"Why are there so many different Christian interpretations? If all Christians have th

[Kay_Cee]

Yes it does supply info. about God:thumbsup:

I see jmcrae anticipated my third question (does the Bible supply us with information about God?), so I’ll jump to my fourth question:

4) Did God provide a way in which human beings, even though not sinless, when they penned scripture, would write only the truth, that what they wrote would be 100% inerrant?

Please note I’m not asking what the way is, just whether or not there was a way and, if there was, if God provided it.

 

[apophasis]

Good.

So, God wants us to know the truth about Him, God has provided us with a way of knowing about Him, and the Bible contains information about God - it’s one of the ways that God has provided for us to know about Him.

Was it possible for God to grant infallibility (that is, the inability to write/say anything that is not true), even under limited circumstances, to human beings when they wrote scripture?

No, He didn’t “grant infallibility” to the men who wrote Scripture. The Scriptures themselves are “infallible” in the sense that they are theopneustos (God-breathed), and therefore inerrant.

For fallible men to approach these inerrant Scriptures and remain objective in their interpretation they must abide in certain rules. AFH provided you with an excellent list at the beginning of this thread. IOW, you must come to the study table without bias in order to learn what the Scriptures themselves have to teach. As a RC, what do you think of number seven?

7. Undue emphasis on tradition. Some churches claim to believe the Bible, but their interpretation is always filtered through the established tradition of their church. Where tradition and the teaching of the Bible are in conflict, tradition is given precedence. This effectively negates the authority of the Word and grants the church leadership supremacy.

 

[deb216]

Explain, please, how people (with no bias or traditions to influence them) can pray to the Holy Spirit for guidance when reading the Bible and arrive at different conclusions.

 

[RNRobert]

No, He didn’t “grant infallibility” to the men who wrote Scripture. The Scriptures themselves are “infallible” in the sense that they are theopneustos (God-breathed), and therefore inerrant.

For fallible men to approach these inerrant Scriptures and remain objective in their interpretation they must abide in certain rules. AFH provided you with an excellent list at the beginning of this thread. IOW, you must come to the study table without bias in order to learn what the Scriptures themselves have to teach. As a RC, what do you think of number seven?

7. Undue emphasis on tradition. Some churches claim to believe the Bible, but their interpretation is always filtered through the established tradition of their church. Where tradition and the teaching of the Bible are in conflict, tradition is given precedence. This effectively negates the authority of the Word and grants the church leadership supremacy.

Why shouldn’t the church have leadership supremacy? The church (specifically the Catholic church) existed before the New Testament. It wrote, preserved and set the New Testament canon. And there is nothing in Catholic teaching that contradicts Scripture (though there are many things in Protestant teachings that do contradict Scripture).

Besides, if two Christians disagree on what Scripture teaches, who is the final arbiter?

 

[ALLFORHIM]

Besides, if two Christians disagree on what Scripture teaches, who is the final arbiter?

This is when they should sit down–go to the original language the bible was written in(Greek and Hebrew) and see what it says. So going to scripture in original language is really the only way. Since this is a difficult task for most people–we do rely on our ministers/priests/bishops(who have done the work)to teach us. My minister always gives us the greek when teaching us scripture. Since most people are unwilling or just dont have the interst or time–we have different intrepretations.

 

[ALLFORHIM]

Explain, please, how people (with no bias or traditions to influence them) can pray to the Holy Spirit for guidance when reading the Bible and arrive at different conclusions.

Simply put some truly have the HS and some dont but think they do. Obviously I will not judge who does and who doesnt because Im not God:thumbsup:

The bible does say we can deceive ourselves. That is why we need to evaluate ourselves, our motives daily. ALOT of people on both sides of christianity just play church and never come to a saving grace from Christ.

Just my :twocents:

 

[ALLFORHIM]

I see jmcrae anticipated my third question (does the Bible supply us with information about God?), so I’ll jump to my fourth question:

4) Did God provide a way in which human beings, even though not sinless, when they penned scripture, would write only the truth, that what they wrote would be 100% inerrant?

Please note I’m not asking what the way is, just whether or not there was a way and, if there was, if God provided it.

He didnt provide a way He was the way.

 

[Kay_Cee]

He didnt provide a way He was the way.

