WHY are you NOT a Catholic?

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So you do believe in magic(k), then? And you take issue with the disapproval of the use of it? I’m not really sure what you’re saying, but if as an atheist you believe in magic(k) that would be quite unusual.
 
Where did you get the commentary for Hebrews 6 ?

When a person reviews commentaries . that one depicting a catholic version is not available.

Your commentary “appears” to be out if context. Used just to prove your point of view.
 
I’m the OP [73 with tri focals and two finger typist
,
MEANT SEARCHING

Hope that clarifies it for you:smiley:

God Bless you,
Patrick
 
http://haydock1859.tripod.com/id250.html
EDITED TO FIT one Post SPACE by PJM

Ver. 4. *8 &c. it is impossible,[1] &c. This is an obscure place, differently expounded, which shows how rash it is for the ignorant to pretend to understand the holy Scriptures. Many understand these words, it is impossible, &c. of the sacrament of penance, or of returning to God by a profitable repentance, especially after such heinous sins as an apostacy from the true faith. But then we must take the word impossible, to imply no more than a thing that is very hard to be done, or that seldom happens … it is certain that it is never impossible for the greatest sinners to repent by the assistance which God offers them, who has also left the power to his ministers to forgive in his name the greatest sins.

But others … . For baptism in the first ages was called the sacrament of illumination. See St. Denis de cælesti Hierar. chap. iv.; St. Gregory of Nazianzus; &c. The following words also agree with baptism, when they are said to have been made partakers of the Holy Ghost; to have tasted the good word of God, and the powers of the world to come; all which signify the interior graces, the miraculous gifts, and power of working miracles, which they who were baptized frequently received in those days. —

They cannot be renewed again unto penance. That is, they cannot be renewed again by baptism, which is also called a renovation. (Titus iii. 5.) Their sins may indeed be forgiven them in the sacrament of penance, but this is not a renovation like that in baptism, in which both the guilt, and all pain due to past sins, is remitted; whereas in the sacrament of penance, though the guilt, and the eternal punishments due to sins be remitted, yet many times, temporal punishments, to be undergone either in this world or the next, still remain due to such as have been great sinners,

to them who by relapsing into the same sins, have crucified again to themselves the Son of God, making a mockery of him; i.e. who, insensible of the favours received, have ungratefully renewed sin; to take away which Christ suffered, was mocked, crucified, &c. (Witham) — … ,versions, which are stained more or less by the preconceived sentiments of the translators. — For the earth that drinketh in the rain, &c. He bringeth this comparison, to give them a horror of abusing God’s graces and favours, and of making themselves guilty of hell fire. (Witham)
PLEASE SEE THE SITE FOR FULL DETAILS

GBY
 
As the OP, I assure you [I co-taught RCIA for 3 years] I LOVE New Catholics and anyone interested in learning GOD’s Truths:smiley:

God Bless you, PLEASE stick around and let me know if I can answer any questions for YOU,

Patrick
 
Dear friend in Christ,

HOW can it be that Christ is not calling you [everyone] to his logically, morally and theologically singular truths per defined issue?

I do not mean this as a challenge to your faith directly; but as a prompt [GOD WILLING] to ask how can their more than a single truth per define d issue?

The Bible clearly teaches:

One true God

Who can and does therefore does have just One true Faith set

In and through just His One Founded 2,000 years ago Church, so that every reference to “church” in the bible is referencing today’s RCC" Mt 16:18 “MY Church” is notably singular.

And sense ALL churches are identified by their freely chosen set of faith beliefs; one can know that the bible then articulates Catholic Faith beliefs.

God Bless you,

Prahy very much
Patrick
 
=“gazelam, post:80, topic:454880”]
Several reasons…

Infant baptism

inherited sin

praying in the name of the Father, Son, and Holy Spirit, instead of in the name of Jesus Christ only

belief in creation ex-nihilo

the doctrine of the Trinity

choice of bread or wine at communion

no apostles or prophets

… to name a few reasons
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Thanks for sharing!

