Why are you a Protestant(over Catholicism)?

[Vanny]

Have great respect for the Catholic Church and consider them genuine Christians but still have a few disagreements here and there. Now a confessional Lutheran currently inquiring into Eastern Orthodoxy.
I agree the Church shouldn’t be divided.

 

[JonNC]

Every tree that does not bear good fruit will be cut down and thrown into the fire. (Matthew 7).
He who perseveres and endures unto the end will be saved. (Mark 13:13)
…through perseverance in good works (Romans 2:7)

Amen.

There are many Bible verses that present a different position than the common “Christian” saying of “once saved always saved.”

Since I’m Lutheran and reject OSAS, perseverance of saints, and similar, I will let someone who affirms it respond in its defense.

 

[annad347]

What we can do is assist them with prayers.

So VERY true.

We agree on lots of things. It is just that we don’t agree on everything that pertains to salvation itself for example. This poses contradiction- which means at least one side is wrong.

3-4 years ago they agreed on a joint declaration on the doctrine of justification… I don’ think it says one side is right or that the side is wrong. I’m still reading it, very very very slowly trying to read it… (it has a lot of big words). It doesn’t sound like a I’m right, you’re wrong kind of thing.

It is important to search. May God guide you on your journey and may He lead us both into where we all belong.

Amen.

My opinion is that there is One Church that our Lord has created. Their core may be God but insofar as one is offshoot of the other or connected in some roundabout way. In other words God wills that we are united in One Faith, One Lord and One Baptism…

Exactly.

 

[OrbisNonSufficit]

It doesn’t sound like a I’m right, you’re wrong kind of thing.

There are certainly things that differ in approach and not essence. Sadly those are not all. Even if indeed Lutherans and Catholics shared all dogma and were just misunderstanding each other, there are other Protestant denominations with that this don’t.
(I dont believe Lutherans and Catholics have no real differences, I just provided hypothetical scenario)

 

[JonNC]

3-4 years ago they agreed on a joint declaration on the doctrine of justification… I don’ think it says one side is right or that the side is wrong. I’m still reading it, very very very slowly trying to read it… (it has a lot of big words). It doesn’t sound like a I’m right, you’re wrong kind of thing.

The JDDJ was approved in 1999, and you are right, the language is one of convergence and agreement, not of compromise or submission by either side.
It was very significant for this Lutheran in that it confirmed my belief that the real division between Lutheran and Catholic is Ecclesiology, not soteriology.

 

[OrbisNonSufficit]

It was very significant for this Lutheran in that it confirmed my belief that the real division between Lutheran and Catholic is Ecclesiology, not soteriology.

How similar is Orthodox ecclesiology to Lutheran ecclesiology?

 

[JonNC]

JonNC:

It was very significant for this Lutheran in that it confirmed my belief that the real division between Lutheran and Catholic is Ecclesiology, not soteriology.

How similar is Orthodox ecclesiology to Lutheran ecclesiology?

I can’t speak with great knowledge of EO ecclesiology. I guess I should be more specific that Lutherans reject universal jurisdiction of the Bishop of Rome. I guess in that, EO would probably concur.
It seems to me that solving that issue would lead to a a more unified Church.

 

[Hume]

So I asked people in the forum why are they Christian and the discussion of Protestantism of course came up.

So why are you Protestant(rather than Catholic)?

For the vast majority, they’re protestant for the same reason the vast majority of Catholics are Catholic.

It was the religious environment into which they were born.

 

[annad347]

It was the religious environment into which they were born.

That is so true… I wonder how many people who were born Catholic or Protestant would still be in that church if they weren’t born into that specific church?

 

[annad347]

There are certainly things that differ in approach and not essence. Sadly those are not all. Even if indeed Lutherans and Catholics shared all dogma and were just misunderstanding each other, there are other Protestant denominations with that this don’t.

That is so very true… they have a LONG way to go.

Look at how many years Lutheran’s and Catholic have been talking and they’ve only been able to agree on 1 thing.

Maybe God will give us another 2,000 years. sigh

But I am taking bets (10 bucks to your favorite charity)… The next doctrine Catholics and Lutherans will agree on will be the Sacrament of Eucharist.

 

[OrbisNonSufficit]

But I am taking bets (10 bucks to your favorite charity)… The next doctrine Catholics and Lutherans will agree on will be the Sacrament of Eucharist.

That would be great. Unfortunately that still wouldnt allow any Catholics to commune at Lutheran Churches because Lutherans do not have Apostolic Succession (according to Catholic Church).

 

[Lenten_ashes]

I do believe that a majority of Catholics would not become Catholic if they were not already in the faith. People do not want to be told that they can’t use contraception and divorce and remarry as they please.

 

[JonNC]

Look at how many years Lutheran’s and Catholic have been talking and they’ve only been able to agree on 1 thing.

I would encourage you to investigate the USCCB website on the numerous areas of agreement. I would encourage you to look back at the Roman Confutation where they accept articles of the Augsburg Confession.