So God actually sat down with papyrus, ink, and a quill and penned scripture himself?

Or did human beings sit down with papyrus, ink, and a quill and pen scripture?

“Pen” as a verb, BTW, means to write with a pen. You’re telling me God wrote with a pen.

 

[ALLFORHIM]

So God actually sat down with papyrus, ink, and a quill and penned scripture himself?

Or did human beings sit down with papyrus, ink, and a quill and pen scripture?

“Pen” as a verb, BTW, means to write with a pen. You’re telling me God wrote with a pen.

Your so funny. You know how it happened But I can see how one would be confused if they are not looking at this in a spiritual way

 

[jmcrae]

Anything is possible from God–However, He does not give the gift of infallibilty anywhere that I can see. Can you find that gift in the bible? I cant.

Jesus promises us that we will worship Him “in spirit and in truth” - this means that we will be able to know the truth.

I’m curious, why do catholics think that one has to be speaking with infallibilty when teaching scripture? Where does that belief come from?

The opposite of “infallibility” is “uncertainty.”

You have already said that God wants us to have certainty about His Truth. God has provided that way through His Church, which gives us not only the Bible, but also the Sacraments, and the Oral Tradition, along with the Magesterium of the Church (the Bishops and the Pope working together) - even the footnotes in our Catholic Bibles come from the Magesterium - they were not put there by God.

(The footnotes and study helps in Protestant Bibles come from Protestant scholars. For example, if you use the New American Standard Bible, the footnotes you see in there were written by a Sunday School teacher who is a member of the Reformed Baptist Church.)

 

[jmcrae]

No, He didn’t “grant infallibility” to the men who wrote Scripture. The Scriptures themselves are “infallible” in the sense that they are theopneustos (God-breathed), and therefore inerrant.

If God did not protect the eight men who wrote the New Testament from writing error, then how do we know for sure that they didn’t write error?

For fallible men to approach these inerrant Scriptures and remain objective in their interpretation they must abide in certain rules. AFH provided you with an excellent list at the beginning of this thread. IOW, you must come to the study table without bias in order to learn what the Scriptures themselves have to teach.

The Church has always looked at history,the oral tradition, the intended audience, the literary style, the culture of the time in which it was written, the original languages, and the four senses of Scripture (literal, allegorical, anagogical, and moral) to help us understand the Scriptures. After all, our Church was there when the Apostles were our leaders. We were there when Jesus was on earth as our leader. That’s how old our Church is.

Where was your church, when the first members of my church were sitting on the grass, passing around a basket of loaves and fishes that never became empty, no matter how much food anyone took out of it?

Oh that’s right - your religion didn’t even start until many centuries later.

As a RC, what do you think of number seven?

As an RC, I’m not really into numerology - we are taught that it’s a sin to get involved in such things as numerology, horoscopes, ouija boards, the I Ching, etc.

 

[ALLFORHIM]

Jesus promises us that we will worship Him “in spirit and in truth” - this means that we will be able to know the truth.

 

[jmcrae]

You didnt answer my question. Did you read 1 Corinthians chapter 2?

And who knows Christ Crucified better than the Catholic Church?

Indeed, we are often criticized by Protestants for our seeming “over-emphasis” on the Cross.

St. Paul knew that the Corinthians had received the Holy Spirit in the Sacrament of Confirmation - nevertheless, he never stopped teaching them, and indeed, after telling them that the Holy Spirit will reveal all things to them, he doesn’t stop - he continues to teach them for another 14 more chapters in that same letter, followed by a second letter that was 13 chapters added to that, along with all of the oral teachings that he gave them when he was among them, and this in addition to everything that they were being taught by their own local Bishop, priests, and deacons.

So, it seems as though St. Paul himself did not interpret this passage (which he wrote) to mean that everyone should just pray to the Holy Spirit and hope for the best. He believed that the leaders of the Church have a responsibility to guide and teach the people.

 

[ALLFORHIM]

And who knows Christ Crucified better than the Catholic Church?[/QUOTEI also understand:thumbsup:

]
Indeed, we are often criticized by Protestants for our seeming “over-emphasis” on the Cross.

I agree that is why God gave us the church set up he did in Acts.

