make meself look too bad

Sure. I’ve often done things like that, too. There are lots of people who don’t even go to Church or believe in anything supernatural who do similar things. They have all sorts of reasons for doing it, but “being a good citizen” is usually somewhere near the top of the list.

 

[ALLFORHIM]

Yes, we memorize this in our Catechism classes. (By the way, it’s spelled “Galatians,” because the people Paul was writing to were from a place called Galatia

.) OOPS I was writing fast

Based on that criteria just by itself without any other qualifying information, Mormons and Buddhists are excellent

Yes there are plenty of “good” people out there that do “good things” which can be done without having the HS in them. Like I said above–mention Jesus Christ and see what their reactions are. I dont know about you but when I meet someone who I suspect might be born again, I start talking about Christ and they either are enthusiastic to meet someone who believes the same or they cringe at the topic. Notice I didnt say mention God–because most people believe in a God–but mention Jesus and watch people squirm Those who dont squirm are either open to the gospel message or are already saved. in my experience anyway.

 

[Researcher]

The reason there are so many different interpritations of the Bible is due, in lagre part, to the refusal to accept that anyone can be an authority on the meaning. This is not a recent problem within Christianity. Even in the early years of the church history we see Bishop Arius denying the divintiy of Jesus Christ. The desire to reject authority of others is deeply engrained in all of us. Just look to the behavior of children who at the early age of 2 begin to reject the authority of the parent. If you don’t like that example then look at most teenagers. Remember when you were a teenager? How about those college years, if you were there?

The “period of Enlightenment” was a major wave that swept over western culture and the general rejection of government authority in the form of royalty. Only by the people are we to be ruled. Well, if this concept works so well with civil government why not the church?

Why is the first story in the Bible all about the rejection of authority of God by man? Why is it followed by example after example of disobediance to the authority of God?

We see at the baptism of Jesus the authority of God decending upon Him like a dove. We also see at the transformation of Jesus that again God’s authority has been given to Him. We see the authority of Jesus manifested in the expulsion of demonic spirits, the healing of the sick and the raising of the dead.

We see the authority of Jesus being handed onto his Apostles after His resurection. We see the extending of this authority to others who are selcted by the Apostles, specifically to replace Judas. We see Paul extending his authority to timothy and others.

We see that Paul recognizes the authority of Peter over all Apostles when the question of circumcision comes up. Paul does not break away to start a new church because he disagrees with the other! Paul reconciles with Peter, not with Jame, John, Phillip or anyone else. It is the authority of Peter that Paul respected.

Yes, the age old problem of man is the rejection of authority. Although Jesus prayed for us to be one as he and the Father are one, the quest for our own authority will be the barrier. When all Christians recognise the authority of the chair of Peter, then we will be one. We must all be like Jesus in the Garden of Gethsemine, “not my will but yours be done.”

So much more could be said on this but I think enough has been said to make the point.

 

[Kay_Cee]

Yes, all Christians have the ability to able to interpret scripture. Whether or not they are genuine in their interpretation is another thing, though.

Actually, I didn’t ask if all Christians have the *ability *to interpret scripture. I asked if they have the authority.

Sorry for the confusion. And, AFH, no problem in taking a while. I know you’re swamped. My computer problems took me out of the discussion for a while too.

 

[ALLFORHIM]

Actually, I didn’t ask if all Christians have the *ability *to interpret scripture. I asked if they have the authority.

Sorry for the confusion. And, AFH, no problem in taking a while. I know you’re swamped. My computer problems took me out of the discussion for a while too.

I thought Blue said authority–oops I scanned right over it. Yes and I stand behind my comment above.

 

[Kay_Cee]

I thought Blue said authority–oops I scanned right over it. Yes and I stand behind my comment above.

I take it from this you believe all Christians have the authority to interpret scripture.

Point 1: What good is authority if everyone has it?
An authority everyone has is meaningless.

And, if everyone has the authority to interpret scripture, then all interpretations are all equally valid, including conflicting ones. So, therefore, either truth really can conflict with truth (relativism) or God has different rules for each indivdual (which means no standard and again is relativistic).

Point 2: Where does the Bible say God grants this authority to each individual Christian?

I hope the above makes sense. I’ve got a splitting headache, and I’ve got to run–got to go pick up one of my kids.