The next doctrine Catholics and Lutherans will agree on will be the Sacrament of Eucharist.

In the very basic doctrine of the real presence, they already do agree. And there are Catholic and Lutheran theologians who take it one step further:

1. Catholic and Lutheran Christians together confess the real and true presence of the Lord in the Eucharist. There are differences, however, in theological statements on the mode and therefore duration of the real presence.
2. In order to confess the reality of the eucharistic presence without reserve the Catholic Church teaches that "Christ whole and entire"34 becomes present through the transformation of the whole substance of the bread and the wine into the substance of the body and blood of Christ while the empirically accessible appearances of bread and wine (accidentia) continue to exist unchanged. This “wonderful and singular change” is “most aptly” called transsubstantiation by the Catholic Church.35 This terminology has widely been considered by Lutherans as an attempt rationalistically to explain the mystery of Christ’s presence in the sacrament; further, many suppose also that in this approach the present Lord is not seen as a person and naturalistic misunderstandings become easy.
3. The Lutherans have given expression to the reality of the Eucharistic presence by speaking of presence of Christ’s body and blood in, with and under bread and wine�but not of transsubstantiation. Here they see real analogy to the Lord’s incarnation: as God and man become one in Jesus Christ, Christ’s body and blood, on the one hand, and the bread and wine, on the other, give rise to a sacramental unity. Catholics, in turn, find that this does not do sufficient justice to this very unity and to the force of Christ’s word “This is my body”.
4. The ecumenical discussion has shown that these two positions must no longer be regarded as opposed in a way that leads to separation. The Lutheran tradition agrees with the Catholic tradition that the consecrated elements do not simply remain bread and wine but by the power of the creative Word are bestowed as the body and blood of Christ. In this sense it also could occasionally speak, as does the Greek tradition of a “change”.36 The concept of transsubstantiation for its part is intended as a confession and preservation of the mystery character of the Eucharistic presence; it is not intended as an explanation of how this change occurs37 (see the appendices on “Real Presence” and “Christ’s Presence in the Eucharist”).

 

[JonNC]

That would be great. Unfortunately that still wouldnt allow any Catholics to commune at Lutheran Churches because Lutherans do not have Apostolic Succession (according to Catholic Church).

And Lutherans should not commune at a Catholic mass because there is an expectation of unity even beyond that of the Eucharist.
Pope Benedict spoke about this part of the sad separation we have when he gave a homily at the Lutheran parish in Rome a decade ago.

You’ll understand it if Lutherans state certain knowledge of the validity of their orders and sacraments, and reject the Catholic view on the matter.

 

[OrbisNonSufficit]

You’ll understand it if Lutherans state certain knowledge of the validity of their orders and sacraments, and reject the Catholic view on the matter.

Of course.

And Lutherans should not commune at a Catholic mass because there is an expectation of unity even beyond that of the Eucharist.

Well after all I wouldn’t commune at Orthodox Church despite them having valid Eucharist according to Catholic Church. Unity does need to come first. In all seriousness in my country Evangelicals of Augsburg Confession have very pro-Catholic Bishops at the moment and relations are super good. If that’s the case in other countries that may be key.

 

[JonNC]

Well after all I wouldn’t commune at Orthodox Church despite them having valid Eucharist according to Catholic Church. Unity does need to come first.

Exactly.

In all seriousness in my country Evangelicals of Augsburg Confession have very pro-Catholic Bishops at the moment and relations are super good. If that’s the case in other countries that may be key.

It is extremely important, and I think Pope Benedict was such a critical and positive catalyst in this.

 

[Padres1969]

Perfect, no. There’s no such thing. But I did find one to me, especially present day, exhibits far less of the hypocrisies, inconsistencies and fallacies. And it’s the most welcoming tradition I’ve encountered.

 

[charsan]

So why are you Protestant(rather than Catholic)?

I really don’t consider myself Protestant and I am still in a Liturgical Church. There is only one area I disagree with the Catholic Church on but I can not say which in open forum without getting in trouble.

 

[quinny]

Those who say ‘Lord, Lord!’ also proclaim that they preached in His Name, healed in His Name, prophesied in His Name, and did miracles in His Name. So extraordinary signs and wonders and purpose for Christ can exist, but even that doesn’t guarantee salvation. “Only he who does the will of My Father shall be saved.” I believe that people can be visited by God’s power, initiate supernatural events, proclaim and preach Jesus and do things in Jesus’ Name, but still not be found worthy due to unforgiveness, sins, lack of repentance, lack of dedication, disobedience, idolatry. In other words, it’s not deeds and outward displays of religion that save, but inner belief and obedience and internal religion that saves; just as it is not simply believing alone that Jesus existed and He rose from the grave saves outside of a life showing the fruits of a Christ-centered life and the career of mercy and forgiveness and seeking truth. Example - Judas Iscariot, one of the disciples and one of the ones who marvelled that he’d healed the sick and the demons obeyed his commands. We should reflect regularly on this.