Why are we dividing ourselves?

[ProVobis]

I believe you finally hit on an underlying issue of traditionalist. Is the mass a time for individual contemplation as you indicate or of a community that comes together to praise Christ. My issue with the TDL is that it lacks the communial aspect of worship.

Doesn’t this kind of philosophy presuppose that we will all be on the same side of when we have the Last Judgment? I don’t think that’s what the Church teaches. Whether we like it or not, we come into the world alone, we leave alone, and we get individually judged by God. If you wish that people hold your hand or go where you want them to go, that’s fine, but you can only bring a horse to the water, so to speak.

 

[elt1956]

I disagree.
There can be no peace in the Church until the New Mass finally dies and we have complete restoration of the mass of all ages, the TLM.

Bishop Fellay got it right when he said that the death warrant for the New Mass was signed with Summorum Pontificum. That was not the Pope’s intention but it will be the result in the future.

While the New Mass is valid, many including myself, believe it is bad liturgy, not sacred, and in no way was under the guidance of the holy spirit.

My generation will lead the charge to kill the Novus Ordo within the next twenty years once everyone under forty flocks to the TLM.
The experiment failed. The Church should have listened to Pope Pius XII who believed the Church would commit suicide if it altered her liturgy.

“The day the Church abandons her universal tongue {LATIN} is the day before
she returns to the catacombs.” Pope Pius XII

"A day will come when the civilized world will deny its God, when the Church will doubt as Peter doubted. She will be tempted to believe that man has become God, that His Son is merely a symbol, a philosophy held by so many others, and in the churches Christians will search in vain for the red lamp where God awaits them, like Magdalen weeping before the empty tomb, “Where have they taken HIM?” – Pope Pius XII

The Wheat must be separated from the Chaff.

As painful as it is for the Church, the divisions will increase and get larger over the next couple of years.

The purification and chastisements from God must play out.

There are** two religions **in the Catholic Church. The last fifty years through negligence, sin, apostasy, and chastisement has allowed the weeds to continue to grow.
These are the times we live in.

There is no middle. The middle is no man’s land.
Tradition or Modernism. The war continues. There are only two sides.

How sad. Must it be the human propensity to also War about religion, even with those of one’s own Faith? Isn’t there division enough among people without having this?

 

[elt1956]

Physics question. You and I are both standing in Place A holding hands. You prefer to go to Place B. I prefer to go to Place C. How can we both achieve our preferences without appearing to divide?

We drop our grasp of each others hands and go to Place B, or C. BUT the energy of my praying for you in Place B and you praying for me in Place C will keep us at Place A.

 

[catharina]

As painful as it is for the Church, the divisions will increase and get larger over the next couple of years.

The purification and chastisements from God must play out.

There are** two religions **in the Catholic Church. The last fifty years through negligence, sin, apostasy, and chastisement has allowed the weeds to continue to grow.
These are the times we live in.

There is no middle. The middle is no man’s land.
Tradition or Modernism. The war continues. There are only two sides.

What a horrible distortion of the Catholic Faith.
How much more horrible when one pretends to speak for God!

Some people are always happy to indulge in warfare.
What a tragedy to endeavor to bring it into Holy Mother Church.

 

[saint_rafael]

Ahhhh. The hopes and dreams of illusioned youth.

These youths will be leading the Church’s restoration in the future.

The day will come when one of the worst generations in the history of the world, the Baby Boomers, will have all died out along with their revolution.

 

[Joannm]

These youths will be leading the Church’s restoration in the future.

The day will come when one of the worst generations in the history of the world, the Baby Boomers, will have all died out along with their revolution.

Gee aren’'t you nice. A very Christian remark.

 

[saint_rafael]

What a horrible distortion of the Catholic Faith.
How much more horrible when one pretends to speak for God!

Some people are always happy to indulge in warfare.
What a tragedy to endeavor to bring it into Holy Mother Church.

It is all out war between the devil and Our Lady.
Our Lady of Fatima will triumph

All out war between Catholics who have kept the traditional Faith of the centuries, and the modernists and confused who have kept the novelties, liberalism that has infected the Church the last 45 years.

All out war against the heretical theologians who as periti, had their revolutionary theology time bombed in VII which they maliciously spread everywhere after the council. The agents of Satan in the form of De chardin, Rahner, Von Balthasar, Kung, Brown, De Lubac, and Bugnini.

Every Man for himself :knight1: :knight2:

 

[ethelzguy]

It is all out war between the devil and Our Lady.
Our Lady of Fatima will triumph

All out war between Catholics who have kept the traditional Faith of the centuries, and the modernists and confused who have kept the novelties, liberalism that has infected the Church the last 45 years.