 

[ALLFORHIM]

I take it from this you believe all Christians have the authority to interpret scripture.

 

[jmcrae]

Well not everyone has it. Only those with the HS.

And you can tell who has the authority of the Holy Spirit by how they react when we mention Jesus Christ?

I know lots of three year olds who love Jesus very much, but I wouldn’t consider them to be authorities on Scripture.

And there is still the problem of so many people who love Jesus very much, but who conflict in their interpretation of Scripture.

If I want to speak to an authority on investments, I know who to call - I call my broker. He’s an authority on this subject. I can look at his track record and his qualifications, to make sure that he’s the real thing and not just some shyster trying to take my money.

If I want to speak to an authority on the law, I talk to a lawyer. Again, I can check their credentials, and have a reasonable expectation of getting good advice.

If I want to talk to an authority on any subject, there is someone I can call, and credentials that I can check.

As Scripture says the HS will lead those who have it into all truth.

And what credentials does He give to people, so that we can check and know that the person is giving accurate information rather than their personal opinion?

That is why when someone tells you something you have to go to Scriptures and see if they back up what someone is telling you. Pray for the Spirit to guide you and if you have the Spirit He will guide you to the truth an if you dont well then you can be easily swayed.

But what happens if my interpretation is incorrect? After all, lots of people have thought they were following the Holy Spirit, but at least 59,999 of them have to be wrong about that.

Mar 13:33 Take ye heed, watch and pray: for ye know not when the time is.

Mar 13:34 [For the Son of man is] as a man taking a far journey, who left his house, and gave authority to his servants, and to every man his work, and commanded the porter to watch.

Mar 13:35 Watch ye therefore: for ye know not when the master of the house cometh, at even, or at midnight, or at the cockcrowing, or in the morning:

Mar 13:36 Lest coming suddenly he find you sleeping.

Mar 13:37 And what I say unto you I say unto all, Watch.

These verses are about the Second Coming. They have nothing to do with people receiving authority from the Holy Spirit to interpret the Scriptures.

 

[saint24]

Nope they are all fallible. There are no infallible people. Show me in scripture where it says anyone is infallible. Jesus was the only one.

there are so many christian interpetations because of the lack of understanding of the word

 

[RNRobert]

If I want to speak to an authority on investments, I know who to call - I call my broker. He’s an authority on this subject. I can look at his track record and his qualifications, to make sure that he’s the real thing and not just some shyster trying to take my money.

If I want to speak to an authority on the law, I talk to a lawyer. Again, I can check their credentials, and have a reasonable expectation of getting good advice.

And if you have a medical problem, you call a licensed doctor, not some quack.

The salvation of one’s soul is the most important thing in a person’s life, something that is far too important to be trusted to anyone with a pulpit and his own ideas of what the Holy Spirit tells him Scripture says.

 

[SpiritualBeing]

1. Lack of training. The Apostle Peter warns against those who “wrest [misinterpret]” the scriptures. He attributes their spurious teachings, in part, to the fact that they are “unlearned” (2 Peter 3:16). Timothy is told to “study to show thyself approved unto God” (2 Timothy 2:15). There is no shortcut to proper biblical interpretation; we are constrained to study.
2. Poor hermeneutics. Much error has been promulgated because of a simple failure to apply good hermeneutics (the science of interpreting scripture). Taking a verse out of its immediate context can do great damage to the intent of the verse. Ignoring the wider context of the chapter and book, or failing to understand the historical/cultural context will also lead to problems.
3. Ignorance of the whole Word of God. Apollos was a powerful and eloquent preacher, but he only knew of the baptism of John. He was ignorant of Jesus and His provision of salvation, so his message was incomplete. Aquila and Priscilla took him aside and “expounded unto him the way of God more perfectly” (Acts 18:24-28). After that, Apollos preached Jesus Christ. Some groups and individuals today have an incomplete message, because they concentrate on certain passages, to the exclusion of others. They fail to compare scripture with scripture.

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Misinterpretation of the Word of God was first started at the Council of Nicea in the year 325AD. They were in a big hurry to get things done. The Council was called because the Lord’s Divinity was being denied. The choice they make had turn the church into a place for satan.

William

 

[Kay_Cee]

Hi, I hope that your headache goes away. I have had one all day as well but it is minor.

Thanks! It seems to be mostly gone this morning.

