WHY are you NOT a Catholic?

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Yep, the treatment has come from the “top down” in two different parishes. We’ve gone back and forth across a couple of parishes a couple of times as my wife doesn’t like how I’ve been treated either. We actually talked about leaving again before the school year started this year.

There was a comment about non-Catholics at church a couple of weeks ago. That was it for me…
 
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drac16 said:
It rejects Sola Scriptura
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i find the whole Sola Scriptura thing interesting.

i was in discussion on which church is the right church on twitter and Sola Scriptura kept coming up. I asked them which church has the true Sola Scriptura belief. I mean one church allows gay pastors, another doesn’t allow gay pastors but allows woman pastors and a third allows gay women bishops. which is correct? do we get to pick and choose? what if we pick wrong?

no one could give me a definitive answer except to say they all believe the same thing about the important parts. i said i thought it was all important.
 
If you’re really interested in the details, I’d rather take it up over PM, but here are just a few quick ones.
  1. After RE classes on Wednesdays we have a meal in the basement. We’ve had priests that call out NC’s during the pre-meal prayer (he knows who we are).
  2. Same priest that once he found out you weren’t Catholic you’re no longer in the room. My neighbor and I have had the same experience. I had the same thing happen during pre-baptism class for our youngest. Once the sponsor couple found out I wasn’t Catholic, I may as well not have been in the room. To them, I no longer mattered in the situation.
  3. All the members in my family receive invites and are part of festivals. I am left out.
  4. Anything with names (mailers, mail box, directory) my name was “asterisked” to make sure everyone knew you aren’t Catholic.
 
Tis_Bearself said:
I thought he meant since Protestants and Catholics have a lot in common ("sharing "), then why don’t the Prods become Catholic.
That was just my take
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He is great for starting threads that if one wants to avoid derailing the thread it is impossible to interpret the intention of the thread. Your take makes some sense but I am not sure what the “multiplicity” factor contributes to the sharing. It seems like a passive aggressive appoach to supposed dicussion.
 
I kind of like the idea of just hearing why people choose to not become Catholic, but unfortunately on a forum like this, such a thread quickly turns into an evangelization thread where Catholics try to convince the Protestants otherwise. On the one hand that’s good because it might change someone’s mind; on the other hand it discourages them from posting if they don’t want to get into an apologetics argument.

I find the reasons Protestants give to be enlightening because it’s so opposite to my own view. I see Protestantism as an extremely watered down form of Christianity where much of the stuff that makes my faith rich and wonderful, from the Pope to the statues to the saints to Mother Mary and the Rosary, is just thrown out the window for no good reason. It’s good to get other perspectives besides my own, since obviously these churches must have something attractive about them that I’m missing. Fellowship seems to be one big thing.
 
The last thing I’m doing is making excuses. In 14 years of putting up with different occurrences, I’m just at the point where I’m done. I don’t know why giving me an asterisk in the parish directory book would keep me from getting mailers, or an asterisk on the family mailbox…

Yes, I understand that only Catholics can participate in some things, and if one of those things is the parish festival(s) and general parish life, then again, that’s a church I don’t think I need to be a part of. I find that strange to be honest…they don’t want the father/husband of their members participating in the life of the parish.
 
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Hi Brent, thanks for the reply to my OPQ [question]
OK, let’s discuss your concerns.

Allow me ask a question for the sake of clarification. You indicate that you agree the bible is Inspired, what is your thought of bible interpretation? Who can do it ALSO Inspired by the HS?

The issue we Catholics have with Sola Scriptura is that it is neither historical [meaning dating back to Apostolic times], nor then is it logical. HERE’S WHY
The bible was fully authored by the end of the 1st Century, and assembled with the 73 book Canon in the early 4th Century. So there was a period of a few hundred YEARS that the early Church; under SEVERE persecution, [the Catholic Church] existed and grew based on HS Inspiration of the Apostles WORD of MOUTH teachings, and subsequent Catholic Teachers, as well as the occasional “written & passed on bible” teachings.

The Bibles OT books were chosen by the Early Catholic Fathers, and the ENTIRE NT is authored by the Early Catholic Fathers.

Not only is this historically provable, but logically the rate of literacy at the time as well as the rarity and extremely cost of writing material made bible-book distribution a severe and costly hardship.

As for Sola Fide; that is not biblical. It was an innovation of Martin Luther [an Apostate Catholic priest] who choose to invent his very own religion some 1,500 years after Christ Founded [singular, Mt 16:18] today’s RCC.

James 2:14-20 from the INSPIRED Bible

“What shall it profit, my brethren, if a man say he hath faith, but hath not works? Shall faith be able to save him? And if a brother or sister be naked, and want daily food:And one of you say to them: Go in peace, be ye warmed and filled; yet give them not those things that are necessary for the body, what shall it profit? So faith also, if it have not works, is dead in itself. But some man will say: Thou hast faith, and I have works: shew me thy faith without works; and I will shew thee, by works, my faith. Thou believest that there is one God. Thou dost well: the devils also believe and tremble. But wilt thou know, O vain man, that faith without works is dead?