All out war against the heretical theologians who as periti, had their revolutionary theology time bombed in VII which they maliciously spread everywhere after the council. The agents of Satan in the form of De chardin, Rahner, Von Balthasar, Kung, Brown, De Lubac, and Bugnini.

Every Man for himself :knight1: :knight2:

I wonder if you regularly share your opinions with your professors and in your seminary interviews?

 

[saint_rafael]

Gee aren’'t you nice. A very Christian remark.

I was not my intention to offend or condemn individuals. I was talking about the Baby Boomer generation as a whole.

The generation as a whole, OBJECTIVELY looking at it, was the generation of rebellion and revolution. They have destroyed the world.

They were the most perverted, selfish, egotistical, irresponsible generation in centuries. They destroyed the world with the sexual and cultural revolution.

They rejected the faith of their parents and spent years fighting daddy, wether it be parents, authority, institutions, and God.

 

[brotherhrolf]

These youths will be leading the Church’s restoration in the future.

The day will come when one of the worst generations in the history of the world, the Baby Boomers, will have all died out along with their revolution.

And what about we Baby Boomers who wanted nothing to do with our contemporaries “revolution”. I think you need to back off that remark a bit. I grew up in the era. Had short hair. Enlisted. Loved the TLM and have spent the last 40 years trying to avoid the excesses like the plague. I am not alone. To paint an entire generation with such a broad brush is to ignore the fact that, at least here in the Deep South, we remained conservative not only socially but theologically.

It is largely forgotten that in 1969, one did not challenge the magesterium of HMC. One voted with one’s feet until one was exiled to the Vigil Mass on Saturday afternoon as were my parents and my neighbors. Deo gratias ite Deo gratias, I found my reverent NO cathedral parish in 83 and have not looked back.

 

[saint_rafael]

And what about we Baby Boomers who wanted nothing to do with our contemporaries “revolution”. I think you need to back off that remark a bit. I grew up in the era. Had short hair. Enlisted. Loved the TLM and have spent the last 40 years trying to avoid the excesses like the plague. I am not alone. To paint an entire generation with such a broad brush is to ignore the fact that, at least here in the Deep South, we remained conservative not only socially but theologically. .

I understand that many of you were exceptions and many fought tht errors of your generation, but the Baby Boomer generation will be remembered by what the majority of people were like and did.

There were many great people who stayed Catholic during the Protestant refomation. We even had saints during that time, however, that generation went down in history as the generation of the Protestant Reformation. The genearion that destroyed Western Christianity for centuries, not to be rivaled until the Baby Boomers destroyed what was left of Western Civilization.

I am glad many of you survived but the fact remains that your genaration was awful and will go down in history as such.

Take comfort that you were not with them, but you must recognize the destruction that Baby Boomers unleashed on the world.

 

[catharina]

It is all out war between the devil and Our Lady.
Our Lady of Fatima will triumph

All out war between Catholics who have kept the traditional Faith of the centuries, and the modernists and confused who have kept the novelties, liberalism that has infected the Church the last 45 years.

All out war against the heretical theologians who as periti, had their revolutionary theology time bombed in VII which they maliciously spread everywhere after the council. The agents of Satan in the form of De chardin, Rahner, Von Balthasar, Kung, Brown, De Lubac, and Bugnini.

Every Man for himself :knight1: :knight2:

More horrible than your hateful rants is the pride that can feed the delusion that you speak for God. To reference the judgment of God on one’s fellowmen is horrifying. (…agents of Satan???)

 

[saint_rafael]

More horrible than your hateful rants is the pride that can feed the delusion that you speak for God. To reference the judgment of God on one’s fellowmen is horrifying. (…agents of Satan???)

When did I ever say that I spoke for God? You are making that up.

All I did was talk about the crisis which has been explained by Marian apparitions like Our Lady of Fatima, Akita, and Nicaragua.

I make no apologies. I guess you are not used to Men talking like real Men since we have an emasculated society, Church, and priesthood, not to mention all the emasculated men that are around today.

Those theologians were agents of Satan because they taught and held heresies. Heresy comes from the devil because the devil is always trying to destroy the Church.

They have died and I cannot speak for their salvation. That is up to God. God has already decided their fate. They have recieved their judgement and God is mercy and justice. I wish hell for no man on this Earth.

 

[Joannm]

I understand that many of you were exceptions and many fought tht errors of your generation, but the Baby Boomer generation will be remembered by what the majority of people were like and did.