Ok to the question. Yes I do but they have to ge true born again believers that have the HS dwelling within them. Because God gave us the HS as our counselor and teacher.

So if your interpretation conflicts with mine, one of us is not a true born believer that has the Holy Spirit dwelling within her?

Well not everyone has it. Only those with the HS. As Scripture says the HS will lead those who have it into all truth.

So then it’s not *all *Christians after all. And what do you mean by “it” in your last sentence here?

That is why when someone tells you something you have to go to Scriptures and see if they back up what someone is telling you. Pray for the Spirit to guide you and if you have the Spirit He will guide you to the truth an if you dont well then you can be easily swayed.

I prefer to go to the pillar and bulwark of the truth, that is, the church. In fact, that’s what scripture tells me to do in Matthew 18 (recall our discussion about Baptism?).

And, by your criterea here, there are thousands upon thousands of Protestant ministers–men who have devoted themselves to God, prayer, and scripture study-- who pray to the Holy Spirit to guide them but somehow don’t have the Holy Spirit anyway. How else am I to explain the fact that they come up with conflicting doctrines from the same scriptures? Are they all so “easily swayed”?

Mar 13:33 Take ye heed, watch and pray: for ye know not when the time is.

Mar 13:34 [For the Son of man is] as a man taking a far journey, who left his house, and gave authority to his servants, and to every man his work, and commanded the porter to watch.

Mar 13:35 Watch ye therefore: for ye know not when the master of the house cometh, at even, or at midnight, or at the cockcrowing, or in the morning:

Mar 13:36 Lest coming suddenly he find you sleeping.

Mar 13:37 And what I say unto you I say unto all, Watch.

Jmcrae said the above verses are about the second coming.

Okay, so now we have a conflict in the interpretation of scripture between you and jmcrae. By your own criterea, one of you does not have an indwelling of the Holy Spirit. Which one is it? If you claim you’re the one who does have such an indwelling, by process of elimination, you have to claim jmcrae does not. You have to claim he is not a true born believer with the Holy Spirit dwelling in him. As a matter of fact, if you claim you’re the one with the indwelling, you have to, by default, claim that everybody whose interpretations on any scripture verse disagree with yours is not a true believer with such an indwelling.

I really don’t think that’s what you intend.

 

[ALLFORHIM]

And you can tell who has the authority of the Holy Spirit by how they react when we mention Jesus Christ?

Hi, Sorry I didnt get to finish my post because my hubby wanted the computer. Not necessarily but I usually get an inkling like the HS is telling me or warning me. It is difficult to explain because each individual is different and has different experiences.

I know lots of three year olds who love Jesus very much, but I wouldn’t consider them to be authorities on Scripture.

Yes I understand this is talking about the end times. I guess I should have only put the verse I was focusing on–sorry

Mark 13: 34-- Jesus specifically said to all His servants–meaning all who truly believe in Him. That message is for all of us–not just the heirarchy of the CC. He left His Word for all the people. Sadly only a few accept it.

 

[ALLFORHIM]

Thanks! It seems to be mostly gone this morning.

And, by your criterea here, there are thousands upon thousands of Protestant ministers–men who have devoted themselves to God, prayer, and scripture study-- who pray to the Holy Spirit to guide them but somehow don’t have the Holy Spirit anyway. How else am I to explain the fact that they come up with conflicting doctrines from the same scriptures? Are they all so “easily swayed”?
Sadly yes and I will add priests and bishops and popes into that mix. All humans can be easily swayed.

Jmcrae said the above verses are about the second coming.

I answered him on that one:thumbsup:

Okay, so now we have a conflict in the interpretation of scripture between you and jmcrae. By your own criterea, one of you does not have an indwelling of the Holy Spirit. Which one is it? If you claim you’re the one who does have such an indwelling, by process of elimination, you have to claim jmcrae does not. You have to claim he is not a true born believer with the Holy Spirit dwelling in him. As a matter of fact, if you claim you’re the one with the indwelling, you have to, by default, claim that everybody whose interpretations on any scripture verse disagree with yours is not a true believer with such an indwelling.

I really don’t think that’s what you intend.

No I do not intend to do that. I believe I answered this question above.
[/QUOTE]

 

[jmcrae]

So if your interpretation conflicts with mine, one of us is not a true born believer that has the Holy Spirit dwelling within her?