The RCC does NOT belief that we “can” work our way into heaven. Rather we teach that WORKS =CHARITY, which is a Godly expectation in order to attain heaven.

The position you hold that Christ HAS already “done it all” [‘Subsatory Salvation”] is another invention of the post-reformation. NOT what Christ wants, expected or with ANY degree of certainty is willing to accept. [That is of course between you & God]

God Bless you,
Patrick [PJM]
 
When I am confronted with the charge of Catholic-Idol worship, I try to shear the following,

I point out that YAHWEH [GOD] Himself COMMANDED Moses to make IDOLS FOR HIM

Exod.25: 18, 20 And you shall make two cherubim of gold; of hammered work shall you make them, on the two ends of the mercy seat. [20] The cherubim shall spread out their wings above, overshadowing the mercy seat with their wings, their faces one to another; toward the mercy seat shall the faces of the cherubim be

Num.21: 8-9 And the LORD said to Moses, “Make a fiery serpent, and set it on a pole; and every one who is bitten, when he sees it, shall live.” So Moses made a bronze serpent, and set it on a pole; and if a serpent bit any man, he would look at the bronze serpent and live.

Some Protestants are in such a hurry to accuse Catholics of Idolatry, that they miss the Lesson God Himself teaches us

It is NOT the object; RATHER the intended use and purpose of that object that determines if it is “a false god”

ANYTHING that can [holds to possibility of] leading one CLOSER to GOD is good; while everything that ACTUALLY competes with GOD is a idol.

We Catholic pray “TO” Mary and the Saints; N=BUT IT IS FAR MORE ACCURATE TO UNDERSTAND THAT what we are doing is praying THROUGH them as ALL PRAYERS are intended to end with GOD.

So WHY do Catholic do this?

It’s termed “intercessory prayer” and what happens is that MAry and or the Saint being prayed THROUGH accepts our petitions. THEN adds there own on top of then AND THEN personally presents them to Jesus on our behald; making our prayers MORE efficacious [effective] …AMEN

God Bless you,
Patrick
 
As a FYI, I do address these issues in another REPLY; I ask that you PLEASE take the time to find it on this string.

Then if you’d like further clarification please let ME [the OP] know

God Bless you
Patrick .
 
Being the OP and a lifetime Catholic, who has belonged to MANY different parishes over the years, I have yet to find one that did not have ladies and men’s organizations that could be participated in… Additionally most if not all have bible studies and other adult Education opportunities for FELLOWSHIP as well as learning more about our Beautiful Catholic Faith that Jesus GAVE US.

Thanks and God Bless you,
Patrick
 
The idea that Purgatory could come from Greek philosophical influence is just silly. Purgatory is a doctrine directly rooted in the soteriological beliefs of the Church and it appears in the different traditions of both the eastern and western Church. Both the western Church and the eastern Church have an idea of “Purgatory”, but our respective theological traditions have different ideas about it. The Latin Church views Purgatory in terms of it being a place for those who still have sins on their soul but God has allowed salvation to; according to this view, those who end up in Purgatory endure a period of suffering where they are made more perfect. After this period of perfection, God allows these souls the beatific vision. The eastern Church (Orthodox and Eastern Catholics) view on Purgatory is a little different, yet both eastern and western doctrines are grounded in our same idea on salvation. For eastern Christians, those who have not attained full Theosis in life must continue this process even in the afterlife, this is why Eastern Catholics prefer to call it the “final Theosis” instead of “Purgatory” because to them it’s not a place of purging for salvation but rather it’s the process of completing salvation. When one completes this process, one finds themselves in full unity with God by his energies. Some eastern Christians go farther than this, extending the possibility that, through the prayers of the Church, God will grant his mercy on even the most wicked and allow them salvation even after death, though this is hopeful speculation.
 
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THANK YOU, I’m the OP

Allow me, as space permits, to address these concerns for you.

By the nature of the Mass I suppose you mean Catholic Beliefs in the Real Presence? Space is restricted here and you have asked multiple questions which I will address briefly. PLEASE let me know if you’d like greater detail on any of the issues

The NT, which is fully authored by Catholics has 5 different authors, 4 of whom gave there very life’s in BELIEF of this Dogma testify to its veracity. [God intervened to save John]

In the past I would copy and pastes these for you, BUT new space limits prohibit such:

Mt. 26: 26-28
Mk. 14: 22-24
Lk 22: 17:20
John 6: entire chapter but quoted here for space is verses 47:58

And Paul: 1st Cor. 11: 23-30; all of which are to be literally understood.

Did the Early Church know & accept these beliefs: At the time the bible was authored this “Mass” [a recent theological term] was called “THE BREAKING OF THE BREAD: Acts.2:42 “And they devoted themselves to the apostles’ teaching and fellowship, to the breaking of bread and the prayers”

Just as “The Way” morphed into Christians, & then Catholics around 110 AD, so to “Breaking of the Bread” became “The Mass”

This may come as a SHOCK to you; but all of Christianity which flows through the RCC which was the ONLY Christian Church, for the 1st 500 years, and realistically until the GREAT Eastern Schism of 1054, making it about 1,500 years OLDER than all Reformation churches and faiths. So without the RCC there would have been no Eastern Churches and no Protestant churches.