Allow me as SPACE permits to try at least to respond to your concerns
Several reasons…

1. Infant baptism

John 3:5 & Mt 28:19

[5] Jesus answered, "Truly, truly, I say to you, unless [EVERY] one is born of water and the Spirit, he cannot enter the kingdom of God

[19] Go therefore and make disciples of all nations, baptizing [ALL OF] them in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit

BOTH passages do not limit or exclude infants. Were that God’s intent, surely it would have been clearly stated, as Sacramental Baptism is the first and essential step to salvation.

2. inherited sin
As space is severely restricted PLEASE REREAD Genesis Chpt 2: 21-24 & all of chpt 3; especially 11-23; then NOTE please that the punishments inflicted by a JST God extended all of humanity for all time. Then note that the reasons for tese punishments flow directly & exclusively from Their ORIGINIAL SIN, which too is inherited by ALL humanity, who like A & E are created in GOD”S very Image Gen 1: 26-27
  1. praying in the name of the Father, Son, and Holy Spirit, instead of in the name of Jesus Christ only
This is grounded in 2 facts:
Mt 16:19 ABOVE & the fact that GOD is a TRINITY:

Lk 3: 21-22 “Now it came to pass, when all the people were baptized, that JESUS [GOD THE SON] also being baptized and praying, heaven was opened; And the HOLY GHOST [GOD THE HS] descended in a bodily shape, as a dove upon him; and a voice came from heaven: Thou art my beloved Son; [GOD THE FATHER] in thee I am well pleased”
  1. belief in creation ex-nihilo
    OK, so where did the “something come from”… are you suggesting GOD is not ALL Powerful” The size and complexity of the Universe and humanity itself, with the Natural and Moral Laws lend POERFUL evidence of otherwise. For example Read gen 1:26-27 & compare it to John 4: 23-24 & explain HOW & Why that is possible [I do know the answers]
5. the doctrine of the Trinity
See #3 & Isa.55: 8 to 9 “For my thoughts are not your thoughts, neither are your ways my ways, says the LORD. For as the heavens are higher than the earth, so are my ways higher than your ways and my thoughts than your thoughts.
Thus theology is replete throughout the NT
It is presumptuous my FRIEND to presume that man [any human] can fully and logically understand the MIND of GOD.

due to limited space relies 6,7 & 8 are on the NEXT POST
 
HERE ARE MY RELIES TO POINTS 6, 7 & 8

6. choice of bread or wine at communion
I’m not exactly sure of your concern here: The Catholic Dogma of the Real Presence: is Testified too by 5 different NT Authors [all Catholic]
Mt. 26: 26-28
Mk. 14: 22-24
Lk 22: 17:20
John 6: 47-58
1st Cor. 11:23-30

ALL of whom BOTH Bread and Wine. BUT the power of the KEYS in Mt 16:18-19 grants BROAD powers of unlimited Governance and specifically the RIGHT to make & void rules and regulations [practices]… the CHURCH choose to discontinue the mandated use of both Consecrated Bread & Wine due to abuses; the POST Vatican II Church then opted to reinstate the OPTIONAL practice of BOTH Form; BUT HOLDING that “THE ENIRE CHRIST; BODY, BLOOD, SOUL & DIVINTY, ARE CONTAINED IN BOTH [EITHER] SPECIES AND EVEY PART OF EACH SPECIS.

7. no apostles or prophets
Friend I have NOT the slightest idea what you mean here. The RCC Has direct Apostolic- succession. There is NO Christ COMMAND for either Apostles or Prophets in the NT, so I fail to see your concern?
  1. So my friend, what ELSE concerns you?
    God Bless, Patrick
 
“PJM said:
=“gazelam, post:80, topic:454880”]
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6.1. choice of bread or wine at communion
I’m not exactly sure of your concern here: The Catholic Dogma of the Real Presence: is Testified too by 5 different NT Authors [all Catholic]
Mt. 26: 26-28
Mk. 14: 22-24
Lk 22: 17:20
John 6: 47-58
1st Cor. 11:23-30

ALL of whom BOTH Bread and Wine. BUT the power of the KEYS in Mt 16:18-19 grants BROAD powers of unlimited Governance and specifically the RIGHT to make & void rules and regulations [practices]… the CHURCH choose to discontinue the mandated use of both Consecrated Bread & Wine due to abuses; the POST Vatican II Church then opted to reinstate the OPTIONAL practice of BOTH Form; BUT HOLDING that “THE ENIRE CHRIST; BODY, BLOOD, SOUL & DIVINTY, ARE CONTAINED IN BOTH [EITHER] SPECIES AND EVEY PART OF EACH SPECIS.