So, then, how does having the Holy Spirit mean that your interpretation of Scripture is always going to be accurate, if several people who all have the Holy Spirit can disagree on something as important as the End Times? Isn’t that a “salvation” issue, if ever there was one?

Remember, even though we have the HS in us we still have our own opinions and feelings that can enter into our decision and we can also ignore or grieve the HS and be led astray. After all, noone is infallible.

So, then, having the Holy Spirit doesn’t really mean anything, as far as being authorized to interpret the Scriptures. So, we’re back to square one again.

How can you tell that someone is interpreting the Scriptures accurately? What signs do you look for, other than the “burning in the bosom,” or other emotional responses?

To ask it another way: What’s a reliable, never-fail method of knowing that someone is interpreting the Scriptures correctly, regardless of what kind of a mood I’m in myself, or whether I like the person or not? If I were hiring someone to be my Scripture interpreter, what qualifications am I looking for? If you were applying for the job, what qualifications would you present to me?

 

[Kay_Cee]

No I do not intend to do that. I believe I answered this question above.

I’m afraid you haven’t anwered the question at all.

You don’t explain how two Christians can have conflicting doctrines. I’m not talking about a difference of opinion. I’m talking about doctrines that are diametrically opposed to each other.

Take, for example, the Eucharist. We interpret the Bible to say that Jesus is truly present under the appearance of bread and wine. Many Christians disagree with that; they claim Jesus is not present there at all. Both things cannot be true!

Yet both sets of Christians believe and pray to the Holy Spirit for guidance–that is, they fit your criterea for having the authority to interpret scripture. They both read the Bible. So, how can they come to completely opposite doctrines? One absolutely has to be wrong.

So, I have a couple of questions:

1. Do you yourself fit your criterea for having the authority to interpret scripture?
2. Where did you get the idea that your criterea is the correct one for determining who has the authority to interpret scripture?

 

[Blue_Serenity]

Mark 13: 34-- Jesus specifically said to all His servants–meaning all who truly believe in Him. That message is for all of us–not just the heirarchy of the CC. He left His Word for all the people. Sadly only a few accept it.

St. Jerome himself said “ignorance of scriptures is ignorance of Christ”.

 

[Blue_Serenity]

Actually, I didn’t ask if all Christians have the *ability *to interpret scripture. I asked if they have the authority.

Oops sorry. No, not all Christians have the “authority” to interpret scripture. That’s how false prophets come about. Only Christians under proper guidance from the Holy Spirit, which they can obtain through sincere prayer, can authoratively interpret scripture.

 

[RNRobert]

Oops sorry. No, not all Christians have the “authority” to interpret scripture. That’s how false prophets come about. Only Christians under proper guidance from the Holy Spirit, which they can obtain through sincere prayer, can authoratively interpret scripture.

Then how is one to separate the genuine teachers from the charlatans? Many cults use the Bible to support their teachings, and are able to lead many astray. Not everyone can read or have access to a Bible, and even if you have access to a Bible, the Bible itself says it “contains things hard to understand.” Also, most people who read the Bible don’t know the original languages (including myself), so my understanding of Scripture is only as good as my translation is. If I have a faulty translation of Scripture, my understanding of Scripture will be faulty. So, who can we trust as a reliable authority?

 

[Kay_Cee]

Oops sorry. No, not all Christians have the “authority” to interpret scripture. That’s how false prophets come about. Only Christians under proper guidance from the Holy Spirit, which they can obtain through sincere prayer, can authoratively interpret scripture.

I think at this point it would be helpful to define “authority” so we know we’re talking about the same thing. It does us no good, of course, to talk past each other!

My dictionary gives 8 definitions:

1. the right to command and to enforce obedience
2. delegated right or power; authorization
3. those having the power to govern or command
4. title to respect, confidence; personal influence
5. a person, volume, etc. appealed to in support of action or belief
6. one who has special knowledge; an expert
7. an official or group having administrative control in a specified area
8. an authoritative opinion, decision, or precedent

Which of these definitions most accurately depicts what you mean when you say “Only Christians under proper guidance from the Holy Spirit, which they can obtain through sincere prayer, can authoritively interpret scripture”?

I have another question too. Do all Christians who sincerely pray to the Holy Spirit receive this authority to interpret scripture?