There were many great people who stayed Catholic during the Protestant refomation. We even had saints during that time, however, that generation went down in history as the generation of the Protestant Reformation. The genearion that destroyed Western Christianity for centuries, not to be rivaled until the Baby Boomers destroyed what was left of Western Civilization.

I am glad many of you survived but the fact remains that your genaration was awful and will go down in history as such.

Take comfort that you were not with them, but you must recognize the destruction that Baby Boomers unleashed on the world.

And what about your generation. I am assuming you are a Millenial or Generation X. I am reading a book right now that says that generation, for the most part, is completly apathetic toward religion and faith. THey may be spiritual but they are looking for it in unorthodox places. More of Generation X do not go to Mass than any generation before them. Most do not have orthodox beliefs about God. More of them are marrying much later and postponing children or not having children at all. They are the generation that wants instant gratification, and are more likely to accept euthanasia and abortion. They depend on the media to form their moral views. These are not my opinions but those of sociologists who have studied this generation. So don’t go putting all the blame on us Baby Boomers.

 

[saint_rafael]

And what about your generation. I am assuming you are a Millenial or Generation X. I am reading a book right now that says that generation, for the most part, is completly apathetic toward religion and faith. THey may be spiritual but they are looking for it in unorthodox places. More of Generation X do not go to Mass than any generation before them. Most do not have orthodox beliefs about God. More of them are marrying much later and postponing children or not having children at all. They are the generation that wants instant gratification, and are more likely to accept euthanasia and abortion. They depend on the media to form their moral views. These are not my opinions but those of sociologists who have studied this generation. So don’t go putting all the blame on us Baby Boomers.

I am Millenial or generation Y and I agree with what you say about us. Generation Y is trying to give the Baby Boomers a run for their money. We are really trying to be more perverted, lazy, and irresponsible than your generation. People my age are so sick it’s shocking. We are starting alot younger too. Many kids as young as 7, 8, and 9 are completely decadent.

The problem is that the Baby Boomers started the revolution. Their generation was what started it all. They were the rupture.
Generation X and Y has followed the Baby Boomer lead. They are passing the torch.

My generation was born into the filth that the Baby Boomers created. We don’t know any better. People my age were never taught truth, religion, or culture. We grew without role models, tradition or history. We have had a diet of the culture of death.

I myself only escaped three years ago and became a religious traditional Catholic. Sadly, I am the one who has catechized my parents and brought them back to the faith because they were a product of the 60’s and 70’s.

 

[catharina]

When did I ever say that I spoke for God? You are making that up.

When one definitively calls others “agents of Satan”, then an audience must guess that the one who is speaking imagines he speaks for God. Who else is equipped to define othe men as “the agents of Satan” excepting, when needed, the Pope. Are you the Pope?

All I did was talk about the crisis which has been explained by Marian apparitions like Our Lady of Fatima, Akita, and Nicaragua.

**

All you can do is state YOUR IMPRESSION that certain Marian apparitions mean this or that. You cannot DECLARE such - nor can I.**

I make no apologies. **I’m not surprised by that admission. **

I guess you are not used to Men talking like real Men since we have an emasculated society, Church, and priesthood, not to mention all the emasculated men that are around today. If you are implying that YOU are a real man who talks like a real man - uh, no, I surely don’t see that. Having grown up with six brothers, and the benefit of 36 first cousins (most of whom were male) and the benefit of eight uncles, being pre-Baby-Boomer myself as are many of my cousins, I have to say you are clueless as to what I might be “used to” hearing from men. Your talk of divisivieness and bloody battle (WITHIN the Church) is all too disgusting for me.

Those theologians were agents of Satan because they taught and held heresies. Heresy comes from the devil because the devil is always trying to destroy the Church. **YOU are NOT free to draw that conclusion. It is beyond your “special” powers. You are NOT free to declare their teachings to be heretical. That is not among your abilities. Get it? **

They have died and I cannot speak for their salvation. That is up to God. God has already decided their fate. They have recieved their judgement and God is mercy and justice. I wish hell for no man on this Earth.

**
I am surprised and relieved by your final sentence.
So WHY do you PREACH otherwise? **

 

[ethelzguy]

I was not my intention to offend or condemn individuals. I was talking about the Baby Boomer generation as a whole.

The generation as a whole, OBJECTIVELY looking at it, was the generation of rebellion and revolution. They have destroyed the world.

They were the most perverted, selfish, egotistical, irresponsible generation in centuries. They destroyed the world with the sexual and cultural revolution.