So the VERY foundation for all Christianity rest upon the belief in the Real Presence.
Catholic Catechism:

1324 The Eucharist is “the source and summit of the Christian life.” “The other sacraments, and indeed all ecclesiastical ministries and works of the apostolate, are bound up with the Eucharist and are oriented toward it. For in the blessed Eucharist is contained the whole spiritual good of the Church, namely Christ himself, our Pasch.” [Sacrifice]

1407 The Eucharist is the heart and the summit of the Church’s life, for in it Christ associates his Church and all her members with his sacrifice of praise and thanksgiving offered once for all on the cross to his Father; by this sacrifice he pours out the graces of salvation on his Body which is the Church [singular …Mt 16:18]

By “Baptism Regeneration” I take it to mean the effects of Sacramental Baptism, which are many; but 2 of which is forgiveness of ALL sins and the debt all sins acquire; and becoming a marked Soul for Christ.

The post Reformation invention by Luther of Subsatory Salvation [Faith ALONE] denies of fails to comprehend the very natures of God & Sin, which makes that an impossibility. In effect dictating to God how he MUST save you YOUR way, rather than His.

I have responded to “intercessory prayer” on 2 different replies on this STRING. Please look for them and let me know if further information is needed.

SORRY about the briefness but space is inadequate for a fuller explaination.

God Bless you,
Patrick
 
Tis_Bearself said:
I see Protestantism as an extremely watered down form of Christianity where much of the stuff that makes my faith rich and wonderful, from the Pope to the statues to the saints to Mother Mary and the Rosary, is just thrown out the window for no good reason. It’s good to get other perspectives besides my own, since obviously these churches must have something attractive about them that I’m missing. Fellowship seems to be one big thing.
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Let’s start with the fact that there is no such thing a Protestantism, at least in the sense that they share a common theology.
So, not all “throw out” the Blessed Virgin, the saints, the sacraments , etc.
if you are looking for what is attractive, you have to look at each tradition, individually. Lutherans are not the same as Baptists who are not the same as Presbyterians.
Lutherans have an incredible musical culture, along with a well defined doctrine. Anglicans hold a wonderful dedication to the liturgy. Just examples.
 
I’m familiar with quite a few Protestant sects as my husband is Presbyterian, my extended family contains Baptists, some Methodists and non-denominational Christian churches, and I have spent a good bit of time in England where the Anglicans are prevalent. My cousin and her husband were Quakers for a while. I don’t know much about Lutherans as I don’t happen to have any in my family or among my friends.

From where I sit, all the Protestant churches seem to have eliminated something. Anglicans kept the most, but of course they don’t have the Pope and seem to lack the Mary devotions though they have some. The Baptists and Presbyterians seem to involve only sermons, Bible studies, and nice choirs. No saints, no Mary, no statues.
 
Not really applicable to me, as I am Catholic, but as someone on the inside looking out at non-Catholics, but at the same time observing my own surrounds in the Church, my conclusions is the reason is “other Catholics.” I have been through all through all the different stages of being Catholic, the “I go because my parents make me.” and “My friends are at CCD so I need to go.” and to crying my eyes out during adoration feeling God’s love present in the Eucharist. I’ve even tried the religious life briefly. But one thing I could never reconcile or justify to others…why are other Catholics so “tone deaf” to others. It’s not everyone, but as a congregation, it’s hard to not see. We have those who pass judgement, we have the charismatics who have cross the line to become zealots and not know it, you have the “buffet Catholics” who pick and choose what they like and ignore, or worse, disrespect the rest, and you have the indifferent who can care less about what happens around them.

The Catholic “faith” is rich and full of love and hope. The Catholic “society”, on the other hand, is what’s slowly causing the deterioration of the foundation. As a previous spiritual advisor once told me…“hate the sin, not the sinner”

P.S. Just to be clear, when I say “society”, I don’t necessarily mean the clergy. Although, I have known a few priests who can take some pointers on shepherding.
 
Probably not, we’ve really exhausted both opinions, and after what the priest said about Non-Catholics a few weeks ago, I told her that I’m done trying. My neighbor across the street is in the same situation as I and we talk a lot abbout it. He’s done teyi by with that place too.

Basically the wife and kids are staying where they are due to how close the church is to our house, that’s about it. She does not like how they view and treat non-Catholics at all, but she doesn’t have options really. I don’t say we as this church doesn’t reallyg see us as we, they rejected marrying us 14 years ago because…I’m not Catholic.

She may try switching to a country parish outside of town (we’ve left before) as the church in town has now changed from standard CCD on Wed to family faith formation and it’s taking a tole on my wife since all the religious education is falling on her now (since they really don’t want us non-Catholics involved unless we’re looking at conversion).
 
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upant said:
no one could give me a definitive answer except to say they all believe the same thing about the important parts. i said i thought it was all important.
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Ask them for a list…either an essential or a non-essential list. As far as I can tell there is no list, because they cannot agree on that either.
 
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