The point I was trying to show you in that scripture was in reference to what the HS will do for a believer who is sealed with the HS. My minister understands scripture more then I(He should it is his calling) and when I have a question I go to him. Believers all have a different spiritual walk with Christ. Some are ahead of others and therefore more knowledgable in the bible. The ones who are more knoeledgable are suppose to disciple to the ones who have less knowledge of biblical truths.The HS reveals biblical truths to believers when it is God’s timing. There were passages I read that I did not understand 3 years ago because I was not ready. I have read those passages again recently and it is like WOW how come I didnt get that 3 years ago. The reason is because the HS did not reveal that truth to me until now. There are truths in the bible I do not get yet but I trust when God thinks Im ready the HS will reveal it to me. It is called maturing in the faith.

 

[Kay_Cee]

Your so funny.

Believe me, I’m not trying to be. I am dead serious.

You know how it happened

This isn’t funny, AFH. We are discussing serious issues here. Either answer the question or admit you don’t know the answer.

But I can see how one would be confused if they are not looking at this in a spiritual way

I don’t appreciate the ad hominen attack. How dare you imply I am not spiritual! How dare you imply I am confused! I have worked very hard to build a logical argument here. I point out the inconsistency in your argument, and all you give me is silliness.

Salvation is a serious issue, and you’re playing games.

 

[jmcrae]

I agree that is why God gave us the church set up he did in Acts.

Yes, that was the Catholic Church.

The point I was trying to show you in that scripture was in reference to what the HS will do for a believer who is sealed with the HS. My minister understands scripture more then I(He should it is his calling) and when I have a question I go to him.

How do you know that he knows more than you do about Scripture? What if he is wrong about something, or making stuff up? (People always ask us this about the Pope, but if the Pope could be wrong or could be making stuff up about the Bible, then so could anybody - including any minister - right?)

Believers all have a different spiritual walk with Christ. Some are ahead of others and therefore more knowledgable in the bible. The ones who are more knoeledgable are suppose to disciple to the ones who have less knowledge of biblical truths.

Yes, that’s true. Isn’t that why God gave Bishops and priests to the Church?

The HS reveals biblical truths to believers when it is God’s timing. There were passages I read that I did not understand 3 years ago because I was not ready. I have read those passages again recently and it is like WOW how come I didnt get that 3 years ago. The reason is because the HS did not reveal that truth to me until now. There are truths in the bible I do not get yet but I trust when God thinks Im ready the HS will reveal it to me. It is called maturing in the faith.

Yes, we all have to mature in the faith, because we are all babes in the faith. That’s why God gave us the Church - to be like a “mother” to all these “babes” to teach us correctly - this is why our Church is often referred to as “Mother Church.”

 

[jmcrae]

Your so funny. You know how it happened But I can see how one would be confused if they are not looking at this in a spiritual way

AFH, it’s really important to understand how the Scriptures came to us.

What do you “see” in your mind’s eye, when you think about the Holy Spirit inspiring the Apostles to write the Scriptures?

Were the Apostles and others seized by the Holy Spirit into trances or epileptic-type fits, and caused to write the Scriptures without the use of their free will? (Does that seem like something that the Christian God would do to anyone?)

Rather than going around calling people “confused” or “unspiritual,” how about giving a bit more data on how you think the Holy Spirit actually works, instead of all this “I know it when I feel it” mumbo jumbo.

God doesn’t operate through feelings. God gives us a Covenant, and commandments, and a Church. The Scriptures are just one of the many products that the Church has produced, to help people get to know God better, and they are very important to us, of course - but Jesus was not reading out of Matthew 5:1-12 when He was giving the Beatitudes. Jesus gave us an Oral Tradition, and it is the Oral Tradition that is the source of everything else that we have, including (but not limited to) the Scriptures.

 

[ALLFORHIM]

Believe me, I’m not trying to be. I am dead serious.

This isn’t funny, AFH. We are discussing serious issues here. Either answer the question or admit you don’t know the answer.

I don’t appreciate the ad hominen attack. How dare you imply I am not spiritual! How dare you imply I am confused! I have worked very hard to build a logical argument here. I point out the inconsistency in your argument, and all you give me is silliness.

Salvation is a serious issue, and you’re playing games.