7 no apostles or prophets
Friend I have NOT the slightest idea what you mean here. The RCC Has direct Apostolic- succession. There is NO Christ COMMAND for either Apostles or Prophets in the NT, so I fail to see your concern?

8… to name a few reasons
So my friend, what ELSE concerns you?

God Bless, Patrick
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PJM said:
Dear friend in Christ,

HOW can it be that Christ is not calling you [everyone] to his logically, morally and theologically singular truths per defined issue?

I do not mean this as a challenge to your faith directly; but as a prompt [GOD WILLING] to ask how can their more than a single truth per define d issue?

The Bible clearly teaches:

One true God

Who can and does therefore does have just One true Faith set

In and through just His One Founded 2,000 years ago Church, so that every reference to “church” in the bible is referencing today’s RCC" Mt 16:18 “MY Church” is notably singular.

And sense ALL churches are identified by their freely chosen set of faith beliefs; one can know that the bible then articulates Catholic Faith beliefs.

God Bless you,

Prahy very much
Patrick
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I believe Christ is calling everyone to his logically, morally and theologically singular truths per defined issue, as you have often phrased it.

However, I disagree that the RCC has a monopoly on that truth.

Please don’t take that now to mean I hate your church, far from it. Have you read any of the headlines in the news as it pertains to the Church? The CC is in a lot of turmoil. Now is not the time for Catholics to bury their head in the sand. There seems to be a defining chapter unfolding.

Thank you for finally clarifying that "searing " meant searching. Now your statement makes some sense.
 
The doctrine of Sola Scriptura contradicts itself because it presupposes what scripture is; those books inspired by God that belong to the Bible. But if the Bible is the only source of Christian truth then we couldn’t have such knowledge because the Bible never tells us which books are inspired. If sola scriptura (solely scripture) were true, then we couldn’t know what scripture is. Do you see how it is self-refuting? Even if the bible did give us a list of inspired books and we believed they are inspired and accepted them; we couldn’t accept that list for we would be guilty of circular reasoning. For example, why do you believe the biblical books are inspired? Because they say that they are inspired! Well, why do you believe them when they say that? Because they are inspired! See it is Sola Scriptura is simply nonsense circular reasoning. The only way to see the Bible as being inspired by God without circular reasoning is by the infallible church which Christ has founded, the Church tells us which books are inspired.

So why believe in a doctrine that can’t even handle common sense?
 
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PJM said:
  1. Infant baptism
John 3:5 & Mt 28:19

[5] Jesus answered, "Truly, truly, I say to you, unless [EVERY] one is born of water and the Spirit, he cannot enter the kingdom of God

[19] Go therefore and make disciples of all nations, baptizing [ALL OF] them in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit

BOTH passages do not limit or exclude infants. Were that God’s intent, surely it would have been clearly stated, as Sacramental Baptism is the first and essential step to salvation.
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In addition to these passages, there are two passages in Acts that describe baptisms. First, Acts 10: 24 - 48 describes how Cornelius and his relatives and friends were baptized. In Acts, 16: 25 -34 shows that the jailer and his entire household were baptized. It could be assumed that these entire families were baptized and that this would include children.

The Church Fathers also testifiy to the baptism of infants: “The Church received from the Apostles the tradition of giving Baptism to infants.” (Commentaries on Romans 5,9 AD 244)
St. Cyprian of Carthage: "As to what pertains of infants: you said that they ought not to baptized with the second or third day after their birth, and that the old law of circumcision must be taken into consideration, and that you did not think that one should be baptized and sanctified with the eighth day after his birth. In our council it seemed to us far otherwise. (Letter of Cyprian and of his Colleagues in Council to the number of Sixty-Six; To Fidus [64 (59), 2] AD 251/252) Please note here that the dispute is WHEN the infant should be baptized not IF he should be baptized.
 