They rejected the faith of their parents and spent years fighting daddy, wether it be parents, authority, institutions, and God.

Perhaps a spin through a few books of the Old Testament may be enlightening. There was plenty of “all of the above” oozing from the pages…Something about Lot being seduced by his daughters, for starters…

 

[saint_rafael]

**
I am surprised and relieved by your final sentence.
So WHY do you PREACH otherwise? **

It wasn’t too long ago that priests and lay men denounced error and heresy.
They called a spade a spade. We do not fear standing up for the truth.

I know the teachings, doctrines, and dogmas of the Church.
When someone says or writes something that is not orthodox, contradicts doctrine and faith that is heresy. Get it?

I have read the writings of those men and they contradict the faith. Therefore they are heretics. Get it?
You should see how these men ridicule the faith.

Raymond Brown for example has destroyed Biblical Exegesis. He believes Jesus was a mere man, the Bible contains myths, and that the Bible is not revelation. That man is clearly demonic. I will oppose any man who as a theologian should be helping the Church is destroying the Church.

As far as a war inside the Church I suggest you do some Church history. There has always been division and fights throughout the history of the Church because we have always had heretics.
Ever heard of the Gnostic heresy? The Arian heresy? the Protestant heresy? They were Catholics who believed in error.

Today we have many Catholics in the Church who serve the devil, hold heresies, and teach error. We are living through another one of those awful apostasies. Being faithful to the Magisterium and God I must fight those who will lead others to damnation.

This may be hard for you modern Catholic women, but pray for the Church, and get out of the way for us who must do what is necessary which will lead to division when one upholds truth. :knight2:

 

[MelanieAnne]

One of the wonderful things about children is that they nearly force you to learn humility. Some of us learn the lesson sooner, some later, and a few not at all.

 

[catharina]

It wasn’t too long ago that priests and lay men denounced error and heresy.
They called a spade a spade. We do not fear standing up for the truth.

First of all, you are YOU. You are not a "we."
**
Are you a time-traveler? The year now is 2008 AD, the Pope now is Benedict VXI. What happened in days past is not approved for now when a declaration is used to attack a PERSON as a heretic. Heresy is heresy. A heretic is one so defined by Canon Law, not by boys in California or Texas. Can you grasp the distinction? Ya’ get it? **

I know the teachings, doctrines, and dogmas of the Church.
When someone says or writes something that is not orthodox, contradicts doctrine and faith that is heresy. Get it?

I have read the writings of those men and they contradict the faith. Therefore they are heretics. Get it?
You should see how these men ridicule the faith.

Raymond Brown for example has destroyed Biblical Exegesis. He believes Jesus was a mere man, the Bible contains myths, and that the Bible is not revelation. That man is clearly demonic. I will oppose any man who as a theologian should be helping the Church is destroying the Church.

As far as a war inside the Church I suggest you do some Church history. There has always been division and fights throughout the history of the Church because we have always had heretics.
Ever heard of the Gnostic heresy? The Arian heresy? the Protestant heresy? They were Catholics who believed in error.

Today we have many Catholics in the Church who serve the devil, hold heresies, and teach error. We are living through another one of those awful apostasies. Being faithful to the Magisterium and God I must fight those who will lead others to damnation.
**
Your fantasy life is alive and well. I’m rather certain that I had earned my first degree in Theology before you were born; maybe before your parents were born.

Your rants are: rants.**

This may be hard for you modern Catholic women, but pray for the Church, and get out of the way for us who must do what is necessary which will lead to division when one upholds truth. :knight2:

**I am not a ‘modern Catholic women.’ I am I.

**When you grow a bit older you might be allowed to study Canon Law. There you’ll find this (among other laws):

PART II : PENALTIES FORPARTICULAR OFFENCES

TITLE I: OFFENCES AGAINST RELIGION AND THE UNITY OF THE CHURCH (Cann. 1364 - 1369)

Can. 1364 §1 An apostate from the faith, a heretic or a schismatic incurs a latae sententiae excommunication, without prejudice to the provision of Can. 194 §1, n. 2; a cleric, moreover, may be punished with the penalties mentioned in Can. 1336 §1, nn. 1, 2 and 3.

§2 If a longstanding contempt or the gravity of scandal calls for it, other penalties may be added, not excluding dismissal from the clerical state.

Any cleric who is guilty of heresy is so declared and punished for that action BY THE CHURCH, not by a young fellow who would like to be king. Longstanding gravity can lead to additional punishments. Do a bit more studying. OK?

Your need to war trumps all. Very pathetic.