I apologize I didnt mean to imply you were not spiritual.
This is what I believe:
Ultimately, above the human authors, the Bible was written by God. 2 Timothy 3:16 tells us that the Bible was “breathed out” by God. God “superintended” the human authors of the Bible so that while using their own writing styles and personalities, they still recorded exactly what God wanted to be said. The Bible is not dictated from God, but it is perfectly guided and entirely inspired by Him:thumbsup:

 

[Kay_Cee]

I apologize I didnt mean to imply you were not spiritual.
This is what I believe:
Ultimately, above the human authors, the Bible was written by God. 2 Timothy 3:16 tells us that the Bible was “breathed out” by God. God “superintended” the human authors of the Bible so that while using their own writing styles and personalities, they still recorded exactly what God wanted to be said. The Bible is not dictated from God, but it is perfectly guided and entirely inspired by Him:thumbsup:

Apology accepted. Please don’t pull something like that ever again.

Here’s my question again. I’m not asking for specifics about the way God used. If you want to say his way was “superintending,” I don’t care. I just want a yes/no/I don’t know response.

4) Did God provide a way in which human beings, even though not sinless, when they penned scripture, would write only the truth, that what they wrote would be 100% inerrant?

 

[ALLFORHIM]

.

That’s why God gave us the Church - to be like a “mother” to all these “babes” to teach us correctly - this is why our Church is often referred to as “Mother Church.”

This is what I believe the purpose of the Church to be:

**Acts 2:42 could be considered a purpose statement for the church, “They devoted themselves to the apostles’ teaching and to the fellowship, to the breaking of bread and to prayer.” So, according to this Scripture, the purposes / activities of the church should be: (1) teaching Biblical doctrine, (2) providing a place of fellowship for believers, (3) observing the Lord’s supper, and (4) praying.

The church is to teach Biblical doctrine so we can be grounded in our faith. Ephesians 4:14 tells us, “Then we will no longer be infants, tossed back and forth by the waves, and blown here and there by every wind of teaching and by the cunning and craftiness of men in their deceitful scheming.” The church is to be a place of fellowship, where Christians can be devoted to one another and honor one another (Romans 12:10), instruct one another (Romans 15:14), be kind and compassionate to one another (Ephesians 4:32), encourage one another (1 Thessalonians 5:11), and most importantly love one another (1 John 3:11).

The church is to be a place where believers can observe the Lord’s supper, remembering Christ’s death and shed blood on our behalf (1 Corinthians 11:23-26). The concept of “breaking bread” (Acts 2:42) also carries the idea of having meals together. This is another example of the church promoting fellowship. The final purpose of the church according to Acts 2:42 is prayer. The church is to be a place that promotes prayer, teaches prayer, and practices prayer. Philippians 4:6-7 encourages us, “Do not be anxious about anything, but in everything, by prayer and petition, with thanksgiving, present your requests to God. And the peace of God, which transcends all understanding, will guard your hearts and your minds in Christ Jesus.”

Another “commission” given to the church is proclaiming the Gospel of salvation through Jesus Christ (Matthew 28:18-20; Acts 1:8). The church is called to be faithful in sharing the Gospel through word and deed. The church is to be a “lighthouse” in the community – pointing people towards our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ. The church is to both promote the Gospel and prepare its members to proclaim the Gospel (1 Peter 3:15).

Some final purposes of the church are given in James 1:27, “Religion that God our Father accepts as pure and faultless is this: to look after orphans and widows in their distress and to keep oneself from being polluted by the world.” The church is to be about the business of ministering to those who are in need. This includes not only sharing the Gospel, but also providing for physical needs (food, clothing, shelter) as necessary and appropriate. The church is also to equip believers in Christ with the tools they need to overcome sin and remain free from the pollution of the world. This is done by the principles given above – Biblical teaching and Christian fellowship.

So, with all that said, what is the purpose of the church? I like the illustration in 1 Corinthians 12:12-27. The church is God’s “body” – we are His hands, mouth, and feet in this world. We are to be doing the things that Jesus Christ would do if He were here physically on the earth. The church is to be “Christian” – “Christ-like” and Christ-following**

Which could be any church that follows what the Apostles taught us in the bible. I dont see this being limited to the CC.