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The first quote from the Church Fathers was from Origen. I must have accidently pressed the reply button. Sorry for any confusion.
 
I’m not a Protestant or non-Christian, so I guess my answer is a little different.

The short answer is I am not significantly convinced by any of the arguments for Petrine primacy. I’m not anti-papal or particularly prejudiced against it (I have generally warm feelings toward both living Roman Popes), but I also don’t think of it as necessary or nearly as clear as Catholic apologists believe.

The longer answer is that the Catholic Church considers me in good enough standing that I could inter-commune anyway, so I don’t feel particularly compelled to make any kind jurisdictional leap. (I haven’t and don’t commune in the Catholic Church.) My own view of the RCC and the sui juris churches is basically a reciprocation of what the catechism says about us.

But if I did feel like switching, the canonical issues are enough to give me pause, including the practical concern that my children would be moving from practicing in a Rite that has allowed them to commune since their baptism/chrismation to one where they would either have to stand out as the only children in the parish of their age who could commune or stop.
 
MY friend, I enjoyed your post, BUT am lost by your closing statement.

We believe in the bible because it is GOD Inspired so their is no need for “common sense”; when FAITH does just fine.

God Bless you
Patrick
 
REALLY liked your reply.😀

I usually don’t go that far because if they can’t accept the passages I shared; then its between them & God.

I’m grateful you added them,

God Bless you,
Patrick
 
First THANKS for your POST [I’m the OP]

Secondly thanks for not receiving Catholic Holy Communion.

If [???] I’m reading you correctly you don’t grasp, or accept the Catholic Dogma of the “Real Presence”

FROM OUR Catechism:
1324 The Eucharist is “the source and summit of the Christian life.” “The other sacraments, and indeed all ecclesiastical ministries and works of the apostolate, are bound up with the Eucharist and are oriented toward it. For in the blessed Eucharist is contained the whole spiritual good of the Church, namely Christ himself, our Pasch.” [Sacrifice]

1407 The Eucharist is the heart and the summit of the Church’s life, for in it Christ associates his Church and all her members with his sacrifice of praise and thanksgiving offered once for all on the cross to his Father; by this sacrifice he pours out the graces of salvation on his Body which is the Church

5 separate authors of the NT [All CATHOLICS BTW ] Testify to the the TRUTH of this reality that Jesus HIMSELF [GOD] is "really, Truly & Substantially Present in Catholic Holy Communion which is BOTH a Miracle & a Mystery.

2Peter 1: 19-21
And we have the more firm prophetical word: whereunto you do well to attend, as to a light that shineth in a dark place, until the day dawn, and the day star arise in your hearts: Understanding this first, that no prophecy of scripture is made by private interpretation. For prophecy came not by the will of man at any time: but the holy men of God spoke, inspired by the Holy Ghost.

Mt. 26: 26-28
Mk. 14: 22-24
Lk 22: 17:20
John Chapter 6 [all of it] but read verses 47 to the end of the chapter in particular; knowing that a literal translation is required for all of these references
Paul: 1st Cor. 11:23-30 READ it very carefully please

To date you and your & your kids have been receiving ONLY a sign, a symbol & an image of Christ, NOT Jesus HIMSELF, which you and THEY could receive with conversions to Catholicism…That dear friend is HUGE and the #1 reason to BE a Catholic.

You’re doing good in teaching your kids about Jesus!

God Bless and guide you,
Patrick
 
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You are not reading me correctly.

We’re Orthodox.
"1399 The Eastern churches that are not in full communion with the Catholic Church celebrate the Eucharist with great love. “These Churches, although separated from us, yet possess true sacraments, above all - by apostolic succession - the priesthood and the Eucharist, whereby they are still joined to us in closest intimacy.” A certain communion in sacris, and so in the Eucharist, "given suitable circumstances and the approval of Church authority, is not merely possible but is encouraged.
Blockquote
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The RCC considers what we have to be a full Eucharist.
 
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Patrick

Thank you and thank you for your original post. I usually don’t write as much as you did.

I like the Church Fathers. They show the continuity between the Bible teachings and what the Church teaches now.

Blessings
 
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